Podcast Summary: Consider This from NPR

Episode Title: The U.S. spent billions to rebuild Afghanistan. Was it successful?
Air Date: December 20, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly (with Scott Detrow)
Guest: John Sopko, former Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR)

Overview

This episode of Consider This centers on the recently released final report from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR), an office tasked with monitoring and auditing U.S. spending on Afghanistan’s reconstruction over two decades. Host Mary Louise Kelly speaks in-depth with John Sopko, SIGAR’s last Inspector General, about the scope of the waste, reasons behind it, and whether the U.S. has learned any lessons as similar reconstruction efforts loom in places like Ukraine and Gaza.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Scale and Failure of U.S. Reconstruction in Afghanistan

• Report Highlights:
  • The U.S. spent $144 billion over 20 years on Afghanistan reconstruction.
  • SIGAR estimates $26–29 billion was outright wasted.
  • Sopko’s headline: “The vast majority of it was a failure.”
  • [01:44] John Sopko: “The headline is we spent 20 years in Afghanistan and spent $144 billion on reconstruction, and the vast majority of it was a failure.”
• Concrete Example of Waste:
  • Purchase of 20 non-functional Italian airplanes for $480 million; the planes were immediately unusable.
  • [02:20] John Sopko: “We bought about 20 airplanes from Italy that were in a junkyard in Sicily... The planes couldn’t fly. They basically were trashed almost immediately.”
• Infrastructure Missteps:
  • A USAID-funded $335 million power plant operated at less than 1% of its capacity because "they didn’t need it" and there was "no grid to connect it."
  • Additional waste included "buildings that melted," "roads never completed," and "bridges that fell down."
  • [03:10] John Sopko: "It was a very good power plant. Problem is they didn’t need it… There wasn’t a grid for it to be connected. Those are the type of things we saw."

Why the Waste Happened

• Too Much, Too Fast:
  • Massive influx of funds to a country unprepared to absorb or manage it.
  • Sopko: "The problem wasn’t money. It wasn’t a lack of funds. It was almost the opposite."
  • [03:48] John Sopko: “We were our worst enemy in many ways… just the amount of money funneling in and where the money ended up going.”
• Empowering the Wrong Actors:
  • Money funneled to contractors tied to Afghan warlords—historically unpopular figures—thus alienating ordinary Afghans and undermining U.S. efforts.
  • [04:04] John Sopko: “A lot of the money was going to Afghan contractors who were somehow connected to Afghan warlords... This alienated the average Afghan.”
  • Sopko’s mother’s wisdom: “If you go to bed with dogs, you wake up with fleas.”
• Warning Signs Ignored:
  • Sopko shares that despite repeated red flags raised in reports and Congressional testimony, there was little effect on policy.
  • [06:55] John Sopko: “Basically, it was, ‘Thank you very much, Mr. Sopko, you’re doing a wonderful job… keep up your good work.’ And they just continued pumping the money.”
• Inertia and Reluctance to Admit Failure:
  • Institutional momentum and reluctance to acknowledge fundamental problems kept projects moving despite visible dysfunction.
  • [07:31] John Sopko: "Once you start something like this, there's a tendency to just keep it going... Nobody wants to be the general or the ambassador or the AID administrator who says, well, I think it was a mistake."

Lessons Learned (or Not)

• Bleak Outlook for Future Reconstruction Efforts:
  • Sopko argues that the U.S. government has not internalized the lessons from Afghanistan.
  • He is especially concerned about the diminished oversight capacity if reconstruction happens in Ukraine or Gaza.
  • [08:16] John Sopko: “No. I usually try to be an optimist, but no, I don’t see it. Particularly with the destruction of USAID. You eliminated all oversight, all capability in the government to carry out a reconstruction effort.”
  • Expertise in reconstruction and oversight has been eroded: “The worker bees out in the field… they're gone. They've all taken retirement, have been fired.”
• Lack of Accountability:
  • Failure to learn from past mistakes increases the risk of history repeating itself.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Waste:
  • [02:20] John Sopko: “We bought about 20 airplanes from Italy that were in a junkyard in Sicily... The planes couldn’t fly. They basically were trashed almost immediately.”
• On Structural Problems:
  • [03:48] John Sopko: “We were our worst enemy in many ways… just the amount of money funneling in and where the money ended up going.”
• On Empowering Warlords:
  • [04:04] John Sopko: “If you go to bed with warlords or oligarchs... you end up in the morning having to explain to the average Afghan why you're doing that.”
• On Ignored Warnings:
  • [06:55] John Sopko: “Thank you very much, Mr. Sopko, you’re doing a wonderful job… keep up your good work. And they just continued pumping the money.”
• On Hopelessness for Reform:
  • [08:16] John Sopko: “No. I usually try to be an optimist, but no, I don’t see it.”

Key Timestamps

• [01:44] – Sopko’s summary of the report: $144 billion spent, most of it “a failure.”
• [02:20] – Example of wasted spending: non-functional Italian airplanes.
• [03:10] – Infrastructure example: $335 million unused power plant.
• [03:48] – Analysis of the key problem: money flooding into an unready system.
• [04:04] – Discussion on funding warlords and alienating local Afghans.
• [06:55] – Sopko on his warnings being ignored by policymakers.
• [07:31] – On institutional inertia and reluctance to admit failure.
• [08:16] – Sopko’s pessimistic take on whether lessons have been learned.

Tone and Language

The conversation is frank and direct, with moments of skepticism and frustration regarding wasted resources and unheeded warnings. Sopko employs analogies and colorful language (e.g., “If you go to bed with dogs, you wake up with fleas”) to underscore systemic issues. The mood is reflective, somber, and tinged with pessimism regarding prospects for future U.S.-led reconstruction efforts abroad.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a clear-eyed, unsparing assessment of U.S. nation-building efforts in Afghanistan, drawing on the most comprehensive government audit to date. John Sopko identifies how deep-seated structural flaws, a lack of accountability, and persistent institutional inertia led to massive waste and poor outcomes—while warning that, without meaningful reform and retained expertise, similar future endeavors are likely to repeat these failures.