Who gets to decide when the President sues his own government?

Summary

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Consider This from NPR: Who Gets to Decide When the President Sues His Own Government?

Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Scott Detrow
Reporters: Kerry Johnson, Tamara Keith
Guests/Experts: Ed Whelan, Rupa Bhattacharya

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the unprecedented situation of President Donald Trump suing his own administration for billions in damages. The hosts explore Trump’s long-standing litigiousness, the legal mechanisms for such a case, the substantial conflict of interest in the President controlling both sides of the suit, and what this could mean for taxpayers and the rule of law.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump's History of Suing

• Trump has a decades-long track record of turning to the courts, dating back to the 1970s.
• Examples highlighted include:
  • Suing the US government for defamation and $100 million in 1973 after being accused of racial discrimination. (00:19)
  • Leading an antitrust suit against the NFL as the owner of the New Jersey Generals in the 1980s. (00:09)
  • Frequent lawsuits and countersuits against media outlets (CNN, ABC, CBS, WSJ, NYT, BBC) and individuals like E. Jean Carroll. (01:25, 01:47)

Notable Quote:

“The president, the former president and once again President Donald Trump spends a lot of time with lawyers.”
— Scott Detrow, 01:01

2. Trump vs. His Own Administration

• Trump is now suing the U.S. Justice and Treasury Departments, arguing he's owed billions due to:
  • DOJ investigations (e.g., Mar-a-Lago FBI search)
  • The 2019 leak of his tax returns by an IRS contractor
• Trump filed a claim for $230 million in damages, and a separate $10 billion lawsuit over the IRS leak. (04:39, 08:00)

Notable Quote:

“You know, I brought a... lawsuit and I’m winning the lawsuit. There’s only one problem. I’m the one that has to settle it. In other words, I am suing and I’m the one that’s supposed to settle it. So maybe I'll give myself $1 billion and give it all to charity. Does that make sense?”
— Donald Trump, 02:08

3. The Legal Process & Unprecedented Conflict of Interest

• Ordinary claims against the federal government (e.g., traffic accidents, malpractice) are adjudicated by career DOJ lawyers and rarely pay out more than $10 million. Trump’s $230 million claim is unprecedented. (05:42, 06:15)
• Trump, as president, could influence the outcome and settlement of his own lawsuit.
• DOJ officials in the chain of command include his former personal legal team, raising profound ethical issues.

Notable Quotes:

“There is a glaring conflict of interest in Trump being on both sides of the claim.”
— Ed Whelan, former DOJ lawyer, 06:49

“It is completely outrageous that he and those answering to him would be deciding how the government responds to these extravagant claims.”
— Ed Whelan, 07:03

4. Potential for Abuse and Taxpayer Impact

• Trump promises to donate any winnings to charity, but this would still come from taxpayer funds.
• Settlement payouts come from the Judgment Fund, a taxpayer-funded reserve, making Americans liable if Trump’s claims succeed. (09:29)
• Experts say Trump’s damage claims far exceed precedent and may not be legally viable, pointing to statutory time limits and questionable merit. (08:14)

Notable Exchange:

“You’re suing the federal government about your taxes? I’m wondering, is it fair to ask the American people to pay for that?”
— Kerry Johnson, 10:23

“Well, anything I win, I’m going to give 100% to charity.”
— Donald Trump, 10:27

“But that still takes it from the American people.”
— Kerry Johnson, 10:29

5. Political and Institutional Implications

• The episode closes by questioning the fairness and optics of a sitting president possibly negotiating with himself over legal settlements.
• The lack of clear safeguards or recusal mechanisms worries watchdogs and former officials.

Memorable Moment:

“The fear that many have is that the Department of Justice will simply fold and ask Donald Trump, the individual, how much money Donald Trump’s administration should funnel to him.”
— Ed Whelan, 07:29

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Trump viewed it as a violation, an attack, the weaponization of the government against him. So he filed a claim with the justice department seeking $230 million in damages.” — Kerry Johnson, 04:39

• “$230 million would be by an order of magnitude greater than any administrative settlement the department has ever agreed to in a federal Tort Claims act case.” — Kerry Johnson, 06:15

• “In any circumstance, all officials at the DOJ follow the guidance of career ethics officials.” — Justice Department spokesperson (via Kerry Johnson), 09:08

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Trump's long history with lawsuits: 00:00-01:52
• Trump now suing his own government & conflict of interest: 02:08-05:23
• How damages are typically handled by DOJ, and the uniqueness of Trump’s claim: 05:42-06:49
• Ed Whelan on conflict of interest, DOJ chain of command: 06:49-07:29
• The judgment fund & taxpayer implications: 09:29-10:27
• Direct challenge to Trump about burdening taxpayers: 10:23-10:34
• Wrap-up on impact and lack of White House clarity: 10:34-10:59

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Tone & Language

• The tone is straightforward and probing, with reporters and guests raising critical questions and directly challenging the president’s explanations.
• Trump’s own quips—sometimes glib, sometimes self-amused—are contrasted with serious constitutional and ethical concerns voiced by the reporters and legal experts.

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Summary: Key Takeaways

• President Trump suing his own government is legally unprecedented and fraught with ethical concerns, especially regarding conflict of interest.
• His claims—far exceeding any previous federal settlements—would be taxpayer funded, heightening political and public scrutiny.
• Legal experts and former DOJ officials warn that the lack of clear recusal or oversight makes the situation “completely outrageous” and a potential threat to public trust in the justice process.
• Despite Trump’s pledges to donate winnings, the episode suggests both the practical risks to taxpayers and the broader dangers to the separation of powers and rule of law.

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Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

Over the course of his adult life, President Donald Trump and his companies have been involved in thousands of lawsuits. You might even call him litigious.

[Donald Trump]

I think we have a case that's going to be not only very interesting, but a case that we're going to win. The way that they've established themselves, the practices that they've used are going to be brought out very strongly in the case.

[Scott Detrow]

That's Trump speaking to ABC's Good Morning America back in 1984. At the time, he owned the New Jersey Generals, a team in the USFL, the U.S. football League. TRUMP led fellow owners in filing an antitrust suit against the rival National Football League. That pattern of behavior turning to the courts has been playing out for at least five decades. Back in 1973, Trump countersued the U.S. department of justice for defamation and $100 million. That came after Trump, his father and their company were accused of racial discrimination under the Fair Housing Act. Trump. Trump's suit was dismissed, and the Justice Department settled with Trump, his father and his company a couple of years later. The suits and the countersuits continued steadily all the way from when the real estate magnate became a candidate. The president, the former president and once again President Donald Trump spends a lot of time with lawyers.

[Donald Trump]

She said that I did something to her that never took place. There was no anything. I know nothing about this nut job.

[Scott Detrow]

That's from a deposition President Trump gave back in 2022. The writer, E. Jean Carroll, successfully sued Trump for defamation and sexual assault. Trump later filed a countersuit saying Carroll defamed him. The President has also sued cnn, abc, cbs, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and most recently, the BBC. Here's President Trump in November.

[Donald Trump]

Well, we'll sue them. We'll sue them for anywhere between a billion and $5 billion.

[Scott Detrow]

Accusing the British broadcasting giant of defamation for the way it edited Trump's January 6th speech. The network apologized, but said it will not be paying damages. Now President Trump is suing his own administration. Here he is giving a speech in North Carolina.

[Donald Trump]

You know, I brought a lusted and I'm winning the lawsuit. There's only one problem. I'm the one that has to settle it. In other words, I am suing and I'm the one that's supposed to settle it. So maybe I'll give myself $1 billion and give it all to charity. Does that make sense? You know, I'll give it to charity. Do you have any nice charities?

[Scott Detrow]

Consider this. President Donald Trump has always turned to the courts. Now he is turning on his own treasury and Justice Departments. So what does it mean to be on both sides of these legal claims? Coming up, how the president is trying to make the case that his own government owes him billions. From npr, I'm Scott Detrow.

[Donald Trump]

This week on up first from NPR News, funding ran out for the Department of Homeland Security and Congress went home.

[Scott Detrow]

DHS does a few important things like.

[Donald Trump]

Secure the airports or the coasts or the president. Now their funding is uncertain. And what does this say about the way Congress works or doesn't?

[Scott Detrow]

Follow us for the latest each morning.

[Donald Trump]

On up first on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kerry Johnson]

On NPR's Wild Card podcast, Oscar nominee Wagner Mora on keeping his values on his path to success.

[Ed Whelan]

There were moments where I was like.

[Scott Detrow]

Oh, I really need that money, man. Right?

[Donald Trump]

You know, but I'm like, I can't do this.

[Ed Whelan]

I can't do that because otherwise I'll be miserable.

[Kerry Johnson]

Watch or listen to that Wild Card conversation on the NPR app or on YouTube. P rwildcard.

[Scott Detrow]

It's Consider this from npr. Of all the ways President Trump has pushed the bounds of executive power, one stands out to lawyers and watchdogs. Trump wants the government that he leads to pay him billions of dollars. Trump has filed multiple claims arguing that he has been hurt by Justice Department investigations and the leak of his tax returns years ago. NPR's Kerry Johnson and Tamara Keith report.

[Kerry Johnson]

President Trump was in North Carolina nearing the end of a speech about the economy when out of nowhere, he started talking about the FBI search of his Florida resort in 2022.

[Donald Trump]

I had these animals trying to attack me at Mar A Lago. They went into my wife's closet.

[Ed Whelan]

Agents were on the hunt for classified documents. The FBI seized papers from a bathroom, a ballroom and an office.

[Kerry Johnson]

Trump viewed it as a violation, an attack, the weaponization of the government against him. So he filed a claim with the justice department seeking $230 million in damages.

[Donald Trump]

And they do say that, you know, it's never been a case like this. Donald Trump sues the United States of America. Donald Trump becomes president, and now Donald Trump has to settle.

[Kerry Johnson]

The suit Trump was out of office with when the claim was first filed. But then he won the 2024 election, the charges against him were dropped, and now Trump finds himself on both sides of the dispute.

[Donald Trump]

But isn't that a strange position to be in? I've got to make a deal. I negotiate with myself.

[Ed Whelan]

There's a process in place at the Justice Department for people who say they've been harmed by the federal Government. In the normal course of business, those claims get evaluated by career lawyers. They rarely involve high profile criminal investigations like Trump's. Rupa Paticheria worked in that DOJ office for years.

[Kerry Johnson]

Some of them are run of the mill, right? Postal vehicles get into traffic accidents. VA doctors have malpractice claims brought against them. People slip and fall in federal buildings.

[Ed Whelan]

Even in the most serious cases, like the ones that involved the attack on 9 11. She says the U.S. government almost never paid out more than $10 million. President Trump wants a lot more than that. 23 times for the Justice Department investigations against him, probes that ended after he won reelection to the White House.

[Kerry Johnson]

$230 million would be by an order of magnitude greater than any administrative settlement the department has ever agreed to in a federal Tort Claims act case.

[Ed Whelan]

Typically, the Justice Department would fight claims in court over the work of its career prosecutors and FBI agents. And in this case, they would have strong legal defenses. After all, a federal judge approved the search of Trump's Mar A Lago property. Find probable cause. And given how much money is at stake in this claim, people at the top of the Justice Department would make the final call.

[Donald Trump]

There is a glaring conflict of interest in Trump being on both sides of the claim.

[Ed Whelan]

That's Ed Whelan. He's a former lawyer for the Justice Department and a political conservative who once clerked for the late Justice Antonin Scalia.

[Donald Trump]

It is completely outrageous that he and those answering to him would be deciding how the government responds to these extravagant claims.

[Ed Whelan]

Those answering to him include the Attorney General and her top deputy. Both of them used to work as President Trump's personal attorneys. The third in command of justice represented Trump's valet, an alleged co conspirator in the Mar A Lago case. Again, Ed Whalen.

[Donald Trump]

The fear that many have is that the Department of Justice will simply fold and ask Donald Trump, the individual, how.

[Scott Detrow]

Much money Donald Trump's administration should funnel to him.

[Kerry Johnson]

In a recent interview with NBC's Tom Yamas, Trump didn't do anything to bat down the suggestion that he would be the final decider.

[Donald Trump]

You're gonna tell him to pay you, though.

[Kerry Johnson]

You're the boss.

[Donald Trump]

Well, what I would do, tell him to pay me, but I'll give 100% of the money to charity.

[Kerry Johnson]

But Trump wasn't just upset about those old Justice Department investigations. He had more scores to settle and. And at the end of January, filed another claim against the federal government, a $10 billion lawsuit over the 2019 leak of his tax returns by an IRS.

[Ed Whelan]

Contractor experts in tax law say that case has some big flaws. For one thing, the statute of limitations seems to have expired. What's more, the leak took place during Trump's first term in office. So the president is suing the government for actions when he was in charge.

[Kerry Johnson]

Congressional Democrats put pressed top administration officials about this in recent weeks, including Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who was questioned by New Jersey Senator Andy Kim.

[Ed Whelan]

He even said, I am supposed to work out a settlement with myself.

[Scott Detrow]

That's what Trump said. Do you think that that is a conflict of interest, that that is a Justice Department issue?

[Donald Trump]

No, it is suing your department.

[Scott Detrow]

The Justice Department represents Treasury. I would suggest you contact Justice.

[Kerry Johnson]

Good luck with that. In a separate hearing, the head of the Department of Justice, Attorney General Pam Bondi, didn't shine any additional light.

[Ed Whelan]

I'm not going to discuss pending litigation, a Justice Department spokesperson told npr. In any circumstance, all officials at the DOJ follow the guidance of career ethics officials. So if DOJ does approve a settlement, where would this money come from? Rupa Bhattacharya explains. It's something called the judgment fund, which.

[Kerry Johnson]

Is a taxpayer funded pot of money, which means that the American people are on the hook for these claims if liability is assessed against the government. For Trump, filing lawsuits, including those that are frivolous or where he has little chance of success has long been standard operating procedure in these cases, regardless of the merits, he holds all the cards. A White House official tells NPR these suits are unfinished business for Trump. A spokesman for Trump's private legal team said in a statement, quote, president Trump continues to hold those who wrong America and Americans accountable. But what about the American people, taxpayers who will be stuck holding the bag if Trump wins large settlements? I asked the president that during a recent flight on Air Force One. You're suing the federal government about your taxes? Yeah. I'm wondering, is it fair to ask the American people to pay for that?

[Donald Trump]

Well, anything I win, I'm going to give 100% to charity.

[Kerry Johnson]

But that still takes it from the American people.

[Donald Trump]

No, no, because they give money to charity anyway. They give away $40 billion a year to charity. Our government.

[Kerry Johnson]

It's not clear where Trump got that number from. And the White House didn't respond to questions. Seeking clarity at a time when Americans say their top concern is the cost of living and making ends meet, the idea of the president receiving a massive windfall from the government he leads may not sit well with voters even if it is donated to charity. Tamara Keith and Carrie Johnson, NPR News.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Erica Ryan with audio engineering by Damien Herring. It was edited by Anna Yukoninoff, Rebecca Metzler, and Courtney Dornick. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow. Jesse I'm Jesse Thorne. On Bullseye, Yahya Abdul Mateen ii. And the most surprising thing he learned after receiving one of the highest honors in acting.

[Ed Whelan]

I'm so grateful that it happened at that time, because it did not make me happy at all.

[Scott Detrow]

We'll get into that and his many roles, playing various superheroes and villains. That's Bullseye. Find us in the NPR [e-mail] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kerry Johnson]

Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this [e-mail] that's plus.NPR.org.