A (3:17)

It's consider this from N. Yossi Melman is a journalist in Tel Aviv who covers intelligence and strategic affairs. We spoke with him hours after Iranian missiles hit two cities in the southern part of Israel where Israel's nuclear research center is. We wanted to know more about those attacks and how the Israeli government's decapitation strategy is changing the war with Iran. Let me start with getting your reaction to Iran's overnight strikes in southern Israel. They struck near a research center which is widely believed to be connected to Israel's nuclear program. You're based in Israel, what is the feeling there right now?

E (3:53)

Well, actually there was no surprise because all of Israel is basically covered and a target for Iranian ballistic missiles. And one shouldn't forget also for Hezbollah. From Lebanon's missiles they are striking all parts of Israel, including my town this morning there were fragments which hit not far from where I live.

A (4:20)

So if not surprised, what do those strikes tell you about the status of the war?

E (4:25)

That it is becoming a war of attrition with no sight of ending it. Israelis, a lot of Israelis are fatigued. Most Israelis are waking up every night for the last 23 days, three, four, five times a night and running to the shelters. Some of Israelis have shelters in their own houses, but many of the population, nearly 30%, have no shelter at all. So there is a feeling of fatigue, feeling that we don't see an end to it and it's very, very difficult to maintain a daily routine.

A (5:08)

You called it a war of attrition, which you know, I presume is not what Israel wants out of this. Like earlier this week Israel killed two top Iranian leaders, National Security Adviser Ali Larajani and Intelligence Minister Esmael Khatib. They're part of this strategy of so called decapitation strikes, basically high level assassinations. Can you talk about this strateg by the Israeli military.

E (5:36)

This is a long standing strategy of Israel. Started in the 60s against German scientists in Egypt, then continued to scientists working for Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Recently Hamas leaders and now military and political leaders and religious leaders of Iran are being targeted. It gives a feeling that Israel is in love in this kind of targeted killing or assassinations and believe this is the only solution as a problem solver. But it's wrong because it doesn't lead us anywhere. Every leader, every commander that has been killed, sooner or later a replacement is being found. What happened? I think that Israel and the United States and President Trump believe that if they kill the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, the opening shot of the war, a chain reaction would be created. The masses, Iranian masses, would rush to the streets and will topple the government or at least there will be some sort of a coup d' etat from within the regime. Moderate forces in the regime will take over. This war began as a big gamble and the chiefs are now not in the favor of of Israel and the United States.

A (7:01)

So Israel has been relying on the strategy for a long time. What do we know about how they

E (7:06)

get done when it comes to Iran? It's a work of many, many years back, the Mossad, Israeli foreign intelligence agency and the military intelligence have been penetrating Iran, bugging telephones, shadowing people, recruiting agents, smuggling weapons inside the country, building safe houses, that when the order is given, everything will be in place and it will be possible to execute the decision. Iran is a country of mosaic. A lot of ethnical minorities and many of them don't like the regime and are ready to cooperate with Israel. Some of them do it of ideology, others for financial rewards, others because they hate the regime. Israel has sufficient infrastructure to come and to strike time and again, time again against top leaders, nuclear scientists and political leaders.

A (8:13)

To zoom out for a second last June amid the 12 day war between Israel and Iran, you spoke to a top official from Israel's spy agency and he told you a war is measured by how it ends, not by how successful the first strike is. What do you make of that now as the war enters week four?

E (8:34)

Well, that saying still holds. We don't see how it ends. Just nine months ago, Israel and the United States, mostly Israel, with the help of the United States, attacked Iran. Then President Trump prided himself that he obliterated Iranian nuclear sites. And Netanyahu, our Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, said that he ensured the existence of Israel for generations. And here we are nine months after, we are doing more of the same. More, more of the same with no tangible results. And maybe we are going into a perpetual war.

A (9:20)

We've been speaking with Yossi Melman, a journalist who covers Israel intelligence and strategic affairs. He's also co author of the book Spies Against Armageddon. Thank you so much for taking the time.

E (9:30)

Thank you, Adrian.

A (9:32)

This episode was produced by Henry Larson and Daniel Offman. It was edited by Tin Beat Ermias and Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Adrienne Ma.

F (9:57)

Support for NPR and the following message come from Washington Wise Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise, from Charles Schwab, is an original podcast that unpacks the stories, making news and how they may affect your finances and portfolio. Host Mike Townsend and his guests explore policy initiatives for retirement, savings, taxes, trade and more. Download the latest episode and follow@schwab.com WashingtonWise or wherever you listen. This message comes from Rosetta Stone. Spring Travel coming up. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit rosettastone.com NPR today. This message comes from Bombas. You need better socks and slippers and underwear because you should love what you wear every day. One purchased equals one donated. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.