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Scott Detrow (1:55)

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Brittney Luce (2:37)

Hey. Hey, it's Brittney Luce from It's been a minute. Your voicemail box is full. Okay, I'll admit it. So is mine. So I'm leaving this for you here. I wanted to say thank you for supporting NPR this year. And if you haven't given yet, it's not too Late. Give me a call back when you can visit donate.npr.org.

Scott Detrow (3:06)

It's consider this from NPR. More than 31 million people live in Venezuela. And right now, with so much of the world focused on the country, we wanted to get a better sense of what life is like for the millions of Venezuelans living in it in the midst of all of this upheaval. To do that, I spoke with Venezuelan journalist Tony Frangi. He heads the newsletter Venezuela Weekly. Let me just start with the Nobel Prize. How much do you think people in Caracas will be following the presentation tomorrow?

Interviewer / NPR Host (3:32)

We'll be talking and thinking about that.

Tony Frangi (3:35)

I think it's a very important topic of conversation here, even though it's not a very public one because of the state of affairs in the country, but because many Venezuelans are expected to see if Marecorina actually managed to leave Venezuela for Oslo, as she said. I think that's one of the main reasons people are watching and following the news of the prize, but also the fact that these are very big news for us and many people see them as the result of the struggle and the democratic fight that many Venezuelans have been enduring for the last year in the country after the July 28th elections of 2024.

Interviewer / NPR Host (4:07)

When you talk about a lot of conversation, but not too public about it, give me a sense of what that looks like. Is that just a side conversation? Is that just on your phone but not in public, on social media? Like, what's the best way to understand that and why?

Tony Frangi (4:19)

So after the elections happen and the opposition managed to prove that their official results were not the ones shown by the polling station machines, the government proceeded with a bigger crackdown on civil society. And since then, politics have been mostly off the table for many Venezuelans in public places, in social media, in places that can be heard and seen. So it has become more or less a conversation within family or within private circ circles. In fact, there's reports of journalists, of radio journalists who were fired from their jobs because they reported of the Nobel Peace Prize. Really? So in a way, there's a lot of sense of fear due to repression and a lot of self censorship in Venezuelans that has forced many of these conversations and topics to more private and intimate spaces.

Interviewer / NPR Host (5:02)

I want to talk about the election in a moment. But on this topic of what conversation is like and censorship and self censorship.

Scott Detrow (5:09)

What is being said or thought and.

Interviewer / NPR Host (5:11)

Talked about when it comes to all.

Scott Detrow (5:12)

Of this US Military pressure, is that.

Interviewer / NPR Host (5:14)

Front and center or is that also an on the margins conversation?

Tony Frangi (5:17)

It's especially on the margins, because the government also has a hidden sense of paranoia due to the constant US air incursions and of course, the warships in the coast. So what we've seen is a mix between people whispering their opinions or what they think and more or less a generalized sense of denial with the situation. For many Venezuelans, the only solution is to keep forward with their lives as. As it is, especially with rising inflation, especially with an increasingly worse economic situation during the holiday seasons. So sometimes people would. Wouldn't think that a country that is supposedly in the brink of war, you can find, I don't know, Christmas fairs or Halloween parties or new stores opening up and people just going to buy stuff there for Christmas. But it's what's happening. Because for many, the only solution is to just keep with their daily lives and try to act as if nothing is happening. Because I feel that many Venezuelans won't really consider this to be a bluff until something actually happens. It's been 25 years of constant political upheaval. So for men, it's just another check in the long list.

Interviewer / NPR Host (6:25)

Yeah. Do you see any physical signs of preparations for any sort of military conflict?

Tony Frangi (6:30)

Not as much. The government has moved certain assets to the cause. They have moved.

Tony Frangi (6:36)

Machinery to take down planes to military bases. There has been a mobilization of the militia. But beyond that, the city more or less remains, perhaps more militarized, perhaps with more policemen. But more or less life remains the same in Venezuela at this point, we're having practically weekly incursions of F18 or B2 planes from the US and it's just become like another normal thing. We actually had one today, and people are just going on with their lives because it has already become a weekly thing for more than a few months.

Interviewer / NPR Host (7:07)

You know, NPR has been trying to report from Venezuela, but has not been granted permission to enter the country.

Scott Detrow (7:13)

What is one thing about life in Venezuela today that you feel like people.

Interviewer / NPR Host (7:18)

Listening to this should know that you wish you could tell more people about?

Tony Frangi (7:22)

Well, I would say firstly that if you see a country with baseball stadiums full of people and people doing Christmas shopping, it doesn't mean that that country is not in crisis or that that country is not following politics, but rather that countries with crises, with political conflicts, even with war, people there, they try to continue their lives as it is. And it's two things that can coexist despite how bizarre it can look. And on the other hand, I would say that people should sometimes give more voice to Venezuelans and listen to Venezuelans. I feel US Media has focused itself mostly on foreign analysts on the country. And there hasn't been much.

Tony Frangi (7:59)

Much space for voices of Venezuelans. And I think that's important, especially because, as I said, many Venezuelans are self silencing themselves or doing self censorship and that is definitely generating a bias in their reporting. So I would say that they should consider that Venezuelans opinions are more varied and diverse than they think. And definitely many times it will clash with what many in the US Think should happen or think is happening in Venezuela.

Interviewer / NPR Host (8:22)

Well, we were really happy to talk to you about it. Thank you for taking the time.

Tony Frangi (8:26)

Thank you so much.

Interviewer / NPR Host (8:26)

That is Venezuelan journalist Tony Frangi joining us from Caracas. Thank you.

Scott Detrow (8:31)

This episode was produced by Karen Zamora and Matt Ozog with audio engineering by Ted Mebane. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun.

Scott Detrow (8:45)

It's Consider this from npr.

Interviewer / NPR Host (8:47)

I'm Scott Detrow.

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