Trump 2.0 or Project 2025?

Summary

Consider This from NPR: "Trump 2.0 or Project 2025?" – A Comprehensive Summary

Release Date: February 9, 2025

In this insightful episode of NPR's "Consider This," hosts Scott Detrow and Megan Messerly delve into the intricate relationship between former President Donald Trump's current administration and the conservative blueprint known as Project 2025. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, analyses, and conclusions drawn from the episode, providing a detailed overview for listeners and those seeking to understand the unfolding political landscape.

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1. Introduction to Project 2025

Scott Detrow opens the episode by tracing the origins of Project 2025, a substantial 900-plus-page document unveiled in April 2023 by Paul Danz, a conservative political operative. The blueprint outlined a strategic plan for a future conservative presidency, emphasizing policies aimed at dismantling existing governmental structures deemed unfavorable by conservatives.

Scott Detrow [00:00]: "Back in April 2023, without a whole lot of fanfare, a conservative political operative named Paul Danz laid out what was basically a political battle plan."

Project 2025 proposed radical shifts, including the outlawing of mailing abortion pills, the abolition of the Department of Education, and a return to the gold standard. These proposals were perceived by Democrats as potential vulnerabilities for Trump during the 2024 campaign.

2. Democratic Response and Public Perception

The Democratic response was swift and impactful. President Joe Biden publicly condemned Project 2025, highlighting its perceived threats to America's democratic fabric.

Joe Biden [01:00]: "Project 2025 will destroy America. Look it up."

The plan became a prominent talking point, with high-profile figures like Saturday Night Live’s Kenan Thompson parodying its content, further cementing its place in public discourse.

3. Trump's Disavowal and Subsequent Alignment

Despite Trump's initial disavowal of Project 2025 during his campaign, evidence suggests a significant alignment between the blueprint's strategies and his administration's actions post-election. As Detrow notes, policies enacted by Trump mirror those outlined in Project 2025, indicating a possible shift towards the very playbook he once rejected.

Scott Detrow [01:40]: "But now that Trump is in office, releasing his own detailed plans, a lot of them are strikingly similar to the ones laid out in Project 2025."

4. Key Figures Driving the Agenda

A pivotal figure in this transformation is Russell Boat, a chief architect of Project 2025, who has been confirmed to lead the Office of Management and Budget. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has criticized Boat, branding him as the embodiment of Project 2025's agenda.

Scott Detrow [01:40]: "Russell Boat is Project 2025 incarnate."

Megan Messerly from Politico elaborates on Boat's influence, highlighting his role in shaping executive orders that reflect Project 2025's policies across various domains, including social issues, immigration, energy, and the economy.

5. Policy Overlaps and Implementation

Messerly details the extensive overlap between Project 2025 and the Trump administration's executive actions. Key areas of alignment include:

• Social Issues: Initiatives such as promoting school choice, banning diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) programs, and prohibiting transgender individuals from military service.
• Immigration and Government Staffing: Streamlining immigration policies and staffing the administration with individuals aligned with Project 2025's objectives.
• Economic and Foreign Affairs: Implementing conservative economic policies and redefining foreign relations strategies.

Megan Messerly [03:01]: "The category that we've seen overlap between Project 2025 and the President's Orders is in the area of social issues."

6. The Legal Debate: Empowerment Theory

A cornerstone of Project 2025's strategy is the "empowerment theory," which posits that the executive branch possesses discretionary authority to withhold federal funds allocated by Congress. This legal interpretation has led to significant moves, such as the proposed freeze on federal funding, which was swiftly challenged in court.

Megan Messerly [05:13]: "He makes very clear in Project 2025 that he believes that Congress has delegated far too much authority to what he refers to as the fourth branch of government, the administrative state."

This approach aims to limit the influence of career bureaucrats and reduce government intervention, aligning with the conservative ethos of reducing federal oversight.

7. Political Ramifications and Democratic Strategy

While Project 2025 has been a focal point for Democratic opposition during the campaign, its ongoing influence now that Trump is in office presents complex challenges. Democrats continue to reference Project 2025 as a cautionary tale, emphasizing the potential erosion of democratic institutions.

Megan Messerly [07:32]: "The argument that we're hearing from the White House is this idea that, you know, if you look at Project 2025, a lot of these are sort of just long-standing conservative ideas or things that President Trump himself did during his first term."

However, with Trump firmly in power, the Democrats' ability to counteract these policies is limited, leading to a landscape where the Trump administration progresses with its agenda "full steam ahead."

8. Conclusion: Assessing the Future

The episode concludes by reflecting on the profound implications of Project 2025's integration into Trump's administration. As policies rooted in the blueprint take effect, the nation grapples with the balance of power, the role of the executive branch, and the preservation of democratic norms.

Scott Detrow [06:47]: "What is the White House saying right now? Because as we laid out, there was such a clear disavowal of this during the campaign and as you have reported, yet so much of it is actually part of the action plan."

The discussion underscores the ongoing tension between established political frameworks and emerging conservative strategies, posing critical questions about the future trajectory of American governance.

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Notable Quotes and Attributions:

• Scott Detrow [00:00]: Introduction to Project 2025.
• Joe Biden [01:00]: Critique of Project 2025.
• Megan Messerly [03:01]: Overview of policy overlaps.
• Megan Messerly [05:13]: Explanation of the empowerment theory.
• Megan Messerly [07:32]: Democratic perspective on Project 2025.
• Scott Detrow [06:47]: Inquiry into the White House's current stance.

This episode of "Consider This" offers a thorough examination of how Project 2025 has transitioned from a campaign-era critique to a tangible influence shaping the Trump administration's policies. Through expert analysis and direct quotes, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the strategies, legal battles, and political dynamics at play in current American politics.

Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

Back in April 2023, without a whole lot of fanfare, a conservative political operative named Paul Danz laid out what was basically a political battle plan. What we're doing is systematically preparing to march into office and bring a new.

[Megan Messerly]

Army of aligned, trained, and essentially weaponized.

[Scott Detrow]

Conservatives ready to do battle against the deep state. It was called Project 2025, a 900 plus page blueprint for a future conservative president. Because it's worth flagging that at this point, President Trump had not yet locked down the Republican nomination to hit the ground running on day one. It outlined a suite of very conservative policies that would, for example, outlaw the mailing of abortion pills and abolish the Department of Education. It even suggests a return to the gold standard. Democrats saw this as a vulnerability for Trump in the 2024 campaign. And so we saw social media videos like this one from the then president and then candidate, Joe Biden.

[Joe Biden]

Project 2025 will destroy America. Look it up.

[Scott Detrow]

We saw Saturday Night Live's Kenan Thompson on stage at the Democratic National Convention, holding up a giant bound copy of the plan.

[Megan Messerly]

You ever seen a document that could kill a small animal and democracy at the same time? Here it is.

[Scott Detrow]

After the plan became a Democratic talking point, Trump repeatedly disavowed Project 2025. Here he is on fo what it is.

[Joe Biden]

It's a group of extremely conservative people got together and wrote up a wish list of things, many of which I disagree with entirely. They're too severe.

[Scott Detrow]

But now that Trump is in office, releasing his own detailed plans, a lot of them are strikingly similar to the ones laid out in Project 2025. And one of its chief architects was just confirmed to head the critical Office of Management and Budget. Here's Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. And make no mistake about it, Russell boat is Project 2025 incarnate. Consider this. Trump rejected Project 2025 during the campaign. Now that he's president, is he operating from its playbook? From npr, I'm Scott Detrow. This message comes from Carvana. Sell your car the convenient way, enter your license plate or vin, answer a few questions, and get a real offer in seconds. Go to car. Today it's consider this from NPR. Politico has been looking into where Project 2025's ideas are showing up in Trump's early executive orders. And this past week, they published a breakdown of 37 different examples. Megan Messerly covers the White House for Politico and joins me now. Welcome.

[Megan Messerly]

Thank you.

[Scott Detrow]

So let's start with that list. What are some of the Areas where we have seen the clearest echoes of Project 2025 in the action of the White House.

[Megan Messerly]

The category that we've seen overlap between Project 2025 and the President's Orders is in the area of social issues. And that's obviously a broad bucket of things like school choice and banning diversity, equity and inclusion programs, prohibiting transgender troops from serving in the military. But we've really seen this cover a broad swath of policy areas, from social issues to immigration and government staffing, energy, foreign affairs, the economy. Like, it touches every area of President Trump's executive order so far.

[Scott Detrow]

It wasn't just a policy plan, though, as well. This was. This was a database of potential administration staffers. This was a conservative bench of people who are motivated to quickly dismantle Big Chunk's good, the government that they don't like. Have you seen that play out in the first few weeks of this administration?

[Megan Messerly]

Absolutely. I mean, if you look at the list in Project 2025, there's this lengthy list of folks who contributed to the project, and there is significant overlap. This list and the folks who are now joining President Trump's administration. He distanced himself from this effort on the campaign trail. But at the same time, you know, it was, I think folks always sort of knew that a lot of these folks were going to end up in the administration. Many of them are, you know, former administration officials themselves. And we're seeing them go back in for Trump 2.0. Some of them are even joining his Cabinet. Russ Vote, the new director of the Office of Management and Budget. His pick for CIA, John Ratcliffe. His borders are Tom Homan.

[Scott Detrow]

And it is fair to say that Vogt did write a big chunk of this plan.

[Megan Messerly]

Absolutely. He authored a whole chapter, in fact, on the executive office of the president. You know, Vogt is known for sort of being really in the weeds. These nitty gritty details of really how to use executive branch authority to the fullest extent and even press that in terms of some separation of powers issues. He has this whole belief about empowerment, this idea that the president doesn't actually have to spend the dollars that Congress allows the federal government to spend.

[Scott Detrow]

I want to stick on that for a moment because this seems like this is going to be a big fight of the Trump administration. We saw this proposed freeze on federal funding. It got a lot of attention. It was challenged in court immediately. The administration eventually walked it back, at least for now, but they made it clear we want to do this again. You're saying that Vote has written about this, has talked about this, this idea that Congress appropriates the money. The executive branch, in his view, and clearly in the view of many people in the Trump administration, doesn't necessarily have to spend it, can choose not to spend it. This is something that was in the plan.

[Megan Messerly]

So if you look at the plan, he sort of lays out this theory of the case. I will say he doesn't go quite as far in Project 2025 as he has in other writings and sort of fully laying out his legal theory here on empowerment. But he makes very clear in Project 2025 that he believes that Congress has delegated far too much authority to what he refers to as the, the fourth branch of government, sort of the administrative state, the career bureaucrats. And so that's reflected in the federal funding freeze that we saw. A lot of folks I talked to, though, say the rollout of that freeze obviously threw Washington into chaos before the White House sort of walked that back. But folks now close to vote, you know, are telling me that they expect him to sort of find a clear cut case where this can actually go to court and potential potentially make its way up to the Supreme Court to determine whether or not they agree with the argument that vote has made that the president does have this authority to say no to congressional spending edicts.

[Scott Detrow]

What is the White House saying right now? Because as we laid out, there was such a clear disavowal of this during the campaign and as you have reported, yet so much of it is actually part of the action plan.

[Megan Messerly]

Exactly. You know, when we've asked them specifically about, you know, the overlap between many of these executive orders and Project 2025, you know, we haven't gotten a lot of, you know, direct response. But in general, the argument that we're hearing from the White House is this idea that, you know, if you look at Project 2025, a lot of these are sort of just long standing conservative ideas or things that President Trump himself did do during his first term. And so I think the argument there is, okay, yes, these ideas may be in Project 2025, but these are also just reflective of President Trump's priorities.

[Scott Detrow]

Have you, it's still early. Democrats are clearly struggling with how to respond politically to all of this. Democrats seem to think this was a powerful argument during perhaps it wasn't because they lost. Have you seen, have you come across this, have you looked at this at all? Are Democrats focusing in on this again in this moment?

[Megan Messerly]

You know, they are. I think it's to be determined what the impact of that is. I mean, I think a lot of the American public. This label of Project 2025 did stick in their minds. When I was on the campaign trail, people were, you know, bringing it up to me of their own volition. So clearly that messaging really broke through and that's why Democrats were leaning so heavily on it. You know, we've seen Senator Kaine, other members of Congress, especially Democr Democrats, leading up to votes, confirmation, you know, saying like this guy is the Project 2025 author. This is what we warned you about. You know, on the other hand, President Trump is moving forward. He is now elected. You know, so if there are any concerns about Project 2025 from Democrats, from members of the American public, those aren't the folks that hold the levers of power right now. And so it's sort of full steam ahead from the Trump administration.

[Scott Detrow]

It's Megan Messerly, White House reporter for Politico. Thank you so much.

[Megan Messerly]

Thanks for having me.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Connor Donovan. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's CONSIDER this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

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