The fate of Ukraine hangs in the balance as Trump sides with Russia

Summary

Consider This from NPR: The Fate of Ukraine Hangs in the Balance as Trump Sides with Russia

Release Date: February 20, 2025
Host: Scott Detrow
Contributors: Greg Myhre (Washington), Joanna Kakisis (Kyiv), Retired General Ben Hodges

---

Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Consider This, host Scott Detrow delves into the escalating tensions surrounding Ukraine amidst shifting U.S. political dynamics. The focus centers on President Donald Trump's recent alignment with Russia, contrasting sharply with the longstanding U.S. support for Ukraine in its conflict with Russian forces. This development has significant implications for Ukraine's sovereignty and the broader geopolitical landscape.

---

Trump’s Criticism of Ukraine and Alignment with Russia

Trump's Controversial Remarks

President Trump's recent comments at Mar-a-Lago have sparked controversy by echoing Russian President Vladimir Putin’s narratives. At [00:00], host Scott Detrow notes, "Lately, when President Trump talks about Ukraine and its president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he sounds a lot like Russian President Vladimir Putin."

At [00:09], Greg Myhre highlights Trump's assertion:

"I think I have the power to end this war, and I think it's going very well...you should have ended it. Three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal."

These statements align with Kremlin talking points that falsely claim Ukraine initiated the conflict, despite substantial evidence of Russian aggression over the past three years.

Impact on Support for Ukraine

Trump's remarks have unsettled U.S. and international supporters of Ukraine. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer addressed Trump's comments on the Senate floor, criticizing their similarity to Russian propaganda. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy responded by stating, "Trump is repeating Kremlin talking points...I would like to see more truth from the Trump team because this affects Ukraine and not in a positive way" ([01:30]).

---

Reactions from U.S. Military and Experts

Retired General Ben Hodges' Perspective

At [01:30], retired General Ben Hodges provides a critical view of the U.S. approach to Russia:

"The United States has an embarrassing record of naivety...thinking that they could figure out the Russians and work with them like they were some sort of normal country."

He further emphasizes the persistent threat Russia poses to Ukraine's sovereignty:

"The Russians have not stepped away from their original objective of destroying Ukraine as a state or destroying the idea of Ukraine as a state" ([01:39]).

Greg Myhre on U.S. Military Support

Greg Myhre discusses the current state of U.S. military aid to Ukraine, noting its critical role:

"For the moment, it continues... but it is winding down. And Trump is giving no indication that he'll seek more... without American aid, the Ukrainians will be stretched very thin" ([05:17]).

He underscores the necessity of continued support, particularly in areas like air defense to counter ongoing Russian attacks.

---

Ukraine’s Response and Public Sentiment

Zelenskyy's Diplomatic Stance

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy maintains a composed and diplomatic front despite Trump's criticisms. At [03:55], Joanna Kakisis reports Zelenskyy's remarks:

"...Trump seems to live in a Russian created space of disinformation...blaming Ukraine for the war even as Russia continues to attack the country every night."

Zelenskyy's steadfast position underscores Ukraine's commitment to its sovereignty and democratic values, rejecting narratives that delegitimize its government.

Ukrainian Public Outrage

The Ukrainian populace reacts with disbelief and frustration towards perceived U.S. alignment with Russia. Kakisis shares sentiments from Ukrainians like Olena Tokovenko:

"Trump is acting like he owns Ukraine. Maybe Trump can just tell us who to elect and maybe even offer his own candidate... the feeling that the White House is aligned with Russia is so shocking to Ukrainians" ([05:05]).

This sentiment highlights the deep reliance Ukrainians have placed on Western support to secure their nation's survival and democratic integrity.

---

US Military Support and Future Prospects

Current State of Aid

Despite Trump's antagonistic stance, U.S. military support remains ongoing but is facing uncertainty. As General Hodges explains, the aid "is part of a big package approved last year by the Biden administration... winding down" ([05:17]).

The cessation of new aid initiatives from the Trump administration poses significant challenges for Ukraine, potentially limiting its ability to defend against continued Russian offensives.

---

Ceasefire Negotiations: Stakeholder Objectives

Trump’s Ambitious Ceasefire Agenda

Trump is actively pushing for ceasefire negotiations, aiming to leverage his influence to end the conflict swiftly. Ben Hodges cites Andrew Weiss from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, stating,

"Trump wants this ceasefire, but doesn't seem particularly interested in the details" ([06:37]).

Russian Objectives in Negotiations

Russia seeks an expansive ceasefire that imposes severe restrictions on Ukraine, including:

• Caps on the size of Ukraine's military
• Limits on Western cooperation with Ukraine
• Blocking Ukraine's NATO membership aspirations ([06:54]).

These demands reflect Russia's broader strategy to weaken Ukraine's defense capabilities and prevent its integration into Western alliances.

Ukraine’s Demands for Security Guarantees

Ukraine remains firm on obtaining robust security guarantees to ensure its sovereignty and prevent future invasions. Zelenskyy asserts,

"I will not give up Ukraine's push for NATO membership or its wish to get back territory occupied by Russia and Ukrainians" ([07:10]).

Additionally, Ukraine demands accountability for Russian war crimes, maintaining pressure for justice and reparations.

---

Conclusion

The episode underscores the precarious situation facing Ukraine as geopolitical maneuvers by the U.S. under Trump's administration threaten to undermine the support that has been pivotal over the past three years. With President Trump adopting rhetoric aligned with Russian narratives and signaling a potential reduction in military aid, Ukraine's ability to sustain its defense is at risk. Ceasefire negotiations appear to be influenced more by Trump’s strategic objectives rather than Ukraine’s fundamental needs for security and sovereignty. As the episode concludes, the delicate balance of international support versus political realignment plays a crucial role in determining Ukraine's fate amidst ongoing conflict.

---

Notable Quotes:

• President Trump ([00:09]):

  "I think I have the power to end this war, and I think it's going very well...you should have ended it. Three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal."

• Retired General Ben Hodges ([01:39]):

  "The Russians have not stepped away from their original objective of destroying Ukraine as a state or destroying the idea of Ukraine as a state."

• Olena Tokovenko ([05:05]):

  "Trump is acting like he owns Ukraine. Maybe Trump can just tell us who to elect and maybe even offer his own candidate... the feeling that the White House is aligned with Russia is so shocking to Ukrainians."

• Ukrainian President Zelenskyy ([03:55]):

  "Trump is repeating Kremlin talking points...I would like to see more truth from the Trump team because this affects Ukraine and not in a positive way."

---

This comprehensive summary provides an in-depth overview of the episode, capturing the critical discussions and varying perspectives surrounding the U.S. political stance on Ukraine amidst its conflict with Russia.

Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

Lately, when President Trump talks about Ukraine and its president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he sounds a lot like Russian President Vladimir Putin.

[Greg Myhre]

I think I have the power to end this war, and I think it's going very well. But today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it. Three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.

[Scott Detrow]

That was Trump speaking at Mar a Lago this week, echoing a popular Kremlin talking point, the false assertion that Ukraine started the war with Russia, a war that saw Russian troops pour over Ukraine's border and Russian missiles and drones bombard Ukrainian cities for three years. Trump was referring to a meeting that happened earlier this week. Top U.S. and Russian officials gathered in Saudi Arabia to discuss ending the war. Not included in the meeting, anyone from Ukraine. These comments have shaken supporters of Ukraine and its allies both here and abroad. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer responded to some of Trump's comments on the Senate floor this week. Some of his comments sounded straight from a Russian propaganda playbook. Zelensky responded, too. He spoke through an interpreter to a small group of reporters at the presidential palace in Kyiv on Wednesday morning, saying that while he respected Trump as a leader dream, Trump was living in what Zelenskyy called a circle of Russian disinformation. I would like to see more truth from the Trump team because this affects Ukraine and not in a positive way.

[Greg Myhre]

The United States has an embarrassing record of naivety, of somehow thinking that they could figure out the Russians and work with them like they were some sort of normal country.

[Scott Detrow]

Retired General Ben Hodges was Commanding General of U.S. army Europe from 2014 to 2017. He spoke on NPR's Here and Now.

[Greg Myhre]

All of our allies and friends in Eastern Europe, they are just amazed that we still continue to believe that somehow Russia has good intentions and they just want to be a normal, responsible country. The Russians have not stepped away from their original objective of destroying Ukraine as a state or destroying the idea of Ukraine as a state.

[Scott Detrow]

Consider as the once cold relations between the US And Russia begin to thaw, the fate of Ukraine hangs in the balance. From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. It's considered this from NPR. For the past three years, the U.S. has been Ukraine's leading supporter in its war with Russia. But with a series of stunning moves, President Trump is now sounding more aligned with Russia than with Ukraine. To break this down, we are joined by NPR's Greg Myhre in Washington and Joanna Kakisis in Kyiv. Hey, to both of you.

[Joanna Kakisis]

Hello.

[Ben Hodges]

Hi, Scott.

[Scott Detrow]

Greg, I want to start with you. Trump is publicly attacking Ukraine's president. Why? Why is he doing this?

[Ben Hodges]

Well, Scott, Trump has been critical of Ukraine and Zelensky dating back to his first term. But we've never seen language this harsh. Writing on social media, Trump said, quote, a dictator without elections, Zelensky better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. So in the past week, Trump has also reached out to Russia, which had been isolated under the Biden administration. Trump called Russian leader Vladimir Putin and senior Trump aides met with their Russian counterparts in Saudi Arabia with without Ukraine present. And this all seems to be part of Trump's very aggressive campaign for a ceasefire. And he's going about it by putting very intense public pressure on Ukraine and Zelensky, who are in a vulnerable position on the battlefield.

[Scott Detrow]

Joanna, how are people in Ukraine responding? Specifically, how is Zelensky responding?

[Joanna Kakisis]

So Zelensky has remained calm and he's tried to be diplomatic and he seemed concerned, not angry, when he said yesterday that President Trump seems to live in a Russian created space of disinformation. Trump is repeating Kremlin talking points. He's blaming Ukraine for the war even as Russia continues to attack the country every night. And he's claiming Zelensky is an illegitimate president. And now Ukrainians are, you know, they very much want this war to end, but they've been watching the Trump administration's actions with disbelief. We spoke to several Ukrainians who are outraged by Trump's comments. Olena Tokovenko, she's a 47 year old lawyer, she said Trump is acting like he owns Ukraine. Maybe Trump can just tell us who to elect and maybe even offer his own candidate. Maybe, though, we should not ask Trump but Putin what to do. This would cut out a middleman, right? Because this is Russia's policy. Coming through Trump. The feeling that the White House is aligned with Russia is so shocking to Ukrainians because they have staked their very survival as a country on Western style democracy and liberty, which they believe the US Was a beacon of.

[Scott Detrow]

So Trump is attacking Zelenskyy, echoing Kremlin talking points. Zelenskyy is responding. But Joanna, at the same time, Trump's envoy for Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, is in Kyiv. How is he being received?

[Joanna Kakisis]

Well, Scott, he's here this week, but it's really not clear how much authority he has. And this point seemed to be driven home today when we went to the presidential palace for another press conference, this time with Kellogg and Zelenskyy. But while we were waiting to sit down for this press conference, Zelenskyy's spokesman said it would not happen at the request side.

[Scott Detrow]

Okay, so Greg, what is likely to happen with US Military support for Ukraine? It's billions and billions of dollars.

[Ben Hodges]

So for the moment, it continues. This is part of a big package approved last year by the Biden administration. It's still working its way through the pipeline, but it is winding down. And Trump is giving no indication that he'll seek more. In fact, just the opposite. He says Zelensky's great skill has been to get the US to send him money and suggesting that there won't be more going to Ukraine. Now, the Europeans are helping with their own military assistance, but without American aid, the Ukrainians will be stretched very thin. For example, Ukraine needs regular resupplies of air defense missiles to shoot down these daily and nightly Russian airstrikes.

[Scott Detrow]

Question for both of you. Trump really seems to be in a hurry here to get cease fire negotiations started. What are the various parties? And we're talking Trump in America, Ukraine and Russia. What do they want from these talks? Greg, let me start with you.

[Ben Hodges]

Yeah. I spoke with Andrew Weiss at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington. He says Trump wants this ceasefire, but doesn't seem particularly interested in the details. He said Russia is also interested in a ceasefire, but has very expansive and ambitious aims.

[Scott Detrow]

The Russians are pressing for a big ceasefire, and that ceasefire would include caps on the size of Ukraine's military. It would impose strict limits on Western cooperation with Ukraine, and it would close the door to Ukraine's membership in NATO. Joanna, what about Ukraine?

[Joanna Kakisis]

So, Scott, Ukraine wants very strong security guarantees to protect itself from Russia to avoid more invasions in the future. And Zelensky says he will not give up Ukraine's push for NATO membership or its wish to get back territory occupied by Russia and Ukrainians. They also want Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. But with the Trump administration, all this is up in the air.

[Scott Detrow]

That is NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Keev as well as NPR's Greg Myhrey talking to us from Washington. Thanks to both of you.

[Joanna Kakisis]

You're welcome.

[Ben Hodges]

Thanks, Scott.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Briana Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick, Jaron Wadenon and Nadia Lancy. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

[Joanna Kakisis]

Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music or you can also support NPR's vital journalism. And get consider this plus@ +npr.org that's +npr.org.