Jane Arraf (2:46)

Hi, it's Terry Gross, host of FRESH AIR. Hey, take a break from the 24 hour news cycle with us and listen to long form interviews with with your favorite authors, actors, filmmakers, comedians and musicians, the people making the art that nourishes us and speaks to our times. So listen to the Fresh AIR podcast from NPR and whyy. You know, I have to ask, with.

Andrew Limbong (3:10)

This endless stream of sellable content, do you think Taylor Swift is exploiting her fans? No. I'm going to say yes with an asterisk. Every pop star exploits their fans. Is Taylor Swift exploiting her fans or.

Jane Arraf (3:26)

Is she feeding them?

Andrew Limbong (3:28)

Listen to It's Been a Minute on.

Jane Arraf (3:29)

The NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Limbong (3:41)

It's considered this from npr. Cautious optimism is the phrase we in the news business have been using to describe people's reaction to the ceasefire in Gaza. NPR's Jane has been covering the Middle east for decades. She's reported on failed peace deals and ceasefires that eventually fell apart. So when we spoke on Friday, I wanted to know, is cautious optimism how people there on the ground really feel? Is that how she really feels?

Jane Arraf (4:08)

Cautious? I mean, certainly cautious. We are very cautious optimism. I struggle these days with the word optimism. I used to be, I swear, I used to be an optimistic person that's kind of taken a beating in the last few years.

Andrew Limbong (4:21)

Yeah, I can imagine. I wonder, what is it like to cover a story that stretches across borders? Right. Because so you're, you're based in Amman, Jordan. You know, what's happening now in Gaza kind of reverberates throughout so many different countries. And how do you sort of wrap your head around all of that?

Jane Arraf (4:38)

Pretty much all the countries I go to are in the Arab world. They're linked. And when you travel to these countries, whether it's Lebanon or Syria or Iraq, you realize how interconnected they are. And also, even though we're talking about historical issues that created the countries in this region, it's kind of as if it was yesterday. I was in south Lebanon recently, for instance, and I was standing on the ruins of a demolished village that overlooks Israel. And it was demolished by the Israeli army after the ceasefire with Lebanon last year because they want to depopulate those border villages. But from that Lebanese village, you could see into Israel. You could see the part of Israel that used to be Palestinian land. In fact, some of the people we interviewed in Lebanon, their families had farmed that land. You could see into the Golan Heights in Syria. And when you're in Jordan, for instance, now again, you can get in a taxi and you can go to Damascus for lunch if you want. It's that close. I mean, everything is so interconnected here that it makes it both easier and more complicated to figure out solutions to things.

Andrew Limbong (5:59)

When we present the News in Capu, we always make sure to like, tell the audience how close everything is. But I was just fiddling around from like on Google Maps this morning. Be like, oh, that is only two hours away. You know, that is.

Jane Arraf (6:10)

It's wild, isn't it? Yeah.

Andrew Limbong (6:12)

And it is like. I mean, I guess this is an absurd question, but, like, is that scary to be so close to it all?

Jane Arraf (6:18)

No, no, it's exhilarating. Particularly if you're a fan of history. Right. Because in all of these places, you are in places that are deeply important to almost every major religion, where figures from the Bible walked, for instance, where some of the famous poets from history recited poetry in the streets. Everything is here. And it's such an old civilization in so many places. I mean, think of Iraq, right? Cradle of civilization. And you know, for me, one of the most amazing things that even now makes me feel so lucky to be a journalist is that I can go to places that I only read about when I was a child. Like places with magical names like Babylon and Damascus, and they actually exist. Right.

Andrew Limbong (7:11)

There's a Babylon in Long Island. But it's not as.

Jane Arraf (7:15)

You also have a lot of Lebanons, right?

Andrew Limbong (7:17)

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of Lebanons. Yeah. Violence does do many things. It attracts attention. Assuming the ceasefire holds, I imagine people's interest might drift elsewhere. Right here in the States, we've got a government shutdown. You know, there's plenty of, like, elections coming up and all that. And so I'm curious, as people continue the hard work of figuring out what happens next in the region, what are you worried might get under covered?

Jane Arraf (7:47)

That's one of the pivotal questions, isn't it, that we face as journalists? Because it's really easy to get people's attention during war. I mean, it's not easy to sustain that attention, certainly, even when unbelievable things are happening. But what I would hope is that there's a momentum to this. And I think that even though, yes, interest will definitely wane, but people are always interested in people. The other day in South Lebanon, we were going along one of these destroyed villages and we saw this man who was dancing on the roof of his destroyed home to really loud music. There was no one else around for miles. So we stopped and talked to him. And you know, his life is kind of the wider story of what's happened in South Lebanon. But the draw is here is this man who, despite everything, is dancing. And there will always be stories like that that I think people will always be interested in, because end of the day People are interested in.

Andrew Limbong (8:51)

People having covered this story for a long time, I think I'm. I'm wondering what could go wrong here.

Jane Arraf (8:59)

So many things could go wrong. We're now a week into the ceasefire, but all the other things that have to happen are not happening. Doesn't mean they won't happen. It just means they're not. For instance, famine has been spreading through Gaza. More than 90% of homes are damaged or destroyed. Winter is coming. Israel has restricted aid for months. And as part of the ceasefire agreement, it has agreed to dramatically increase aid, but it has not given signs that it's going to do that. It has kept closed one of the main borders with Gaza that's used for aid shipments. It has deregistered major international aid organizations. So one of the things people really need to focus on, I think, and that we need to focus on is how is this all going to work? You know, a ceasefire is wonderful news and it's a moment of almost euphoria, but then for anything to actually happen takes so much work, so much organization, so much effort, and we are not yet seeing that on the ground.

Andrew Limbong (10:14)

How are you doing?

Jane Arraf (10:15)

How am I doing?

Andrew Limbong (10:16)

Yeah, how are you doing?

Jane Arraf (10:17)

Oh, such a nice question. Thank you for asking. I think I'm doing like a lot of people are doing. You know, one of the stories I'm looking into is psychotherapists and psychiatrists who say they've been seeing an increase in like free floating anxiety. Obviously that's not a clinical term, but it's basically an increase in anxiety from all the horrible things that have been happening in the world and the inability to do anything about it. And it's really interesting to me that that is a phenomenon now as journalists. I mean, part of the reason we go into journalism, a lot of it is this is kind of a way to not do something about it, but a way to feel useful, to explain what's happening. So that certainly keeps me going.

Andrew Limbong (11:03)

It's funny, I asked you how you're doing and then you went to a thing about a story that you're working on, which is a very journalism thing to do.

Jane Arraf (11:14)

Yes. Let me just say when you ask anyone here these days, and these days mean the past two years, how are you? You instantly realize there's no answer to that. Right. There's no short answer to that because the world has been falling apart, essentially. So when you ask people, how are you? A lot of people find it hard to answer.

Andrew Limbong (11:39)

That's NPR's Jane ref. Jane, thank you so much.

Jane Arraf (11:41)

Thank you.

Andrew Limbong (11:43)

This episode was produced by Lena Muhammad and Avery Keighley. It was edited by Adam Raney. Our executive producer is Sami Yenighu. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Andrew Limbong.

Jane Arraf (12:04)

When someone you love is diagnosed with cancer or another serious illness, all you want to do is help. But where do you start? On the Life Kit podcast, we have tips for you. Your agenda should be I'm going to be with you and be totally present to whatever comes up. Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts for different ways to offer support. A lot of short daily news podcasts focus on just one story, but right now you probably need more on up first from NPR, we bring you three of the world's top headlines every day in under 15 minutes because no one story can capture all that's happening in this big crazy world of ours on any given morning. Listen now to the upverse podcast from npr. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this plus@plus.NPR.org that's plus.NPR.org.