From Crime House: Crimes Of... with Sabrina Deana-Roga and Corinne Vien

Summary

Podcast Summary: Conspiracy Theories, Cults, & Crimes

Episode: From Crime House: Crimes Of... with Sabrina Deana-Roga and Corinne Vien
Date: November 17, 2025
Special Feature: Crimes Of Paranormal: The “Devil Made Me Do It” Case (Arne Cheyenne Johnson)

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Overview

This episode is a gripping look into one of the most infamous intersections between true crime and the paranormal: the 1981 murder trial of Arne Cheyenne Johnson, known as the "Devil Made Me Do It" case. Hosts Sabrina Deana-Roga and Corinne Vien explore whether Johnson’s claim of demonic possession during the fatal stabbing of his landlord, Alan Bono, holds water—or if it’s an extreme case of criminal defense. Through first-person storytelling, discussion of the family’s trauma, and debate over paranormal vs. psychological explanations, the episode invites listeners to question: Where do you draw the line between the unexplainable and the criminal?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & Framing the Season

• The hosts introduce “Crimes Of Paranormal,” a season dedicated to true crime cases with unexplainable, supernatural elements. They set an open-minded but questioning tone.
• [02:14] “...we will be exploring the intersection of true crime and the paranormal.” (Sabrina)
• A preamble game of “Would you rather?” frames the horror of the case (possession vs. witnessing a loved one possessed).

The Murder: What Happened?

• [06:05] Arne Cheyenne Johnson, a 19-year-old in Brookfield, Connecticut, stabbed his landlord, Alan Bono, to death in 1981. Johnson would later claim he was not in control—"the devil made me do it."
• Hosts recognize the tragedy foremost: “40 year old Alan Bono had a full life to live and it was cut short in a cold blooded act of violence by someone he thought he could trust.” (Sabrina, [06:35])
• Initial evidence (knife at the scene, eyewitnesses) pointed to a crime of passion; only later would the claim of demonic possession arise.

Enter the Paranormal: David Glatzel’s Possession

• The real story began months earlier, when Debbie Glatzel’s younger brother, 12-year-old David, began experiencing terrifying supernatural phenomena after a strange encounter in a new house ([12:29] onwards).
• David reported being shoved by invisible hands and seeing a man with pure black eyes who told him to “Beware.” ([14:59])
• Family initially suspected imagination, but David’s fear was unwavering, leading to escalating phenomena: extreme night terrors, levitating objects, and physical attacks on David.
• The case quickly escalates to poltergeist activity, with the entire family bearing witness and feeling endangered by “something evil.”

The Warrens and the Exorcism

• The Glatzel family called Ed and Lorraine Warren (of Conjuring fame), who assessed David and claimed he was in active demonic possession.
• The Warrens documented his episodes and advised the family to do the same for potential approval of a church exorcism ([27:28]).
• [28:57] The recording session: After being challenged to knock three times, unseen knocks shook the house, terrifying all present.
• Lorraine Warren described seeing a “black cloud” around David and declared it demonic, not ghostly ([31:12]).
• The Warrens outlined their five-stage model of possession: invitation, infestation, oppression, possession, and death.

The Turning Point: Arne's Sacrifice

• Despite skepticism, boyfriend Arne Cheyenne Johnson was deeply affected and present for exorcism attempts.
• During a violent exorcism at St. Joseph’s Church, Arne, in desperation, reportedly invited the demon to take him: “I’m here. Take me on.” ([44:45])
• Lorraine Warren allegedly warned police her visions showed someone would die by knife and asked them to watch Arne ([49:52]).

The Murder and Trial

• In the following months, Arne exhibited odd behavior (blank staring, growling under his breath) but nothing alarming—until he killed Alan Bono on February 16, 1981, after a tense confrontation ([51:25]-[54:27]).
• Arne claimed amnesia regarding the murder. His defense, unprecedented in US courts, pled not guilty by reason of demonic possession.
• The judge ruled that such a defense was inadmissible. The defense pivoted to self-defense, citing Alan’s drunken behavior and aggression ([61:21]-[62:16]).
• Arne was convicted of manslaughter and served 5 years in prison.

Aftermath and Lingering Questions

• Arne re-entered society, married Debbie, and had a quiet life post-release, reportedly free of any further incidents or mental health crises—raising questions about schizophrenia as a cause ([62:47]-[63:36]).
• The Glatzel family remains divided; David and his mother believed in possession, while brother Carl and father Carl Sr. maintained it was a hoax, blaming the Warrens' suggestibility and possible motives for profit ([64:30]-[68:27]).
• The episode debates whether the presence of the Warrens (and their subsequent book deals) created suggestion or enabled dramatic embellishment.

The Pop Culture Legacy

• The case has inspired films (“The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It”), books, and documentaries, though the hosts critique the Hollywoodized version for losing the true emotional and ambiguous complexity ([71:51]-[72:34]).

Open-Ended Debate

• Both hosts, while open to the paranormal, end uncertain: Was it selfless intervention gone tragically wrong, mental illness, or a genuine case of demonic possession?
• “We don’t know. And I think that’s the hardest part about the paranormal. Also some of the most exciting parts...” (Sabrina, [71:03])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Possession vs. Witnessing:
  “I'd rather be possessed. Because the trauma of someone you love being possessed sounds so scary and I could use a break sometimes.”
  —Sabrina Deana-Roga ([02:53])
• Describing David’s Encounter:
  "There, staring right at him, was a man. His eyes were pure black, like two opaque stones...and then it spoke one single word: 'Beware.'"
  —Corinne Vien ([14:59])
• Exorcism Climax:
  “With the crucifix still pressed against David's forehead, Arnie cries out, 'Leave this little kid alone. I'm here. Take me on.' Suddenly, Arnie feels his body go ice cold.”
  —Corinne Vien ([44:45])
• Questioning the Paranormal:
  “I used to always be the biggest advocate that yes, 100% the devil made him do it in this case. But I started questioning...there’s a lot more...that I didn’t know previously.”
  —Sabrina Deana-Roga ([07:53])
• Addressing Mental Illness:
  “After he's released from prison...he moved on with his life...If it was schizophrenia, you don't just go to jail for five years, come out, and all of a sudden your schizophrenia is gone.”
  —Sabrina Deana-Roga ([62:47])
• Skeptical Perspective:
  “Carl, the brother, does say he very much believes...Ed and Lorraine Warren came in, basically described everything that will happen during a possession case, and then like clockwork, all of those things started happening and were being exhibited by David.”
  —Sabrina Deana-Roga ([64:53])
• On Uncertainty:
  “Even now, it's hard to know for sure what happened...Was Arne just a killer? Or was he the victim of a vengeful demon? And the answer to that question depends on who you ask.”
  —Corinne Vien ([72:56])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:45] | Episode Introduction – Setting up “Crimes Of Paranormal” | | [06:05] | The Murder: Arne Johnson, Alan Bono, and “The Devil Defense” | | [12:29] | David Glatzel’s Initial Possession in the New House | | [24:05] | Calling Ed and Lorraine Warren | | [28:57] | First Serious Paranormal Encounter (3 knocks) | | [39:09] | The Exorcism at St. Joseph’s Church | | [44:45] | Arne Invites the Demon; Turning Point | | [49:52] | Lorraine Warns Police about Arne | | [51:25] | Arne’s Behavior Post-Exorcism Leads to Murder | | [61:21] | The Trial and the Dismissal of the Demon Defense | | [64:30] | The Glatzel Family Splits on Explanations | | [71:51] | The Case in Popular Culture/Conjuring Movie Reference | | [72:56] | Concluding Reflections and Unanswered Questions |

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Tone & Host Dynamics

• The hosts balance open-minded engagement with skepticism; they are self-aware “believers” but also dissect flaws, biases, and psychological/suggestive factors.
• They use humor and personal anecdotes, but are clear-eyed about the human tragedy and family trauma at the core of the case.

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Conclusion

This episode vividly reenacts and critically examines one of America’s strangest, most controversial legal defenses: Could someone truly be driven to murder by supernatural forces? With dramatic narration, authentic debate, and plenty of cultural context, it invites listeners not only to question the existence of the paranormal—but to sympathize with real people wrestling with horror, loss, and the unknown.

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Listener Takeaway:
You’ll come away knowing the full story of the "Devil Made Me Do It" case, armed with both chilling details and a nuanced understanding of the debate between the impossible and the explainable—plus a few good movie recommendations.

Transcript

[Vanessa Richardson]

Hi Crime House Community, it's Vanessa Richardson. And if you love digging into the most gripping true crime stories, then you need to listen to another Crime House original, Crimes of with Sabrina Deanna Roga and Corinne Vien. Crimes of is a weekly series that explores a new theme each season from Crimes of Paranormal, unsolved murders, mysterious disappearances, and more. Sabrina and Corinne have been covering the true stories behind Hollywood's most iconic horror villains. And this month the they'll be diving into the paranormal listen to Crimes of every Tuesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Vanessa Richardson. If you're loving conspiracy theories, cults and crimes, you need to check out the newest season of Crimes of from Crime House. Hosted by Sabrina Deanna Roga and Corinne Vien of Two Girls One ghost, Craig. Crimes of is a weekly true crime anthology series that explores a new theme each season from Crimes of the Paranormal, unsolved murders, celebrity downfalls and more. For their newest season, Sabrina and Corinne are diving into Crimes of Paranormal where they'll be exploring cases where the evidence doesn't end at blood stains and fingerprints, but drifts into the unexplainable, into the unknown. I'm excited to share an episode of Crimes of Paranormal with you. If you like what you hear, search Crimes of wherever you listen to podcasts to hear more episodes. Make sure to follow the show so you don't miss a new episode. Here it is now.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

This is Crime House.

[Corinne Vien]

Sabrina. Yes, we are kicking off a brand new season, which means it's time to start a new game.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I can't believe we're already into season two. And this season is very, very close to home for us Ghost girls. Even my socks are in the spirit. They got pumpkins on them. Ooh. Because this season, for the next eight episodes, we will be exploring the intersection of true crime and the paranormal.

[Corinne Vien]

I love this.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So before we get into the episode, we're going to play a game of Would you rather we're going to pick two shocking moments from each story and see which one we think is the lesser of two evils.

[Corinne Vien]

Okay. Today we we are covering the story of Arne Cheyenne Johnson, the man behind the so called devil made me do it trial. So, Sabrina, here are your choices.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Give them to me.

[Corinne Vien]

Would you rather be possessed by 42 demons or watch your 12 year old brother's eyes turn completely black as multiple voices speak through him?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Both are pretty traumatizing.

[Corinne Vien]

I'd argue you did experience almost a version of one of these already.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Which is so funny cause I was gonna choose the opposite. I was gonna choose I'd rather be possessed. Because the trauma of someone you love being possessed sounds so scary and I could use a break sometimes. But you're right, I kind of did experience the other.

[Corinne Vien]

Sabrina's sister was maybe nearly possessed or at one time possessed.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And also my dad might be possessed.

[Corinne Vien]

There's a lot to talk about with the paranormal. But yeah, there's no good choice here, right?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

No, not at all. And both of these things are something that Arne Cheyenne Johnson had to face himself because after his girlfriend's little brother became possessed by a demon, or potentially 42 demons, Arnie asked them to take him instead.

[Corinne Vien]

And if he's to be believed, these dark entities drove him to take a man's life.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

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[Corinne Vien]

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[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

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[Corinne Vien]

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[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

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[Corinne Vien]

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[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

They don't know what insurance is.

[Corinne Vien]

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[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Welcome to Crimes of the Paranormal, a crime house original powered by Pave Studios, where your hosts Sabrina Dianna Roga and Corinne Vien.

[Corinne Vien]

Every Tuesday, we're exploring a different corner of the true crime universe, examining cases that left a permanent impact on society. This season we are diving into cases where the evidence doesn't end up bloodstains and fingerprints, but drifts into the unexplainable, into the unknown. This season is about crimes with a paranormal element. These are real life stories where fact and folklore collide, where the impossible demands to be considered possible. Cases that force us to question, what do you really believe?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

If you're loving crimes of Please follow rate and review us wherever you listen. It helps us build this community and we love hearing from you. To get early access and ad free listening, subscribe to the Crime House plus community on Apple Podcasts. You can also catch us on YouTube where we include visuals that bring every case to life.

[Corinne Vien]

Today we're talking about 19 year old Arne Cheyenne Johnson and his 1981 murder trial in Brookfield, Connecticut. In a violent fit of anger, he stabbed his landlord to death. But in court, Arnie stunned the world with his defense. He claimed he was innocent because a demon made him do it. A warning before we begin. This episode contains descriptions of murder, violence and the endangerment of a minor.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

On February 16, 1981, Arne Cheyenne Johnson killed his landlord and friend Alan Bono by stabbing him to death. As always, it is important for us to pause here and recognize the senseless tragedy of this event. 40 year old Alan Bono had a full life to live and it was cut short in a cold blooded act of violence by someone he thought he could trust.

[Corinne Vien]

The severity of Arnie's crimes were shocking enough. But what really brought this case to the public's attention was the defense that his legal team chose.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Arnie and his lawyers declared that his murderous act wasn't the decision of a heartless murderer, but the result of demonic possession. Quite literally. Arne Cheyenne Johnson claimed, quote, the devil made me do it. And this isn't just an outlandish attempt to win a murder trial. There's a whole, whole lot of evidence and a ton of witnesses to back it up.

[Corinne Vien]

And if you know anything about us, we wholeheartedly believe in the paranormal. We've experienced the paranormal. Y it's kind of all consuming in our lives. And I'll say up front, I do think the devil made him do it.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I have a lot.

[Corinne Vien]

Is that a proper English sentence? I'm not sure, but I.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Were you just possessed?

[Corinne Vien]

I might have been.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I will say I used to always be the biggest advocate that yes, 100% the devil made him do it in this case. But I started questioning and we could talk about it a little bit more because we learned a lot more while preparing for this episode that I don't think I knew previously. That makes me question what was really going on.

[Corinne Vien]

Oh, interesting. I already wanna go back and forth, but we have to, we have to let you guys in on the story now too.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yes.

[Corinne Vien]

So whether or not you believe in the paranormal, the case of Arne Cheyenne Johnson is terrifying. Either a demon really did force this young man to murder his own friend.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Or it was nothing more than a delusion. And like we've already made very clear, we're pro paranormal, we believe. But one thing was for sure.

[Corinne Vien]

Arne Cheyenne Johnson was a killer. It's late on the night of February 16, 1981. A 19 year old boy stumbles down a quiet road in Brookfield, Connecticut. He looks dazed, lost in some fog no one else can see. All of the sudden headlights wash over him as an ambulance passes by. The driver does a double take when he sees this young man. He knows who he is. That is Arne Cheyenne Johnson and he's suspected of stabbing the man this driver just took to the hospital. The driver radios the police and they descend on the scene. Arnie lets them take him to the station without a fight. When Detective Glen Cooper books him, he feels like something about Arnie seems off. Detective Cooper sizes up this young man from behind the mugshot camera and Arnie looks messy, confused. His blonde hair is in a tangled nest on top of his head and sure he looks like maybe he'd had a rough night. But Detective Cooper wonders to himself, could this kid really be a murderer? As Cooper sets up the mugshot camera, he sees that Arnie's energy is fading. Eventually Arnie can't even stand up on his own and he has to sit down on a bench to just catch his breath. He sits there for a while, silent and visibly weakened. And something in him seems to have shifted, staring at him with an innocent perplexed expression. And he asks Cooper, quote, why am I here? What's going on? The detective is completely confounded by this question, but still in an even voice he responds, well, you just killed your friend.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And this is true. 19 year old Arne Cheyenne Johnson claimed that he has no memory, doesn't remember stabbing his landlord to death. But the evidence is undeniable. Arnie's pocket knife was found at the scene. They were also witnesses and police determined that this pocket knife was the murder weapon that killed Alan Bono. And at first it really did seem like a standard homicide. A fit of rage gone wrong, a crime of passion. And that Arnie was simply in shock, unable to process the horrible act of violence that he had committed. Arne's girlfriend, Debbie Glatzel told the police that on the night of the murder, Alan Bono had become drunk and belligerent and that Arne had been upset with Allan. So on its face it seemed like a pretty open and shut case. That is until Arnie's lawyer announced that his client would not be pleading guilty due to demonic possession, which naturally, as you would expect, that created quite the media frenzy. Possession, Murder by demonic possession. The devil made me do it. I mean, that was unheard of.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, but just because it's unheard of, it doesn't make it impossible.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right?

[Corinne Vien]

Does it? So as a duo, we have spent eight years researching paranormal cases. Our whole lives have been about the paranormal. We grew up in haunted homes, so we don't think it's impossible. And this is one of those cases that we will quite literally never forget.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

We actually covered it, believe it or not, in one of our most haunted episodes, if not the most haunted episode of Two Girls One Ghost. Episode 12, Dominus.

[Corinne Vien]

Way back when, first year of podcasting.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

When I listened to that episode, I literally wanted to hug old baby me and be like, it's okay. I sound so insecure, like I don't know, like I don't know how to speak, even though I did the research.

[Corinne Vien]

But we gave way more detail here as well. We're really dissecting this case. Yes. So to understand how things got here and why Arnie claimed that he had been possessed, we have to go back to where the possessions began. Because it didn't start with Arnie. It began with a little boy named David Glatzel.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

On July 2, 1980, 19 year old Arne Cheyenne Johnson and his girlfriend, who's 26 years old, Debbie Glatzel, had just rented a house together in Newtown, Connecticut. And up until this point, the couple had lived a very happy, uneventful life. Arnie worked as a landscaper, Debbie was a dog groomer, and prior to getting this house together, they had lived for some time with Debbie's family. But now they're like so excited to finally have a place of their own. It was a dream home. It's this beautiful single story with green shutters. Plus it's still close to Debbie's family who lives just one town over in Brookfield. So they're like, we can visit all the time. Great. Here they are. New beginnings. What could possibly go wrong?

[Corinne Vien]

What could go wrong? What a sentence to say to the universe and tempt the demons that are always listening.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Always, always.

[Corinne Vien]

So Debbie's family, they came by to celebrate the move, help them clean up the house, and this included Debbie's mom and her three younger brothers, Alan, Carl and David. 12 year old David was asked to sweep up the primary bedroom all by himself, which wasn't weird, but it's not until weird. Yeah, it's not weird. It became weird, but it's not weird. He's alone. And meanwhile, Debbie rolled up her sleeve. She's taking care of other cleaning that needed to be done. And for a while, everyone's just going about their business. The house is calm. But then everything changed so little.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

David. 12 year old David is upstairs sweeping their primary bedroom all alone, when all of a sudden he starts to feel like something is in the room with him. It's that feeling. And we talk about this a lot, but you know, you get that feeling when someone's looking at you. You can just feel it even when.

[Corinne Vien]

Your eyes are closed and you just like know there's someone else.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah. And also he's in a house with a lot of his family members. So like at first he's probably thinking.

[Corinne Vien]

One of his brothers, someone's up here.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So he like turns around and looks, no one's there.

[Corinne Vien]

Right.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

He tries to shake this feeling off. He keeps sweeping, but that sense just keeps growing stronger and stronger. It's like alarm bells were ringing in his ears that someone or something was looking at him and approaching him. And all of a sudden he feels it. Hands shove him with such intense force that he is thrown onto the bed. He lays there in shock, but he's like, of course it has to be one of my siblings. Right? But he would have had to be able to see then run away.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. It's not like he was at the edge of the doorway and he got shoved. And even then you'd hear someone run away. Yes.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And he looked around, certain he would catch whoever did this. And that is when he saw him.

[Corinne Vien]

There, staring right at him, was a man. His eyes were pure black, like two opaque stones. And he was staring right at David. The stranger silently watched this young boy for a few moments. And then it spoke one single word.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Beware. Beware.

[Corinne Vien]

Yes.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So you bet your butt David jumped off that bet. And he starts running. He doesn't stop running until he is outside of that house. And obviously noticing the commotion, both Debbie and her mother Judy, follow David outside. And they find him sitting under a tree, visibly upset. And they're like, what's wrong? But David is so startled and so in shock of what he just experienced that he won't say anything. He just kept repeating that he wanted to go home. Now, both Debbie and Judy were confused, but there was no reasoning with him. So Judy rounded up the rest of her sons, got them in the car, and they all drove back to the Glatzels house in Brookfield, Connecticut.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah. And for hours, David would not talk about what happened to him up in the bedroom. But later that night, Arnie and Debbie drove to the Glatzel's house to have dinner with the family. And this is when they all sit down for dinner. And David's just noticeably shaken still. He's being weird and he's not talking, and his moodiness is being felt by everyone around him. And his brother is finally fed up with him. Shout, what is wrong with you? And that is when he told his family about the man and the ominous warning to beware.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

We'll talk about this a little bit more later, but a lot of the family thought that David is just being dramatic. And David's brother Carl, and their father, Carl Sr. Specifically, these are the two who, like, even to this day, don't really believe in possession.

[Corinne Vien]

I know that after all of this that they.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

They still don't believe it.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But out of curiosity and sympathy, the family does start asking David more questions. And specifically, his mother Judy is really trying to, like, take care of her son. Right? So she's asking David what this entity was warning him about. And, like, what did beware mean? Does David know? And without hesitation, David looks up and said, quote, he wants my soul. Which is so sad and 12 years old.

[Corinne Vien]

Right?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Like, sure, kids have great imaginations, but this is really, really dark and ominous.

[Corinne Vien]

Right? But you can also understand why everyone's a little bit skeptical. Cause, like, this seems like it kind of came out of left field a little bit, which to some people, you might be like, oh, well, that's reason to believe this child. But for others, it's like, okay, what's with the theatrics?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Like, I also imagine this is like. I mean, it is a larger family. And I'm just picturing they tease each other, all three brothers, right? And, like, even me, I was such a sensitive kid. And when I was growing up, I would say, you know, I would share my plights with my family around the dinner table and I would get made fun of. Or it got to the point where, like, I would run from the table crying that my dad called me lma, because I would say, leave me alone so much. Like, so I just imagine there's a level of that with this family where they're like, oh, my God, David, stop being dramatic.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. Hopefully the older sister protected him a little bit. I don't know. But even Arnie made a joke asking David if he'd gotten into the medicine cabinet and had taken something.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

But David said no. And. Sorry. I just, like, my mind just went to, like, them being like, david, are you on drugs. And it's like the only drug in the medicine cabinet was like the Flintstone vitamins. That was just my mind wandering. Well, there's actually, I got distracted.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

A whole theory that we'll talk about in a little bit about Benadryl, so.

[Corinne Vien]

Oh, I thought I was like, about the Flintstone vitamins you give four year olds.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

They call it possessions.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Fact checked. Not, not, not, not. Fact.

[Corinne Vien]

Okay. But David's like, no, I'm not on drugs. And so the family wasn't really ready yet to believe that there was an apparition that their child slash brother saw this man standing there. But something really did spook him. And he's 12, so it's not like he's like 3 years old. Right. Like he's a formed human being and.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

He'S sticking to it. It's not like this thing happened and he shrugged it off and he's totally fine. Like he's continuing to be really scared by this experience still.

[Corinne Vien]

They're kind of leaning towards the direction of like, okay, David's imagination got the best of him. He was upstairs in this new house and he's spooked by it. Right. But David was still so shaken up by this to the point that Debbie and Arnie were actually concerned and they decided to cancel their lease. That proves to me that they really truly did believe that there was something and maybe they had some weird feelings in the house already.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yep.

[Corinne Vien]

So they canceled their lease and decided to stay at the family home until David was feeling better. The family went to bed that night thinking that all of this would be over come morning. But as David lay in his bed that night, that sinking feeling of someone watching him returned. And this time it felt heavier, more loaded. Like someone or something was coming. Poor David hardly slept that night. With TikTok ads, our revenue went up $10 million year over year during back to school season. Penn Foster is online education. TikTok is great because the reach is incredible for finding a lot of different types of audiences on the platform. Creator content at scale allowed us to easily develop and distribute creator led ads. Our return on ad spend for TikTok is 21% higher than the next best channel. Start growing your business today. Head over to get started.TikTok.com tiktokads hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

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[Corinne Vien]

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[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com and the following day, the Glatils still weren't sure what to make of David's story. But he's adamant that whatever he saw at that rental home had followed him home and wanted him. And he really wanted his mom to help him. So Judy, being a good mother, the family is Catholic. She was like, it doesn't hurt to have the house blessed just in case. And if it's going to help David just feel more at peace, why not? So they have a priest come over who walks through the house, walks through every room, sprinkles holy water. And so even if David's visions were just in his imagination, the Glatzels figured this would bring him peace. But they were very, very, very, very wrong. Because sometime around three in the morning, the screaming started.

[Corinne Vien]

Judy Glatzel springs awake, her blood running cold. At the sound of her son's cries, she rushes out of bed. She runs down to David's room and there is her youngest son, sitting upright in bed, screaming into the dark. By this point, David has woken up everyone in the house and now they're all gathered in his room. But before Judy can try to calm him, she now hears a new sound in the room. The gnawing, rumbling growl of some terrible beast. Judy can't find the source of this noise and it feels like it's coming from everywhere, like an enormous creature is just trying to devour the entire house. She looks around in mounting horror as the pictures start to shake against the walls. The sound grows louder and louder, sending objects teetering across David's dresser. Judy flinches as she hears the sound of glasses break in the kitchen and David's screams start morphing into sentences. Now he looks desperately around to his family, shouting, he's here.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

He's here.

[Corinne Vien]

He's coming to punish me. Judy pulls David out of bed and with the rest of the family in tow, they rush out of the room. It's like an earthquake is ripping the apart and David keeps screaming, it's evil.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

It's evil.

[Corinne Vien]

And the family is now in full panic. There's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to hide. And then all of a sudden, the rumbling stops.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I read something that some of the family members literally felt like a massive Semi truck had, like, driven into the house or something. That's how much force and shaking it there was.

[Corinne Vien]

I can picture it like, I can feel the rumbling. Yeah.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And this sudden silence was deafening. So it went from complete chaos to just like a silence that made you feel unsettled. There the Glatzel family is standing together, too terrified to move. And as they look at each other, they can feel that something definitely did just shift in the house. And if they had any doubt about David's visions before this changed everything for almost everyone, there was no denying that there was an evil entity in this house. And to get rid of it, the Glatzels needed some serious help.

[Corinne Vien]

And in the 1980s, two names were synonymous with paranormal investigation. Ed and Lorraine Warren.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yes.

[Corinne Vien]

Nowadays, this couple is very well known thanks to the horrifying movie series, the Conjuring Films. And the Warrens are the main characters in that series. And actually, the Conjuring House is the very first house Sabrina and I did an overnight paranormal investigation in.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And it was pretty fun. No possessions to report. But there is a lot of controversy surrounding Ed and Lorraine Warren. We're not going to get into too much because I feel like that could be a whole episode in itself. But ultimately, I believe they did really want to help people who were dealing with and battling with spirits and spiritual attacks. They wanted to help get rid of unwanted possessions and hauntings. But then the way they went about it is perhaps questionable in some cases.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. But back in the 80s, they were real life celebrities in the paranormal world. They participated in hundreds of exorcisms. They had over 3,000 supernatural cases under their belts. Wild. And they were frequent guests on talk shows. And they even had a phone line open for people to call and ask.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

For their help, which is another thing that comes up with controversy between them. It's like, oh, they did all this for fame. But also, if you are in the spiritual world, like, we have a podcast about the paranormal, like, yeah, are we.

[Corinne Vien]

Doing it for fame? We're doing it because it's. We like it to talk about.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

And also the Warrens had a whole team, too. So it's not necessarily Ed and Lorraine showing up to every case. It could be someone else on their team as well.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

They had priests going places.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, right.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

At the time that this potentially demonic possession and poltergeist case starts to take shape, the Warrens had just done a ton of work on the Amityville Horror House, and that garnered a lot more publicity for them.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

They also live pretty close to where The Glatzel family is. So this is why after everything that the family is experiencing with young David, Debbie Glatzel thought, let's call in the Warrens for assistance. She was hoping that they could help remove the spirit that was terrorizing her 12 year old brother, David. And by this point it was more than just seeing a demon like figure in the shadows. David was being tormented daily. He was developing mysterious cuts, bruises and scratches overnight. He was being choked and beaten by unseen forces. And more than anything, poor David is terrified. Like we said, if it was a hoax or just him being dramatic in the very beginning or coming up with something to like get attention from his family, he wouldn't have carried it on and it wouldn't have escalated to this point where he's being physically attacked.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. And what's so wild about this too, because I guess we're coming into this having eight years of paranormal research under our belts. And so it is so fascinating to me that this went from like 0 to 100. It did normally in some sort of like poltergeist demonic possession case or like a hopeful possession case from the demon's point of view.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

We're talking from demons pov.

[Corinne Vien]

They're hoping normally there's a slower burn and they feed on the fear. They eat away. They isolate one single member. But this was like 0 to 100 from the beginning. It was like this thing, whether it was that person that said beware or not, in that one instance of entering this home that they're no longer in.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right.

[Corinne Vien]

That thing immediately attached to David followed him and just like full force is attacking this poor child.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Well, as we'll learn, it might not be just one entity, but so fortunately the Warrens do agree to take on the case. And on July 14, 1980, Ed and Lorraine Warren arrive at the Glatzel family home in Brookfield, Connecticut. And they did bring a doctor along with them because they wanted to be certain to rule out any medical ailments or causes behind all of this. Before they were like, yes, absolutely, this is a possession.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. And that's something that like the church and the diocese would do often too. They usually try to rule out every single possibility, including mental illnesses.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right.

[Corinne Vien]

Before declaring this paranormal, which is something we are not guilty of, we normally just declare ghosts ghost.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Well, I think specifically when it comes to listeners who email us the stories because like, who are we to say that their experience is not.

[Corinne Vien]

No. Why would they be listening or emailing us if they weren't?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But so they have a doctor there, the doctor takes David's vitals, he performs some psychological tests and everything seems completely normal. And as things evolve, the Warrens really feel like something paranormal might be going on here. Lorraine Warren was a, as she claimed, a clairvoyant who hoped to commune with whatever entity was causing these problems with David. So the Warrens sat down with David at a kitchen table, with the rest of the family joining in for emotional support. And once everyone was settled, the Warrens turned on a tape recorder and began the session.

[Corinne Vien]

David sits stiffly in his chair, hands clasped in his lap, his knuckles white. The boy looks pale, eyes ringed in dark circles as though he hasn't slept in a week. Across from him, Ed and Lorraine Warren keep their voices low and careful. They begin with some simple Is the man with you right now? Lorraine Warren wants to speak with the spirit, but to do that she and Ed need to coax it out. Ed, a self proclaimed demonologist, takes the lead. His voice steady, deliberate. He begins simply. This bad man, the one who has been doing all the terrible things. Did he speak to you today? The boy says yes. The spirit had told him that he wanted David's soul and David is scared that he's going to get it. Ed's tone sharpen as he asks, is it here with us in the room? David's eyes shift, looking not at Ed, but past him into the living room beyond. Silently, he nods his head. Ed doesn't follow David's gaze. Instead he addresses the spirit. If you're here, he challenges, give us proof. Knock three times. For a moment nothing happens. No sound beyond the quiet whir of the tape recorder. And then bang.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Bang.

[Corinne Vien]

Bang.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Bang.

[Corinne Vien]

The knocks echo through the room like gunfire, rattling the table beneath their hands. Then the lights start to flicker. The glasses in the cabinet start to clink against each other. The floor seems to shudder. And soon it's as if the entire kitchen is shaking, as though the walls are grinding up against some unseen force. The Glatzel family looks around in growing terror. Whoever, whatever this spirit is, it's here and it's angry.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Oh, I just get chills thinking about that moment of everyone sitting in silence, waiting for the bangs. And they come like so violently, right?

[Corinne Vien]

The whole house becomes alive. It really is as if the house is going to swallow them whole.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Well then after this again chaotic moment, the whole house falls silent again, motionless. Just like a few nights earlier. So the family's there, sitting, trying to catch their breath, and Lorraine Warren stands up. She walks around the room. She looks at David and then she whispers to Mrs. And Mr. Gladsell. She told them that she could see a black cloud surrounding David's body. But then she goes on to say, this is not a ghost. It's a demon. And after everything they had seen, the Warrens warned the Glatzels that this was a very, very serious case. And the Warrens had an ideology about how possessions occurred. They believe that there were five steps. So the invitation is number one, Number two, infestation. Number three, oppression, number four, possession. And then the final phase is death.

[Corinne Vien]

So basically they go into possession cases with the presumption that all of them.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Will end in death if not intervened.

[Corinne Vien]

Yes, yes.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So Ed could tell that the demon had already been invited in and it was now infesting the Glatzel's house, which is phase two. And the entity had its eyes set on David, which was the beginning of the third stage, oppression. So it is isolating and attacking one specific person and in this case, David.

[Corinne Vien]

What's unique about this though, is normally it's done so privately and then it escalates to the point where there are other observers like the family and investigators. This was like public to all immediately.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But is this also because of how the family is like? David came out of that house not wanting to talk to anyone. And it wasn't until his brothers are like, dude, David, what the heck is wrong with you? That he finally says something. And there is this isolation of no one believes him at first, which is oppressing, isolating a victim.

[Corinne Vien]

Right, that's true.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But luckily his family was able to help and step in. This basically meant the entity was starting to threaten David's free will and was starting to encourage him to act differently than he normally would. Which meant in Ed and Lorraine's eyes that this was starting the process and heading towards full on possession. So in order to avoid that, they needed to get the local Catholic church involved. But there's so many roadblocks in terms of getting a church to approve an.

[Corinne Vien]

Exorcism, it feels near impossible.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right.

[Corinne Vien]

And in honestly, a lot of the really scary cases that we have previously researched, I feel like a lot of the priests don't want to, like, they find excuses to not be involved.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Exactly. And in order to get the church to approve an exorcism, they needed evidence. So Ed and Lorraine instruct the Glatzel family to record everything that they could.

[Corinne Vien]

Hearing all of this, Debbie Glatzel's boyfriend, Arne Cheyenne Johnson, was still in disbelief about the whole thing. To him, demons, possessions, like that was something you see in the movies, right? Like this wasn't a real thing that his girlfriend's brother was experiencing. So this was weird that this was happening in real life, in his life, but they just couldn't deny it. Right. Like there was so much happening around them, you can't deny it. There was shaking, pictures falling off of walls, banging. They had all witnessed it.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

And so they got to work. The family bought a tape recorder and a Polaroid camera ready to document whatever happened to David.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And here's one place in this case that people start to question the validity of it. And they say, like, oh, Ed and Lorraine Warren, like the power of suggestion. Did they tell the Gladstone family what to expect of this possession? So that these thoughts were now in David's mind and he starts acting in the way that they said the progression of a possession happens, baby.

[Corinne Vien]

But I'd argue the Warrens were brought in after some of the stuff was already presenting in David.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I do agree with that, but I think it's important to address why people question this case.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So for a while, nothing out of the ordinary occurs. But then one night, David changed. He starts convulsing, screaming and spitting. And this 12 year old boy starts to snarl and growl and speak in a voice that sounds completely different than his. His mom, Judy, like, bravely stands there and demands that whatever demon is tormenting her child must leave immediately. And in response, this is horrifying. Little David begins to laugh. Not his cute 12 year old laugh that Judy knows. No, no, no. This is a sick, hoarse, mocking, demonic laugh.

[Corinne Vien]

I just had a flashback to when my child, Noah, when he was like, baby, baby. When he was an infant, he was having a lot of issues and my mom brought holy water and put it on his head like this. And the second she touched him with the holy water, out of character for him, we were both like, he's been possessed.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

He is not.

[Corinne Vien]

Fortunately, he's not. That was, I don't know, maybe it was a silly little shock of water. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, this David was not so lucky. These things were truly happening to him. And he had countless nights like this through July and August of 1980. And then the Glatzels and Ernie, Cheyenne Johnson actually recorded most of these instances on tape. Yeah, Every single experience was terrifying. And sometimes David was the aggressor. He would threaten his family. He would say that they're all gonna die and he would make these really eerie, ominous predictions. He would growl, he would hiss. And also this part, like really freaked me out. He quoted Bible verses and Paradise Lost. Despite never Reading them.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Oh, and I'm also imagining it's in these voices that are so foreign to him.

[Corinne Vien]

That's another thing with demonic possessions where there is a lot of mockery of religion and usually, like the Christian religions.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah, yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

Other nights it was like he was fighting this invisible attacker. He was clawing at unseen hands as if they were grasping at his throat.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Poor kid.

[Corinne Vien]

Arne would pray for David alongside the rest of the family. The boy was like family to him.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

And it had gotten so bad that Arnie and the others would have to sleep in shifts so that there was always someone up at night waiting for David's episodes to start so that they could document it and try to help David.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right.

[Corinne Vien]

So things were getting worse by the minute. And what had started as small incidents, I don't know if you can call.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Them small, but smaller in comparison to what they are now.

[Corinne Vien]

Right, sure. These are becoming increasingly more violent. And it was clear that David specifically was the target and that something or many somethings were trying to hurt him. So the family then contacts the Warrens again, telling David, the couple, that they need their help in getting a priest to perform an exorcism on David, like asap. Yes.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Now they can't wait.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. Because the stages are going to escalate and who's to say death is not near?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

On September 2, 1980, the Glatzels finally got their wish.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And I will say I was reading that David also would start in these attacks. He would start to speak about really, really violent things happening to his family and, like predicting their death, which a 12 year old child would not do this. And then when he would come out of these attacks, he would be so scared and he would beg his family to, like, help him and stop it.

[Corinne Vien]

Not the same at all because this one's so much more extreme. But just like the switch between him basically possessed and him just as like a scared boy being like, what's happening does remind me a little bit of.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

The Watuska wonder case and the movie the Exorcism.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So on September 2, 1980, Ed and Lorraine Warren meet the Glatzel family at a local Catholic church. And there is some debate here because I had read and learned a version of this where they never went to a church at all. And all of the exorcisms were performed at the Glatzel home. But according to the Warrens and the Glatzels themselves, there were a few small exorcisms that happened over the summer. And this one was at St. Joseph's Church in the town of Brookfield, Connecticut.

[Corinne Vien]

But also, this might have been, I feel like, especially the Warrens, with their connections, a lot of the stuff was kind of off the record.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Well, exactly, because even the local diocese has denied that any formal exorcism ever took place and that it was never at a church. But at the same time, they also declined to have any priests involved with the case speak to the press. So they basically were, like, trying to silence anyone involved. So there are a lot of questions. But like I said, the Glatzels say they were at the church this day on September 2nd, and this is the version of the events as they happened. As soon as they walked in, they immediately felt better, like something about being in the church was rejecting the negative, bad energy that they were carrying with them. So they really felt that if David could be freed from the demon that was terrorizing him, this was the place to do it. So here they are. Four priests stand at the front of the room. There is a priest who's going to lead the ceremony. And he explains that exorcisms can be profoundly unsettling. And he even warned them that in some cases, people die during these exorcism ceremonies, which is a terrifying way to start this. But I understand needing to state that.

[Corinne Vien]

Up front, the warning, because what you're about to see is really traumatic, too, because you're going to witness your child or your loved one, your brother probably convulsing, fighting for his life. Oftentimes there's vomit. There's really violent contortions of bodies, which.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

At this point, haven't they already seen a lot of this anyway? But anyway, they all look around at each other and they share the same silent question. What other choice do they have? So the priest begins to pray. The family joined in. And David sits there quietly for a few minutes. And then out of nowhere, the entire room, the entire church, becomes freezing cold. And then it began.

[Corinne Vien]

At first, David screamed, he spat, he shouted obscenities at the priest. And gradually his behavior became more and more extreme than it already was. That was extreme. His motions more erratic. And then all of a sudden, he was convulsing on the floor. His body was contorting in ways that they didn't ever feel like was possible for his body to right. Arnie actually had to restrain David, practically wrestling him to the ground as this boy lurched back and forth. And at some point in the struggle, Arnie got hold of a small crucifix. And in a swift motion, he pressed the metal against David's forehead. And David shrieked and cried and one of the brothers swore that he saw the crucifix on David's head sizzle like it was burning against David's skin. Nothing seemed to be working. This exorcism was supposed to save David, but it looked like it was killing him. And the family does not know what to do.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I mean, they were desperate. And so too was Arnie. And in a split second he made a choice that would have far reaching consequences for David, for Arnie, and for an innocent man named alan Bono.

[Corinne Vien]

It's September 2, 1980 in St. Joseph's Church in Brookfield, Connecticut. David Glatzel's exorcism has gone completely off the rails. As the priest continues to pray and demand that the demon leave David's body. The demon inside this 12 year old boy fights back. He shouts and snarls, lurching back and forth as Arne Cheyenne Johnson keeps him pinned to the ground with his free hand. Suddenly, David starts choking and wheezing. Arnie can see that his tongue is swollen. It's blocking his airflow. As Arnie stares down at David, he tries to find a trace of the little boy that he'd known before all of this. But he doesn't recognize the child convulsing on the floor. The demon who has been tormenting David for the last few months has taken over his entire being. David is possessed. Arnie can't take it anymore. So with the crucifix still pressed against David's forehead, Arnie cries out, leave this little kid alone. I'm here. Take me on. Suddenly, Arnie feels his body go ice cold. The room starts to spin. He slowly loses his grip on David and he collapses onto the floor. The last thing Arnie hears is people shouting, and through the fog of his mind he can tell that the voices belong to Ed and Lorraine Warren. They're shouting at him and he can only catch snippets of what they're saying. But one thing stands out loud and clear. Do you realize what you've done?

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[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And during this exorcism is when Ed and Lorraine claimed that there were somewhere between 42 and 43 demons possessing or trying to possess David, which I don't know how they calculate that number. I don't know necessari, but that is a stat that has stuck with me during this case. And now Arnie has basically invited the entities into his own body to sacrifice himself. And this is where things take a really major turn.

[Corinne Vien]

I volunteer as tribute.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And I don't even think Arnie knew what he was doing. I think he just like in the heat of the moment, yeah, desperate, wanting to protect this young boy, sacrifice himself. And it reminds me, cause I recently watched this movie, the Exorcist. I rewatched it and the priest in that movie does that. He realizes that the demon's not gonna leave little Regan alone. So he volunteers as tribute and sacrifices himself.

[Corinne Vien]

I mean, to me it makes sense because you're like, okay, well the demon already has such claws in David, right? That if it is tempted by its own ego to take on someone bigger and stronger, wouldn't it pivot? Then it kind of almost has to start again. You would think, like from the beginning to try to take you on. I would do it too. If you were possessed, I'd be like.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Oh no, you would take me out yourself for me.

[Corinne Vien]

100 and I would win. I don't.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I love you. I don't know that I would because I don't think I could win. Oh, well, like I think I would be gone.

[Corinne Vien]

Well, you wouldn't have to sacrifice yourself because I'd already be. Who has a bigger ego?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Beam to me. This is not an invitation. Let's be very clear. We're all about setting boundaries and intention. Stop.

[Corinne Vien]

Don't touch me there.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Demons are not welcome into our lives, but we do enjoy the stories. Okay, so in this moment, no one's really sure of what happened. Exactly. Yes, Arnie out loud, sacrificed himself. But then after he does that, things go really, really quiet. David seems to settle and he slowly starts to return to that happy 12 year old child that he knew him to be. And that's another point of this that does make me think it is a real possession, is because if it were a mental illness or something mentally, psychologically wrong with David, it wouldn't just like all of a sudden end and he's fine, nothing ever happens to him again. Mental illness is a reoccurring thing like that, you know. But despite this strange experience in the church, Arnie himself feels fine and he's like, oh, maybe the risk that I took actually paid off and the demon hadn't been strong enough to take him on. Sounds like you, Corinne. Similar mentality.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, but Ed. And although maybe this is a cautionary tale for me to deliver you to the priest instead, I was shocked you.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Were willing to sacrifice yourself for me. So I'm not offended by you taking it back. Okay, so Ed and Lorraine Warren, having spent years and years and basically their whole lives doing this work, they're not as convinced. They have seen plenty of dark demonic entities and they don't trust this silence. It's kind of like a eye of the storm where you know it's coming.

[Corinne Vien]

Again, the false sense of safety.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So in their perspective was like this is actually the beginning of a whole new problem. And they claimed that this evil now resided in Arnie. They even supposedly went to the Brookfield police to caution them. And I can't even imagine this interaction. But Lorraine spoke to police and said that her powers had shown her an image of someone being killed with a knife.

[Corinne Vien]

Although I would argue I feel like the local police in the whole Connecticut, Rhode island region might be very aware of Ed and Lorraine already.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

That's true, but that doesn't mean they believe in them.

[Corinne Vien]

True, true.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So psychic visions are not normally the kinds of tips that cops take seriously. So they listen to Lori and they're like, thank you and they sent her on her way. But she pleads with him one last time and she's very specific. She's like, please keep an eye on Arne Cheyenne Johnson.

[Corinne Vien]

Okay, so they were. She was connecting.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yes, she was connecting knife and dying.

[Corinne Vien]

To Arne Cheyenne Johnson.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yes. So I don't know that anything necessarily would have changed had they taken it more seriously because no one could have guessed how right her prediction would be.

[Corinne Vien]

For the next few months, Arne Cheyenne Johnson's life went back to normal. For the most part. He and Debbie decided to rent an apartment in Brookfield in the same town as her family. It was owned by 40 year old Alan Bono. Alan was funny, he was friendly, he was larger than life. And he, Debbie and Arnie became really fast friends. He even got Debbie a job working as a dog groomer at the kennel that he owned. All was grand, except Arnie was experiencing some unusual things. Things on their own seemed a bit minor. There were weird lapses, moments where he would just stare off blankly, start to dissociate and he started getting really irritable. And even Debbie noticed some odd things like Arnie growling and muttering under his breath.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Little strange, weird things, small, little changes.

[Corinne Vien]

So on their own, in small doses, these things I guess to them don't seem overly concerning until February 16, 1981.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

That day, Arnie had woken up feeling off and he figured he was just coming down with a cold and didn't think much of it. That day he and Debbie had plans. They were going to spend the day with Arnie's 15 year old sister Wanda, Debbie's 9 year old niece named Mary, and their landlord, Alan Bono. But at lunch, Arnie and Debbie noticed that Alan Bono was drinking maybe one too many glasses of wine and he was getting a bit too boisterous with the girls. So after lunch they all head back to the dog kennel where Debbie and Alan worked. And as far as they claim, the afternoon was pretty unremarkable. But there was a tension that simmered in the air. So Debbie decides to take the girls out for pizza while Arnie and Alan hung out at the kennel a little longer. But Debbie couldn't shake this feeling that something wasn't right.

[Corinne Vien]

After their dinner, she brought the girls back to the kennel where Alan had an apartment upstairs and he invited them up and he wouldn't take no for an Answer. Allen was acting really strange. He started playing the TV way too loud and repeatedly punching his fist into his hand, which is really scary.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Very.

[Corinne Vien]

So Debbie knew. We gotta get out of here. But as soon as they turned to leave, Alan grabbed nine year old Mary and would not let go until Debbie literally pried his hands off of this. This little girl. Awful. Arnie had already headed back down to the car, so he wasn't there for it. But he heard the commotion and so then he goes back upstairs. He told Alan, let go. And that is when Arnie's sister Wanda said everything went haywire.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Arnie stood in front of Alan stiff as a board, his face completely expressionless. It was like something was gluing him to the spot. Even when Wanda tried to pull him off to leave, Arnie wouldn't budge. Debbie tried pushing her way between the two men to diffuse the tension, but there was no stopping it. And all of a sudden, Arnie let out a deep guttural growl and lunged forward, holding something shiny in his hand.

[Corinne Vien]

An instant later, it was over. Arnie simply turned around and walked out of the room covered in blood. Debbie shouted after him, but it was like Arnie was in a trance. He kept walking, he never turned around. And that is when she realized Alan Bono had been stabbed multiple times.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Which is so traumatic for Debbie, Wanda and Mary to have like witnessed this all in front of their own eyes, Right?

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah. And some of them are so young.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So young.

[Corinne Vien]

Then Allan fell onto his face, bleeding profusely from the handful of stab wounds Arnie had left. The shining object was a five inch knife Arnie always kept on him. And now it was lying on the ground next to Alan, covered in his blood.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And remember, Arnie had just like in a trance, like walked off, staring into nothingness, blood soaked. So Debbie's too afraid to go after Arnie and instead she runs downstairs to the kennel and calls an ambulance for Allen. Unfortunately, they were too late to save him. And Alan Bono died in the hospital a short while later. As soon as the emergency call went out, the police put out an all points bulletin for Arnie. And he hadn't gone far because after the ambulance driver dropped Allen at the hospital, he spotted Arnie walking down a road not far from McGlot family home. It didn't take long for the cops to find him and then take him into custody. And when the cops explained to Arnie why he was being arrested, he refused to believe it. He was like, I could never kill anyone, let alone his own friend.

[Corinne Vien]

Right?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But the evidence was undeniable. And Arnie had to face a truth that he really didn't understand. He had killed Alan Bono, or at least his body had.

[Corinne Vien]

And Arnie hadn't forgotten about the harrowing last few months with David Glatzel, and he certainly hadn't forgotten about what he had said during that exorcism. Arne was convinced that something else was controlling him. When his body killed Alan Bono, the demon, the demon specifically that was possessing David, had taken him up on his offer and taken Arnie's body, used it to kill Allen.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

At first, Arnie's defense lawyer, Martin Minella, is like, I don't think so, buddy. And also as a lawyer, it's a strange defense. It's a very strange defense. And this is the first time this defense is ever brought up in the US Court. So as a lawyer, he's like, I've never heard of this before and I don't really believe it or buy it.

[Corinne Vien]

It's not like, how do you prove the paranormal? We've been chasing that for years. Right.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

We've been trying. But still, as his lawyer, Manella wants to investigate these claims. And so he goes to Ed and Lorraine Warren to see if they have any real proof that David Glatzel was possessed. And the Warrens play him a bunch of tapes like they have so much evidence from that case.

[Corinne Vien]

Right.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Each new clip is more chilling than the last. And all of a sudden now Manella is like, okay, Arnie's claims don't sound so far fetched anymore.

[Corinne Vien]

And then Manella learned about the wounds that Alan Bono had suffered. And this is what made him really start to believe. So according to Manella, no human could have driven a knife that deep into a body. So this could only be the work.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Of a devil, which I have not seen. Or do I care to see any of this forensic evidence? But I feel like there, just from what I know about true crime and the violence behind any violence necessary to kill someone, I imagine that force could come from a human.

[Corinne Vien]

Okay, yes. But let's think of the detail about how Arnie was standing there. It's not like he lunged forward and had the force and momentum of himself. It seemed like he was a senior still as a statue standing there, confronting Alan, the two of them just completely still. And then suddenly it's like. And it goes that deep again.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Also, all the story is being told by the surviving, not the victim.

[Corinne Vien]

True.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Anyway.

[Corinne Vien]

And by people related to him or. Yeah.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And we'll discuss more of these theories because I have thoughts and we'll get to them.

[Corinne Vien]

Yes. So Minella agreed to help Arnie argue that he had been possessed when he killed Allen. A plea of not guilty by demonic possession, which had never been made in the US Courts really, anywhere.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I think there was only one other case in the whole world, and it was somewhere in the UK that had used a similar defense.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah. So it does seem outlandish and outrageous. And soon the outrageous nature of this claim turned Arnie Cheyenne Johnson into an international figure. But that's not because everybody believed Arnie. A lot of people found it absolutely absurd and unbelievable that a murderer could claim, quote, the devil made me do it.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So the question of whether or not Arnie or anyone could be possessed by a demon really does come down to a matter of faith. And so for believers, and during this time for believers, there was no question. Plus, there were the recordings of David Glatzel. They were more than enough to show that a demon was present in the Glatzel family in Arnie's life that could have taken over Arnie. First it came for David, and then it came for Arnie. But then the skeptical side, including the prosecution, it was a lot less dramatic than that. To them, it was nothing more than a standard homicide where a man killed another man without any interference of the supernatural. And I do think it's important that, because this is something that really came up in the case here is this matter of mental illness. A lot of young men who are diagnosed with schizophrenia do manifest symptoms sometime around their early 20s, and Arnie was 19, so he's right around that age. But we'll get into why that's not true.

[Corinne Vien]

Wipe your tongue now.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But I'm just saying, like, that's something that they consider.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you guys can consider for a few more moments before we get into.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

It, and then more. Corinne will tell you not to consider it anymore. This episode is brought to you by Rakuten. The holidays are here, and that means it's the most wonderful time of the year. To save with Rakuten, use Rakuten to stack cash back at your favorite stores on top of holiday sales.

[Corinne Vien]

That's savings on savings.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

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[Corinne Vien]

So good, so good, so good.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

New markdowns are on at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save even more. Up to 70% on dresses, tops, boots and handbags to give and get. Cause I always find something amazing. Just so many good brands. I get an extra 5% off with my Nordstrom credit card. Total queen treatment. Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack. When Arnie Cheyenne Johnson's trial began a few days before Halloween on October 28, 1981, his defense was prepared to show everything. They had the tapes, the firsthand accounts, they even had a priest ready to speak to the jury. But they never got the chance.

[Corinne Vien]

Dang it. That means we don't get a chance of seeing it. That same day, the judge declared that demonic possession was not a viable defense and that they could not argue it. So Arnie's lawyers pivoted to a plea of self defense in hopes that that might get him convicted basically of just manslaughter instead of first degree murder. Yeah, and there wasn't really any arguing that Arnie hadn't killed Allen. We knew that that was the case. That was the truth. The question was, what was his motivation? Was it a cold blooded attack? Was it him protecting his loved ones? And after a 27 day trial, the jury delivered its verdict on November 24, 1981, guilty of manslaughter.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So the defense was able to convince the jury that Arnie killed Allan to protect Debbie and the girls.

[Corinne Vien]

Which is really interesting given that they couldn't use any of the evidence of like David in that possession.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right, I know, but so it still.

[Corinne Vien]

Was during the trial. It was still convincing enough.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah, it was still a crime, but it wasn't murder. And this is interesting too because when we previously researched this topic for Two Girls and Ghosts, I actually didn't know anything about the self defense approach. I didn't know Allan was being like weird and handsy and I'm almost like, why wouldn't that be? Like that is self defense. If Alan was being that creepy, grabbing onto children, not letting them go.

[Corinne Vien]

It's children too. Yeah, like a 9 year old.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But Arnie was given the maximum of 10 to 20 years in prison, though he only ended up serving 5 years in total and was released in 1986 on good behavior. And after that. And this is why I. And we don't believe mental illness is a real thing here. In this case, mental illness is very real. I have it. But in this case, it doesn't apply because after he's released from prison, he really moved on with his life. While he was in prison, Arnie and Debbie actually got married. And then when he was released, they moved in together. They had a whole life together. They had two kids together, and they had a really quiet life until Debbie passed away in 2021. But going back to the mental illness thing, like, if it was schizophrenia, you don't just go to jail for five years, come out, and all of a sudden your schizophrenia is gone. Yeah. So that's why we don't think it's a momentary lapse of.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. It's not like we are owed access to people's medication either. But I feel like that would have made its way into the public.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yes, I agree. But truly, this is a story the world would never forget, and it's still one that people really do debate, like, was it paranormal or was it just an act of violence?

[Corinne Vien]

Well, Debbie and Arnie never stopped believing that his crime was the work of demonic possession. The likelihood of this being due to a case of mental illness like schizophrenia, it just was very unlikely since Arnie hadn't shown any signs of that prior or after killing Alan Bono. But for the Glatzel family, it was a lot more complicated. David still believes that he himself, when he was 12 years old, was possessed by a demon. His mother and his brother Allen also thought so. But David's older brother Carl, and their father, Carl Sr.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

The Carls.

[Corinne Vien]

The Carls. What's wrong with you, Carl? They refused to buy any of it. So they were witness to all of this, all the tapes, the evidence, people coming into their home, various exorcisms in many different places, and yet they say no. To them, the quote, unquote demon was nothing more than a hoax, that David was just acting up for attention.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Well, and in the Devil on Trial documentary, Carl, the brother, does say he very much believes. And granted, like, he was young, too, but he probably influenced by his father, very much believes that Ed and Lorraine Warren came in, basically described everything that will happen during a possession case, and then, like clockwork, all of those things started happening and were being exhibited by David.

[Corinne Vien]

It's like the power of suggestion. Whether David knew he was doing it purposefully or not. Yes. I don't know, like, if he really was acting up and all this stuff. I find it hard to Believe that suddenly, with just the offer from Arnie to say, I will take the demon.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

That it's just like, oh, I'm good now.

[Corinne Vien]

I'm good.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, we're back to being normal here.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

I agree.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah. So even after everything that happened, it seems like not everyone who was involved in the case believed.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Sorry, one more thing. Also, like, pro demonic possession, especially where it comes to David. Like, this child is being what seems like physically choked by unseen hands in front of family members. So it's like, I don't know about you, but, like, I can't lay here and, like, convince you that someone's choking me and start convulsing and being lifted off the floor by myself. I'm not that talented. No, I don't think anyone is. Except for demons.

[Corinne Vien]

Right. Like, if you can actively make yourself float, I'm jealous. There's still something paranormal going on. Right?

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Exactly.

[Corinne Vien]

But for Carl and Carl Sr. Obviously, they didn't fully believe. And actually they had a pretty negative view of the Warrens. Like you suggested that they were coming in and suggesting things. But more than that, they thought that they were just grifters who took advantage of these troubling situations and basically enabled increasingly alarming and dangerous behavior.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

There's also another theory, I think, again proposed by Carl, the brother, that he had, like, read his mom's journal, and this is where it comes back to the Flintstones, but not the Flintstones vitamins. And in her journal, she had written, like, everyone in the family took their medication. And then it spiraled this whole thing of, like, was the mom giving the family Benadryl? I don't know why that became a thing. But then in researching about the side effects of Benadryl, there's a theory it's connected to overuse. And overtaking of Benadryl could be tied to later on dementia.

[Corinne Vien]

Oh, interesting. But we're gonna say, like, hallucinations, because a lot of people who experience sleep paralysis talk about taking Benadryl or something.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Like that before you go to bed. But there's literally no connection to hallucinations with taking Benadryl. And also if that were true, if everyone is being drugged with Benadryl, which. Why is that happening, wouldn't multiple people have these side effects, not just David?

[Corinne Vien]

Right. And if David has early onset Alzheimer's at age of 12, that would continue after.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

It doesn't just disappear. Yeah, agreed. It also doesn't help with the fact that the Warrens, after this trial, signed a major book deal about David's story, and they did promise the Glatzels some profit on it, but the Warrens got over $80,000 for the book, which is worth over more than $250,000 in today's money. And the Glatzels only got around $4,500. So I think similar to what you were saying, like Carl and Carl Sr. Felt like the Warrens were just like.

[Corinne Vien]

Taking advantage of them.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Taking advantage of them.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, right. Because it's not like the Glatzels came and were like, we want you to help us get this story out.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

It was help get this demon out.

[Corinne Vien]

It was help get this demon out. And then now suddenly their lives and the most horrific thing to happen to their family is public and for other people's enjoyment and monetary gain.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

So this is where my questioning the demonic possession of Arne comes in. I absolutely believe that David Glatzel was possessed. He was battling demons that were thankfully rid from his body. I do question whether or not Arnie was possessed, because given the fact that he is willing to sacrifice himself for young David, who's being possessed, I imagine in the moment of seeing this man, Alan Bono, who's drunk and being handsy with his loved ones, not letting go of a nine year old girl, like, I can see how, wanting to protect his loved ones, he once again steps in and does act violently. And then it's after the fact, when he comes to, remembers all of the violence that he did commit at his own hands, he starts to, like, want to believe that it was something else, it was a demon. And he has this whole background of a demon possessing someone else in his life.

[Corinne Vien]

Self defense is also such a hard thing to argue for too. There's a lot of cases where it doesn't hold up, even though it feels so clearly like self defense. Like, I immediately think of like the Menendez brothers case too. But it's also like, you know, when we're watching horror movies and stuff and someone doesn't pull the trigger, doesn't run out the door, and you're like, why did you hesitate? And it's like, well, maybe that was something that Arnie was going through in that moment too. Because, like, if he does hesitate, perhaps someone does get hurt and killed. We don't know what happened in the split second before he decided or something within him decided to attack Allen. Attack Allen.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And also if it was a demonic possession, if we look at how many times they had to perform these rituals or like blessings or exorcisms on David to finally rid him of the entity, none of that was performed on Arnie. And I think his belief was that the demon just wanted to take a life. And when he killed Allen, the demon got what he wanted and left his body.

[Corinne Vien]

Well, and I will like to argue the demon made me do it. Side of this case. We saw with David how quickly things escalated. It did go from 0 to 100 within, like, 24 hours, if that. It was very abnormal. I think, from my perspective, when it comes to how demonic attachments and possessions ordinarily happen. So it's not unbelievable to me that something could be, like, laying dormant, festering, just, like, making little moments of coming out here and there and then just coming full force out at once.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Right. We don't know. And I think that's the hardest part about the paranormal. Also. Some of the most exciting parts of the paranormal is that we don't know. Like, even going back to the very beginning of this case, David is sweeping the bedroom.

[Corinne Vien]

Mm.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

What was happening in this house? What, like, did the previous tenants of this place experience?

[Corinne Vien]

It was probably peaceful and quiet like most demonic possession cases are. But also, I will. Okay. Going to the side of Carl and Carl Sr. And the suggestibility that the Warrens came in to bring. There's a lot of parallels with the Amityville horror case, which they had just come off of.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Yes. And I know, actually that's a great tie because. Well, kind of. But there's a movie about the Amityville. Well, there's a movie about Amityville horror, and I wanted to talk about the movie based on this case too. Okay.

[Corinne Vien]

Okay.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Which I know that we are no longer in season one, which is Crimes of Infamy, but we do love movies. And there's also a horror movie based on this case, the the Devil Made Me do it, which is the seventh installment in the Conjuring universe, and it has a lot of the elements of the story we just shared with you, but it also adds its own, you know, embellishments, like a witch's totem that was left in the Glatzel's home and passed a curse onto David. But it's also my least favorite of the Conjuring series.

[Corinne Vien]

Yeah, we're definitely fans of the Conjuring and that franchise, but it is interesting because they do take the side of Ed and Lorraine Warren when telling it, and I do feel like so many of the interesting details of the actual haunting and cases that they cover are lost.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

It's also Hollywood. So they dramatize, like, dramatize, dramatize.

[Corinne Vien]

Dramamine and Ventril and all those things.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But the Conjuring movies are great. I highly recommend. Please watch, please. As if we get anything from it.

[Corinne Vien]

We need a kickback, but we're curious.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

To hear what you think about this case, too. Like, was it paranormal?

[Corinne Vien]

Even now, it's hard to know for sure what happened on that February day in 1981. Was Arne just a killer? Or was he the victim of a vengeful demon? And the answer to that question depends on who you ask. And regardless, the truth is that a man was brutally murdered in cold blood. Demon or not, the cost of all of this was one man's life cut short.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

But for Arnie and David, the demon was very, very real. And now, fortunately, they're both free. Neither of them are possessed anymore. The demon is finally gone, at least.

[Corinne Vien]

As far as we know.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

And we know very little. But we do believe in ghosts. And that's why we are so excited for this season of Crimes of. And we cannot wait to bring you another mystifying case next week.

[Corinne Vien]

Thanks so much for listening. We are your hosts, Sabrina d' Anarroga and Corinne Vien. Join us next Tuesday for another peek inside another Crimes of the Paranormal. And if there are any cases that you would like us to cover, let us know in the comments. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media rimehouse. Don't forget to rate, review and follow Crimes of wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

[Sabrina Deanna Roga]

Okay, today we're going to do the same sign off that we've been doing. Let's give it our best demon voices, okay? Okay, back mommies. That was good. See you next week.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Follow Crimes of a Crime House original Now new episodes release every Tuesday. Again, that's Crimes of. Follow now wherever you get your podcasts. There's also a link to the show in this episode description that'll take you there. Looking for your next Crime House listen? Don't miss Crimes of with Sabrina Deanna Roga and Corinne Vien. Crimes of is a weekly series that explores a new theme each season from Crimes of the Paranormal, unsolved murders, mysterious disappearances, and more. Their first season is Crimes of the True stories behind Hollywood's most iconic horror villains. And coming up next is Crimes of Paranormal real life cases where the line between the living and dead gets seriously blurry. Listen to Crimes of every Tuesday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.