Podcast Summary: Conspiracy Theories, Cults, & Crimes

Episode Title: CONSPIRACY THEORIES: The Smiley Face Killers with Dr. Tristin Engels
Host: Vanessa Richardson
Guest: Dr. Tristin Engels (Forensic Psychologist)
Date: December 10, 2025

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Vanessa Richardson dives into the "Smiley Face Killers" conspiracy theory — the claim that dozens of young, college-aged men who drowned were actually victims of a clandestine network of serial killers. Vanessa is joined by Dr. Tristin Engels, forensic psychologist and co-host of "Killer Minds," to dissect the origins, evidence, psychology, and criticism surrounding one of true crime’s most enduring urban legends. Their discussion blends true crime investigation, behavioral science, media influence, and the human quest for meaning in tragic, unresolved cases.

Main Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins and Background of the Smiley Face Killers Theory

• The theory emerged from the investigations of retired NYPD detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte, who connected a series of drowning deaths of college-aged men across the U.S. (04:43).
• All victims fit a consistent profile: white, athletic, promising futures, last seen drinking, bodies found in water (03:42).
• Notable case: Patrick McNeil (05:45–12:42): Disappeared in 1997 after leaving a New York City bar, body found in the East River. Gannon believed the case had signs of abduction and murder, not accidental drowning — and this became the foundation for the serial killer theory.

“In Kevin's eyes, the evidence told a clear story. He strongly believed that Patrick's death wasn't accidental. He had been drugged, abducted, tied up and murdered before being dumped in the East River.” – Vanessa Richardson (11:15)

2. The Investigation Evolves

• Gannon, Duarte, and criminal justice professor Doc Gilbertson formed “Nationwide Investigations” (18:02).
• They noticed recurring smiley face graffiti at/near multiple locations where bodies were found, often with other tags (21:46). They theorized this was a "calling card" from an organized group.

“Many of the supposed sites had a smiley face spray painted nearby... Kevin and Anthony decided the smiley faces were some kind of marker...” – Vanessa Richardson (21:53)

• Other peculiar graffiti and possible gang affiliations were observed, further muddying the waters (26:21).

3. Forensic and Psychological Analysis

Dr. Engels offered extensive expert commentary.

On the Likelihood of Group Serial Killers

“There's very little precedent for organized groups of serial killers operating together, especially in the kind of coordinated, interstate way suggested by the smiley face killer theory... Those traits don't commingle well with others.” (23:26)

• Serial killers are typically solitary, driven by personal compulsions or pathologies. Pair or partnership cases (e.g., the “Toolbox Killers”) are rare and differ markedly from a putative organized network.
• Signature crime markers (like the smiley face graffiti) are generally unique, personal, and consistent — unlike the varied and ubiquitous tags in these cases (25:13).

On Cognitive Bias

• Dr. Engels repeatedly warned that trauma, empathy, and investment can lead even skilled investigators to see patterns that may not exist (12:42, 33:53, 35:48).
• Emotional truth vs. empirical truth: Investigators’ passionate pursuit of meaning can lead to confirmation bias.

“The theory feels emotionally true... but emotional truth isn't the same as empirical truth. As a forensic psychologist, I see how easily confirmation bias can sneak in when we're searching for order.” (42:37)

On Victim vs. Offender Profiling

• Anthony Duarte described the supposed killers as the "opposite" of the successful, athletic victims, motivated by jealousy. Dr. Engels critiqued this as a simplistic, emotionally satisfying, but unsupported trope:

"Violent offenders are rarely motivated by pure jealousy of socioeconomic status like this... The idea of an organized multi-state collective of killers acting out of shared jealousy isn't just unlikely, it's just psychologically inconsistent." (33:53)

4. Investigation Roadblocks and Media Frenzy

• Law enforcement, including the FBI, dismissed the serial killer theory for lack of evidence (30:08).
• Media attention exploded after a 2008 article; public fear and conspiracy speculation grew (36:41).
• Academic scrutiny increased: Nine criminologists published “Drowning the Smiley Face Murder Theory,” criticizing methodological and evidentiary gaps—especially the reliance on common graffiti and lack of consistent signatures (38:44).

5. Impact on the Public and Victims’ Families

• Despite little official support, the theory gained traction online and in popular culture. It influenced documentaries, a feature film, and frequent social media speculation (46:07).
• Some victim families began to feel the investigators offered “empty hope,” causing renewed grief (47:53).

“I feel Kevin is like a sponge. He latches onto the families, sucks the life out of them and when he has nothing else to suck, he dumps them.” — Unnamed victim’s father (47:53)

• Dr. Engels reflected on the harm caused when true crime crusaders lose sight of the families’ emotional needs:

“When that occurs, even well intentioned investigators can consequently re-traumatize the very people they set out to help, giving them false hope and then resulting in even more ambiguous grief.” (48:54)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the psychology of unsolved cases and justice:

  “For someone who spent a career investigating truth finding, closure becomes its own form of healing. And in some cases, retired detectives struggle with taking off their investigative hats… That mindset becomes part of their identity.” — Dr. Tristan Engels (12:42)

• On the power of media and myth:

  “The story reached such a wide audience…Kevin and Anthony presented the smart smiley face killers as an ongoing threat. According to them, other young men were at risk…” — Vanessa Richardson (38:44)

• On grief and needing meaning:

  “What this case ultimately illustrates is how powerful our need for meaning really is, especially when we're faced with ambiguous loss like that. People want to believe there's an explanation or a pattern and a villain. It's easier to have explanations or something to blame than accepting the possibility of a random tragedy or a series of random tragedies.” — Dr. Tristan Engels (48:54)

• Chilling Detail: The “smiley face” painted on a victim’s grave after the case aired nationally (44:04).

• Signature Analysis: Dr. Engels’ skepticism about common graffiti as evidence—reminding listeners that signature behaviors are rare, deeply personal, and hard to fake (25:13).

Key Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:50–02:08 | Introduction to the Smiley Face Killers theory and notable early cases | | 05:45–12:42 | The Patrick McNeil case and Gannon’s growing suspicions; formation of the theory | | 16:40–21:46 | Emergence of Nationwide Investigations and discovery of the smiley face graffiti | | 23:26–26:21 | Dr. Engels on group serial killers and "signature" evidence | | 30:08–33:53 | Law enforcement/FBI reactions and the role of GHB | | 36:41–38:44 | Media coverage, public fear, and academic critique of the theory | | 42:37 | Dr. Engels on confirmation bias and emotional attachment in investigations | | 44:04–46:07 | Renewed interest, informants, alleged "Dealers of Death" gang | | 47:53–48:54 | Families’ disappointment, emotional impact, Dr. Engels’ closing reflections |

Tone and Style

The episode maintains a blend of investigative gravitas and empathetic storytelling, with Dr. Engels providing measured, respectful but rigorous skepticism. Vanessa leads with clarity and compassion, always emphasizing the facts, the importance of justice for families, and the broader cultural fascination with mystery and meaning in crime.

Conclusion

The episode is a nuanced exploration of why the "Smiley Face Killers" theory persists. It’s not simply about facts or evidence, but about the psychological need for answers when tragedy strikes. The experts caution against easy narratives — whether conspiracy or coincidence — and urge listeners to keep both skepticism and compassion close at hand. The Smiley Face Killers remain an unsolved, emotionally charged mystery at the crossroads of true crime, pop culture, and conspiracy thinking.

Listener Engagement:
Vanessa invites listeners to share their opinions on the theory and law enforcement’s response in the comments (50:32).

Final Thought:
Despite high-profile advocacy and persistent public belief, official investigations and forensic science continue to challenge the plausibility of the Smiley Face Killers as an organized, multi-state conspiracy.