Will a new leader for ICE operations quiet tensions in Minnesota?

Summary

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Consider This from NPR

Episode: Will a new leader for ICE operations quiet tensions in Minnesota?
Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Scott Detrow
Guest: Caitlin Dickerson, The Atlantic

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the Trump administration's decision to replace Greg Bevino with Tom Homan as head of a controversial ICE operation in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Following deadly violence linked to ICE actions and mounting public outcry, questions arise: Will this shift in leadership ease tensions, or signal even more hardline immigration enforcement? Journalist Caitlin Dickerson, who has closely tracked Homan's career, joins Scott Detrow to assess what’s at stake.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Context: Rising Tensions and Deadly Consequences

• President Trump initially struck a conciliatory tone with Minneapolis officials, but quickly escalated rhetoric after Mayor Frey declined to enforce federal immigration mandates.
• The ongoing ICE operation has led to two American citizens’ deaths, fueling public anxiety and national debate.
• Tom Homan, known for his longstanding and controversial role in immigration enforcement, has been dispatched to Minnesota as a "border czar" to purportedly de-escalate the situation.
  [00:00–02:45]

Notable Quote:

"The president posted on his social media site that the mayor is, quote, all caps 'playing with fire.'"
—Scott Detrow (00:15)

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Homan vs. Bevino: What Changes?

Background Differences

• Greg Bevino hailed from the Border Patrol, with limited media experience and a narrower enforcement focus.
• Tom Homan is a seasoned ICE leader, comfortable with the national press and with extensive experience overseeing interior immigration enforcement, often involving American citizens.

The ICE Difference

"It's an entirely different beast when you're carrying out arrests in American cities, when you're interacting with American citizens... That is stuff Homan is intimately familiar with."
—Caitlin Dickerson (02:59)

[02:45–04:13]

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Is Homan a De-escalator?

Track Record & Public Persona

• Despite being framed by the administration as a potential "moderating figure," Dickerson pushes back:
• Homan architected the first Trump administration’s family separation policy, recognized as one of the era’s most controversial and harsh.
• He initially took pride in and defended this policy.

On Moderation:

"Hard for me to see it that way, Scott, because I've spent years reporting on Tom Homan. ... One of, if not the most controversial and aggressive enforcement policies of that entire administration. And Tom Homan was the architect of it."
—Caitlin Dickerson (04:29)

On Shifting Tone:

• During the current campaign, Homan began to distance himself from family separation, despite the public record of his strong support.

"I did notice that during President Trump's most recent campaign, Homan did try to start to back away from family separations a little bit, which was confusing ... But I think he did understand that it was an unpopular policy."
—Caitlin Dickerson (05:58)

[04:13–06:41]

Homan’s Financial Dealings and the “Revolving Door”

• Dickerson details the common practice of top Homeland Security officials entering the lucrative private detention industry after government service.
• Homan established a consulting firm, facilitating multi-million dollar federal contracts with private prisons and contractors.
• While Homan boasted about brokering these deals, specifics remain undisclosed.

Noteworthy Incident:

• Homan was the subject of an undercover FBI bribery sting where agents allegedly offered him $50,000, which the DOJ ultimately closed without charges. The White House labeled it "entrapment," but Dickerson is skeptical.

"Accepting a bag with $50,000 in cash is something that I think even a very new law enforcement officer knows is untoward and likely to raise questions about ethics, if not be outright illegal."
—Caitlin Dickerson (08:50)

[06:41–09:45]

The Second Trump Administration: Even More Hardline

• Detrow notes the administration is notably more extreme in its approach to immigration than in the first term, with less internal dissent or policy pullback.
• Dickerson suggests Homan's value is his ability to seem like an ally to a wide range of actors, from immigration hardliners to advocates and private industry.

Dual Reputation:

"As much as he is an enforcement hardliner ... he was also someone in the Obama administration, for example, who people ... felt they could go to. ... Also saw Homan as an ally. ... He's also a very skilled politician. I think those two things together are why he's in the position he is now."
—Caitlin Dickerson (10:12)

[09:45–11:22]

Outlook for Minneapolis and the Broader Political Landscape

• With Homan taking direct orders from President Trump and advisor Stephen Miller, his actions will reflect the administration’s hardline stance, though Dickerson notes the internal political calculus may shift if public opinion turns sharply against current policies.
• Dickerson draws parallels to the rapid backlash and eventual repudiation of family separation, with even Republican senators breaking ranks.

"It does seem to be in question because the administration is seeing how much trouble listening to Miller has gotten them in when it comes to public opinion, that is."
—Caitlin Dickerson (11:41)

[11:22–12:15]

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "The city refuses to enforce federal immigration laws."
  —Scott Detrow (00:16)

• "Tom Homan was the architect of [family separation]. He admitted this to me in interviews."
  —Caitlin Dickerson (04:34)

• "He’s an enforcement hardliner … but he was also someone [advocates] felt they could go to. … He’s also a very skilled politician."
  —Caitlin Dickerson (10:12)

• "I consistently heard that he was always really good at making everybody feel like he was their ally."
  —Caitlin Dickerson (10:12)

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Conclusion

This episode of Consider This offers a critical look at what Tom Homan’s appointment means for Minneapolis and the national immigration debate. Despite official statements portraying the move as “de-escalatory,” expert reporting from Caitlin Dickerson suggests it may signal reinforcement of hardline policies with a more experienced—and politically deft—figure at the helm. The trajectory of the operation will be closely tied to reactions from the public, local officials, and internal Trump administration politics.

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For Further Listening:

• Listen to extended reporting on ICE operations, immigration policy, and national political developments through NPR’s related podcasts and news coverage.

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Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

It didn't take long for President Trump's tone to change. A day and a half after he reported positive conversations with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, the president posted on his social media site that the mayor is, quote, all caps playing with fire. This because Frey told Tom Homan in a Tuesday meeting, the city refuses to enforce federal immigration laws. Homan is the Trump administration's border czar and he was sent to Minnesota to bring down the temperature weeks into an ICE operation that has become a national conversation and tension point and has left two American citizens dead.

[President Donald Trump]

You know, we have Tom Homan there now. We put him in there, he's great. And they met with the governor, the mayor, everybody else, and we'll we're going to de escalate a little bit.

[Scott Detrow]

Homan replaces Greg Bevino, who until Monday had been overseeing the operation. Trump's border czar has worked for Democratic and Republican presidents and was the architect of Trump's first family separation policy in his first term. Consider this after the shooting of Alex Preddy, the Trump administration is making a leadership change on the ground in Minneapolis. Will anything change? From npr, I'm Scott Detrow.

[NPR Podcast Host]

This week on up first, more violence in Minneapolis. Democrats say they will block a spending bill in the Senate after another deadly ICE shooting. How will Republicans resp. And could the Trump administration rethink its strategy on immigration? We'll keep you posted every morning with three stories you need to know to start your day up. First, listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.

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[Scott Detrow]

Is your source for same day updates on big news about the Trump administration. Short, focused episodes, one topic at a time, about five minutes or so. We carry out reporting from across all of NPR's coverage, so you are always getting the biggest, most urgent stories. Listen to Trump's Terms on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Consider this from npr. Can a leadership shuffle do anything to meaningfully change the situation in Minneapolis? That is the first question we put to reporter Caitlin Dickerson of the Atlantic, who's been covering Tom Holman's career from years. I want to zoom out and get.

[Interviewer/Host]

To Homan's backstory and bio in a moment.

[Scott Detrow]

But let's start with this. In this moment, in this tense situation.

[Interviewer/Host]

What to you is the most meaningful difference between Greg Bevino and Tom Homan?

[Caitlin Dickerson]

So Tom Homan is a longtime leader in ice, whereas Bovino comes from the Border Patrol, and ICE is our law enforcement agency that carries out immigration enforcement in the interior of the country. I think that's important because it's an entirely different beast when you're carrying out arrests in American cities, when you're interacting with American citizens, people who have more legal rights and protections than those who are trying to cross the border for the first time and who are just generally more sensitive to deal with. All of that is stuff that Homan is intimately familiar with. So I think there's a big change there. I mean, he's a longtime leader in D.C. of Immigration Enforcement operations across Democratic and Republican administrations, whereas Bevino was really kind of a fringe character in the Border Patrol until he was elevated under Trump. And so to a certain extent, I think the administration is trying to bring forward somebody who has experience talking to the national press and who is maybe they're trying to frame as a sort of moderating figure. But when we get into his background, I think there's a lot of evidence to push back against that when it.

Comes to Homan's actual record.

[Scott Detrow]

That's what I was curious about, what you thought, because whether it's a professionalization.

[Interviewer/Host]

Or in some cases, people are saying it's a more moderate approach, this is.

[Scott Detrow]

Being framed as a de escalatory move. Do you see it that way based.

[Interviewer/Host]

On what you know about Tom Homan and his background?

[Caitlin Dickerson]

Hard for me to see it that way, Scott, because I've spent years reporting on Tom Homan.

I know him well.

I've interviewed him extensively. And a big part of that time I spent reporting on the first Trump administration's family separation policy at the southern border, one of, if not the most controversial and aggressive enforcement policies of that entire administration. And Tom Homan was the architect of it. He admitted this to me in interviews. He told me that he first proposed the idea to separate families at the border under the Obama administration. Both he and former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson told me that Johnson rejected the idea because he thought it was inhumane. Homan brought it back up under the first Trump administration and pushed really hard over the course of more than a year to get that policy put into place, even going so far as to say things that turned out not to be true, such as that There was a clear procedure in place for how to make sure that parents and children were safely reunited at one point and really just embarking on this pressure campaign that ultimately led to thousands of families being separated.

[Scott Detrow]

And that was probably, with maybe one.

[Interviewer/Host]

Or two exceptions, one of the policies of the first Trump administration that got the most backlash, got the most political response, really upset people across the political spectrum.

[Scott Detrow]

Did Tom Homan ever back away from that? Did he ever say that this was.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wrong or concede that mistakes were made.

[Scott Detrow]

In any way, shape or form?

[Caitlin Dickerson]

He's really waffled since then. So initially, as I said, Tom Homan was not ashamed to be a big supporter of this policy. He stood behind Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General, when Sessions announced the policy to separate families at a press conference in San Diego. When I interviewed Homan years later, he was again very open about the role that he played. But I did notice that during President Trump's most recent campaign, Homan did try to start to back away from family separations a little bit, which was confusing given that he was on the record acknowledging the critical role that he played. But I think he did understand that it was an unpopular policy and so.

Tried to sort of shift the narrative afterward.

[Interviewer/Host]

So that's an important thing to know about him when it comes to policies that he has pushed for and helped orchestrate.

[Scott Detrow]

One other thing that's gotten a lot.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of attention over the last few years is his financial dealings, the many ways in which his political life has intersected.

[Scott Detrow]

With his financial interests. What do we need to know about that?

[Caitlin Dickerson]

So there's a longstanding revolving door, people call it, between high ranking roles in the Department of Homeland Security and in particular the private prison companies that make billions of dollars on detaining immigrants across the country. You often have people who ret from these high level roles at ICE and DHS into high ranking roles at these private companies that are then negotiating with.

You're essentially negotiating with your former colleagues.

Colleagues who may want to retire themselves into these roles at private companies later. And so people have raised questions about whether that creates an environment for dubious deal making for the government, maybe not holding these private contractors to account to the degree that they should, because government officials might be looking for jobs in the future themselves. So Tom Homan, when he left government, he formed, during the Biden administration, a consulting company. And online, he bragged about playing an important role in tens of millions of dollars, he said, in federal contracts being awarded to his private clients. So basically serving as a middleman between the federal officials he knew very well and the private prison company officials he knew very well, as well as perhaps other types of private contractors that we don't know about, because he didn't pub a list of all of the deals he supposedly brokered. But he was very open about helping to support and facilitate these deals. And then it came out last year that he was actually involved in a sting operation with the DOJ.

[Scott Detrow]

Yeah. The basic facts of it were that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Undercover FBI agents, you know, allegedly offered him $50,000 in bribe money.

[Scott Detrow]

They said he accepted it. He denies this. The Department of Justice closed the bribery.

[Interviewer/Host]

Case, and the White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt, when this all came out, characterized all of that as entrapment.

[Caitlin Dickerson]

She did. And you really have to question that description, given what we've since seen from the FBI and the Department of Justice in general and how politics have influenced their work. You know, we're talking about somebody who's been in law enforcement since he was in his 20s. Tom Homan was a local police officer before he moved into the border patrol. At 23 years old, accepting a bag with $50,000 in cash is something that I think even a very new law enforcement officer knows is untoward and likely to raise questions about ethics, if not be outright illegal. And so I think there's some real spin going on there in terms of trying to give Holman the benefit of the doubt, saying that he was entrapped or that perhaps he didn't know any better. I don't think that's really a plausible response to somebody who's spent a lifetime in law enforcement in the way that he has.

[Scott Detrow]

I think the overarching story of the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Second Trump administration is how much more extreme it's been than the first one, that there were policies where the White House kind of stopped or pulled back or reassessed or people in positions of power said, we're not going to do this the first time around. That just hasn't happened on so many fronts this time around.

[Scott Detrow]

What do you see, if anything, that's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Different about Tom Homan in the second administration compared to the first administration?

[Caitlin Dickerson]

So Tom Homan has definitely moved further and further to the right, starting in the first Trump administration, into the Biden administration. But why I think he's probably being called in is because of a skill that he's demonstrated throughout his career in reporting on Homan. I consistently heard that he was always really good at making everybody feel like he was their ally. So as much as he is an enforcement hardliner and used really aggressive language to justify deporting just about anybody that federal authorities can get their hands on. He was also someone in the Obama administration, for example, who people who were more advocacy minded at DHS felt they could go to. At the same time, the private prison companies who wanted to move faster and build more with less restrictions would do the same thing. Also saw Homan as an ally. And so I think it can't be discounted how much more aggressive he's become in terms of supporting hardline policies. But he's also a very skilled politician. I think those two things together are why he's in the position he is now.

[Interviewer/Host]

Any sense, given all that, what you're looking for over the next few weeks in Minneapolis with him now in charge.

[Caitlin Dickerson]

He'S going to be taking direct orders from the president and from Stephen Miller as long as Stephen Miller remains in the very influential position that he's in now.

So there's a lot of shifting happening.

And I'm really reminded of in this moment of the period when public opinion turned against that first family separation policy. And it's easy to forget, but you actually, in a very short period of time went from even Republicans in Congress supporting that policy to people like Ted Cruz declaring that it should be illegal. Up until now it's been Stephen Miller. But I think that does seem to be in question because the administration is seeing how much trouble listening to Miller has gotten them in when it comes to public opinion, that is.

[Scott Detrow]

Caitlin Dickerson, reporter at the Atlantic.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you so much.

[Caitlin Dickerson]

Thanks, Scott.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Karen Zamora and Vincent Akovino. It was edited by Courtney Dorning and Sarah Handel. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

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