What we know about President Trump's nominee to lead the Bureau of Labor Statistics

Summary

Summary: "What we know about President Trump's nominee to lead the Bureau of Labor Statistics"

Podcast: Consider This from NPR
Date: August 17, 2025
Host: Scott Detrow
Guest: E.J. Fagan, professor of political science at the University of Illinois in Chicago and author of "The Rise of Partisan Think Tanks and the Polarization of American Politics"

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Episode Overview

This episode examines President Trump's nomination of E.J. Antoni, chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, to head the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). NPR explores why this decision has caused concern in the economics and policy communities, focusing on the increasing influence of the Heritage Foundation within the Trump administration and the broader implications for traditionally nonpartisan institutions like the BLS.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Heritage Foundation's Growing Influence

• Overview of Think Tank Influence:

  • Traditionally, economists in Washington think tanks deal in theory and policy proposals that often don’t reach real implementation. The Heritage Foundation, however, has seen many of its ideas become prominent features of the Trump administration's agenda.
    • “Highly respected economists often work in so-called think tanks... That’s not the case for the Heritage Foundation, a conservative group that has been a driving force in the Trump administration’s agenda.” (Scott Detrow, 00:09)

• Project 2025:

  • Heritage published "Project 2025," a plan for Trump’s second term that has shaped major policy moves: tougher immigration, reducing the federal workforce, ending public media funding.
  • The project became a talking point in political attacks during the election, leading Trump to distance himself from it publicly, though its influence persisted behind the scenes.
    • “It’s called Project 2025, a 922 page blueprint to make Don the most powerful president ever.” (Unnamed Commentator, 00:51)

2. The Politicization of the Bureau of Labor Statistics

• The BLS is traditionally a nonpartisan, data-focused agency.
• President Trump fired the previous head of BLS after an unwelcome economic report, raising alarm about politicization.
• E.J. Antoni’s nomination, given his direct Heritage ties and advocacy for Trump policies, breaks with precedent and prompted criticism from economists across the spectrum.
  • “The appointment surprised so many people because the BLS is traditionally nonpartisan, a data driven agency.” (Scott Detrow, 01:41)

3. Heritage Foundation’s Evolution and Alignment with Trumpism

• Historical Shift:

  • Fagan describes Heritage’s move from a broad conservative think tank aligned loosely with previous Republican administrations to a more advocacy-driven organization fully embracing Trump-era, MAGA-aligned conservatism.
  • “They very often were on the outs with certain types of Republicans… I think the moment that you see this real shift… there’s a leadership transition in 2013… Jim DeMint …becomes the new president… and you see this rapid shift from that organization beginning at that point.” (E.J. Fagan, 04:36)

• Relationship with the Trump Administration:

  • Heritage now plays a core role in staffing and policy planning for Trump, particularly via Project 2025, “elbowing out” the old establishment wing of the party.
  • “What Heritage did with Project 2025 is they organized a Trump administration that could just elbow out pretty much the entire other side of the party, the Mitt Romney side of the party, the George W. Bush side of the party.” (E.J. Fagan, 05:30)

• Influencing Policy or Following Leadership?

  • Fagan contends Heritage has become more reactive, acting as the “lowest common denominator” to enable a more authoritarian Republican party, rather than purely producing policy scaffolding for Trump.
  • “Right now, the bargain… is that they’re willing to be the lowest common denominator. Right. They’re willing to be the organization that enables a more authoritarian Republican Party.” (E.J. Fagan, 06:21)

4. The Antoni Nomination and its Ramifications

• Antoni is seen as unqualified for the statistical, data-driven leadership required at BLS.
• Fagan warns this is emblematic of the Heritage Foundation’s transformation—less substantive policy work, more political advocacy.
• Concerns about BLS’s capacity to continue accurate, trusted data collection under Antoni’s leadership.
  • “Antoni is incredibly unqualified for that job… BLS is a real job… not a traditional hack, highly political position for a reason. I think he’s going to be a disaster over there… I’m very skeptical that they’re going to continue putting out the Current Population Survey…” (E.J. Fagan, 08:04)

5. Think Tanks and Expertise in Contemporary Politics

• Heritage was founded on the premise that mainstream experts were wrong and conservatives needed their own answers; this led to the creation of parallel “experts.”
• Shift from genuine policy expertise to “enablers” who justify the party line, even at the cost of objective analysis.
• This transformation, Fagan argues, is both Heritage’s greatest source of power and its primary liability.
  • “The dangerous thing is that they’re still an influential organization. And so they’ve replaced the real policy wonks with enablers… If I were someone who’s concerned about the conservative policy world, I’d be very concerned about that.” (E.J. Fagan, 08:55)

6. The White House Responds

• The administration defended Antoni:
  • “Antoni’s education and vast experience as an economist has prepared him to produce accurate public data. In addition to being the chief economist at the Heritage foundation, he has frequently testified before Congress on economic issues. His research has been featured by many think tanks and advocacy groups.” (White House spokesperson statement, read by Scott Detrow, 09:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Highly respected economists often work in so called think tanks in Washington, D.C. can be pretty theoretical… that's not the case for the Heritage Foundation.”
  – Scott Detrow, 00:09

• “It’s called Project 2025, a 922 page blueprint to make Don the most powerful president ever.”
  – Unnamed Commentator, 00:51

• “The BLS is traditionally nonpartisan, a data driven agency.”
  – Scott Detrow, 01:41

• “Jim DeMint, Republican senator, actually retires from the Senate in order to take a very large salary to be the new president of the Heritage foundation. And you see this rapid shift from that organization kind of beginning at that point.”
  – E.J. Fagan, 04:36

• “Right now, the bargain that Heritage has been making, really, since about 2022 or so, is that they're willing to be the lowest common denominator. Right. They're willing to be the organization that enables a more authoritarian Republican Party.”
  – E.J. Fagan, 06:21

• “Antoni is incredibly unqualified for that job… I think he’s going to be a disaster over there… I’m just very skeptical that they're going to continue putting out the Current Population Survey…”
  – E.J. Fagan, 08:04

• “They’ve replaced the real policy wonks with enablers. And I think that’s… both their strongest and their weakest right now.”
  – E.J. Fagan, 08:55

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Heritage Foundation’s Influence and Project 2025: 00:01–01:29
• Background on the BLS and the Antoni Nomination: 01:29–03:20
• Origins and Evolution of the Heritage Foundation (with E.J. Fagan): 04:02–05:18
• Heritage/Trump Administration Relationship & Project 2025: 05:18–06:46
• Examples of Heritage’s Policy Shift: 06:46–07:30
• Antoni Nomination & Implications for BLS: 07:30–08:45
• Think Tanks, Expertise, and Current Political Climate: 08:45–09:53
• White House Response on Antoni: 09:53–10:40

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Conclusion

This episode unpacks the rapid politicization and transformation of the Heritage Foundation from think tank to powerful advocacy engine for the current Republican agenda. Antoni’s nomination to the BLS is depicted as a pivotal episode in this trend, raising serious concerns about the future of objectivity in government data and the broader implications of placing ideology above expertise in American governance.

Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

It's been a pretty good year for the Heritage Foundation.

[Unnamed Commentator]

Everybody knows Steve Moore with the Heritage foundation, highly respected, one of the most.

[Scott Detrow]

Highly respected economists often work in so called think tanks in Washington, D.C. can be pretty theoretical. People work on policy ideas that may or may not ever make their way into actual real life policy in Congress or the White House. That's not the case for the Heritage Foundation, a conservative group that has been a driving force in the Trump administration's agenda. Ahead of last year's election, the group published a plan for President Trump's second term in office called Project 2025. It has come to define most of his major accomplishments, like cracking down on illegal immigration, gutting the federal workforce, and even ending funding for public media. During the campaign, Democrats used the plan as an attack line.

[Unnamed Commentator]

It's called Project 2025, a 922 page blueprint to make Don the most powerful president ever.

[Scott Detrow]

Those attacks were so effective that Trump distanced himself at the time from the.

[Unnamed Commentator]

Group that's out there. I haven't read it. I don't want to read it purposely. I'm not going to read it. This was a group of people that got together, they came up with some ideas, I guess, some good, some bad.

[Scott Detrow]

Now the federal government is running off many of those ideas. And last week, Trump intertwined his administration and the Heritage foundation even more. His new nominee for Commissioner of Labor Statistics is E.J. antone, the think tank's chief economist.

[Unnamed Commentator]

Trump nominated a new person to head the Bureau of Labor Statistics, E.J. antone, who's an economist from the conservative Heritage Foundation. That choice got immediate blowback from economists on both the left and the right.

[Scott Detrow]

The appointment surprised so many people because the BLS is traditionally nonpartisan, a data driven agency. Consider this the Heritage foundation has the ear of President Trump, and some of its staff are taking on positions within his administration. After the break, a scholar who has studied the group talks about its origins and how Heritage has worked to align itself with the Trump administration in recent years. From npr, I'm Scott Detrow.

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[Scott Detrow]

It's Consider this from NPR the Bureau of Labor Statistics has long been an organization defined by its objectivity and separation from party politics. That is until President Trump fired its head after BLS released an economic report he didn't like. Now Trump wants the Heritage Foundation's top economist to run the bureau. We wanted to learn more about the think tank in this moment and why it's playing such a key role in a changing Washington, D.C. that's why we've brought in E.J. fagan, a political science professor at the University of Illinois in Chicago. He's also the author of the book the the Rise of Partisan Think Tanks and the Polarization of American Politics. He's looked specifically at the changes at the Heritage foundation in recent years.

[E.J. Fagan]

The Heritage foundation is a think tank. It is the leading conservative think tank. It's one of the largest think tanks in Washington, D.C. it's been around for about 50 years and through most of that time has been one of the most important organizations backing the conservative side of the Republican Party.

[Scott Detrow]

Before we get to everything that's happening right now, is there one specific moment.

[E.J. Fagan]

You could point to where the Heritage foundation starts to make the shift from.

[Scott Detrow]

A Mitt Romney, George W. Bush style.

[E.J. Fagan]

Conservative organization to fully embracing the current maga, Republican Trump era party?

I can although I'd say I don't think they ever were truly on the George W. Bush, Mitt Romney side. I think it was the Newt Gingrich, Ronald Reagan side what you'd point to, and they very often were on the outs with certain types of Republicans. The Republican Party is a coalition and they were a piece of that coalition. But I think the moment that you see this real shift, there's a leadership transition in 2013 when kind of the old guard of the Heritage foundation that had founded it, their president, Ed Fullner, who recently died, leaves, retires and Jim DeMint, Republican senator, actually retires from the Senate in order to take a very large salary to be the new president of the Heritage foundation. And you see this rapid shift from that organization kind of beginning at that point.

[Scott Detrow]

Yeah. So what's the best way to think about the relationship right now between Heritage.

[E.J. Fagan]

And the Trump administration? So much focus was made on Project 2025.

[Scott Detrow]

But what's the way to think about how they're interacting with each other? Who's taking cues from who?

[E.J. Fagan]

Sure. I think that the Heritage foundation is playing a role for Donald Trump in that his first administration was staffed by kind of the coalition of the Republican Party, a lot of people who had worked in previous Republican administrations who were pretty well qualified for their jobs, and some people from Heritage's side of the Republican Party. And that was very normal for a Republican Party administration. And what Heritage did with Project 2025 is they organized a Trump administration that could just elbow out pretty much the entire other side of the party, the Mitt Romney side of the party, the George W. Bush side of the party.

[Scott Detrow]

Like, what's the chicken and egg way.

[E.J. Fagan]

To think about this?

[Scott Detrow]

Was this Heritage seeing what Trump's inner.

[E.J. Fagan]

Orbit wanted to do and putting policy.

[Scott Detrow]

Scaffolding around it or suggesting, like, if you get back in office, start here. Here's some ideas.

[E.J. Fagan]

I think there's less policy scaffolding than Heritage would want you to believe. Right now, the bargain that Heritage has been making, really, since about 2022 or so, is that they're willing to be the lowest common denominator. Right. They're willing to be the organization that enables a more authoritarian Republican Party.

What's one or two specific examples you would point to?

Sure. I mean, if you read Project 2025, I mean, arguing for the complete abolishing of whole cabinet departments, it's arguing for its employing people who are at January 6th. It is just as somebody who's read a lot of Heritage foundation reports over the decades, I mean, it really becomes much more of an advocacy group. Right. You start seeing much more op eds about radical change, for example, in 2017, 2018. They're not publishing things that are pro tariff. E.J. antoni, who is the BLS commissioner nominee from the Heritage foundation, he's publishing what are essentially blog posts praising Donald Trump, calling him a genius for tariffs. Right. That's a real shift, and it's a shift away from what we would traditionally think of a Ronald Reagan conservatism at Heritage.

Yeah, let's talk about him for a moment. We noted this in the intro. You just noted it now. He has now been tapped to take over the Bureau of Labor Statistics. There is an opening because President Trump fired the head of BLS because he did not like the monthly economic data that was published by bls, which raised a lot of alarms because this is supposed to be nonpartisan data that we can all trust. And Trump is signaling he doesn't want it to be that. How are you thinking about this nomination given the context of how it happened?

And Tony is incredibly unqualified for that job. I mean, I think it's a sign of the decline of Heritage that they couldn't find somebody better. BLS is a real job. Right. The BLS commissioner is responsible for gathering data. I mean, this is not a traditional hack, highly political position for a reason. I think he's going to be a disaster over there. It's already an understaffed department, a department that got hit very hard in the first part of 2025. And I'm just very skeptical that they're going to continue putting out the Current Population Survey, which is one of the most important data sets in not just the study of American economics, but of the actual practice of American economics.

I think you've touched on this here and there, but what do you think the role of a think tank is in a world where the people in charge don't have much respect for expertise?

I think the. It depends on the think tank, Right. So the premise of the Heritage foundation was always that the experts are wrong, and we're going to give you the other answer. The idea being that, you know, the Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford and Republicans in Congress in the 1970s, they're talking to the same people Democrats are talking to. They're coming up with very similar ideas. And so, you know, they go out and they betray conservatives. And so we're going to provide you experts, people who can give you a conservative answer to a question, not. Not the answer that those experts who we think are liberal are going to give you. The dangerous thing is that they're still an influential organization. And so they've replaced the real policy wonks with enablers. And I think that's. That's really. If I were. If I were, you know, you know, someone who's concerned about the conservative policy world, I'd be very concerned about that. I think that it's actually, in some ways, they're both their strongest and their weakest right now.

[Scott Detrow]

E.J. fagan is a political science professor and author of the book the the Rise of Partisan Think Tanks and the Polarization of American Politics. We reached out to the White House for comment on Fagan's criticisms of E.J. antony Trump's pick for BLS commissioner. A spokesperson sent a response which reads in part, quote, antoni's education and vast experience as an economist has prepared him to produce accurate public data. In addition to being the chief economist at the Heritage foundation, he has frequently testified before Congress on economic issues. His research has been featured by many think tanks and advocacy groups. This episode was produced by Jordan Marie Smith and Henry Larson. It was edited by Tinby Ermeus. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

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