HOLIDAY SPECIAL: The New Year's Murders 2 with Carter Roy

Summary

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Conspiracy Theories, Cults, & Crimes

HOLIDAY SPECIAL: The New Year's Murders 2 with Carter Roy

Release Date: January 1, 2026
Hosts: Carter Roy & Vanessa Richardson

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Overview

This special New Year's episode revisits the high-profile New Zealand case of Ben Smart and Olivia Hope, a pair of young adults who vanished after a 1998 New Year’s Eve party. The episode, featuring Carter Roy and Vanessa Richardson, explores the evidence, the police investigation, and the controversial trial and conviction of Scott Watson. It digs into the unresolved grief of the victims’ families and the persistent doubts about justice being served.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Complex Search for Closure in Tragedy

• Stages of Grief & Missing Closure:
  The show opens by discussing grief, emphasizing that closure is often missing for families of the missing or murdered.
  • Quote: “Grief is a process and it's different for everyone. And for those people who have lost a loved one, that list ... misses a crucial step. Closure.” — Vanessa Richardson [01:04]
• The Hope and Smart families exemplify this prolonged grief, with the lack of bodies or clear answers exacerbating their pain.

2. The Night Ben and Olivia Disappeared

• Party at Furneaux Lodge:
  On January 1, 1998, Ben Smart (21) and Olivia Hope (17) vanished after a crowded New Year’s Eve party in Marlborough Sounds, New Zealand.
• Last Seen Boarding a Stranger’s Boat:
  • Witness, water taxi driver Guy Wallace, reported dropping them (with another male) onto a two-masted, blue-and-white boat — which did not resemble suspect Scott Watson’s actual vessel.
  • Quote: “Guy dropped the three of them off at the Stranger ship, a 40 foot sailboat with two masts painted white with a broad blue stripe along the side. That was the last time anyone saw Ben or Olivia.” — Carter Roy [04:08]

3. The Police Investigation and Focus on Scott Watson

• Suspect Discrepancies:
  • Scott Watson, 26, had a criminal record and abrasive behavior at the party, but:
    • His boat (the Blade) was a smaller, single-mast, red-painted vessel (later repainted blue), not matching Guy’s description.
    • His clean-shaven, short-haired look didn’t fit witnesses’ recollections (“scruffy, long-haired, bearded”).
• Circumstantial Case:
  Despite these inconsistencies, Scott became the sole suspect due to his personality, location, and social reputation.
  • Quote: “Even though his boat and appearance didn't match, police thought his personality did.” — Vanessa Richardson [05:28]

4. Forensic Evidence and Its Limitations

• Physical Evidence Falls Short:

  • Initial forensic searches on the Blade yielded no blood, fingerprints, or trace evidence.
  • A tiger blanket collected from the boat contained over 400 hairs; only two long blond hairs could potentially implicate Olivia, but tests were either inconclusive (sample 13) or suggested only a 28,000 times match to her maternal line (sample 12 — could be Olivia or her sister).
  • Key Moment: “Most of the hairs were brown... But there were also some blonde strands, and Olivia was blonde... None of the hairs were a match for Olivia's.” — Carter Roy [06:44–08:17]

• Scratch Marks and “Clean” Hull:

  • Investigators found scratch marks inside the hatch—interpreted by police as signs of Olivia trapped and clawing to escape, but Scott and his family claimed they were left by his young nieces before the incident.
  • Bare spots on the hull were theorized to have been made by bodies being dumped overboard, although they could have been from pre-party boat cleaning.

• Secondary Transfer Theory:
  The defense explained the possibility of Olivia’s hair reaching the Blade by indirect contact during the party.

  • Quote: “People naturally shed up to 100 hairs every day... It could have gotten onto his boat accidentally.” — Vanessa Richardson [14:30]

5. Police Tactics and Witness Influencing

• Surveillance and Pressure:

  • Police bugged Watson’s home, the neighbors, and a local payphone, overhearing the family joke about harming Detective Rob Pope; the jokes intensified police suspicion.
  • Police also faced criticism for leaking damaging rumors to the press.

• Eyewitness Lineup Concerns:

  • Key witnesses (Guy Wallace and bartender Roz McNeely) repeatedly failed to identify Watson in photo lineups.
  • Police presented a new lineup with a photo of Scott mid-blink, making his eyes appear “narrow”—the standout trait cited by witness Roz. Both picked out Scott, but tentatively and with reservations.
  • Roz was never shown the party-night photo; police declined her request.
  • Memorable Quote: “Roz went home that night feeling a vague sense of doubt that would haunt her for years.” — Carter Roy [18:41]

6. The Trial: Circumstance and Controversy

• Arrest and High-Profile Trial:

  • Scott arrested June 15, 1998, and charged with double homicide.
  • The trial was one of New Zealand’s most publicized; defense focused on timeline and alibi evidence.
  • The prosecution introduced a last-minute “two trip theory” — positing that Scott could have left and returned to shore after 2 a.m. without supporting witnesses.
    • Quote: “They had no witness testimony to corroborate the theory, so it was only speculation.” — Carter Roy [25:04]
  • Two jailhouse informants claimed Scott confessed; one later retracted, admitting fabrication to get a lighter sentence.

• Forensic and Eyewitness Evidence Challenged:

  • The hair evidence’s integrity was contested. Scientist Susan Vintner admitted lab cross-contamination was possible, but she defended her findings.
  • Despite the circumstantial case and retracted testimony, the jury convicted Scott of two counts of murder on September 11, 1999.

7. Post-Trial Doubts and the Erosion of Certainty

• Witnesses Recant:

  • After the verdict, both Roz and Guy Wallace publicly stated the man and the boat they encountered that night were not Scott or the Blade.
  • Jailhouse informant A admitted to lying; Witness B’s claims also lost credibility upon scrutiny.
  • Quote: “She was sure that the scruffy man she remembered was not Scott Watson.” — Vanessa Richardson [28:55]

• Family and Public Uncertainty:

  • Even Olivia’s father, Gerald Hope, began doubting the police’s case and Scott’s guilt, feeling the investigation was too narrowly focused and flawed.

8. Appeals and Enduring Mystery

• Legal Battles and Public Sentiment:
  • Scott’s legal team argued procedural unfairness (the late “two trip theory”), but appeals were denied.
  • Public attitudes shifted over time—from majority conviction of Scott’s guilt to increased doubt.
• Latest Review:
  • In 2025, a new review of evidence again found the original forensic case admissible, and Scott’s appeal was denied.
• The Truth Remains Lost:
  • Scott remains in prison—his behavior and refusal to admit guilt counting against parole.
  • Families are left without true closure, and public debate continues.
  • Quote: “We never got the truth. We haven't got the truth yet. Hopefully one day they will.” — Gerald Hope to Scott Watson [33:43]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Closure:
  “Anyone who's lost someone knows it's not that simple... that list... misses a crucial step. Closure.”
  — Vanessa Richardson [00:42–01:04]

• On Evidence Doubt:
  “All of the tests run on sample 13 were inconclusive... The lab determined it had been contaminated... The hair could have been Olivia's. But there was no way to tell.”
  — Carter Roy [10:38]

• On Identification Process:
  “Roz went home that night feeling a vague sense of doubt that would haunt her for years.”
  — Carter Roy [18:41]

• On the Trial’s Manipulation:
  “They claimed that Scott did indeed return to the blade around 2am. Then at some point after that... he came back to shore. They had no witness testimony to corroborate the theory.”
  — Carter Roy [25:04]

• On Changing Public Opinion:
  “In 2002, a survey found 59% of New Zealanders believe Scott was guilty of murder. By 2007, that number had dropped to 42%.”
  — Carter Roy [30:53]

• On Lasting Uncertainty:
  “We never got the truth. We haven't got the truth yet.”
  — Gerald Hope (Olivia’s father), recounted by Carter Roy [33:43]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Highlights | |-----------|----------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:42 | Grief and the Search for Closure | Grief's complexity, closure missing for families | | 04:08 | Overview of Disappearance | Last sighting, water taxi, and the misidentified boat | | 05:28 | Initial Focus on Scott Watson | Circumstantial nature of case, suspect discrepancies | | 06:44 | Forensic Searches and Hair Analysis | Tiger blanket hairs, forensic frustrations | | 08:17 | Crucial Evidence and Police Theories | Scratch marks, hull observations, secondary transfer | | 14:30 | Hair Evidence and Its Limitations | Secondary transfer, doubts on forensic certainty | | 15:33 | Police Tactics and Witness Intimidation | Surveillance, media pressure, witness handling | | 18:41 | Eyewitness Lineup Issues | Manipulative photo choices, witness uncertainty | | 21:13 | Arrest of Scott Watson | Prosecution’s mounting case, community anticipation | | 23:36 | The Trial: Evidence and Strategy | Key prosecution and defense arguments, introduction of “two trip theory” | | 25:04 | Controversial Prosecution Theories | Jailhouse informants, scratch marks, hair analysis challenges| | 28:15 | Verdict and Immediate Aftermath | Watson’s sentencing, instant public skepticism | | 28:55 | Witness Recantations and Doubts | Bartender and water taxi driver voice regret | | 32:25 | Post-conviction and Appeals | Unsuccessful appeals, fluctuating public belief | | 33:43 | Unresolved Ending | Gerald Hope’s search for truth, families’ lack of closure |

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Tone and Closing Reactions

The episode conveys the frustration, lingering pain, and moral ambiguity surrounding the case, blending empathy for the families with skepticism about police and prosecutorial conduct. The unresolved questions and shifting testimony create an uneasy, somber mood, laying bare the complexity of high-profile justice.

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In summary:
This episode dissects the problematic conviction of Scott Watson for the murders of Olivia Hope and Ben Smart, spotlighting enduring doubts, recanted evidence, and the profound ache for closure. For both the Hope and Smart families, and for all listeners, the case leaves a haunting lesson: sometimes the legal system’s ending is not the real ending — and the truth can remain agonizingly out of reach.

Transcript

[Vanessa Richardson]

Exciting news Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes is leveling up. Starting the week of January 12th, you'll be getting two episodes every week. Wednesdays we unravel the conspiracy or the cult, and on Fridays we look at a corresponding crime. Every week has a theme. Tech, bioterror, power, paranoia, you name it. Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes now on your podcast app because you're about to dive deeper, get weirder, and go darker than than ever before.

[Carter Roy]

This is crime house. We've all heard about the five stages of grief. Denial, Anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. A step by step guide like this sounds comforting, but anyone who's lost someone knows it's not that simple.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Grief is a process and it's different for everyone. And for those people who have lost a loved one, that list that Carter mentioned misses a crucial step. Closure.

[Carter Roy]

Unfortunately, that's not always so easy to find. In 1998, the families of 17 year old Olivia Hope and 21 year old Ben Smart learned that the hard way. Olivia and Ben had gone missing after a New Year's party and were presumed dead. The police had a suspect in mind, but one very important piece of the puzzle was missing their bodies. People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle and an end, but you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon and we don't always get to know the real ending. This is a special New Year's episode of True Crime. The Crime House Original. I'm Carter Roy and I am joined today by my friend and fellow member of the Crime House family, Vanessa Richardson, host of Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Hey Carter, I'm so excited to be back. Thanks for having me at Crime House. We want to express our gratitude to you, our community, for making this possible. Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes and Murder. True crime stories wherever you listen and subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts for ad free and early access to each two part series.

[Carter Roy]

This is the second of two episodes on the disappearances of 17 year old Olivia Hope and 21 year old Ben Smart on New Year's Day 1998. Last time we covered the final night of Ben and Olivia's lives. After a huge New Year's Eve party in the Marlborough Sounds in New Zealand, the young couple vanished without a trace and before long the case went from a missing persons investigation to a homicide. Today we'll continue the investigation and discuss the main suspect, 26 year old Scott Watson. In June of 1999 Scott went on trial for Ben and Olivia's murder. What came next was one of the most controversial verdicts in New Zealand's history. All that and more coming up. TikTok for Business is helping owners like you reach new customers every day.

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[Carter Roy]

Head over to get started.TikTok.com TikTokapps. By January 12, 1998, 17 year old Olivia Hope and 21 year old Ben Smart had been missing for almost two weeks. Since then, their case had been upgraded from a missing person's inquiry to a homicide investigation. Even so, the authorities still needed to find Ben and Olivia. They were last seen near the Freneau Lodge, a hotel and bar on the coast of New Zealand's South Island. Ben and Olivia had attended the lodge's annual New Year's Eve bash, ringing in the new year with 1,500 other attendees. By 4am on January 1, 1998, the couple was ready to call it a night, but they didn't have a place to sleep. They hitched a ride on a water taxi driven by 32 year old guy Wallace. Guy told police they accepted another passenger's offer to spend the night on his boat. Guy dropped the three of them off at the Stranger ship, a 40 foot sailboat with two masts painted white with a broad blue stripe along the side. That was the last time anyone saw Ben or Olivia.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Since then, police had been searching the more than 160 boats that had been moored at the lodge that night. None matched Guy's description, and lead detective Rob Pope had started to believe that Guy made a mistake. Especially since they'd found a suspect, 26 year old Scott Watson. Scott's boat, the Blade, was much smaller than the one Guy had seen. It had one mast, not two, and it was painted red the night of the party, though Scott later painted it blue. And Scott didn't quite match the mystery stranger Guy described. While the man Guy saw was scruffy with long hair and a beard, Scott was clean shaven with short hair. But even though his boat and appearance didn't match, police thought his personality did. Scott had an extensive juvenile criminal record Some of the other people at Furneaux Lodge distinctly remembered him being drunk and rude during the party. He was spotted aggressively hitting on women and picking fights. And last but not least, his boat was moored in the same area. Guy dropped Olivia and Ben off the night of the party. Given all of that, the police thought Scott was their man. But it was all circumstantial. They still needed to find hard proof.

[Carter Roy]

On January 12, 1998, detectives searched Scott's boat, the Blade. At first glance, there weren't any obvious blood stains or fingerprints. In fact, it looked a little too clean, like Scott had scrubbed it extensively after the party. Police hoped he hadn't destroyed all the evidence. They collected what samples they could, including a large blanket with a picture of a tiger on it that was covered in hairs. Then they sent it all off for analysis. At the Institute of environmental science and Research, a scientist named Susan Vintner found over 400 hairs on the blanket. Investigators hoped this would be a slam dunk, that the fibers belonged to Ben or Olivia. It wouldn't be that easy, though. Most of the hairs were brown. Since both Scott and Ben were brunettes, this didn't really narrow things down. It would take a while to determine whose hairs were whose. But there were also some blonde strands, and Olivia was blonde. So to save time, Susan focused on those. After days of analysis, on January 22, she found 11 strands that were similar shades as Olivia's. It looked promising, but genetic testing quickly dashed those hopes. None of the hairs were a match for Olivia's.

[Vanessa Richardson]

It was a crushing blow for police. So far, they hadn't found any physical evidence that Ben and Olivia were on board the Blade. No traces of blood or fingerprints. And now no hair, which was a problem. So far, the investigation had focused almost exclusively on Scott. If he wasn't the culprit, Detective Pope had no idea who was. So in early March, Pope ordered investigators to go through the blade a second time. That's when an officer noticed the hatch leading from the ship's deck to the bedroom below. The outside of it was steel, but the inside, which was only visible from below, was cushioned by a thin layer of insulation. It was made of a spongy material similar to a yoga mat. Up close, the officer could see dozens of tiny indentations in the material, like they'd been made by fingernails. The investigator's blood ran cold as he counted 176 marks. They looked to him like someone had been clawing at the insulation, trying desperately to get out, as if Ben or Olivia were trapped Inside the boat. That wasn't all the police found on their second sweep. Like most boats, the underside of the blade's hull was covered in algae. But toward the rear of the ship, police found a few spots that were completely, completely clear of growth. Experienced boaters often scrape their hulls to reduce drag, which helps the ship go faster. Maybe that's what Scott had done. But detectives thought there might be another explanation. If Scott dumped Ben and Olivia overboard, their bodies might have rubbed the algae away. Still, this was just a theory. Investigators needed forensic evidence to convince a jury. So they decided to take another look at the hair found on the tiger blanket. On March 7, three months after Ben and Olivia went missing, scientist Susan Vintner looked back through the 400 hairs taken from the tiger blanket. This time, she noticed two long blonde hairs she hadn't found back on January 22nd. She labeled these hairs samples 12 and 13 and sent them off for genetic testing.

[Carter Roy]

All of the tests run on sample 13 were inconclusive. The lab determined it had been contaminated at some point and contained the DNA of at least two people. This meant that the hair could have been Olivia's. But there was no way to tell. Number 12, on the other hand, was viable. And it still had the root attached, meaning it could be used to test for DNA. The lab found that sample 12 was 28,000 times more likely to belong to Olivia's maternal line compared to a random person. In other words, there was a high chance that the hair was Olivia's or her sister Amelia's. Susan Vitner had single handedly saved the police's case. Finally, they had some evidence placing Olivia Hope on the Blade before she disappeared. Detectives were more confident than ever that they'd found the killer. But it still wasn't a sure thing. And Scott Watson hadn't given up the fight. On March 7, 1998, a forensic scientist matched a hair found on Scott Watson's boat with Olivia Hope. Police finally had hard evidence that Scott had contact with Olivia before she and Ben Smart went missing on New Year's Eve. But the case against Scott was still far from airtight. And when police went to question him again, he had convenient explanations for everything they'd found. During their second search of his boat.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Detectives pressed Scott about the scratch marks on the inside of the ship's hatch. The police theorized the marks were made by Olivia when Scott had trapped her inside the boat. But Scott claimed they came from his two nieces, who were on board the Blade in late December, weeks before Ben and Olivia disappeared. According to him, his Nieces were picking at the insulation on the hatch while he and his sister cleaned the boat. Scott pointed out that the scratch marks were all over the inside of the hatch, including on the extreme edges, which those edges were inaccessible when the hatch was closed, meaning they couldn't have been left behind by someone who was trapped under the hatch. And for that matter, the hatch only locked from the inside. If Scott had locked Olivia and Ben in, they could have easily gotten out.

[Carter Roy]

Scott's sister and the rest of his family corroborated the story about his nieces scratching up the insulation. He was apparently pretty upset about the damage at the time, but the authorities weren't swayed, especially because the scratch marks look like they were made by adult nails. Scott's nieces were 2 and 4. Besides that, Scott and his family were close. They'd been on his side since the very beginning, so investigators had a hard time trusting anything they said. And there were the suspiciously clean areas of the blade's stern. Police believed Ben and Olivia's bodies had rubbed against the boat while being dumped overboard, scraping off algae and weeds. However, Scott claimed he had cleaned the hull prior to New Year's. It seemed like he had an answer for everything except the hair samples. He told investigators he had no idea how they got on the boat. He insisted Olivia never came onto the blade, which meant the experts had made a mistake or the hair had gotten on board some other way during the New Year's party.

[Vanessa Richardson]

So this is called secondary transfer. And strictly speaking, it was possible. People naturally shed up to 100 hairs every day. Hypothetically, Olivia may have bumped into Scott during the party. Her hair could have gotten stuck to his jacket or his shoe. Then it might have rubbed off onto the tiger blanket on board the blade. And technically, the DNA test only proved the hair belonged to someone in Olivia's family, so it could have even belonged to her sister Amelia. However, Scott insisted he hadn't seen Olivia or Amelia at the party. But to police, it seemed highly unlikely the hair could have gotten onto his boat accidentally. It was much more plausible that Olivia herself had shed the hair on board the blade just before she disappeared, since the physical evidence was so thin. Thin. The police hadn't yet arrested Scott. They'd hoped confronting him with the hair would make him confess when he doubled down. They decided to try a new tactic.

[Carter Roy]

Knowing how tight Scott was with his family, police thought one of them might know more than they let on. So investigators bugged the Watsons home, their neighbor's house, and even a pay phone across the street all day. Every day, the police listened to the family's private conversations. They also had one of Scott's ex girlfriends call and ask him about the case. As they listened in, the two of them discussed his boat, the New Year's party, and how he was handling all of the negative attention from the media. The operation didn't get the authorities the evidence they were hoping for, but they did learn that the Watson family hated the police. Scott's mom and dad had a particular dislike for lead detective Rob Pope. In the privacy of their home, they made vulgar jokes about how much they despised him. They discussed whether it would be better to shoot him or stab him. They even openly wondered about how much it would cost to put out a hit on him.

[Vanessa Richardson]

The Watsons later insisted this was all in jest. They needed to let off some steam. Journalists had been swarming their house for months. Scott's mom had to leave through the backyard and hop a fence to avoid them. She and the rest of her family accused the police of siccing journalists on them and spreading nasty rumors. Some newspapers even reported that Scott had an incestuous relationship with his sister. It was just rude gossip. But the Watsons felt it was another tactic in the smear campaign against them. The police denied they had any role in that. Even so, the wiretaps affected how the investigators viewed the case. Rob Pope must have listened to their conversations about putting a hit out on him, and it's hard to believe he could dismiss those comments as innocent jokes. Chances were this only intensified the police's efforts to build a case against Scott. They felt that the hair from the tiger blanket and the scratches on the hatch were convincing forensic evidence. But they still faced a problem when it came to their witnesses. Specifically, 32 year old Guy Wallace. Guy was the water taxi driver who saw Ben and Olivia just before they disappeared. And so far, he had refused to identify Scott Watson as the scru stranger who Ben and Olivia had left with. He still claimed the mystery man had longer hair than Scott and was unshaven. The police had shown Guy multiple photo lineups in which he failed to pick Scott's picture out of the pile. The same went for another witness, a bartender at the New Year's party that night. Roz McNeely told the authorities that she remembered the scruffy man who Guy Wallace described. Though she hadn't seen him on the water taxi with Ben and Olivia, she had spotted him earlier while serving drink. She told investigators that the man's eyes stood out to her. They were very narrow. But when detectives showed a photo lineup, she failed to identify Scott Watson as the person she'd seen.

[Carter Roy]

Here was a credible witness trying to give the police more information to help them catch a killer. But the details she gave didn't match their number one suspect. So instead of finding a man who matched her description, police took a different route, trying to make their old suspect fit the new evidence. On April 20, the police put together a fresh photo lineup for Guy and Roz. These pictures were all close ups, taken from the chest up. They included Scott Watson and seven other men who looked similar to him. But the photo of Scott they used was a new one, and it was noticeably different from the ones they'd picked before. The photographer had caught Scott mid blink, making it look like he had narrow eyes. When presented with this new lineup, Guy Wallace spent several minutes examining the photos. Finally, he tentatively pointed to the one of Scott Watson. He said that while he couldn't be sure, the man in that photo looked the closest to the mystery man he remembered. He specifically said they had similar eyes. Ros McNeely also chose the blinking photo of Scott. But she was clear that the picture didn't exactly resemble the man she had seen. Still, Roz could tell from the way the police were acting that they already had a suspect in mind. When she pressed them to tell her who it was, an officer admitted it was Scott Watson. Roz remembered reading a newspaper story months earlier about Scott, which mentioned there was a picture of him taken during the New Year's party. According to the article, the photo showed him clean shaven with short hair. Roz had never actually seen that picture. She had only read about it. So she asked to speak to Detective Pope personally. She was adamant that if she saw a photo taken during the party, she could definitively tell the police whether Scott was the scruffy man she served at the bar. However, Detective Pope refused to show it to her. Pope assured Roz that his team had it all under control. Her help with the photo lineup was more than enough. But Roz went home that night feeling a vague sense of doubt that would haunt her for years.

[Vanessa Richardson]

While she was uncertain, the police were ecstatic. Finally, after more than four months of investigation, they had witness testimony they could use against their number one suspect. Even with their misgivings, both Roz and Guy had picked Scott out of a lineup. Combined with the forensic evidence, the authorities had everything they needed to make an arrest. Scott Watson was going down.

[Jake Halpern]

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[Carter Roy]

When you marry someone, you feel like you really know them. I was just gobsmacked as to what's going on here. Does the name Leslie Manookian mean anything to you? Oh, you bet. Never forget her.

[Jake Halpern]

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[Carter Roy]

On June 15, 1998, 27 year old Scott Watson was arrested in Rangaria, New Zealand. He was charged with the murders of 17 year old Olivia Hope and 21 year old Ben Smart. Though Scott maintained his innocence, he wasn't blindsided by the arrest. For months, the police had been laser focused on him. When they finally slapped the cuffs on him, Scott had just two words for the officers booking him. About time. Olivia's father, Gerald, was relieved to finally have Scott behind bars. The authorities had promised him and both families that Scott was guilty. They were hopeful that the trial would finally bring them the closure they desperately needed it.

[Vanessa Richardson]

On June 10, 1999, the proceedings began. It was one of the highest profile cases in New Zealand's history. By then, Olivia and Ben had been in the news for 18 months straight. Almost everyone in the country had an opinion about the case, and few of them had sympathy for Scott Watson. Even so, going into the courthouse, Scott's defense team was pretty confident. They knew the police had some forensic evidence and witness testimony on their side, but all of it was circumstantial, meaning it didn't conclusively prove Scott's guilt. And most importantly, neither Olivia nor Ben's bodies had been found. Still, Scott's lawyers planned to focus on the timeline, which they thought was the weakest part of the state's case. Guy Wallace and the other passengers on the water taxi claimed Olivia and Ben boarded between 4 and 5am But Scott insisted he was already on his ship, the blade by 2am hours before Ben and Olivia went missing. Several passengers on neighboring boats corroborated his story. They remembered Scott drunkenly waking them up to try and keep the party going. It wasn't a pleasant memory, but it backed up his alibi this was essential to the defense and they were prepared to use these details to their advantage. The but the police threw them a curveball.

[Carter Roy]

In courts, prosecutors introduced what came to be known as the two trip theory. This was exactly what it sounded like. They claimed that Scott did indeed return to the blade around 2am Then at some point after that, probably around 3 o', clock, he came back to shore. The prosecution argued that Scott could have hitched a ride on another passing boat. They had no witness testimony to corroborate the theory, so it was only speculation. But the police didn't need details. All they cared about was proving to the jury that Scott could have returned to the lodge, which would give him just enough time to take the water taxi back with Ben And Olivia at 4:05am this new theory wasn't the only secret weapon the prosecution had in store. They also had two separate jailhouse informants. Both of them claimed that in prison, Scott Watson had openly confessed to murdering Ben and Olivia. In general, juries are cautioned to take these stories with a grain of salt. Oftentimes they're testifying in return for a favorable deal with police. But in Scott Watson's case, the informants had a major effect on the jury. Their identities were protected. So we'll call them Witness A and Witness B. Witness A told the jury that Scott showed him exactly how he'd strangled Olivia Hope. Witness B didn't have the same level of detail, but did testify that Scott had confessed to the murders.

[Vanessa Richardson]

The defense did their best to undermine the informant's stories. During the trial, Witness B admitted to having his sentence reduced because of his cooperation. Not only that, but police. Police gave him a cell phone and a car to use once he was released. Even so, the jury seemed to believe both informants testimonies. And then there was the physical evidence. The prosecution made sure to highlight the scratches found on the blade's hatch. Scott's lawyers blamed the marks on his nieces. But the prosecution proposed the marks were made by Olivia. And the image of her desperately trying to scratch her way out of the boat was a powerful one. Then there was the strand of Olivia's hair that was found on the tiger blanket. Scott Watson still didn't have a good answer for how it could have made its way onto his boat. So in court, his defense tried to question the credibility of the scientist who found the hair, Susan Vintner. On the stand, she admitted that cross contamination from her lab coat was possible. And she acknowledged that there was a small slit in the Ziploc bag containing the Reference hairs from Olivia's brush. The while she didn't find it likely, she said it was possible for reference hairs to get mixed up with the hairs taken from the blanket. Susan Vintner told the jury she was confident in her findings. The hair was Olivia's. It was up to them to decide where it had come from.

[Carter Roy]

In the end, the jury sided with the prosecution. On September 11, 1999, they convicted Scott Watson of two counts of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 17 years. Initially, the decision was met with celebration. The families of Ben and Olivia supported the outcome and Scott's sentence. But in the days after the trial, critics emerged to challenge the police's narrative. And suddenly, the case didn't seem so cut and dry.

[Vanessa Richardson]

A few weeks after the verdict, Roz McNeely, the bartender at the New Year's bash, finally saw the photo of Scott Watson the night of the party. After taking a long look, she was sure that the scruffy man she remembered was not Scott Watson. She told the media she'd been proud that her testimony helped put a murderer behind bars. Now she was afraid that she'd locked an innocent man in prison while the real killer still roamed free. Roz wasn't the only one. After Scott's conviction, Guy Wallace publicly retracted his testimony. He agreed with Roz. The man who was on his water taxi that night wasn't Scott Watson. And the boat he dropped Ben and Olivia off at wasn't the Blade. Within a year, jailhouse informant A had also retracted his statements. He claimed he fabricated his testimony entirely in order to avoid jail time for an unrelated crime. Witness B never recanted his testimony. During the trial, he claimed he struck up a close relationship with Scott in jail. But afterward, it came to light that the two of them never shared a cell, which made people wonder if they were really as close as he claimed. All of these revelations had a major impact on the families of the victims, especially Olivia's father, Gerald Hope. He started to speak out, saying he had doubts about Scott Watson's guilt. Though he still believed Scott could be the killer, he thought the police had mishandled the investigation. In particular, he believed they didn't focus enough effort on finding the blue and white boat that Guy Wallace claimed he saw. He was also unsure about the two trip theory. It felt like the police had spent all this effort getting the facts to fit one suspect rather than following where they led. And Scott's lawyers agreed.

[Carter Roy]

A year after the trial in April 2000, Scott appealed his case. His Attorneys focused extensively on the two trip theory, which they argued had come out of nowhere. Under New Zealand law, a prosecution or defense team can present information that was not previously disclosed, so long as it does not result in an unfair trial. Scott's lawyers claimed that by suddenly presenting the two trip theory, the prosecution had skewed the case. The state disagreed. They ruled that Scott's defense team should have anticipated that kind of argument. And since no additional evidence had come to light since the verdicts, there was nothing to justify a new trial, which meant Scott would remain in jail. But not everyone was giving up on him. Several documentaries and books were written about the case and some of them called the police investigation into question. This completely altered how people viewed Scott. In 2002, a survey found 59% of New Zealanders believe Scott was guilty of murder. By 2007, that number had dropped to 42%. This change prompted Scott to file a formal request to be pardoned by the Governor General. In 2008, the Ministry of Justice appointed an attorney to review the evidence and look into the case. But in 2013, his application was officially denied.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Since then, Scott Watson has had a rocky time in prison. He was reprimanded at least four times for misconduct. He failed two drug tests and beat a fellow inmate unconscious during a fight. None of this has helped him in his bids for freedom. And since he's always maintained his innocence, he has refused to participate in any rehabilitation programs. As a result, Scott's come up for parole four times and been denied each time. Still, in 2025, according to court agreed to re examine the evidence in Scott's case one more time. By then, Scott was 53 years old and had been in prison for almost half of his life. His lawyers argued that the hair analysis and the eyewitness testimony from Guy Wallace were both flawed. According to them, neither should have been admissible in the original trial. But on September 9, 2025, a court court ruled against them. In a 291 page decision, they found that the hair analysis was presented properly to the jury. Back in 1999, Scott was once again sent back to prison. And as of this recording, he has few, if any appeals left.

[Carter Roy]

It's a disappointing conclusion to a grim story. In the years since Olivia Ho in Ben Smart's disappearance, the investigation into Scott Watson has frequently taken center stage. And as the public became more convinced of his possible innocence, his story has overshadowed Ben's and Olivia's. For the Hope and Smart families, this has been the biggest tragedy of all. They're still desperate for answers, but because of the way the police handled the case, it's difficult to know what really happened that New Year's day. Back in 2016, Gerald Hope spoke with Scott Watson in prison. During their discussion, he wasn't fully convinced of Scott's innocence, but he did tell Scott, we never got the truth. We haven't got the truth yet. Hopefully one day they will. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy here with special guest Vanessa Richardson and this is True Crime Stories. Come back next week for the story of a new murder murder and all the people it affected.

[Vanessa Richardson]

Thanks Carter. Murder True Crime Stories is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media, Rimehouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

[Carter Roy]

And to enhance your Murder True Crime Stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad free and instead of having to wait for each episode of a two part series, you'll get access to both at once plus exciting bonus content. We'll be back on Tuesday. True Crime Stories is hosted by me, Carter, Roy and special guest Vanessa Richardson and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Murder True Crime Stories team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Natalie Pertzofsky, Laurie Marinelli, Sarah Camp, Terrell Wells, Molly Quinlan, Artwick, Hania Said and Russell Nash. Thank you for listening.

[Jake Halpern]

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