Scott Detrow (3:41)

It's Consider this from npr. And if it feels like you're seeing more older drivers behind the wheel, it's not your imagination. Americans are keeping their driver's licenses longer than ever. So how long is too long? And who decides? NPR's Joel Rose has been looking into that question and joins us now. Hi, Joel.

Joel Rose (3:59)

Hey, Scott.

Scott Detrow (4:00)

So let's start with a basic question. What are the laws when it comes to older drivers? We mentioned that there's no national standard, but walk me through what some of the state laws look like.

Joel Rose (4:08)

It's really a patchwork. There was a big push to tighten the rules around relicensing starting about 20 years ago. Some states may made it easier for relatives, police and doctors to report potentially unsafe drivers, and some added mandatory vision testing or more frequent visits to the DMV to renew licenses in person. But many states still don't require any of that. And lately some states have even been moving to dial back some of their requirements.

Scott Detrow (4:33)

You spoke to the Zudrow family, who we heard from a few minutes ago after losing their son. Their position is that there has to be some sort of mechanism here to cut off drivers whose abilities have been impaired with age. I'm curious, how common is that point of view?

Joel Rose (4:47)

Yeah, they want to see tougher relicensing standards and more accountability for older drivers who are involved in crashes. And there are many safety advocates who would agree with that. You know, we get our driver's licenses when we're very young in many cases, and then we often just keep them without ever having to pass another test. Some older adults do give up driving voluntarily, but many are reluctant because they depend on driving to get around. So it can be really difficult to find this balance between safety and mobility.

Scott Detrow (5:15)

You also talk to older drivers and you talk to people who advocate for them. Walk me through their argument for this.

Joel Rose (5:22)

They say the right to drive should be based on ability, not age. I talked to a lawmaker in Illinois named Jeff Kiker. He is a Republican state representative there. Illinois, by The Way has some of, if not the strictest relicensing rules in the country. It's the only state that requires older drivers to take a behind the wheel test in their 70s. Kuiker is a co sponsor of a new law that will loosen that restriction. There starting this summer, seniors should not

Scott Detrow (5:48)

be subjected to additional licensing requirements just because they had a birthday. It's an ageist policy and it needs to be thrown out.

Joel Rose (5:58)

And the reality is that in many parts of the US Older adults do not have good alternatives to driving. This is especially true right in rural areas where public transit and ride sharing are, are not viable for most people. But even in a lot of suburban America, giving up your license means losing a huge amount of independence.

Scott Detrow (6:16)

I think a lot of us can probably think about personal anecdotes in their life when it comes to older drivers that they knew. I know that I can. But what does the big picture data say like is, do we have a sense? Are older drivers more dangerous?

Joel Rose (6:28)

It's complicated. If you look at crash rates for older drivers, they have generally been falling for the last 25 years. I talked about this with Ann Dickerson. She is a professor of occupational therapy and, and an expert on older drivers at East Carolina University. And Dickerson says it's hard to put an exact age on when older drivers should have to face additional testing to renew their licenses because Americans are just living longer and aging better than ever before.

Jacqueline Hamilton (6:52)

The research has shown people between 70 and 79 are actually pretty safe. They have really come down from crashes. Now part of it's decreased risk because they're not going to work every day. They self restrict.

Joel Rose (7:05)

But if you compare older drivers to everyone else on the road, you get a different picture. Younger drivers are the most risky by far. Teenagers, even people in their 20s, those are the riskiest drivers. Drivers from 30 to 80 are the safest. But when you get to 80 and above those crash rates do start to climb.

Scott Detrow (7:24)

Again, you mentioned before that some states have actually loosened, not tightened their restrictions. How has that gone?

Joel Rose (7:29)

There really is not a ton of evidence either way. But there is one study that came out last year from the University of Iowa College of Public Health to the lead author Kara Haaman. And she wondered how those changes were affecting road safety. So she looked at some data and what she found troubled her.

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We are seeing increases in injury rates and crash rates with some of these policies loosening. Maybe not across all age groups, but among the ages that probably we're most worried about. You know, among the older drivers, that's what we found.

Joel Rose (8:01)

Haman's research looked at two decades of data from 13 states. More than 19 million drivers who were involved in crashes. Seven of those states loosened their relicensing policies during that time. And in those states, the study found an increase in crash rates among drivers between 65 and 74. Now, I should also add Haman is very sympathetic to older adults who do not have good alternatives to driving. She says we really need to think of better ways for them to get around and not just about taking away their mobility.

Scott Detrow (8:30)

At the same time, as we're talking about all of this, transportation and technology are changing so quickly. We are seeing this push towards self driving cars as a commonplace reality. Curious what you think that could change about all of this for older drivers.

Joel Rose (8:46)

In some ways, changing technology in our cars is already making a difference. There are more older drivers on the road, they're driving more miles. And yet we are seeing crash rates decline. In part that could be because of the safety features in our cars that are getting better. And that might be helping older drivers to compensate for some of the loss of vision and reaction time that are inevitable with age. And it's possible that we could see that accelerate if self driving cars do become a bigger part of our lives.

Scott Detrow (9:14)

So far we've been talking about public policy and laws, but I think we all know that when it comes to older drivers, a lot of the times this just comes down to a family conversation. And it can be a really hard and a really tense family conversation. I know you talk to people who have had those conversations. What did you find?

Joel Rose (9:32)

Yeah, we did an online call out asking our audience for their experiences. And we got a lot of responses from a lot of adult children who told us it often falls to them to decide when it is time to take the car keys away from an aging parent. And that's how I met Jacqueline Hamilton.

Jacqueline Hamilton (9:48)

He's my dad. He taught me how to take care of my cars. So doing this was very hard.

Joel Rose (9:55)

Hamilton agreed to share her family's story. So we all sat down in her living room. West St. Paul, Minnesota. Hamilton says she talked to her father, James Stubbs, who is 94, and she tried to convince him that it was time to stop driving, but that did not work.

Scott Detrow (10:08)

Tell me, when have I made a mistake in driving?

Jacqueline Hamilton (10:12)

I listed them, dad.

Joel Rose (10:13)

Hamilton was so concerned that she filed the paperwork to formally request a driver's exam for her father. And that meant he would have to pass some tests, including a cognitive test, to keep his license. And it did not go well.

Jacqueline Hamilton (10:26)

He can't understand directions. He couldn't remember the day, year, the day of the week were all wrong.

Joel Rose (10:33)

Do you remember this test? Remember taking the test?

Scott Detrow (10:35)

Oh yeah, I remember the test. You try them? Yeah, come on. Anyone. You can try it. I said this is ridiculous.

Joel Rose (10:45)

The state officially revoked Stubbs driver's license. But he still had the physical plastic card which did not look like it had expired. And he did not want to surrender the keys. Hamilton wasn't sure what to do until an opportunity presented itself a few months ago while her father was in the hospital and her mother was visiting.

Jacqueline Hamilton (11:03)

And I happened to look in her purse and I saw both sets of keys. That was a pivotal moment. I could take the keys or I could not take the keys. The hard part was if I didn't take the keys, then anything that would happen after that point would be my fault. If they got into a car accident, it wouldn't be blood on their hands, it would be blood on mine.

Joel Rose (11:29)

That was four months ago. Hamilton says her dad is still mad at her. But also she says she would do it all again.

Scott Detrow (11:35)

I guess not mad enough that they couldn't be in the same room talking about it though.

Joel Rose (11:39)

You know, there's definitely still love there. It's pretty clear when you're in the room with them. Yeah, but it's also clear that he's still pretty angry.

Scott Detrow (11:47)

Fair. One thing I wanted to ask about was that you reported that a lot of adult children took this step. They got to a place where their parents had to pass these tests to keep or regain their licenses. And a lot of them passed. And I'm curious, what do you think that says about what the policies are and whether any of this is actually meaningful?

Joel Rose (12:08)

I mean, it's a great question. I think this can be a very emotionally charged issue for all of the reasons that we've been talking about. And there are some doctors and police officers and DMV workers who. Who will make it their business to get involved and to say look, it is time to stop driving. But I'm sure there are many others who think that is not their place. That this is a question for the family to answer. And those family members may have a clearer sense, you know, of what is really going on behind the wheel, for better or worse.

Scott Detrow (12:40)

Joel, one other thing I was wondering about. You have an incredibly busy beat transportation. We are talking at the end of the week where there was another fatal plane crash on a Runway. And almost every airport in America has hours long security lines because the TSA funding right now just as one example of things you're covering why to you was this an important story to take the time and report out?

Joel Rose (13:02)

Because for all the attention that we pay to aviation, it is the safest form of travel and getting in our cars. The statistics bear this out. It is one of the most dangerous things we do on a daily basis. And this is not a sexy topic necessarily, but it's one that I feel like a lot of families are grappling with kind of quietly and out of sight. And once we did the call out and the stories started coming in, that made it feel important to push through and to get it on the air.

Scott Detrow (13:30)

That is NPR transportation reporter Joel Rose. Thanks so much for your reporting.

Joel Rose (13:33)

You're welcome.

Scott Detrow (13:35)

And before we go, a plug. You can join our colleagues at NPR's National Security Podcast, Sources and Methods for a live virtual event on March 31. Host Mary Louise Kelly and reporter Craig Myre will talk about the latest news from Iran covering the intelligence community, and they will answer your questions about Iran and the national security beat. To get your invite, you can just sign up for npr. You'll receive a registration link by the end of this week, and your membership supports the reporting that you hear on this show every day. You can sign up now at plus.npr.org and watch your email. That's plus.npr.org this episode was produced by Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Damien Herring, Tiffany Vera Castro and Hannah Glovna. It was edited by William Troup and Russell Lewis. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's good sitter this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow. This message comes from US Bank Simplify how you do business with Business Essentials, a powerful combination of no monthly maintenance fee, checking and card payment processing. Deposit products are offered by US Bank national association member fdic.

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