Juana Summers (1:58)

And if the United States attacks, Iran has threatened to retaliate. Nader Habibi focuses on Middle east economics at Brandeis University. He told NPR that the regime knows the US could do considerable damage to the ballistic missile facilities and hit political targets.

Nader Habibi (2:15)

I don't think they are underestimating the risk. That's why they are issuing some threatening postures in terms of retaliation, even though in reality they might not be able to carry out those threats.

Juana Summers (2:29)

Here's Trump again.

Donald Trump (2:30)

If they do that, we will hit them at levels that they've never been hit before.

Host/Moderator (2:35)

Consider this.

Juana Summers (2:37)

Sanctions, cyber attacks, military strikes. President Trump keeps suggesting that the United States may get involved if so when and how? From npr, I'm Juana Summers.

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Juana Summers (4:08)

And the United States have been trading threats over the last few days as anti government protests in Iran have killed hundreds of people. For more, we're joined by NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez and national security correspondent Greg Myri. Hi to both of you.

Franco Ordonez (4:22)

Hello.

Greg Myre (4:22)

I wanna.

Host/Moderator (4:23)

Greg, I'll start with you.

Juana Summers (4:24)

Tell us what latest is on these protests.

Greg Myre (4:26)

Yeah, the Iranian security forces are using deadly force much more frequently in recent days. More than 500 Iranians have been killed now over the past two weeks. These are mostly protesters and some security force members. This is according to the human rights activists in Iran. They are based here in the US but have monitors in Iran. Now, neither NPR nor other news organization can verify these figures because information is so far fragmented from Iran right now. The government has shut down the Internet for the past several days. We are seeing videos on social media, but very little solid information. Local journalists are restrained. Foreign journalists can't get into the country. And over the years, we've seen several outbursts of these large street demonstrations dating back really to 2009. The latest one erupted over miserable economic conditions, but now there are increasing calls to oust the regime. This may well be the biggest challenge to the Islamic government since it came to power in 1979.

Host/Moderator (5:28)

And as we heard at the top, President Trump says he is looking at all sorts of options in Iran.

Juana Summers (5:33)

Franco, what can you tell us about him?

Franco Ordonez (5:35)

Yeah, President Trump said Iran is starting to cross his red lines, but he did not say exactly what they're looking at. But he and his administration say they are weighing several different possibilities, including military and non military options. And he said after making earlier threats that the leaders of Iran reached out actually over the weekend and want to negotiate. Now his team is working on a meeting, but he also said they might have to act sooner if this violence that Greg is talking about continues. Trump's expected to meet with his national security team tomorrow about Iran. Iran actually has responded as well, warning that US Bases could be considered a legitimate target if the US Goes through with the strike. But Press Secretary Caroline Levitt called those comments laughable today and said on Fox News that the regime is saying one thing publicly and saying something very different privately to the administration.

Host/Moderator (6:28)

But is President Trump's goal really to protect protesters?

Juana Summers (6:31)

I mean, he's not exactly known for fighting for human rights. What kind of deal is he seeking?

Franco Ordonez (6:35)

Yeah, he's definitely not known for fighting for human rights, but let's also remember that he did order military strikes on Syrian targets during his first administration in response to chemical attacks by the Assad regime. At that time, he talked about his red line being crossed as well and specifically cited the image of choking children. Now, today or this weekend, Trump also said he would talk with billionaire Elon Musk about possibly getting Starlink, Musk's satellite Internet service, to help with communications in Iran. But what Trump really wants, and this is something he's wanted for a long time, is a deal that permanently prevents Iran from getting nuclear weapons.

Host/Moderator (7:14)

Franco. What kind of feedback is President Trump getting from Congress, US Allies, other countries in the Middle East?

Franco Ordonez (7:20)

Well, he's always bouncing ideas off his friends and allies. One close ally, Senator Lindsey Graham, for example, is urging Trump to kill, quote, kill the leaders of Iran who are killing protesters. Graham argued on Fox News that taking out the supreme Leaders would lead to peace and a new day in the Middle East. Now, of course, other lawmakers have expressed caution about taking military action. We've also heard one from the exiled crown Prince of Iran who has called on Trump to intervene. Trump was asked if he'd meet with the crown Prince by a conservative radio host, Hugh Hewitt. But Trump said it would not be appropriate right now to do that.

Host/Moderator (7:57)

Greg, if we can, let's just take a step back here and talk about how Iran's leadership has become so vulnerable.

Greg Myre (8:02)

Yeah, Iran has really suffered this series of major setbacks in the past two years, first among its proxy network in the region and now at home. It really starts, Juana, with the Hamas attack in Israel in October of 2023. Israel's harsh response decimated Hamas, which has been supported by Iran. And a year later, the fall of 2024, Israel delivered another powerful blow, this time to Hezbollah and Lebanon, which Iran also backs. Right after that, Syrian dictator Bashar al Assad fled, removing another ally. Iran invested billions and used these groups to project power in the region. Suddenly they're all gone or badly weakened. And then Israel and the US Teamed up and bombed Last June. They hit the nuclear facilities, but they also exposed the weakness of Iran's defenses. And now we're seeing these mass protests challenging the regime.

Host/Moderator (8:58)

And Greg, what options does the Iranian leadership have at this point?

Greg Myre (9:01)

Well, they're limited and they're not good ones. The traditional playbook is to unleash the Revolutionary Guards to crush the protests. That worked previously. It may work again, but it doesn't address the fundamental grievances on living standards. And that will keep eroding any support the regime might have left. Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah ali Khamenei is 86. He's been in power 37 years. He's been good at holding power, but he's failed to meet the day to day needs of Iranians.

Host/Moderator (9:32)

NPR's Greg Myhrey and Franco Ordonez. Thanks to both of you.

Greg Myre (9:35)

Sure thing, Juan. Thank you.

Host/Moderator (9:37)

This episode was produced by Karen Zamora.

Juana Summers (9:39)

With audio engineering by Becky Brown and Josephine Nihonai. It was edited by Andrew Sussman, Rebecca Metzler and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Juana Summers.

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