When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?

Summary

Consider This: Are Federal Judges Above the Law? Consider This from NPR • Released March 3, 2025

In this compelling episode of NPR's Consider This, host Ari Shapiro delves into the troubling issue of harassment within the federal judiciary, questioning whether federal judges operate above the law. Through the harrowing account of an unnamed Alaska law clerk and extensive interviews with experts and affected individuals, the episode uncovers systemic problems in how the federal court system addresses sexual harassment and bullying.

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1. The Unfolding of a Harrowing Experience

The episode opens with the story of a recent law school graduate who began her career as a law clerk for a federal judge in Alaska amidst the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

• Ari Shapiro [00:00]: Introduces the law clerk's prestigious position and her hopes for a thriving career.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [00:13]: Describes the clerkship as "kind of like a unicorn," emphasizing its significance on her resume.

Initially optimistic, the law clerk quickly finds herself isolated, with the judge assuming multiple roles—from boss to colleague—granting him immense power over her professional and personal life.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [00:30]: States, "The judge was everything. He had all the power."

2. Escalation of Harassment

The situation deteriorates as the judge begins inappropriate behavior, including constant texting and intrusive conversations about his personal life.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [00:42]: Recounts, "There was a lot of talk... about sexual relationships."

By summer 2022, the harassment intensifies, culminating in a serious sexual assault incident that propels her to resign.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [01:18]: Shares, "That was the breaking point for me, where I decided I needed to leave."

Despite leaving the clerkship, her attempt to continue her career as a federal prosecutor does not shield her from ongoing repercussions.

3. A System Failing to Protect

NPR's justice correspondent, Kerry Johnson, reveals through investigative reporting that the voice of the law clerk is a composite, protecting her identity out of fear.

• Kerry Johnson [02:36]: Notes the challenges in recounting such traumatic experiences, leading to the use of a voice actor.

The episode details the judge's continued harassment, including a subsequent encounter at a party that led to sexual assault.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [05:30]: Describes the assault as "completely awful" and the ensuing trauma.

The federal judiciary's investigation into Judge Joshua Kindred unfolds, highlighting a process that questions the victim's credibility without conclusively addressing the assault itself.

• Congresswoman Norma Torres [06:09]: References a 9th Circuit report and the potential for impeachment due to "sexual misconduct with a clerk."

• Unnamed Law Clerk [06:59]: Affirms, "I was sexually assaulted," expressing disillusionment with the investigation's outcomes.

4. Legislative Efforts for Accountability

The episode shifts focus to the broader implications within the federal court system, emphasizing a pervasive culture of fear and lack of protective measures for clerks.

• Kerry Johnson [07:21]: Discusses the Administrative Office of the Courts' claims of progress since the MeToo movement, juxtaposed with ongoing issues uncovered by the investigation.

Prominent lawmakers are introduced as they attempt to address these systemic failures.

• Congresswoman Norma Torres [08:38]: Criticizes the lack of oversight, stating, "people in power with no oversight get to sweep people and problems under the rug."

• Congressman Hank Johnson [09:34]: Describes the Judiciary Accountability Act, aiming to extend legal protections to the 30,000 federal court employees.

• Congressman Hank Johnson [09:42]: Emphasizes the importance of this legislation as "a very important step to bring about some accountability."

Despite these efforts, the bill did not receive a hearing before Congress adjourned last year, leaving federal court workers without essential protections.

5. The Cultural and Structural Challenges

The episode delves deeper into the entrenched power dynamics and cultural issues that impede accountability within the judiciary.

• Jamie Baker [07:21]: Shares insights from a former judge, highlighting the distinct power differentials between judges and clerks.

• Gabe Roth [08:10]: As executive director of Fix the Court, he advocates for increased accountability within the federal courts.

The average age disparity between judges (average age 65-68) and clerks (ages 26-30) further exacerbates the imbalance of power, making it challenging for young clerks to assert themselves.

• Kerry Johnson [08:33]: Highlights this age and power gap as a significant barrier to addressing misconduct.

Aliza Shotsman from the Legal Accountability Project underscores the judiciary's exemption from Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, leaving clerks with no legal recourse against harassment or retaliation.

• Congresswoman Norma Torres [10:01]: States, "The federal judiciary is outrageously exempt from Title VII of the Civil Rights act of 1964."

6. Personal and Professional Toll

The cumulative effect of harassment and the lack of supportive mechanisms take a severe toll on clerks' mental health and career trajectories.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [05:30]: Discusses seeking therapy to cope with the assault and its aftermath.

• Kerry Johnson [10:19]: Illustrates the personal struggles of clerks, many of whom "break down in tears" when discussing hostile work environments.

The judiciary's internal protection of its members fosters an environment where misconduct remains an "open secret," perpetuating silence and fear among clerks.

• Unnamed Law Clerk [10:19]: Shares, "I just wish more people would talk about it."

7. Conclusion: The Need for Reform

The episode concludes by emphasizing the urgent need for systemic reform to protect clerks and hold judges accountable.

• Kerry Johnson [11:19]: Summarizes the judiciary's tendency to protect its own, highlighting the critical gaps in the system.

• Congressman Hank Johnson [09:34]: Reiterates the significance of legislative measures to ensure accountability.

Consider This leaves listeners with a sobering understanding of the challenges faced by those working within the federal court system and the imperative for meaningful change to prevent abuses of power.

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Production Credits:

• Produced by Monika Avstatieva and Elena Burnett
• Edited by Barry Hardiman, Chris Krishnadev Kalimore, and Courtney Dorning
• Executive Producer: Sammy Yenigun

Source: This summary is based on the transcript provided from the NPR episode “When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?” aired on March 3, 2025.

Transcript

[Ari Shapiro]

In 2020, as the coronavirus pandemic began to shut things down, a recent law school graduate started a new job all the way across the country in Alaska. She accepted a coveted post as law clerk for a federal judge.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

It's kind of like a unicorn. It's a position that follows you for the rest of your life. It's on the top of your resume. It's, you know, people pay attention to it, especially a federal court clerkship.

[Ari Shapiro]

The clerk hoped this job would jumpstart her career. She didn't know anyone else there, only the judge.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

The judge was the HR department. The judge was my boss. The judge was a colleague. The judge was everything. He had all the power.

[Ari Shapiro]

He started testing her boundaries early on.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

It started immediately, the inappropriate conversations. There was a lot of talk, you know, about the judge's personal relationships, about sexual relationships.

[Ari Shapiro]

She says she thought it was part of her job to listen to the judge and help him with anything. He was going through a divorce and he began to text her constantly to the point where her phone felt like an electric leash.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

You know, I never had respite from being just a few text messages away from him. It was constant. It was during work, it was after work. It was all the time that pressure built.

[Ari Shapiro]

In the summer of 2022, things got worse.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

That's when he told me he'd been communicating with this prosecutor that was appearing before him and she had been sending nude photos. And that was the breaking point for me, where I decided I needed to leave.

[Ari Shapiro]

She stayed in Alaska, but she got a new job as a federal prosecutor. And this, she hoped, would put an end to the ordeal. As it turned out, that was wrong. Consider this. People who work for the federal court system don't have the same kinds of job protections that most other Americans do. A nearly year long NPR investigation has found problems with the way the courts police sexual harassment and bullying and a pervasive culture of fear about blowing the whistle. From npr, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's consider this from npr. The voice of the Alaska law clerk you heard before the break was not her real voice, although those are her words verbatim. We used a voice actor because she was too afraid to talk. I'll turn it over to NPR's justice correspondent, Kerry Johnson to help you understand why. And a warning. This piece contains a description of sexual assault.

[Kerry Johnson]

About a week after she left the judge's chamber, she ran into him at a party. I'm going to tell the next part of the story entirely from allegations in the court papers. That's in part because retelling it to me was too painful. At the party, he tried to get her to sit next to him on the couch. Eventually she left, but she got a text from him saying he needed to talk to her. It was cold that night, so the judge suggested they chat inside his apartment. Once inside, the judge insisted she come to the bedroom. At first she sat on the corner of the bed, but he wanted her to lay down. Then she told investigators he grabbed her breast. She tried to pull his arm off, but he was really strong. I just remember thinking, like, there's nothing I can do about this, she told the investigators. This is about to happen. Like, I always felt like this thing he could not touch. And finally he felt like he could touch. A judge's control over the future of a young lawyer is real and lasting. With only a phone call, a judge can open doors to a lucrative job at a law firm or shut them permanently. And there's no one really policing what happens inside a judge's chambers beside the judge themselves. Judicial independence and protecting the balance of power give judges a tremendous amount of sway over workplace rules. For nearly a year, I interviewed 42 people, current and former workers within the federal court system, about their experience. They're men and women who work for more than two dozen judges appointed by presidents from both major political parties. I heard from people whose self confidence was shattered by judges who screamed so loudly. Others could hear from the hallways people who were fired after a week or two on the job for no clear reason. Some described sexual harassment like in the case of the Alaska clerk. Many more shared episodes of bullying, and others said they faced discrimination because they had a disability or were pregnant. And things can get pretty tough for clerks who speak out. When the Alaska clerk reported the assault, she told a colleague who had been assigned to mentor her. But that mentor said she also had been coerced.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

When I reported to my mentor, she was also the person that had been sending him nude photos and immediately told him that I reported the sexual assault.

[Kerry Johnson]

Her mentor later said the judge's power and authority contributed to the pressure she felt, and he told her he would have sway over a job she wanted. The former clerk heard from friends. The judge was furious, and when she ran into him, he warned her to keep her head down and shut up.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

The actual sexual assault was awful. I mean, it was completely awful. And you know, I've since sought therapy for that and help. But what happened next was almost worse.

[Kerry Johnson]

The court system ultimately launched an investigation into the judge, Joshua Kindred. What followed were multiple rounds of interviews with investigators who cross examined her and stress tested her credibility. The court investigation took more than a year. All the while, two other young women clerks in the judge's chambers continued to work by his side.

[Congresswoman Norma Torres]

Then in July, now with the 9th Circuit's report released just hours ago, we learned back in May that the judge was told he could face impeachment if he did not resign for what the council concluded was sexual misconduct with a clerk.

[Kerry Johnson]

Judge Joshua Kindred told investigators that the sexual experience was consensual and that he had no sinister intent. The special committee found the judge deliberately lied when he said nothing sexual had happened between them. But the committee did not reach a conclusion about whether the judge sexually assaulted the former clerk, finding there was enough evidence to say the judge committed misconduct without even resolving that issue. Judge Kindred did not respond to NPR's attempts to reach him for comment. The clerk said she felt let down by the process.

[Unnamed Law Clerk]

I was sexually assaulted. I'm not sure why that was a fact in dispute, perhaps not a fact in dispute, but not a conclusion drawn by the report. And I've never wavered on that fact that that was immediately what I reported to the U.S. attorney's.

[Kerry Johnson]

The federal judiciary points to the departure of the Alaska judge as a demonstration. The system works. The Administrative Office of the Courts, which sets policy from Washington, says they've taken extensive steps to protect clerks and other workers since the MeToo movement swept the country in 2017. And they say they hold judges to the highest standards. But our investigation uncovered problems with the reporting system in the judicial branch. For one, there's a widespread culture of fear and there's a good reason for that. Jamie Baker's a former judge who also worked in the White House and the military.

[Congressman Hank Johnson]

The location where I found the power differential the most distinct was when I was serving as a judge with law clerks. And I think that's something worth noting.

[Kerry Johnson]

Not only is the relationship intense, it often comes with a huge age gap. Gabe Roth is executive director of Fix the Court. He's pushing the federal courts to be more accountable.

[Ari Shapiro]

Judges are life tenured. The average age of federal judges right now is about 65 or 68 law clerks. They are roughly, let's say, 26 to 30.

[Kerry Johnson]

Another person pushing for change is Congresswoman Norma Torres, a Democrat from California.

[Congresswoman Norma Torres]

Well, good morning, everyone. It's good to see all of you here.

[Kerry Johnson]

Last fall, she convened a group of experts on the Hill to try to draw attention to the problem.

[Congresswoman Norma Torres]

I don't need to be a lawyer to know that people in power with no oversight get to sweep people and problems under the rug.

[Kerry Johnson]

Torres says the courts operate in a patchwork, so no one's in charge of overseeing all the systems that employees use to report misconduct. She's working alongside Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson. Good morning. Pleasure to see you, sir.

[Congressman Hank Johnson]

Great to see you. Also. Thank you all for being here. You ready to go? Okay.

[Kerry Johnson]

Johnson's walking us through the Rayburn House Office Building and into the Capitol to introduce the Judiciary Accountability Act. His bill would make clear the same legal protections for workers in the private sector and the executive branch also apply to the 30,000 people who work for the federal courts.

[Congressman Hank Johnson]

This is just one small step, but a very important step to bring about some accountability.

[Kerry Johnson]

The legislation did not get a hearing before Congress left town last year. The people who work for federal judges, for probation departments, for public defenders, they can't go to the executive branch for help. And it's not clear they can sue in courts either. Aliza Shotsman runs the Legal Accountability Project.

[Congresswoman Norma Torres]

The federal judiciary is outrageously exempt from Title VII of the Civil Rights act of 1964. That means that if you are a law clerk and you are sexually harassed, fired, retaliated against by a federal judge, you have no legal recourse.

[Kerry Johnson]

The federal courts say they've done a lot to make sure workers are treated with dignity and respect. But I've been told clerks who run into trouble on the job still face tremendous pressure to remain silent. A bad word from a judge can derail a clerk's career while judges serve for life. I heard it again and again, those judges who behave badly. Often it's an open secret inside the courthouse, but nobody does anything about it. Many clerks graduated from top law schools and pride themselves on their smarts and resilience, only to break down in tears when they talk about hostile treatment they suffered working for federal judges. The judiciary protects its own, one clerk told me. Another said, I can handle a tough boss. I can't handle an abusive boss. I just wish more people would talk about it.

[Ari Shapiro]

That was NPR justice correspondent Kerry Johnson. This episode was produced by Monika Avstatieva and Elena Burnett. It was edited by Barry Hardiman, Chris Krishnadev Kalimore and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Ari Shapiro.