Will Trump's next term make him richer?

Summary

Consider This from NPR Episode: Will Trump's Next Term Make Him Richer? Release Date: December 3, 2024 Host: NPR

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Introduction

In the December 3, 2024 episode of NPR's Consider This, host Ari Shapiro delves into the intricate relationship between former President Donald Trump's business ventures and his political career. The episode explores whether a potential second term in the White House would further enrich Trump, examining past actions, current business expansions, and the ethical implications surrounding them.

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Trump's Business Influence in Politics

Ari Shapiro opens the discussion by highlighting how Donald Trump's tenure as president was characterized by the seamless blend of his business endeavors with his political role.

“President elect Donald Trump won his first term by campaigning as a businessman, not a politician. When he got into office, he never really stopped being Trump the businessman.”
— Ari Shapiro [00:01]

One notable instance was the 2019 announcement to host the G7 meeting at Trump's Doral Resort in Florida, which, although ultimately canceled, signaled Trump's intent to leverage his business assets for political purposes.

“Right next to the airport. Right, right there, meaning a few minutes away. It's a great place. It's got tremendous acreage.”
— Donald Trump [00:30]

Evolution of Trump's Business Interests

As Trump prepares for a potential second term, his business empire has diversified beyond hotels and resorts. He now holds a significant stake in the media company behind Truth Social and has ventured into the cryptocurrency sector.

“No, I'm not selling. No, I love it. I mean, I use it as a method of getting out my word.”
— Donald Trump [01:17]

Additionally, Trump announced the launch of his own cryptocurrency company, aiming to position the United States as a global leader in cryptocurrency.

“To ensure that the United States will be the crypto capital of the planet and the bitcoin superpower of the world. And we'll get it done.”
— Donald Trump [01:27]

Potential Conflicts of Interest

The episode critically examines how Trump's expanding business interests could pose significant conflicts of interest should he return to the presidency. NPR points out that despite previous pledges to separate his business dealings from his official duties, Trump's continued ownership and expansion into new industries raise ethical concerns.

“Trump's businesses could benefit substantially from his actions as president. And this time around, he has announced no plan to address potential conflicts of interest.”
— Ari Shapiro [01:37]

Insights from Experts: Noah Bookbinder

Noah Bookbinder, President of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), provides expert analysis on the issue. He recounts how Trump's initial attempts to mitigate conflicts of interest were insufficient, leading CREW to sue him.

“Donald Trump maintained effective ownership interest of all of his companies, so when they made money, he made money. He knew what those interests were, so he knew that he would make money if those companies profited.”
— Noah Bookbinder [04:08]

Bookbinder explains that Trump's current business portfolio, including Truth Social and his cryptocurrency venture, heightens the potential for conflicts of interest. For instance, investments in Truth Social can directly influence Trump's personal wealth, especially if the company's stock value rises due to external investments.

“When somebody buys a lot of stock, it often drives the stock value up. That is the primary source of Donald Trump's wealth at this point. So if you move that value up, you're essentially putting money in his pocket.”
— Noah Bookbinder [06:38]

He also raises concerns about Trump's cryptocurrency business, World Liberty Financial, highlighting the lack of regulation in the sector and the risks of the administration potentially favoring his business interests in regulatory decisions.

“If Donald Trump is an owner, is somebody who has a stake in that industry, and his administration is deciding how that industry should be regulated, there's really a risk that he could be making decisions based on what's going to make his company money and therefore what's going to make him and his family money.”
— Noah Bookbinder [07:22]

Accountability and Legal Challenges

Bookbinder discusses the challenges in holding Trump accountable, noting that traditional accountability mechanisms have been less effective during his administration. The Supreme Court's decisions and a pliant Congress further complicate efforts to enforce ethical standards.

“Donald Trump has been masterful in evading accountability. It's really one of his kind of superpowers.”
— Noah Bookbinder [10:03]

He emphasizes the importance of continued efforts to uphold constitutional principles and ethical governance, despite the obstacles posed by Trump's influential position.

“We have to keep trying.”
— Noah Bookbinder [10:03]

Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode concludes with a reflection on the potential implications of Trump's second term on his business empire and the broader ethical landscape of American politics. While there are significant concerns about conflicts of interest and the blending of personal wealth with public duty, the lack of clear accountability mechanisms presents a daunting challenge.

“I do think that there is a real concern that as often as he was able to evade accountability the first time around, that there are fewer checks on his power.”
— Noah Bookbinder [10:03]

Shapiro underscores the necessity for vigilance and persistent efforts to ensure that the presidency serves the American people's interests rather than personal financial gains.

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Key Takeaways

• Intertwined Interests: Trump's business ventures have historically intertwined with his political role, raising questions about potential conflicts of interest.

• Business Expansion: Trump's business empire has expanded into media and cryptocurrency, areas that could significantly benefit from his presidential actions.

• Ethical Concerns: Experts like Noah Bookbinder express deep concerns about the ability to hold Trump accountable and the risks of his continued business involvement influencing policy decisions.

• Accountability Challenges: Traditional mechanisms for enforcing ethical standards appear less effective in the current political climate, necessitating ongoing efforts to uphold governance integrity.

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This comprehensive exploration by NPR's Consider This provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the financial and ethical dimensions of Donald Trump's potential second term, highlighting the broader implications for American democracy and governance.

Transcript

[Ari Shapiro]

President elect Donald Trump won his first term by campaigning as a businessman, not a politician. When he got into office, he never really stopped being Trump the businessman. Even though he gave up direct control of his companies, he regularly talked up his properties as president. In 2019, the White House announced that it would host the G7 meeting of World leaders at Trump's resort in Doral, Florida, a decision he first teased at a press conference with then German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

[Donald Trump]

Right next to the airport. Right, right there, meaning a few minutes away. It's a great place. It's got tremendous acreage.

[Ari Shapiro]

This was set to be a massive gathering with lots of foreign money flowing into a business owned by the president. Later that day, a reporter asked Trump if he was concerned about the ethics of the choice. The G7 never did take place at Trump's Doral resort, but Trump's other properties frequently hosted the president and his Secret Service detail at taxpayer expense. As he prepares for a second term in the White House, Trump's business interests have expanded beyond hotels and resorts. He has a multibillion dollar stake in the media company that runs Truth Social, which he says he has no intention of selling.

[Donald Trump]

No, I'm not selling. No, I love it. I mean, I use it as a method of getting out my word.

[Ari Shapiro]

And after boosting the cryptocurrency industry during.

[Noah Bookbinder]

His campaign, I'm laying out my plan.

[Donald Trump]

To ensure that the United States will be the crypto capital of the planet and the bitcoin superpower of the world. And we'll get it done.

[Ari Shapiro]

He unveiled a crypto company of his own this fall. Consider this. Trump's businesses could benefit substantially from his actions as president. And this time around, he has announced no plan to address potential conflicts of interest. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro.

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[Ari Shapiro]

It's Consider this from npr. Just before Donald Trump took office the first time he held a press conference announcing that he would turn over control of his business empire to his sons. He said he wanted to address concerns about conflicts of interest, even though he maintained he didn't really have to.

[Donald Trump]

So I could actually run my business. I could actually run my business and run government at the same time. I don't like the way that looks, but I would be able to do that if I wanted to.

[Ari Shapiro]

His second term may put that theory to the test. Trump has not yet announced any plan to wall himself off from his businesses while in office. Noah Bookbinder is president of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a group that sued Trump over his business interests in his first term. Welcome.

[Noah Bookbinder]

Good to be here.

So to go Back to that 2017.

[Ari Shapiro]

Press conference, Trump announced he was transferring the Trump Organization's businesses to a trust.

[Noah Bookbinder]

And turning over what he called complete and total control.

[Donald Trump]

What I'm going to be doing is my two sons who are right here, Don and Eric, are going to be running the company.

[Noah Bookbinder]

He also adopted an ethics plan to stop new international deals and said he.

[Ari Shapiro]

Would donate any profits that Trump businesses.

[Noah Bookbinder]

Made from foreign governments to the U.S. treasury. You sued him anyway.

[Ari Shapiro]

Why?

[Noah Bookbinder]

Well, those efforts were never really serious attempts to avoid conflicts of interest. Donald Trump maintained effective ownership interest of all of his companies, so when they made money, he made money. He knew what those interests were, so he knew that he would make money if those companies profited. There was never really an effort to separate himself beyond that. The Constitution actually says that no one who is a federal government official can receive things of value from foreign governments unless Congress authorizes it. It also says that the president can't get paid by the government or state governments beyond his or her salary. So we felt it was really important to vindicate the Constitution or at least try the best we could to do that. Both because you shouldn't be able to violate the Constitution, but also because we want the president making decisions based on what's in the interest of the American people, not what makes him money.

The case that you brought was eventually declared moot by the Supreme Court because by that point, Trump had left the White House.

[Ari Shapiro]

Since then, his businesses have evolved a lot.

[Noah Bookbinder]

What concerns does the present day portfolio present?

We think there's even more possibility for conflicts of interest now. You still have the possibility for the kinds of things that we saw in the first Trump administration where foreign governments or companies or industries stayed at rooms in his hotel, held events at his resorts. But now you have other types of businesses. You have this giant social media company, Trump Media, which is the parent company for Truth Social. And if, whether it's a foreign government or a company or a wealthy investor wants to essentially give money to Donald Trump, it can buy a whole lot of stock in this publicly traded company. And when somebody buys a lot of stock, it often drives the stock value up. That is the primary source of Donald Trump's wealth at this point. So if you move that value up, you're essentially putting money in his pocket.

So just to nail this down, the scenario is, I want to get in with President trump, I buy $10 million worth of truth Social stock, and then I sidle up to him at a party of Mar a Lago and say, hey, your stock price increased because I dumped a bunch of money into it. Is that what you're concerned about?

Precisely. And Donald Trump, the first time around made clear he was perfectly fine with companies or people or countries showing their respect for him by bringing business his way. And now the scale potentially got a whole lot bigger.

He also has this cryptocurrency business, World Liberty Financial. How does that concern you from a conflict of interest perspective?

There are two ways. One is that we don't really know what this business is going to be, and there certainly could be ways for people to bring money to him through that business. The second way is that cryptocurrency is largely unregulated at this point, and it's going to be the job of the federal government to determine how it should be regulated going forward. And if Donald Trump is an owner, is somebody who has a stake in that industry, and his administration is deciding how that industry should be regulated, there's really a risk that rather than making those regulatory decisions based on protecting American people, whether they're investors or otherwise affected, that he could be making decisions based on what's going to make his company money and therefore what's going to make him and his family money.

We've described how he responded to these concerns last time. How has he responded this time?

As of now, we've heard nothing. Donald Trump has not indicated that he is planning to divest his businesses. There was a story in the fall where Eric Trump essentially said, we tried so hard to be ethical last time, and nobody gave us credit for that. He didn't say what that means. But the implication may be we're not even going to try this time.

Donald Trump and his spokespeople have called your organization crew, a radical left wing activist group. They argue that he actually lost money as president compared to what he could have earned if he had hung onto all of his business interests and not gone to the White House.

[Ari Shapiro]

What do you say to that?

[Noah Bookbinder]

Well, I say, first of all that we're an organization that has gone after Democrats and Republicans when they have run afoul of ethics rules, of the laws of this country. But beyond that, the key here is to have a country that is run in the interest of the American people. And Donald Trump, again and again through his first term as president, showed that he was willing to use the presidency to benefit his businesses, that he was willing to run roughshod over traditions, rules, laws, even the Constitution. We're always going to call that out.

During Trump's first term, the head of the Office of Government Ethics resigned in protest of Trump's business arrangements, but did not have the authority to force Trump to divest. Your lawsuit did not succeed. Conflict of interest laws that other federal employees are required to observe don't apply to the president.

[Ari Shapiro]

So ultimately, is there an accountability mechanism? Is there any check on the president in this area?

[Noah Bookbinder]

Donald Trump has been masterful in evading accountability. It's really one of his kind of superpowers. He runs out the clock. He finds places where there are traditions that actually aren't backed up in law, or he finds laws that are difficult to enforce. That doesn't mean that pushing back and trying to hold him accountable never works. In Donald Trump's first administration, for instance, the G7, we and others pushed back very hard. There was a firestorm and he backed down. And that didn't happen. And there were instances like that. I think there is a real concern that as often as he was able to evade accountability the first time around, that there are fewer checks on his power. Now there's a Congress that seems very pliant to Donald Trump's wishes. There is a Supreme Court that seems more and more to be willing to interpret the law in a way that is favorable to Donald Trump. So I do think that is a cause for concern. I also do think that we have seen in the past that raising objections when they are grounded in facts and law and not just rhetoric, can matter. And we have to keep trying.

Noah Bookbinder is president of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Thank you.

Thanks so much.

[Ari Shapiro]

This episode was produced by Connor Donovan. It was edited by Patrick, Jaron, Watanan and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Ari Shapiro.

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