Sharon Horgan (2:34)

He did die. That's putting it very politely. Thank you. Yeah, it's two years on from that. And, you know, we join the sisters when they are getting on with their lives as best they can. But the sort of aftershock of what happened is still very much with them. Grace is getting married and, yeah, she's found new love.

Mary Louise Kelly (2:58)

She looks so beautiful.

Sharon Horgan (2:58)

She has found new love.

Mary Louise Kelly (3:00)

She's happy. And that you give it like 10 minutes before it all falls apart.

Sharon Horgan (3:04)

Well, that's it. We kind of conclude a group of things to happen that would sort of provide the perfect storm for someone who's so fragile and vulnerable. Anyway, I mean, we left the first season with her sort of jumping into the water, and she's sort of found her freedom and moved on. But like I said, you don't really. And it was a lovely sort of fairy tale ending, but at the same time, life isn't like that. And I'm just delighted we got a chance to go further with this story. It's about this, you know, sisterhood that comes together and sort of battles to protect each other.

Mary Louise Kelly (3:45)

What you just described, the bond among these sisters, it is the organizing force of the show. And yet another thing you do in this new season is introduce the notion that they are quite sure if they can trust each other. At one point, one of the sisters, Bebe, says, I'm thinking things I. I don't want to be thinking about my sister. What was that like to write? Tell me.

Sharon Horgan (4:10)

Well, I mean, it was really interesting, actually. And it was something that when we were mid production on the first season, we realized, you know, could be something kind of tantalizing in a way, the sort of isolation that someone like Grace finds herself in. And so we felt that there was a huge amount of secrets there that we could explore and sort of blow open. But the idea of them sort of questioning Grace and her actions was an act, actually. It was horrible to write and sort of upsetting. And the scene when Grace sort of realizes that that's what they're saying because she has held things too close to her chest and because she hasn't let them in, it just felt like a dangerous but very interesting, deep area to explore.

Mary Louise Kelly (4:57)

You introduce a new character in this season, a nosy, sneaky busybody named Angelica, played by the great Fiona Shaw. What's she bringing to the show?

Sharon Horgan (5:10)

Oh, my God. What isn't she bringing? She is a delight. We're all obsessed with her. You know, I wanted to introduce someone who sort of begins to upturn the apple cart and someone who's just slightly generationally removed and also geographically, she's a Northern Irish woman. And I think, you know, for a woman of her generation at that time in that part of Ireland, it was kind of more difficult to Have a career or to have independence. And she's sort of limited in a lot of ways. And it's very interesting to have a character like that sort of look at the Garveys with their freedom, with their bodies and with their language and sort of think that can't be right. But also someone who's just, like, looking for human connection. So she's a massive contradiction. She's a hurt person who wants to hurt.

Mary Louise Kelly (6:07)

She's just the definition of passive aggression and upping your business. Handing you a chocolate while stabbing you in the back.

Sharon Horgan (6:16)

That's it. Patting you on your head and giving you a biscuit while ruining your life. No, she was an absolute joy. I mean, I can't tell you, there was times when she would do a take and we would just break into applause because we were, you know, so riveted to everything she did. She was an absolute joy.

Mary Louise Kelly (6:36)

It's fair to say this season is really dark. Characters die who I really didn't want to die, but there were moments, many, when I was laughing out loud. There's one where your character, Eva, introduces her menopause coach.

Sharon Horgan (6:53)

How are you blessed to know this family, Eileen? Through Eva, we've been working together on her menopause coach. Menopause coach. Is that real?

Mary Louise Kelly (7:06)

Like, is that a thing? Is that real?

Sharon Horgan (7:08)

People are so obsessed with this. It makes me laugh. You know, a lot of me went into Eva this time round, like myself at that particular time. She starts getting fit. She decides to throw a bit of her disposable income at, like, sorting her hormones out. And I had started, you know, seeing a lady online. Not what I would call a menopause coach, but they do exist. And, you know, I thought, I need to get Eva in this great place for, or at least a place of, you know, improvement and working her life.

Mary Louise Kelly (7:40)

Out and looking after herself.

Sharon Horgan (7:42)

Yeah, exactly. Before I absolutely ruin her life to.

Mary Louise Kelly (7:46)

Give you an excuse to get a trainer in real life, I guess.

Sharon Horgan (7:49)

Well, there you go.

Mary Louise Kelly (7:50)

Preparation. There you go.

Sharon Horgan (7:51)

Yeah.

Mary Louise Kelly (7:52)

Did it feel risky, though, menopause humor? Did you worry whether anyone besides, I don't know me, fellow middle aged woman, whether we would laugh?

Sharon Horgan (8:00)

No, not at all. I didn't really. And in fact, I think if you think too deeply about what specific audience members are gonna be liking or disliking, then you're sort of. You're heading for a fall kind of thing. You have to write what's interesting to you and what you hope is gonna appeal, but at the same time, it just has to always be about the story, and it has to be about the characters.

Mary Louise Kelly (8:24)

That's such good advice for so many things. Like, you can't worry about whether this is gonna be a crowd pleaser or not. If I find this funny, the rest of you should get on board.

Sharon Horgan (8:33)

Well, that's it. You know, I mean, saying that I felt a responsibility because people were so lovely about the first season and particularly women getting in touch and women who've been in those terrible relationships and felt seen. I didn't want to mess it up. Then that's down to me to just work hard to make sure the story goes places that is both unexpected but also truthful, you know, so that's all I can do and then cross my fingers. Cross everything.

Mary Louise Kelly (9:07)

Cross everything. Thank you so much. This has been an absolute delight.

Sharon Horgan (9:12)

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Mary Louise Kelly (9:14)

Sharon Horgan. She is the creator and star of Bad Sisters, which you can find on Apple tv. This episode was produced by Katherine Fink. It was edited by Sarah Handel and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. Thanks to our CONSIDER THIS plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio strong. Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. You can Learn more at plus.NPR.org It's Consider this from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.