Should the government be in the business of business?

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Consider This from NPR

Episode: Should the government be in the business of business?
Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Scott Detrow

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Brief Overview

This episode examines President Trump’s unprecedented move to secure a 10% government ownership stake in Intel, America’s leading semiconductor manufacturer. The NPR team explores the implications of this policy shift, which extends into other major companies, and asks: Should the US government be directly involved as a shareholder in private enterprise? Scott Detrow interviews Michael Strain, Director of Economic Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, to explore the risks and potential consequences of this approach.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Intel Deal and Government Intervention

• Genesis of the Deal:

  • Trump publicly demanded the resignation of Intel’s CEO before meeting with him and ultimately proposing US government ownership in Intel.
  • Quote – Donald Trump:

    “You know what? I think the United States should be given 10% of Intel. And [the CEO] said, I would consider that.” (00:31)

  • A subsequent deal was struck: billions in government grants in exchange for over 430 million Intel shares (00:41).

• Significance & Political Tension:

  • Government stake in a private company is rare—especially by a Republican president.
  • Republicans like Senator Thom Tillis publicly questioned the ideological consistency:
    • Quote – Sen. Thom Tillis:

      “You're going to have to explain to me how this reconciles with true conservatism and true free market capitalism. I don't see it.” (00:58)

2. Expanding Government Influence in Business

• Trump engineered similar interventions, such as acquiring a “golden share” in U.S. Steel, conferring veto powers and major sway in corporate decisions (01:35).
  • Quote – Donald Trump:

    “That gives you total control. It's 51% ownership by Americans.” (01:40)

• Potential plans to take stakes in defense contractors like Lockheed Martin are being floated (01:55).

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3. Historical Context and Unprecedented Nature

• Comparison to Past Interventions:
  • In the 2008 financial crisis, the government acquired stakes in automakers—but these were crisis-driven and temporary.
  • Michael Strain:

    “This is an unprecedented action by the US Government outside of a crisis situation. ... Taking an ownership stake is really just about the most aggressive way the government could provide that support.” (03:55)

4. Risks for Intel, the Market, and Taxpayers

• Distortion of Business Decisions:
  • Strain argues government ownership would pressure Intel to avoid unpopular but necessary actions (like layoffs or closures), potentially sacrificing business efficiency.
    • Quote – Michael Strain:

      “Now that the government owns 10% of Intel, the government may pressure intel not to do politically unpopular things.” (04:40)

    • Scott Detrow elaborates on political interference, particularly in swing states (05:07).
• Competition Concerns:
  • Other firms may feel compelled to purchase from Intel due to the government’s stake, stifling fair competition (05:14).
• Taxpayer Cost:
  • Strain rejects the notion that government equity is better for taxpayers than subsidies:
    • Quote – Michael Strain:

      “This is gonna be bad for the taxpayer. ... More good taxpayer dollars will be chasing bad investments in Intel.” (07:09)

  • Instead, he recommends traditional tools like loans or sector-wide subsidies, not direct ownership.

5. Ideological Divide and Conservative Response

• Conservative Values at Odds:
  • Free-market advocates find themselves increasingly isolated in the GOP.
    • Quote – Michael Strain:

      “It's important for those people to speak out. And ... not a lot of that is happening, and that is troubling.” (08:43)

• The discussion highlights a conservative movement in flux, with many Republicans acquiescing or responding only mildly to Trump’s unprecedented economic interventions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump Proposes Intel Stake:

  “I think the United States should be given 10% of intel. And he said, I would consider that.”
  — Donald Trump (00:31)

• Republican Critique:

  “You're going to have to explain to me how this reconciles with true conservatism and true free market capitalism. I don't see it.”
  — Sen. Thom Tillis (00:58)

• Expert Critique on Precedent:

  "This is an unprecedented action by the US Government outside of a crisis situation.”
  — Michael Strain (03:55)

• On Political Interference:

  “Now that the government owns 10% of intel, the government may pressure intel not to do politically unpopular things.”
  — Michael Strain (04:40)

• On Taxpayer Impact:

  “This is gonna be bad for the taxpayer. ... More good taxpayer dollars will be chasing bad investments in Intel.”
  — Michael Strain (07:09)

• Conservative Reaction:

  “It's important for those people to speak out. And … not a lot of that is happening, and that is troubling.”
  — Michael Strain (08:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-02:15 – Origin of the Intel deal; Trump, Intel CEO, political responses
• 03:20-05:07 – Historical context; expert Michael Strain on free market ideology and concerns about government intervention
• 05:07-06:40 – Challenges for Intel and risk of governmental distortion of business
• 06:40-08:25 – Debate over taxpayer benefit; alternative policy tools
• 08:25-09:17 – Conservative isolation and call to action

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Conclusion

This episode offers a brisk but deeply insightful look at a transformative shift in US economic policy. By focusing on the debate surrounding President Trump’s government interventions in private enterprise, the episode illuminates the risks—political, economic, and ideological—of turning the government into a corporate stakeholder. Guests like Michael Strain articulate forceful arguments against this policy, warning of distortions, inefficiency, and long-term costs to both taxpayers and American capitalism.

For those seeking to understand why government involvement in business stirs such heated debate in Washington, this episode delivers a concise, balanced, and compelling discussion.

Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

The story of how the US government came to own 10% of a major tech company starts as these things often do with the post. President Trump took to Truth Social a few weeks ago to say, quote, the CEO of Intel is highly conflicted and must resign immediately. There is no other solution to this problem. Well, that CEO, Lip Bhutan, paid a visit to the White House.

[Donald Trump]

He came in, he saw me, we talked for a while. I liked him a lot. I thought he was very good.

[Scott Detrow]

And it turned out there was another solution to the problem.

[Donald Trump]

I said, you know what? I think the United States should be given 10% of intel. And he said, I would consider that.

[Scott Detrow]

On Friday, they confirmed they had a deal. Billions of dollars in grants funded by the Chips and Science act and the Defense Department in exchange for 433.3 million shares of Intel. It's unusual for the government to get involved in private enterprise like this, especially for a Republican president. And a few Republicans have been speaking out, like Senator Thom Tillis, the retiring senator from North Carolina on CBS last week after the intel deal was first floated. You're going to have to explain to me how this reconciles with true conservatism and true free market capitalism. I don't see it. This is not the only business intervention of Trump's second term. As part of the government's approval of a sale of U.S. steel to the Japanese company Nippon Steel, the administration negotiated.

[Donald Trump]

What Trump called a golden stock. We have a golden share, which I control.

[Scott Detrow]

This gives the federal government veto powers and major sway in corporate decisions.

[Donald Trump]

That gives you total control. It's 51% ownership by Americans.

[Scott Detrow]

Trump says he wants more deals like the one he just negotiated with Intel. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick told CNBC this week the administration was thinking about stakes in defense companies.

[Podcast Narrator]

I mean, Lockheed Martin makes 97% of their revenue from.

[Donald Trump]

From the US government. They are basically an arm of the US government.

[Scott Detrow]

Consider this. President Trump looks ready to turn the US Into a corporate shareholder. But should the government be in the business of business? From npr, I'm Scott Detrow.

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[Scott Detrow]

It'S consider this from npr. President Trump's move to acquire ownership in intel would have been anathema to conservatives not that long ago. They believed the government should stay out of private enterprise. That intervention was more likely to hurt businesses and taxpayers than helping. Michael Strain is director of Economic Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank which continues to advocate for free market policies. So we invited him on to talk about the risks of Trump's plan to make the government a partial owner of the US Business. What was your first response to this intel deal when you heard about it?

[Michael Strain]

Well, my first response was surprise and concern. This is an unprecedented action by the US Government outside of a crisis situation. And even if you think that intel needs more support from the government, taking an ownership stake is really just about the most aggressive way the government could provide that support.

[Scott Detrow]

This is an administration, this is a president that is very comfortable leaning on companies, people, organizations to do what he wants. What are your concerns in terms of two or three or four steps to line about how it could play out in real life? What are your worries? What are you thinking about?

[Michael Strain]

Well, I think this is bad for Intel. Intel is going to have to do a whole lot of things in order to maintain its competitiveness. And some of those things are going to be politically unpopular, like closing factories, laying off workers. You know, now that the government owns 10% of intel, the government may pressure intel not to do politically unpopular things.

[Scott Detrow]

Like, hey, we have to close a plant in this swing state for a financial reason, but now we might not do that because we're being told not to.

[Michael Strain]

Yeah, exactly. And so that's going to be bad for Intel. I think this is going to be bad for customers in the chip market in general. You know, if you're a business and you're taking government contracts, are you going to feel like you have to buy from intel even if buying from intel doesn't make the most business sense for you?

[Scott Detrow]

You said earlier, outside of a crisis, this has happened before in different ways. I mean, I think the most prominent example is the 2008 financial crisis. Shortly after that, the Obama administration took a Major short term stake in U.S. automakers, the auto industry especially. You could argue that worked out pretty well for the companies, for the markets. How different to you is this?

[Michael Strain]

Well, I think it's quite different. Those were policies that were enacted during a crisis, and those were policies that were designed to be temporary. We are not in a crisis right now. And the equity stake in intel and the possibility of future equity stakes are not designed to be temporary. You know, if you think that intel needs more taxpayer support, then you could extend loans under favorable terms to Intel. You could do greater subsidies to the semiconductor sector more broadly.

[Scott Detrow]

Can I ask you something on that point, though? I want to read you a quote from, from White House economics adviser Kevin Hassett, who said, in the past the federal government has been giving away money lickety split to companies and the taxpayers have received nothing in return. And Senator Bernie Sanders, who I imagine is not one of your favorite members of Congress on policy, but the point is he's not normally a Trump ally. He's made a similar point. Is there an argument there that something like this is better than just a tax break or a subsidy or a bailout?

[Michael Strain]

No, I don't, I don't think so. You know, I think that Mr. Hassett's quote, you know, really does reflect just a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the government in these situations. You know, the government is not one business out in the market competing with other businesses. The job of the government is to advance the prosperity and security of the American people. And that happens when American businesses are doing as well as they can to generate that prosperity. Secondly, this is gonna be bad for the taxpayer. This is gonna cost money. The US Government has already given intel billions of dollars of taxpayer money that could be used to fund hospitals or to reduce the budget deficit or that could just be left in the pockets of the people who earned the money. This relationship is going to mean that, that more good taxpayer dollars will be chasing bad investments in Intel. So even if you agree with Mr. Hassett's frame, which I do not, I think this is still going to be a bad deal for the taxpayer.

[Scott Detrow]

I'm curious, Michael, if it feels kind of lonely at the American Enterprise Institute right now. I mean, this is a Republican president. You have many conservative voices going along with this and either not saying anything or agreeing or protesting in a very mild way. What do you make of this moment as a conservative?

[Michael Strain]

You know, I think it's a difficult moment. I think it's incumbent on people in Washington who genuinely believe in traditional conservative commitments about the importance of free markets, the importance of limited government, the importance of the rule of law. It's important for those people to speak out. And I agree with your characterization that not a lot of that is happening, and that is troubling. But I think it makes it all the more important for people who are who are willing to speak out to do so.

[Scott Detrow]

Michael Strang, director of Economic Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, thank you for talking to us about it.

[Michael Strain]

Thanks so much for having me on.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Conor Donovan and Henry Larson. It was edited by John Ketchum. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. Foreign It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

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[Michael Strain]

My phone just rang.

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What?

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