Loading summary
Transcript13 lines
- [00:02]
A
Hi, listeners, it's Vanessa. Before we get into today's episode, I want to tell you about another show I think you'll love. Hidden history with Dr. Harini Bhat. Every Monday, Dr. Bhat goes where history gets mysterious. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, paranormal phenomena, and events that science still can't fully explain. Dr. Bot treats these moments like open case files. Not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations waiting for a closer look. Hidden History drops every Monday. Follow now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, so you never miss a mystery. This is crime house. If you're feeling lost in life, and we all do at some point, it's natural to look for guidance. But for some people, that search doesn't lead to clarity. It leads them into the wrong hands. Sometimes into the hands of someone like Carl Drew. In the late 1970s, Carl was working as a pimp in Fall River, Massachusetts. He'd charm vulnerable young women into working for him, offering protection and companionship. And since he'd already pushed them into sex work and substance abuse, pulling them in deeper wasn't difficult. So. So when Carl developed an interest in devil worship, he got his employees involved, too. Together, they held ritualistic meetings. Gathered in friends apartments or out in the forest. They'd light candles, chant, and try to summon Satan himself. Over time, those rituals escalated. And soon there were whispers around Fall river that Carl and his cult were doing more than worshiping Satan. They were offering him sacrifices. Human sacrifices. From UFO cults and mass suicides to secret CIA experiments, presidential assassinations, and murderous doctors, these aren't just theories. They're real stories that blur the line between fact and fiction. I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Conspiracy, Cults and Crimes, a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, I'll explore the real people at the center of the world's most shocking events and nefarious organizations. These cases are wild, and I want to hear what you think at the end of each episode. Leave a comment wherever you listen. Be sure to rate, review and follow conspiracy theories, Cults and crimes to continue building this community together. And for ad free access to all three episodes, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Today, I'm diving into one of the most disturbing cases to come out of Massachusetts. The Fall River Cult Murders. A series of killings that unfolded between 1979 and 1980. At the center of it was a man named Carl Drew, a Satan worshipping pimp who formed a small but tightly controlled cult around himself. It started with rituals and chanting, but it didn't stay there for long. What exactly happened inside this group is still debated, but one thing is Three young women lost their lives because of Karl Drew. All that and more coming up.
- [03:43]
B
Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they show you options that fit your budget enough, hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy. Or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law
- [04:28]
C
we all belong outside. We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails. You can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with alltrails.
- [05:01]
A
Growing up in the 60s and 70s was a different world compared to today. Kids could roam free until sunset and parents couldn't really do much about it. There were no cell phones, no way to check in with a quick text. Doreen Levesque was born in 1962, right in the middle of this limited supervision era of parenting. And like a lot of other kids back then, she got into her fair share of trouble. She wrote dark poetry, talked about death, and dabbled in petty crime, some shoplifting, some drugs. Things snowballed from there and in 1979, 17 year old Doreen dropped out of high school. Before long, she got involved in sex work. It was easy enough to hide from her family. Her parents had six younger children to raise and Doreen was nearly an adult, so they trusted her to take care of herself. Still, Doreen was careful about keeping her work a secret. Whenever she planned to be out, she'd tell her parents she was going to visit friends. Then she'd usually hitchhike about 15 miles from her home in New Bedford, Massachusetts to the nearby city of Fall River. There she'd look for clients along Bedford street, which was known as a hotspot for sex work. On the night of November 12, 1979, Doreen left her parents house and made the trip to Fall river to earn some money. When she didn't come home that night, her parents weren't too worried. As far as they knew, she'd occasionally stay over at a friend's house without telling them. Sometimes that was true. Other times it was just the COVID story. But. But this time the truth was darker than they could have ever imagined. The next morning on October 13, at around 7am, two joggers found Doreen's body. She was underneath the bleachers at the local Diamond Regional Technical School in Fall River. The scene was brutal. Blood stained rocks were scattered around her. Doreen had a broken jaw and knife wounds on her hands and face. Face. She was nude from the waist down and had been tied up with fishing line. A later autopsy reported that she'd been raped before she was killed. A detective with the Fall river police was assigned to the case. And once he realized that her parents had no idea she was even in Fall river, his wheels started to spin. He had a feeling that Doreen had come there to do sex work since Fall river had a reputation for it. So the detective teamed up with Doreen. Two younger officers who knew the Fall river nightlife scene well. Alan, Sylvia and Tom Wakim. Rather than policing the nightlife scene from the outside, they'd become a part of it. Here's how it worked. They'd book different sex workers to meet arrest quotas, then let them go with no real consequences. That helped build trust. So when something more serious happened, the people involved in petty crime might actually be willing to talk. After Doreen was killed, Joaquim and Sylvia brought the other detective into the fold and introduced him to their contacts. Several of the local women had seen Doreen around and confirmed that she had been doing sex work. But that was just one piece of the puzzle. The next came from a 24 year old former sex worker named Sunny Sparta. She'd turned her place at the Harbor Terrace housing development into the default gathering spot for the whole nightlife crowd. Pimps, sex workers, drug dealers. Everyone passed through Sonny's apartment. And soon Sylvia, Joaquim and the other detective became regulars. Because of Sunny's friendship with these detectives, other people felt comfortable letting their guard down. The Officers came by in plain clothes, though they weren't exactly undercover. People knew they were cops, but with Sonny vouching for them, nobody seemed to mind. One of the most interesting things about Sunny's apartment was the decor. Her entire living room wall was taken up by a giant colorful mural of Satan. At first the detectives figured it was just a nod to the counterculture. But soon they learned the truth was a lot more sinister. A 20 year old sex worker named Karen Marsden, who was at Sonny's place a lot, told the detectives that she and her friends actually did worship Satan. And they held meetings where they tried to summon him. And they'd been doing so even before Doreen was killed. Karen said these rituals often took place at Sunny's apartment, but when the weather was nice, the group went into the nearby Freetown Fall River State Forest instead. The meetings usually involved chanting. Some people spoke in tongues, and Karen said that sometimes they could feel the devil's presence in the room. Sunny filled in more of the picture. She told the detectives that during the rituals in the woods, the group would sometimes sacrifice animals. They'd pour blood and entrails over each other. Different people took turns leading the meetings. But more often than not, the one running things was a 24 year old man named Carl Drew. Even though Carl didn't always run the meetings himself, he was the de facto leader of this fledgling cult in he was the most prominent pimp in the area and many of the women at the meetings were his employees. But even the ones who didn't work for him knew he had a reputation for violence. That made Karen Marsden nervous. She'd worked for Carl for years. But shortly after Doreen was killed, sometime that October or November, Karen left him. She went out on her own and started dating a 17 year old named Robyn Murphy, who who was also part of the cult. That was a pretty bold move, especially because Robin was on her way to becoming Carl's competitor. Robin was a former sex worker herself, but it seemed like she was trying to move up the ladder. Although she said she wasn't officially a pimp, she was taking money from some of the girls. She was also sleeping with many of them, though it's not clear if Karen knew that. Either way, after Karen stopped working for Carl, she was also stopped attending the satanic meetings. Instead, she tried to find her way back to Christianity. Robin, however, never stopped going, which meant she could keep Karen updated on Carl. And one thing was becoming increasingly clear. He was not happy with Karen Marsden. Carol Fletcher was a sex worker who was friends with Robin, Karen and pretty much everyone else involved. And Carl told her straight to her face that in the right time and the right place, he was going to kill Karen. But that wasn't all. Apparently, Carl had also threatened Carol herself, just not to her face. Robin was the one who delivered the news and what she described was truly terrifying. Robin said she'd been at a ritual in the woods with Carl and the other devil worshippers after they set up a makeshift altar near a swamp. And Carl told Robin that he was going to bring Karen and Carol there. He said he was going to torture both of them, inject them with battery acid, kill them and leave their bodies in the swamp. Detectives Sylvia and Joaquim didn't know about those specifics. But by then they'd picked up on the rumors that Carl Drew was dangerous. But the real scoop didn't come from Karen or any of the other women. Instead, a friend of a friend friend made the call. In October 1979, a 42 year old man named Andre Malte, who went by Andy, contacted the police about possible information related to Doreen's murder. Andy had been in the cult with the women and girls, but had recently left. He still talked to Robin regularly, which is how he heard about the threats against Karen. But that wasn't all. Andy also said there were rumors that Carl had something to do with Doreen Levesque's murder and and that Karen was somehow wrapped up in it. The problem was Andy had called the state police, not the Fall River Police. The state police weren't deeply involved yet, so they agreed to talk with him. But they didn't think the situation was urgent. On top of that, Andy was flaky and often incoherent. He'd call the police just to ramble about nothing. And he refused to explain what he knew over the phone. It took weeks just to get him to agree to meet in person. Finally, at the end of November 1979, Andy set up a meeting with a state police detective named Paul Fitzgerald. He wanted to share some information about Doreen Levesque's murder. But Andy didn't go alone. He brought Karen Marsden and Robin Murphy with him. Although Andy had arranged the meeting, he wasn't actually very helpful. Neither was Robin. But Karen said she she knew who had killed Doreen. She said it was Carl Drew. But when Fitzgerald pressed her for details, she shut down. She wouldn't say whether Carl had confessed to her or if she'd been a witness. For all Fitzgerald knew, Karen was just repeating rumors she'd heard around town. She wouldn't elaborate. But she did tell Fitzgerald. One more thing. If she wound up dead, Carl Drew was the one who killed her. What they did to your family, you're lucky to make it out alive. Streaming on Peacock.
- [14:27]
D
These men are going to come after me.
- [14:29]
A
Taking them out. It's my only chance. Put a bullet in her head. From the co creator of Ozark. Looks like a family was running drugs. Execution style killing. It's rare for the kids. Any leads on who they might have been running for? The cartel killed my family. I'm gonna kill them. All of them. MIA Streaming now only on Peacock.
- [14:51]
E
This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories. And the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus. L every year after the Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more Slow burns, second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime.
- [15:23]
A
In the fall of 1979, Massachusetts State Police detective Paul Fitzgerald finally got a lead in the murder of 17 year old Doreen Levesque. According to a young woman named Karen Marsden, local pimp Carl Drew had killed Doreen and Karen was afraid she might be next. Karen stayed in touch with Fitzgerald for a few months after that. He hoped he might eventually get her to open up. But before long, she stopped taking his calls. On the other hand, 42 year old Andy Malte, the guy who arranged the meeting with Karen, was an open book. Not because he had new information about Doreen, but because he wanted Fitzgerald's help with something else. Andy's girlfriend Barbara Riposa was missing and he didn't feel like the Fall river police were doing enough about it. It's a lot to keep track of. But Robin was actually the one who introduced Andy and Barbara. And since Robin seemed to know everyone in the cult, everyone rumored to be involved in Doreen's murder and was now also tangled up in Barbara Barbara's disappearance, it's worth getting to know her a little better. So let's rewind and talk about the life of Robin Murphy. Robyn Murphy was a girl with a deeply tragic life. She was sexually abused by her brother starting at just eight years old. Three years later, she met Andy Malte. And that's when her life took an even darker turn. Robin said Andy picked her up while she was hitchhiking at age 11. She said he gave her drugs and sexually assaulted her. She also said she was Andy's girlfriend from the ages of 11 to 13. They broke up, if you can even call it that, because Andy became interested in Robin's friend Barbara Rasa, who was around 15 at the time. Andy would still give Robin rides and buy her booze, but the assault mostly stopped at that point. Eventually, both girls had children of their own. Robyn got pregnant at 15 and gave the baby up for adoption. It's not clear who the father was. Then, at around 18 years old, Barbara got pregnant with Andy's baby. She had her son in early 1979. Barbara kept the baby, and that same year, she finally decided it was time to break the hold Andy had on her life. So she started seeing a man named David Cowan. Things seemed to be going well with David. He took her on proper dates and didn't judge her for her job as a sex worker. By the time Doreen Levesque was found dead, Barbara hadn't fully ended things with Andy yet. But she was getting closer. On November 7, 1979, less than a month after Doreen's body was found, David picked Barbara up for dinner in a movie. Afterward, he dropped her off on the street to work. She told him she wouldn't be out too late. She'd meet him at a bar later that night. He waited until 1:00am Barbara never showed. The next day, no one could reach her. That night, Barbara's father reported her missing. And that's when Andy Maulte started showing up. He visited the Fall river police again and again, asking what was being done about his missing girlfriend and sharing rumors he'd heard around town. At that point, he also started talking to the state police. Still, weeks went by without any news. Eventually, 1979 turned into 1980. And that's when Barbara's family finally got answers. On January 26, 1980, more than three months after Doreen was killed, Barbara was found in the woods outside a local factory. Her hands were tied and her skull had been caved in. Police had to use dental records to identify her. By this point, three young women were dead or missing. Doreen, Barbara, and now Karen. And the same names kept coming. Carl Drew, Robyn Murphy, Andy Malte. The threads were all connected. The question was whether anyone could pull them together before someone else got hurt. Over the next several days, the state police called and visited Andy repeatedly. But getting useful information out of him was like pulling teeth. He'd start answering a question, then veer off on a completely unrelated tangent. Still, the detectives kept at it. They knew Andy believed in psychics and clairvoyance, so they worked that angle. They asked him, hey, maybe you're Psychic. Maybe you can sense something that might be useful. Sure enough, he took the bait. On the morning of February 5th, Andy called Detective Paul Fitzgerald. He said he'd had a dream he wanted to talk about. Andy came into the station and told police that he used to worship Satan, but had since found the Lord. And because he was now in God's good graces, two angels had come to him in a dream. They'd given him a vision of how Barbara's murder place played out. He said the angels let him hover in the sky and watch the whole thing. In the vision, Andy said he'd seen an unknown man drag Barbara into the woods and throw her to the ground. As the man bashed her in the face with a rock, Barbara cried out for Andy to save her. The police were pretty sure they knew what had actually happened. Andy killed Barbara. And if they could get him to describe things from this so called vision that he had no way of knowing and they'd have a case. They showed him photographs taken of the crime scene after Barbara's body had been moved. Andy pointed to exactly where the body had been. He also showed the officers where he'd been floating near the treetops in his dream. After that, detectives brought him to the site in person. At the murder scene, Andy pinpointed where everything had happened, right down to where Barbara's head had laid Lane in the clearing. He also pointed to a pile of concrete rocks and said, I sense a murder weapon in that pile. That was the smoking gun. Police had found small bits of concrete embedded in Barbara's skull, but they'd withheld that detail from the public. Andy kept insisting he'd learned all of this through his vision. But the officers didn't buy it for a second. They arrested Andy on February 7, 1980. A few days later, on February 12, his bail was set at $75,000. Andy had suffered a stroke the previous spring and was partially disabled, so police weren't worried about him being a flight risk. Meanwhile, the Fall river detectives were growing closer to Karen Marsden. They hadn't been in the loop about Andy bringing Karen and Robin to the state police back in November. But after spending so much time at Sunny Sparta's apartment with mutual friends like Carol Fletcher, they could tell Karen was close to cracking. Then, on January 30, just days after Barbara's body was found, Alan Sylvia got a call from Carol. She said she had a friend who knew something about Doreen Levesque's murder. The detectives rushed over to Carol's apartment, eager to learn more when they arrived, Carol explained that she'd invited Karen over when, but that Karen didn't know the authorities were there. When Karen arrived and saw the detectives, she freaked out. She was hysterical, incoherent. All she would say was that she was scared of Carl Drew and the cult. She said it had something to do with Doreen Leveque, but wouldn't tell them anything specific. Still, the detectives continued reaching out to Karen. They assured her that it was okay to confide in them. They kept hoping that eventually she'd listen to it. Turned out Karen did confide in someone, just not the police. She told her grandmother. She explained that two girls in her circle, Doreen and Barbara, had both been killed and that she worried she might be next. Karen said the cult members had Even threatened her three year old son, J.J. karen's son lived with foster parents named Donald and Elvira Nolan. They had a good relationship with Karen, but when she came to visit on the evening of February 8, 1980, something about her was off. Karen brought Robin along and they arrived at The Nolan's around 6:30pm for dinner. Karen kept making vague comments, almost like she was saying goodbye, like she might not see them again. At one point, Robyn even pulled Elvira aside and told her that if anything happened to Karen, they should keep taking care of the baby. Elvira told Robyn they loved JJ of course they would. The girls left after dinner and went their separate ways. Then Karen called Detective Sylvia. She said she was finally ready to talk. Sylvia and Joaquin picked her up. They drove around in an unmarked car for a while, trying to convince her to tell them about Doreen. They promised that in exchange, they'd put Karen in protective custody. But Karen pushed back. She said that even if they helped her, they couldn't put her entire family and all of her friends in protective custody, too. Eventually, the detectives ran out of options and Karen asked them to drop her off at a local church. She said she wanted to talk to a priest. Karen never came home that night. And when she was still missing the entire next day, her grandmother reported her missing. That same day, February 9th, Robyn Murphy, Karen's girlfriend and Carl's former follower, finally started talking to the police. She told them she'd witnessed a murder. The authorities assumed she was talking about Karen. But Robyn said that with Andy locked up, she finally felt safe enough to talk about her other friend, Barbara Raposa. Remember, that was the same young woman whose murder Andy had supposedly seen in a dream. Robin explained that on the night Barbara disappeared, November 7, 1979, she'd been out drinking at a bar with a friend. By the time midnight rolled around, Robin was pretty drunk. So she called Andy to come pick her up. Andy was already on his way to get Barbara at a nearby diner. And while he had Robin alone in the car, she said he told her something chilling. He said he was going to kill Barbara because she was seeing David Cowan. Once Andy picked Barbara up, the three of them smoked a joint. The girls got into an argument, and then Andy pulled over in the woods. Robin didn't try to warn Barbara about what Andy had said. Instead, she watched as Andy and Barbara got out of the car and walked into a nearby clearing. She listened to the radio while Andy and Barbara got free. Frisky in the woods. But then she heard Barbara scream. She looked over and saw Andy holding a rock over Barbara's head. According to Robin, she turned away before he actually struck her. When Andy got back in the car, he told Robin he wanted to leave Barbara there to crawl away, meaning Barbara may have still been alive when they drove off. He also told Robin that if she ever told anyone what she'd seen, she might be next. After Robin shared her story, the police stayed in close contact with her. But days, then weeks passed and no one could reach Karen. The authorities kept pushing Robin to tell them more. Maybe she knew something about Karen's disappearance too. But Robin wouldn't budge. Finally, two months later, they learned what had happened. On April 13, 19, 1980, a contractor clearing land in the Freetown Fall River Forest found part of a skull. There were also clothes, jewelry, bloody rocks and clumps of hair nearby. It took time to formally match the skull to 20 year old Karen Marsden's medical records. But based on the clothing, the police had a strong feeling it was hers. Karen's worst fears had been realized. Someone had taken her into the woods and murdered her. After Karen's body was discovered, the authorities zeroed in on Robin Murphy. And once again, she threw them for a loop. She refused to talk about Karen, but she did offer a confession about Doreen Levesque. Robin explained that she had known Doreen casually because they worked in the same area when Doreen went missing. Missing six months ago on the night of October 12, 1979. Robin had been out working too. She was with Carl Drew and another man. The three of them were cruising around when they spotted Doreen and asked her to smoke some weed. Doreen didn't know any of them well, but she accepted the invitation. When Carl started pressuring her to work for him, she pushed back and the argument turned ugly. Fast. They ended up parked near the technical school where Carl and the other man dragged her out of the car. Robyn claimed she looked away, but when the story hit the papers, she knew exactly what had happened. In later versions of her story, Robyn admitted she had actually gotten out of the car and helped throw rocks at Doreen. And she dropped a bombshell. Karen Marsden had also been there. According to Robyn, she had also thrown rocks at Doreen. That finally explained why Karen had been so certain Carl killed Doreen, and she'd seen it happen with her own eyes. And it also confirmed something else. Doreen had not worked for Carl Drew. She wasn't in his cult, and she wasn't interested in joining. She was an outsider who had put her trust in the wrong people. Not long after this confession, Robin seemed eager to get even more secrets off her chest. She told the police that, yes, she did have information about Karen's murder, too. Too. The details kept changing, but the other people involved stayed consistent. According to Robin, she was present during the murder, along with Carl Drew, Carol Fletcher, and Carl Davis, another pimp based out of Providence. Carol Fletcher soon backed this up. And then another woman came forward with her own piece of the story. Her name was Lee Johnson. She was a sex worker who'd come to Fall river in April of 1980, months after Karen disappeared. She'd struck up a business relationship with Carl Drew, the same man Robin, Karen, and so many other women had worked for. Lee had heard rumors about what he'd done to Karen, but she just wrote it off as gossip. Until one night that spring. She couldn't deny it any longer. They were doing a combination of hallucinogenic drugs and horse tranquilizer. Carl was extremely high and started opening up. He talked about his childhood, how his father had forced him to help slaughter animals on the family farm from a very young age. Then suddenly, he shifted from talking about killing animals to talking about killing Karen. According to Lee, he said that when Karen left him and the cult, he was furious, she said. He described taking Karen into the the woods, cutting off some of her fingers to steal her rings, and then murdering her. He also told Lee the police would never find Karen's body, though he wouldn't say what he did with it. Lee was incredibly freaked out, especially because Carl had given her a ring when they first met. She was terrified it might be one he'd cut from Karen's hand. When police later confiscated the ring, Lee's fears were confirmed. Karen's grandmother didn't recognize it, but one of Karen's friends did. With that, the police had enough evidence to start making arrests. In early May of 1980, they arrested Carl Drew for the murders of Doreen Levesque and Karen Marsden. They also arrested Carl Davis for the murder of Doreen. And they formally took Robin Murphy and Carol Fletcher into custody for being accessories. The authorities finally thought they had it all figured out. That the killers who'd been terrorizing their town were on their way to facing justice. But there was a problem. The cases all hinged on Robin Murphy's testimony. She claimed to have been present at every single one of these murders. And as the trials drew closer, the people in charge were left wondering, could they actually trust their star witness?
- [32:14]
F
Girl Winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders that perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic with Plan B.
- [32:46]
D
Emergency contraception. We're in control of our future. It's backup birth control you take after unprotected sex that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation and it won't impact your future fertility. Plan B is available in all 50 US states at all major retailers near you with no ID, prescription or age requirement needed. Together we've got this. Follow Plan B on insta at Plan B. One step to learn more. Use as directed.
- [33:15]
A
Hi, Crime House Community, It's Vanessa. Are you interested in the mysterious parts of history? Like when in 1518, an entire European city couldn't stop dancing? Or in 1908, when something flattened over 800 square miles of Siberian forest in an instant. I'm excited to tell you about a new show, hidden history with Dr. Harini Bhatt. Dr. Bhatt has spent her entire career demanding evidence and asking, why? Now, every Monday on Hidden History, she goes where history touches the unknown. Vanished civilizations, doomsday, prophecies, paranormal phenomena and events that science still can't fully explain. Dr. Bott treats these moments like open case files. Not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations waiting for a closer look. At the end of every episode, she'll tell you exactly what she thinks happened and ask, what if it happened today? Hidden History drops every Monday. Follow now On Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. So you never miss a mystery. In May 1980, authorities in Massachusetts thought they'd finally figured out who was responsible for the Fall river cult murders. In the span of a year, three young women and girls had been brutally murdered. 17 year old Doreen Levesque, 20 year old Karen Marsden and 19 year old Barbara Raposa. 44 year old Andy Malte stood trial first for the murder of his ex girlfriend Barbara. The proceedings began in January of 1981. On the stand he repeated the story he'd told detectives that he only knew about the murder weapon and the location of Barbara's body because of a psychic dream. The jury didn't buy it and on January, February 30, Andy was found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. He died behind bars seven years later in 1988. The next trial was much less cut and dry. 24 year old cult leader Carl Drew was being tried for the murder of Karen Marsden. And leading up to the proceedings, the cooperating witnesses were an absolute message. Carol Fletcher changed her story multiple times. But once she settled on aversion, she was given full immunity in exchange for her testimony. Carl Davis, the other man accused of being present at Karen's murder, petitioned for and was granted a separate trial which would take place later. But he also agreed to testify at alleged cult leader Carl Drew's trial. The most unpredictable witness was Robin Murphy, Carl's 17 year old former follower and Karen's girlfriend. She gave several different accounts of what happened. In one version, she even claimed she had killed Karen herself because she was in love with another woman and wanted Karen out of the way. In the end, she settled on a version of events in which she was an active participant in Karen's murder. Because of that, she was offered a deal. She agreed to plead plead guilty to second degree murder rather than risk going to trial for first degree. She was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole in 15 years. But for prosecutors, the biggest challenge was yet to come. Making sure she stuck to her story during Carl Drew's trial. The proceedings began on March 2, 1981. The next day the courtroom was informed that Carl had also been indicted by the New Bedford court for the murder of Doreen Levesque. He wasn't going to trial for that murder yet, but the judge allowed the indictment as evidence of a possible motive for killing Karen, since Karen witnessed him killing Doreen during the trial. Carol Fletcher, who arranged that first meeting with the detectives, and Lee Johnson, the woman who Carl gave the ring to both testified. But the version of Karen's death that has been told over and over again, the version that lives on in infamy, is the one Robin Murphy delivered on the stand. It goes like this. On February 8, 1980, after Karen and Robin finished visiting Karen's son and his foster parents, Karen said she was going out to work. Robin told her she shouldn't, that it was dangerous because Carl was making threats. But Karen said it was a busy night, she'd be fine. Later that evening, Robin was riding in a car with her friend Carol Fletcher. They drove past Karen on the street and told her to get in. Karen did, but around 8pm they got stuck in traffic. That's when they happened to pass Carl Drew and Carl Davis on the sidewalk. Both men climbed in before the girls could drive away. Carl Drew directed Carol out of town, then turned to Karen and told her her time had come. Robin was terrified of Carl and genuinely believed he had the devil on his side. So when Carol pulled off near the woods, Robin did what she was told. What followed was brutal. Robin dragged Karen into the woods, where Carl cut off one or more of her fingers and pocketed the ring he later gave to Lee. Then he and Robin pelted Karen with rocks. Carol and Carl Davis watched as Carl mutilated Karen's body, ordered Robin to perform sexual acts on her corpse, and ultimately to decapitate her. Then he conjured the devil, offered Karen's soul to Satan and smeared her blood on Robin's forehead. Carol Fletcher told a similar story, but contradicted Robin on a key detail. Carol said Carl didn't order Robin to slit Karen's throat. She said Robin kept a knife strapped to her thigh and that she'd pulled it out and killed Karen all on her own. When it was Carl Drew's turn to take the stand, he told yet another version of events. He said he'd dated Karen and that she'd briefly worked for him before going her own way. But he insisted he hadn't seen her since the summer of 1979. Carl also flat out denied being a Satanist and said he definitely wasn't a cult leader. That claim backfired. The court ordered him to remove his jacket and show the courtroom his tattoos. Carl had the word hate tattooed across his knuckles and a large tattoo of Satan on his forearm. But the presiding judge told the courtroom they weren't there to prosecute someone for their religion, no matter what it was. Throughout the proceedings, he kept things focused on the evidence, and there really wasn't Much to go on. Besides the skull fragment found in the forest and the ring from Lee the there was nothing else tying Carl to the scene of the crime. The case against him hinged almost entirely on the testimony of Carol Fletcher Lee Johnson and most of all, Robin Murphy. Carl Davis was supposed to testify, but when his turn came, he pleaded the fifth. He'd changed his mind about taking the stand. Still between Robin and Carol, the jury found it convincing enough. On March 14, 19, 1981, Carl Drew was found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. Carl Davis still had to face his own trial for being present at Karen's murder. But Robin was the key witness. And right after Carl Drew's trial ended, she started changing her story again and again and again. One of her later parole applications put it bluntly. It described a bizarre series of recantations followed by recantations of the recantations. It said Robin's zigzags, u turns and reversals were extremely difficult to follow. But the conclusion was clear. Robin Murphy was, quote, a dangerously selfish person who had little concern for the victims, the victims families, justice, the criminal justice system system or the people whose reputations she tried to smear with her lies. End quote. Because of that, the case against Carl Davis fell apart. He never went to trial for Karen's murder. Then In January of 1983, the trial for Doreen Levesque's murder was abandoned entirely, largely because Robin kept changing her story. To this day, Doreen leave murder remains officially unsolved. In 2004, Robin was paroled after 23 years behind bars. But in 2011, she was sent back to prison for violating the terms of her release. Just recently, she was granted parole again in 2024. Carl Drew has also fought his conviction numerous times over the years. Most of those appeals went nowhere. But In August of 2025, he won a court case granting him access to previously classified material about the case. Even back in 1981, there were theories that Robin Murphy was the one behind everything. Or at the very least, that Carl Drew may not have gotten a fair trial. Now that Carl and others are taking a second look at the evidence, who knows what new information might come to light? I want to take a second here to acknowledge that this is an incredibly complicated story, but I'd love to know what you all think really happened. Did Carl Drew kill Karen Marsden? Who killed Doreen Levesque? Was Robin herself directly responsible for any or maybe all of these murders? Let us know in the comments, wherever you listen. The Fall River Cult murders are a reminder that during the Satanic panic, there were actually some very real cults to panic about. So for Cult Watch this week, I want to talk about a kind of modern equivalent. We're spotlighting a terrifying group known as 764. It's what's known as a nihilistic, violent extremist group. Their goal is to facilitate chaos and destabilize society. They recruit primarily through Discord and other online chat forums targeting young people. Members seek out minors online and encourage children to self harm or to hurt their siblings or family pets. Some use blackmail to get victims to comply, threatening to dox them or swat them. Some of the group's leaders have been caught and prosecuted. In December of the 2025, one leader named Alexis Chavez pleaded guilty to racketeering charges. Throughout 2023 and 2024, Chavez had coerced miners around the globe to commit acts of self harm. He also groomed several underage girls and forced them to perform explicit acts on camera. But the group is so scattered across the world that prosecuting all the members, let alone the leadership, is an enormous task. The FBI has been issuing warnings about 764 over the past year as the group grows increasingly dangerous. As of 2026, they say they're investigating over 350 people in connection with this cult. Like the Fall river cult decades before it, 764 preys on vulnerable people, people who are searching for belonging but end up finding something far more sinister instead. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Vanessa Richardson and this is Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes. Come back next time. We'll decode the episode together and hear another story about the real people at the center of the world's most notorious cults, conspiracies and criminal acts. Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media, Rimehouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review and follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes Crimes. Wherever you get your podcasts, your feedback truly makes a difference. And to enhance your Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad free. We'll be back on Friday. Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and is a Crime House Original powered by paves2studios. This episode was brought to life by the Conspiracy Theories Cults and Crimes team Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Natalie Pertzovsky, Lori Marinelli, Sarah Camp, Alyssa Fox, Bethany Branson, Leah Roche, Kaylee Pine and Michael Langsner. Thank you for listening.
- [46:40]
G
Your next chapter in healthcare starts at Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland. Join us for our house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm you'll tour our campus, see live demos, meet instructors and learn about our Associate Degree in Nursing program that prepares you to become a registered nurse. Take the first step toward your nursing career. Save your spot now@carrington.edu events. For information on program outcomes, visit carrington.edu sci.
- [47:12]
A
Looking for your next listen? Check out hidden history with Dr. Harini Bhatti every Monday. Dr. Bot goes where history gets mysterious vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies and events that science still can't fully explain. Follow Hidden History now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.