Trump is slashing the number of refugees. What does that mean?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Consider This from NPR

Episode: Trump is slashing the number of refugees. What does that mean?
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Juana Summers
Guest: Sharif Ali, President of the International Refugee Assistance Project; Moses M., former refugee

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the dramatic reduction in the number of refugees the U.S. plans to admit, a move announced by President Trump that slashes admissions to just 7,500 for the upcoming fiscal year—a 94% drop from the cap set during the Biden administration. Through personal stories and expert insights, the show explores the implications for U.S. values, policy, and the lives of refugees waiting for safety.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Human Impact: Moses’ Story (00:00–01:07)

• Moses M. shares his journey as a child refugee escaping civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo, surviving a massacre, and resettling in Boise, Idaho.
• He describes the initial hardships of adapting to a new language and climate, but also the hope and opportunities found in the U.S.
  • “Trying to navigate a new life here was really hard at first, but it was better than being in a refugee camp somewhere in Africa.” (00:40)
• Now a U.S. citizen, realtor, husband, and father, Moses feels proud to contribute to his community.

2. Historical Context: The 1980 Refugee Act (01:07–01:21)

• Host Juana Summers references President Jimmy Carter’s vision in enacting the Refugee Act of 1980, emphasizing generosity and America’s historic commitment to refugees:
  • “We are the most generous nation on earth in receiving refugees, and I feel very deeply that this commitment should be maintained. Ours is a country of refugees.” — President Carter (01:21)

3. Trump’s Refugee Policy Changes (01:34–03:15)

• Until this change, U.S. admissions had never fallen below 10,000 annually, even after 9/11 or during the pandemic.
• Trump’s executive order halts most refugee arrivals—except for white Afrikaners from South Africa—citing resource constraints, safety, and assimilation as reasons.
• The new cap of 7,500 is a stark break from past norms. Moses’ own relatives, including his uncle and cousin, are being denied entry.
  • “Knowing that they won’t be able to come anytime soon because of the decision of one person is kind of heartbreaking.” — Moses M. (02:53)

4. The Legal and Systemic Break: Process and Congress (04:50–08:59)

• Juana Summers: The President is legally required to consult Congress before setting admission numbers; Trump bypassed this, citing the government shutdown.
• Sharif Ali (International Refugee Assistance Project): The move disregards long-standing legal precedent and will likely spur legal challenges.
  • “It is a complete movement away from historical precedent and the law.” (06:49)
• Applicants already in the “pipeline”—those who have cleared security and vetting—are left stranded, many in unsafe conditions.
  • “They have went through a very extraordinary vetting process... They just want to come to safety after years of persecution and conflict.” (05:37)

5. The Implications of Giving Ethnic Preference (08:12–08:59)

• For the first time, a single ethnic group (white Afrikaners) is prioritized above all others.
• Sharif Ali expresses concern about what this signals:
  • “We’re basically putting a door to all those who are not Afrikaners to this country, which really incites concerns about racism and xenophobia.” (08:27)

6. The Refugee Experience and American Values (07:14–08:12)

• Sharif Ali rebuts arguments that refugees are an economic or security burden:
  • “Refugees contribute economically… refugees are the most vetted immigrants… You’re enjoying the cuisine, the art, the music, the contribution to those communities. And what we’re doing is we’re closing ourselves off from the rest of the world at our own detriment, economically, culturally, and honestly, morally.” (07:14)

7. Personal Stories: The Stakes of Policy (09:10–10:39)

• Ali shares the case of Pesito, a Congolese refugee, whose flight to the U.S. was at risk because of the Trump policy but who made it to safety due to a court injunction:
  • “The amount of gratitude that I’ve seen from him, along with so many other refugees, just indicates the passion that they have and commitment to serve in the U.S. in a manner that any person here would be proud to have them as their neighbor.” (10:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Moses M.:
  “We were one of the lucky ones that were also selected to be able to resettle in the United States.” (00:31)
  “I am an American citizen and a father of two and I like to think that I do contribute to the community that I’m a part of here.” (00:59)
• President Jimmy Carter:
  “Ours is a country of refugees.” (01:21)
• Sharif Ali:
  “They are currently have went through a very extraordinary vetting process to come into the United States. We have clients that have been calling us that have been in tears.” (05:37)
  “There’s a challenge right now with how people are scapegoating refugees and immigrants for the problems that exist in America today.” (07:14)
• On Race-Based Policy:
  “We’re basically putting a door to all those who are not Afrikaners to this country, which really incites concerns about racism and xenophobia.” (08:27)
• On Refugee Gratitude and Resilience:
  “His daughter is able to go to school without fear for her safety, that him and his wife are able to pursue work and opportunities to have a dignified life here in the U.S.” (10:39)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Moses’ personal story & resettlement: 00:00–01:07
• Refugee Act of 1980/Carter’s vision: 01:07–01:21
• Trump’s new policy explanation: 01:34–03:15
• Legal requirements & bypassing Congress: 04:50–06:49
• Concerns about ethnic preference & racism: 08:12–08:59
• Refugee contributions & values: 07:14–08:12
• Individual case (Pesito) & gratitude: 09:10–10:39

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Conclusion

The episode offers a poignant look at U.S. refugee policy through the lens of individuals like Moses M. and those still waiting to come. It highlights how the Trump administration’s drastic cuts and specific exclusions are not just a political issue but a matter that strikes at the core of American identity and values. Legal, moral, and humanitarian concerns are raised about both the policy and the precedent it sets for the future of the refugee program.

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Transcript

[Juana Summers]

Moses M. Was just a kid when he escaped a civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo and then survived a massacre at a refugee camp in neighboring Burundi.

[Moses M.]

My tribe of Bunyamolinge tribe was being persecuted at the time.

[Juana Summers]

Moses M. Spoke to NPR on the condition that we do not use his last name to protect his relatives who are trying to seek protection in the US as refugees. In 2007, when Moses was 13, he and his family moved to Boise, Idaho.

[Moses M.]

We were one of the lucky ones that were also selected to be able to resettle in the United States.

[Juana Summers]

He had to learn a new language and adapt to colder weather.

[Moses M.]

Trying to navigate a new life here was really hard at first, but it was better than being in a refugee camp somewhere in Africa.

[Juana Summers]

Fast forward to present day, ten years after resettling. Moses is now in real estate. He's married and a father to a three year old boy and a six year old girl.

[Moses M.]

I am an American citizen and a father of two and I like to think that I do contribute to the community that I'm a part of here.

[Juana Summers]

That is exactly what President Jimmy Carter envisioned when he signed the Refugee act into law in 1980. It was a pivotal moment that shaped US refugee policy and granted pathways for resettlement. Here's Carter that same year.

[Moses M.]

We are the most generous nation on earth in receiving refugees, and I feel very deeply that this commitment should be maintained. Ours is a country of refugees.

[Juana Summers]

According to the Migration Policy institute, more than 3 million refugees have been admitted since 1980. And the number of refugees admitted to the United States has never dipped below 10,000 admissions a year, even after the 911 attacks or during the pandemic. Until now. On President Trump's first day in office, he halted the arrival of refugees coming into the United States, except for Africaners, South Africa's white minority. Trump said the country, quote, lacks the ability to absorb a large number of refugees in a manner that does not, quote, compromise the availability of resources for Americans, that protects their safety and security and that ensures the appropriate assimilation of refugees. Here is Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landau on why white South Africans were were the exception to the pause.

[Sharif Ali]

Some of the criteria are making sure that refugees did not pose any challenge to our national security and that they could be assimilated easily into our country.

[Juana Summers]

Then last week, Trump announced that only 7,500 refugees would be admitted in the coming fiscal year. That's a 94% cut from the 125,000 cap set by Biden. Moses, uncle and cousin Robert are among the many people who are now being turned away.

[Moses M.]

They had hopes of being able to have a good life. You know, their son could get medical attention and can also get a chance to be able to go to school. My family is religious and we believe everything happens for a reason. But knowing that they won't be able to come anytime soon because of the decision of one person is kind of heartbreaking.

[Juana Summers]

Consider this as the Trump administration drastically cuts the number of refugees it will admit to the United States, what does that mean for the entire US Refugee system? From npr, I'm Juana Summers.

[Sharif Ali]

Hey, I'm Daoud Tyler Amin, and I'm Empowers. We are an editor and a critic at NPR Music, and we're also friends who love digging into music histories and thinking about how songs can change over time.

[Juana Summers]

And we're doing that on a new show.

[Sharif Ali]

We're totally nerding out about the songs.

[Juana Summers]

That just stick with us and why.

[Sharif Ali]

Find our first episode in the All Songs considered feed on October 23rd.

[Juana Summers]

Families around the world aren't having as many kids as they used to. Researchers say the average woman is having half as many children now than they did in the 1970s. I love having only one child. On THE Sunday STORY from Up first, why are so many families making this choice and what exactly does it mean for our future? Listen now to the Sunday Story on the up first podcast from NPR.

[Sharif Ali]

Hi, it's Terry Gross, host of FRESH AIR. Hey, take a break from the 24 hour news cycle with us and listen to long form interviews with your favorite authors, actors, filmmakers, comedians and musicians. The people making the art that nourishes us and speaks to our times. So listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and whyy.

[Juana Summers]

It's Consider this from npr. Every year, the president of the United States determines how many refugees can enter this country. The law says he must consult Congress on this number. But last week when President Trump announced reducing the number of refugees, he did so without Congress. Sharif Ali leads the International Refugee Assistance Project, an organization that helps refugees and other immigrants navigate the legal process of resettlement. The International Refugee Assistance Project is also challenging Trump's suspension of the US Refugee admissions program. And he came into our studios to talk to us about it. So just on a very practical level, where does this leave the thousands of refugees who are already in the pipeline to come here to the United States?

[Sharif Ali]

It really leaves them in shambles, quite frankly. They are currently have went through a very extraordinary vetting process to come into the United States. We have clients that have been calling us that have been in Tears. They just want to come to safety after years of persecution and conflict.

[Juana Summers]

The law that established the current system of refugee admissions in this country is something called the Refugee act of 1980. Can you just walk us through what that law guarantees refugees?

[Moses M.]

Well.

[Sharif Ali]

Well, that law allows for refugees to come into the United States through a process that includes a vetting process that also includes a determination by the President of where refugees are coming from. After going through that process, there is a resettlement agency that helps facilitate that settlement into the United States. That resettlement process is approximately six months to a year. Refugees are provided support for housing, English as second language, learning opportunities for employment, and support from local communities to help them integrate into society.

[Juana Summers]

And part of that law, as I understand it, it requires that the President consult Congress on the number of refugees that he determined should be let into the United States, which this administration did not do. The Trump administration says that's because the government is currently shut down. Do we expect lawsuits?

[Sharif Ali]

I can't tell you right now. However, it is a complete movement away from historical precedent and the law. The law actually requires the President and his Cabinet members to consult with Congress. So, therefore, I do anticipate there will be a challenge to this. I cannot tell you who or what, but I do anticipate a challenge.

[Juana Summers]

What do you say to those who might make the case that it shouldn't be America's job to take in refugees?

[Sharif Ali]

There's a challenge right now with how people are scapegoating refugees and immigrants for the problems that exist in America today. If they are economic problems, refugees contribute economically. If people are afraid of their safety, refugees are the most vetted immigrants that come into the United States. If people are concerned about the change in their culture, if you look at any major city across the US you are enjoying the cuisine of people who have come into this country from a variety of different places. You're enjoying the art, the music, the contribution to those communities. And what we're doing is we're closing ourselves off from the rest of the world at our own detriment, economically, culturally, and honestly, morally. This is a humanitarian commitment that we've established in the 1980 Refugee act, something that has been based on our American values of welcoming people regardless of what they have went through, to find a new home in America, to be a place for their safety, a place for their contribution.

[Juana Summers]

Now, there have been, of course, waves of refugees at various points across US History, but am I correct that this is the first time that one ethnic group has been giving preference? And we're of course, talking about the white Afrikaners from South Africa, which are the same group that implemented apartheid in that country.

[Sharif Ali]

That is correct. And this is one of the concerns that the resettlement agencies have. We're not here to discuss the validity of Afrikaners, but what is afforded to them should be afforded to all people, considering that they are the most vetted people that come into this country. So the concern that many in our space have, including our organization, is that we're basically putting a door to all those who are not Afrikaners to this country, which really incites concerns about racism and xenophobia.

[Juana Summers]

Sharif, as you think about these new restrictions on refugees in the U.S. is there someone that comes to mind that you think about who you worked with in the past who maybe wouldn't be able to come into the United States now?

[Sharif Ali]

Yeah, actually there's quite a few. But one of them that I'll share with you is one of our clients that is currently part of the Pesito vs Trump case. His name is Pesito and he is a father who fled from Congo with his wife and daughter. And after the January 21, they were told that they were no longer going to be able to take their flight coming into the US and they had shared with us that they felt like after so many doors had been closed in front of their faces, they finally thought when they got approval to travel that they were going to embark on a journey to a new home. And this is after years of fleeing violence in Congo, staying in Kenya to try to settle themselves, and they finally were told that no, your travel is not allowed into the U.S. thankfully, due to the injunction we received early on in the Pesito vs Trump case. He was one of the 80 individuals that was allowed to come into the US and that litigation is ongoing. However, he has communicated to us and told us how thankful and grateful he is that he's been able to come to the US he's so thankful that his daughter is able to go to school now without fear for her safety, that him and his wife are able to pursue work and opportunities to have a dignified life here in the US and the amount of gratitude that I've seen from him, along with so many other refugees, just indicates the passion that they have and commitment to serve in the US In a manner that any person here would be proud to have them as their neighbor.

[Juana Summers]

That was Sharif Ali, president of the International Refugee Assistance Project. This episode was produced by Janaki Mehta, Conor Donovan and Karen Zamora, with audio engineering by Becky Brown and Simon Laszlo Jansen. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Juana Summers. I'm Rachel Martin. If you're tired of small talk, check.

[Sharif Ali]

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