Fluoride + Communism = Mind Control?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Fluoride + Communism = Mind Control?"
Conspiracy Theories by Spotify Studios
Release Date: June 18, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Fluoride + Communism = Mind Control?" from Spotify Studios' Conspiracy Theories podcast, hosts Carter Roy and his co-host delve deep into the controversial subject of water fluoridation. They explore the historical roots, the evolution of conspiracy theories surrounding fluoride, and the modern debates that question its safety and purpose in public drinking water.

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The History of Water Fluoridation

Early Discoveries and Adoption

The journey of fluoride in public health began in 1901 when Dr. Frederick McKay, a young dentist in Colorado Springs, Colorado, observed unusual splotchy stains on his patients' teeth (00:47). Locals referred to this condition as "Colorado Brown Stain," now known as dental fluorosis. McKay's investigation revealed that high levels of fluoride in the local water supply were causing these stains.

Collaborating with Dr. G.V. Black, McKay discovered that while dental fluorosis was aesthetically displeasing, it also rendered teeth more resistant to cavities and decay (05:27). This led to further studies, including a significant one in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where in 1944, fluoride was added to the drinking water. The initial 15-year study was declared a success after just four years, showing a 60% reduction in cavities among 30,000 school-aged children (08:06). By 1954, over 20 million Americans were receiving fluoridated water, and fluoride toothpaste hit the shelves shortly thereafter (09:35).

Widespread Implementation

By 2010, Grand Rapids celebrated the very first fluoridation plant with a commemorative plaque. As of 2022, the CDC reported that approximately 209 million Americans, nearly three-quarters of the U.S. population, had access to fluoridated public water systems (10:09).

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Early Opposition and Emergence of Conspiracy Theories

Tragic Incidents and Initial Skepticism

The initial enthusiasm for water fluoridation was not without setbacks. In 1942, a tragic incident at a state hospital in Oregon led to the death of 47 individuals due to accidental ingestion of sodium fluoride (12:42). This event planted seeds of doubt among the public, fostering skepticism about the safety of fluoride in drinking water.

Rise of the Anti-Fluoride Movement

Alexander Wallace, a local poet from Stevens Point, Wisconsin, became one of the earliest leaders of the anti-fluoride movement in 1949 (15:37). Believing fluoride to be a poison, Wallace successfully rallied 1,300 signatures to put fluoridation to a public vote. In September 1950, before the referendum, city officials preemptively halted fluoridation. However, during a rally, Wallace made a pivotal announcement that led to public backlash, resulting in Stevens Point residents rejecting fluoride in their water—a significant early victory for the anti-fluoride faction (17:04).

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Conspiracy Theories Linking Fluoride to Communism and Mind Control

The Cold War and McCarthyism Era

Fluoride's adoption coincided with the end of World War II and the onset of the Cold War, a period rife with paranoia and fear of communist infiltration. Senator Joseph McCarthy's rampant anti-communist witch hunts provided fertile ground for conspiracy theories linking fluoride to communist agendas (17:33).

The John Birch Society's Claims

Founded by Robert H.W. Welch Jr., the John Birch Society amplified McCarthy's fears, suggesting that fluoride was a tool for communist mind control. Welch went as far as claiming that secret societies like the Illuminati and Freemasons were using fluoride to weaken the American populace's resistance to communist domination (18:23). These unfounded theories posited that fluoride reduced personal agency, leading inevitably to increased government control.

Nazi Experiments and Fabricated Evidence

Further sensationalism arose with allegations that the Nazi party had used fluoride for mind control during the Holocaust and that the Soviet Union continued such practices on prisoners of war (20:07). However, these claims lack credible evidence. Experts, including those from the U.S. Holocaust Museum and the Fluoride Action Network, have debunked these theories, highlighting the absence of historical data supporting such atrocities (21:42).

Moreover, investigations revealed that Charles Perkins, purportedly the source of Nazi mind control fluoride theories, likely never existed and was possibly a fabrication by self-published authors in the 1990s to bolster anti-fluoride claims (21:56).

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Modern Resurgence: Fluoride’s Impact on IQ and Health

Recent Studies and Public Concerns

In 2025, the spotlight on fluoride intensified with studies suggesting a potential link between elevated fluoride levels in drinking water and reduced IQ scores in children—a claim initially supported by flawed research from the University of Texas but later attributed to accidental high fluoride levels (32:10). The National Toxicology Program's review concluded there is "moderate confidence" that fluoride could lower children's IQ by 2 to 5 points (32:57). However, these findings primarily relate to excess fluoride consumption, often exceeding recommended levels (33:55).

Scientific Community’s Stance

The American Dental Association and other health organizations maintain that fluoride's benefits in preventing tooth decay outweigh potential risks when consumed at recommended levels. They advocate for continued research to better understand fluoride's effects while emphasizing the importance of dosage (35:29).

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Economic Interests and the Fluoridation Debate

Cost-Benefit Analysis

Fluoridating water is relatively inexpensive, estimated at around $1 per person per year in the United States, amounting to roughly $209 million annually (28:30). The return on investment is substantial, with studies indicating that every dollar spent on fluoridation saves Americans between $20 to $50 in dental costs annually (29:12).

Influence of the Sugar and Dental Industries

Opponents argue that industries such as sugar manufacturers and dental product companies have vested interests in fluoridation. For instance, the Sugar Research Foundation in 1949 reportedly funded fluoride research to promote stronger teeth, encouraging higher sugar consumption without increased dental care costs (26:17). Conversely, dental companies benefit financially from reduced need for dental treatments when public water is fluoridated, as evidenced by rising dental stocks when municipalities consider reducing fluoride (30:28).

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Current Status and Conclusions

Balancing Benefits and Risks

While fluoride remains a cornerstone in dental public health, ongoing debates highlight the necessity for balanced perspectives. The consensus among health professionals is that fluoride is beneficial for oral health when used appropriately. However, concerns persist regarding overconsumption and its potential neurological effects, especially in vulnerable populations.

Public Empowerment and Choice

Listeners are encouraged to stay informed about their local water fluoridation levels through resources like the CDC's My Waters Fluoride Page. For those seeking to limit fluoride intake, affordable home water purifiers are available, providing alternatives without permanently switching to bottled water.

Final Thoughts

The hosts conclude that while conspiracy theories around fluoride have evolved, mainstream scientific evidence supports its use in public water systems. They emphasize that the real threats lie not with fluoride but with misconceptions propagated by fringe groups. As research continues, the importance of transparency and informed decision-making in public health policies remains paramount.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Carter Roy (07:08): "Dental fluorosis is caused by high levels of fluoride."

• Co-host (18:05): "The John Birch Society argues that it's a communist tool."

• Carter Roy (20:28): "They say unfounded conspiracy theories only serve to weaken what is, in their view, a legitimate case against artificially fluoridating drinking water."

• Co-host (32:57): "The question is, are they true?"

• Carter Roy (35:29): "The science still says that the biggest health risk fluoridated water poses is the same as it's always been, dental fluorosis."

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References

For a more comprehensive understanding of fluoride conspiracies and the ongoing debates, the hosts recommend consulting the 1985 Wilson Quarterly article "America's Longest Fight Over Fluoridation" by Donald McNeil and exploring current coverage by Science Versus and The Journal.

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Note: This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the podcast episode, integrating direct quotes with timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Carter Roy]

In 1999, the CDC listed fluoridated drinking.

[Co-host]

Water as one of the 10 greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. The list also included access to family planning and contraceptive services and the recognition of tobacco as a public health hazard.

[Carter Roy]

At the time, an estimated 144 million Americans had access to water with added fluoride, a feat credited with improving oral health across the socioeconomic spectrum.

[Co-host]

And as you probably know because your dentist has told you, oral health plays.

[Carter Roy]

A major role in overall health, helping.

[Co-host]

Our bodies fight infections and prevent complications like heart disease, pneumonia, clogged arteries and stroke. But recently, the tides of public opinion have shifted.

[Carter Roy]

In May 2025, Utah became the first.

[Co-host]

State to ban fluoride in public drinking water. The move happened amidst an ongoing debate questioning whether its health benefits and outweigh its potential risks. One of the biggest faces of that fight has been Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

[Carter Roy]

Now the 26th Secretary of the U.S.

[Co-host]

Department of Health and Human Services and a nephew of the man we've probably.

[Carter Roy]

Spent the most amount of time talking.

[Co-host]

About on this show. But before we drill too deep into.

[Carter Roy]

The current discourse, we want to go back to its roots.

[Co-host]

See, controversy and fluoride have long gone hand in hand.

[Carter Roy]

Since the very first push for fluoride to be added to our drinking water, there have been people biting back.

[Co-host]

And every step of the way, conspiracy.

[Carter Roy]

Theories have been there, shaping the narrative.

[Co-host]

Baring their fangs and chipping away at public trust. So brace yourself and open wide for.

[Carter Roy]

The strange history and latest wisdom around.

[Co-host]

Fluoride and your teeth. Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast. I'm Carter Roy.

[Carter Roy]

You can find us here every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on.

[Co-host]

Instagram heconspiracypod and we would love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Stay with us.

[Steve Fishman]

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[Narrator]

So why does most of the United.

[Carter Roy]

States add fluoride to its drinking water?

[Co-host]

Let's go back to the beginning.

[Carter Roy]

In 1901, a young dentist opens a practice in Colorado Springs, Colorado. His name is Dr. Frederick McKay, and McKay quickly notices something unusual about his patient's teeth. Many have permanent splotchy stains covering their enamel.

[Co-host]

This comes as A surprise to McKay.

[Carter Roy]

Who'S new to the area, but he.

[Co-host]

Learns its old hat for the locals.

[Carter Roy]

They already have a name for it.

[Co-host]

They call it Colorado Brown Stain. Today we call it dental fluorosis.

[Carter Roy]

McKay goes on the hunt for answers.

[Co-host]

And with the help of another dentist, Dr. G.V. black learns that dental fluorosis, though not.

[Carter Roy]

Aesthetically pleasing, comes with some benefits. It seems to make teeth more resistant to cavities and decay. He also learns the stain isn't regionally unique. He eventually finds other outbreaks in communities across the country, including the small town of Oakley, Idaho. In 1923, McKay travels to Oakley and speaks to parents who say their kid's stains appeared as after their town switched its water supply. On McKay's suggestion, the town reverts back to their old water source, and within a few years, the stain's prevalence dies down. The change reinforces a theory that water Is somehow connected to fluorosis. But McKay doesn't know how until he travels with another colleague to the site of a third outbreak in bauxite, Arkansas.

[Narrator]

There, McKay begins testing the local water.

[Co-host]

Supply, and his research unwittingly places him in the political fray.

[Carter Roy]

Bauxite is a company town owned by the aluminum company of America, and locals have been raising alarms about its cookware.

[Co-host]

Factories Located near their homes.

[Narrator]

Some believe aluminum is poisonous and are.

[Carter Roy]

Worried about the potential effects their proximity.

[Narrator]

Could have on their health.

[Co-host]

And this discourse ultimately works in McKay's favor.

[Carter Roy]

Having a stake in tamping down public fears, the aluminum company's chief chemist, a man named H.V. churchill, runs his own tests on the town's water.

[Co-host]

And because Churchill has access to more sophisticated technology, he finds what McKay wasn't able to.

[Narrator]

The water is contaminated not with aluminum.

[Carter Roy]

Or chemicals, but with high levels of fluoride.

[Co-host]

Churchill sends his results to McKay, who.

[Carter Roy]

Then collects samples from other communities and eventually reaches a conclusion. Dental fluorosis is caused by high levels of fluoride. In the 1930s, the head of the dental hygiene unit at the national Institutes of Health, Dr. H. Tranley Dean, takes McKay's research and runs with it. He tests a theory that lower concentrations of fluoride Might be able to strengthen.

[Co-host]

Enamel without causing unwanted discoloration.

[Narrator]

And he eventually lands on what he.

[Carter Roy]

Considers an ideal ratio. 1 milligram of fluoride to every liter of water. Picture 1 million equal sized balls filling up a swimming pool. Now throw one more ball in.

[Co-host]

That last ball is Dean's recommended fluoride dose.

[Carter Roy]

Now, the results aren't 100% perfect.

[Co-host]

Even at that ratio, Dean finds that.

[Carter Roy]

A small percentage of especially sensitive people.

[Co-host]

Will likely still experience mild fluorosis.

[Carter Roy]

In his opinion, the overall results would be worth it. But to really prove his claim, he needs to take his theory to the.

[Co-host]

Next level by testing it out on humans.

[Carter Roy]

In 1944, Dean gets his first opportunity. The city commission of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

[Narrator]

Votes to add fluoride to their drinking water.

[Co-host]

The study tracks the oral health of.

[Carter Roy]

30,000 school aged kids. It's meant to last 15 years, but officials declare the program a success four years early. In that time, they see a 60% drop in cavities and tooth decay. Before the study is completed, more American cities adopt their own programs.

[Co-host]

And soon the practice spreads like wildfire.

[Carter Roy]

By 1954, more than 20 million Americans receive artificially fluoridated tap water. Two years later, Crest Recovery releases its first fluoride toothpaste. Seven years after that, the US federal government publishes its first how to manual. Flash forward to 2010 and a plaque gets erected in Grand Rapids, Michigan, celebrating the very first fluoridation plant.

[Co-host]

As of 2022, CDC data indicates that.

[Carter Roy]

About 209 million people, or nearly 3/4 of the United States population, receives water through publicly fluoridated systems.

[Co-host]

Which brings us to another question. What is fluoride?

[Carter Roy]

Well, it isn't one thing, it's many.

[Co-host]

Fluorine with an ine is a highly unstable toxic gas at room temperature.

[Carter Roy]

Because it's so unstable, fluorine rarely appears.

[Co-host]

In nature in its pure form. It generally wants to bond with other elements like sodium or calcium to form a binary compound and become more stable.

[Carter Roy]

You'll hear people call any compound that has fluorine in it a fluoride.

[Co-host]

Regardless of its specific chemical bonds, sodium fluoride, calcium fluoride doesn't really matter. It can get shorthanded to fluoride.

[Carter Roy]

But it's important to note not all.

[Narrator]

Fluorides are the same.

[Co-host]

When people talk about fluoridating water today, they're talking About 1 of 3 Fluorosilic acid, sodium fluorosilicate, and sodium fluoride.

[Carter Roy]

Of those, sodium fluoride was the first.

[Co-host]

Ever put into practice, and it's still an ingredient today.

[Carter Roy]

But years before it helped protect our.

[Narrator]

Teeth, sodium fluoride was used for another.

[Co-host]

Purpose altogether, as a pesticide.

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[Co-host]

In 1942, three years before Grand Rapids, Michigan, would become the first town in the United States to artificially fluoridate its drinking water. Tragedy strikes a state hospital in Oregon.

[Carter Roy]

On the evening of November 18, 467.

[Co-host]

Patients and employees fall suddenly ill. The symptoms begin within five minutes of their nightly meal.

[Carter Roy]

Vomiting, blue lips, severe cramps in their legs and stomachs. Some are unable to stand and are forced to crawl on the hospital floor.

[Co-host]

Others vomit blood. Local doctors rush to the hospital to try and help, but there's only so much they can do. The building's morgue is only meant to hold two to three bodies at a time. And by morning, 40 people are dead. Eventually, the that number climbs to 47. Officials consider the possibility of mass murder.

[Carter Roy]

Or intentional sabotage somehow tied to the war overseas.

[Co-host]

But an investigation reveals a much less sinister cause. A kitchen related accident. The hospital was short staffed and underfunded that night. One of the cooks sent a patient to the basement to grab ingredients for dinner. The patient returned with what they thought was powdered milk for that night's scrambled eggs. But what was actually cockroach poison. The cooks mixed the white powder into the food without a second thought. They didn't realize their mistake until after people started getting ill. Autopsies determined that the deaths were caused by ingesting large amounts of sodium fluoride, which looks like white powder in some cases.

[Carter Roy]

The deceased had reportedly eaten more sodium fluoride than eggs.

[Co-host]

And research suggests that just 5 grams of the compound can prove fatal to humans. For perspective, that's the same weight as a single US Nickel.

[Carter Roy]

Now, sodium fluoride hasn't just been used.

[Co-host]

As an insect pesticide. It's historically been added to rat poisons as well. But context matters. In this case, dosage matters. Chlorine is also toxic, but we still.

[Carter Roy]

Put it in our pools. Morphine can be incredibly deadly, but we use it to manage pain.

[Co-host]

Even certain vitamins are toxic in large doses.

[Carter Roy]

Hell, drinking too much water with or.

[Co-host]

Without fluoride in it can send you to an early grave.

[Carter Roy]

Yes, what happened at that Oregon State.

[Co-host]

Hospital is a tragedy. But how many other mass fluoride poisonings come to mind? Still, at a time when the whole system was in its infancy, can you blame someone for questioning whether it's beneficial to add a known rat poison to public drinking water? Take Alexander Wallace, for example, in 1949.

[Carter Roy]

Wallace is a local poet and a.

[Co-host]

Bit of a rabble rouser, and his.

[Carter Roy]

Rabble rousing turns him into one of the earliest leaders of the anti fluoride movement.

[Narrator]

1949 is four years after the first.

[Co-host]

Fluoridated water program in Grand Rapids. The Concept is still novel for most.

[Carter Roy]

Americans, and Wallace learns that his hometown.

[Narrator]

Of Stevens Point, Wisconsin plans to follow suit.

[Co-host]

From the jump, Wallace is completely against the idea because in his mind, fluoride is a poison. And as we mentioned, he's technically not wrong, even if his threat assessment is considerably off base. To try to prevent an artificial fluoridation.

[Carter Roy]

Program in Stevens Point, Wallace creates a petition and successfully collects 1300 signatures that brings the issue of fluoridated water to a referendum, forcing city officials to put it on the ballot in September 1950. In the lead up to the vote, Wallace writes songs and hands out anti fluoride literature to try to shape public sentiment.

[Narrator]

And in the end, one of his.

[Carter Roy]

Arguments, that people shouldn't blindly trust the.

[Co-host]

Government is made for him.

[Carter Roy]

Before September arrives, he finds out that city officials had already started fluoridating the water before a vote could even take place.

[Narrator]

Wallace makes a shocking announcement at one.

[Co-host]

Of his rallies, and the public backlash is swift.

[Carter Roy]

Even though officials reverse course come September.

[Co-host]

Residents overwhelmingly vote to reject fluoride in their water.

[Carter Roy]

It's the first major defeat of its kind in the United States, and it.

[Co-host]

Gives way to more opposition and conspiracy theories.

[Narrator]

The beginning of experimental fluoridation programs coincides.

[Co-host]

With a politically tumultuous chapter of American history, the tail end of World War.

[Carter Roy]

II and the beginning of the Cold War. Conspiracy theories about communist spies infiltrating American institutions run rampant, peddled on a national.

[Co-host]

Level by Wisconsin Senator Joseph McCarthy. And fluoride's implementation gets inextricably wrapped up in. In America's second Red Scare.

[Carter Roy]

Out of this sea of paranoia and fear, a group called the John Birch Society forms. Founded by retired candy magnate Robert H.W. welch Jr. The John Birch Society echoes McCarthy's claims.

[Co-host]

And takes them one step further.

[Carter Roy]

Welch suggests that secret societies like the Illuminati and Florida Freemasons are somehow wrapped.

[Co-host]

Up in a communist agenda.

[Carter Roy]

He even claims Soviet agents have already infiltrated American schools and churches. In the case of fluoride, the John Birch Society argues that it's a communist tool.

[Co-host]

Now, the group doesn't really get into specifics around how that works, but their logic follows the slippery slope argument.

[Carter Roy]

Allowing the government to make decisions that impact public health without the public's consent sets a dangerous precedent, one that inevitably leads to less personal agency and more government control.

[Co-host]

They essentially draw a straight line from artificial fluoridation to a full blown communist takeover. Though many in the anti fluoride movement remain skeptical of Welch's more fringe beliefs.

[Carter Roy]

More and more groups echo the Birch.

[Co-host]

Society's position on fluoride, among them the Ku Klux Klan and the Citizens Medical Reference Bureau. But at some point, the alleged threat of fluoridated water becomes much less ideological.

[Carter Roy]

And much more literal.

[Co-host]

Eventually, an allegation is made that the Nazi party used fluoride experimentation to make populations easier to control. You might hear sources trace this claim back to 1954 and a chemist and author named Charles Perkins.

[Carter Roy]

He supposedly wrote about fluoride as mind control in a piece that included the following. Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual's power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain.

[Co-host]

And will thus make him submissive to.

[Carter Roy]

The will of those who wish to govern him. In his writing, Perkins allegedly said that Nazis experimented with fluoride on Jewish populations.

[Co-host]

During the Holocaust and that the Russians used it on their own prisoners of war. On their face, the accusations are damning.

[Narrator]

The question is, are they true?

[Co-host]

In short, almost certainly not. Perkins never provided any evidence to support his claims and no evidence has materialized since. Of course, we now know the Nazis conducted all kinds of shocking and inhumane.

[Narrator]

Experiments on humans, some related to mind control.

[Co-host]

The United States and the CIA did as well, through a secret program called MK Ultra. You may have heard of it, we've covered it extensively on this show.

[Carter Roy]

But with respect to fluoride, a spokesperson from the U.S. holocaust Museum says there is no reason to believe it was.

[Co-host]

Ever used in Nazi experiments.

[Carter Roy]

Even chemists from high profile anti fluoridation organizations like the Fluoride Action Network agree.

[Co-host]

That historical evidence is extremely weak.

[Carter Roy]

They say unfounded conspiracy theories only serve.

[Narrator]

To weaken what is, in their view.

[Co-host]

A legitimate case against artificially fluoridating drinking water.

[Carter Roy]

Moreover, the man who supposedly invented the Nazi mind control theory, Charles Perkins, it's possible he never actually existed. Research by the Poyntner Institute suggests Perkins might have been invented by a self published author in the 1990s as a.

[Co-host]

Way to support their anti fluoride claims. In that case, Nazi mind control conspiracy.

[Carter Roy]

Theories didn't enter the public arena until well after fluoride's mass implementation in the States.

[Narrator]

But other similar theories spread early on.

[Co-host]

Like that fluoride produces so called moronic atheistic slaves. Or that it turns women into nymphomaniacs. Or that it was actually a weapon.

[Carter Roy]

In a plot to, quote, weaken the.

[Co-host]

Aryan race by paralyzing the functions of the frontal lobe. The list of supposed side effects grows.

[Narrator]

Even longer as more Americans gain access.

[Co-host]

Some claim it causes anxiety and memory loss. Perhaps most notable are its alleged links to cancer. Those date back to at least 1950.

[Carter Roy]

When an experiment out of the University of Texas preliminarily finds mice that drink fluoridated water develop cancer earlier than those who don't. The news leaks to the press before.

[Narrator]

Any official conclusions are drawn.

[Co-host]

But by that point the damage is.

[Narrator]

Mostly mostly done even after the scientists.

[Co-host]

Learned they had messed up and accidentally.

[Carter Roy]

Fed all of the mice in their experiment, including the ones in their control group, food that contained large amounts of fluoride.

[Co-host]

The invalidated Texas study is cited by anti fluoride groups for decades to come.

[Carter Roy]

But ultimately the anti fluoride movement never.

[Co-host]

Quite reaches a fever pitch. By the time the Red Scare passes and Senator McCarthy has been impeached for his freedom. Fraudulent Communist Witch Hunt Anti fluoride sentiment enters the social fringe in 1964, Stanley Kubrick's film Dr. Strangelove pokes fun at fluoride conspiracies. In one memorable scene, the character of General Ripper delivers a fervent monologue, saying, do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face? Face the moment is included as a punchline meant to elicit ridicule, indicative of.

[Carter Roy]

The changing tides of public opinion.

[Co-host]

But even as fluoride conspiracy theories fade into the background, they never go away entirely. Their popularity ebbs and flows.

[Narrator]

And now, in 2025, fluoride has re.

[Carter Roy]

Entered the spotlight, and this time its potential harms are being taken seriously by.

[Co-host]

A more mainstream audience.

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[Carter Roy]

Terms apply when it comes to fluoridating.

[Co-host]

Water, the line between concern and conspiracy can feel blurred.

[Carter Roy]

By definition, conspiracies involve secret plans to knowingly break the law or cause harm. And by that measure, there's only one more left for us to discuss that despite its potential health risks, fluoride is added to water in part as a money making scheme. The Fluoride Action Network's website includes an.

[Co-host]

Article called following the money, published in December 2013.

[Narrator]

And it is true, there is money.

[Carter Roy]

To be made in fluoride.

[Co-host]

Let's start with those outside of the.

[Carter Roy]

Fluoride industry whose profits are are more.

[Co-host]

Indirect, like the historic Sugar Research foundation.

[Carter Roy]

Back in 1949, they were a coalition.

[Co-host]

Of sugar manufacturers based in the United States. One of their stated goals was to.

[Carter Roy]

Find how tooth decay may be controlled.

[Co-host]

Effectively without restriction of sugar intake. In his book the Case against Fluoride, chemist and anti fluoride activist Paul Connett.

[Carter Roy]

Claim that sugar lobbies paid considerable sums.

[Co-host]

Of money to fluoride research that year. The money may have incentivized researchers to minimize fluoride's potential health risks.

[Narrator]

It makes sense why sugar companies would.

[Co-host]

Have wanted people to have stronger teeth so people would feel comfortable buying more candy, regardless of the cost.

[Carter Roy]

The thing is, there's been countless more.

[Co-host]

Research studies since 1949, and all those.

[Carter Roy]

Separate and often independent studies have for.

[Co-host]

The most part drawn the same.

[Carter Roy]

Fluoride's benefits outweigh its potential harm. But let's look at who's directly profiting.

[Co-host]

Off of water fluoridation programs today. Of course, there are those companies that make and sell fluoride on purpose.

[Carter Roy]

There are also those that accidentally create.

[Co-host]

It as a byproduct of their other industrial manufacturing processes. They then sell what would otherwise be.

[Carter Roy]

Waste to turn a profit.

[Co-host]

It's a practice that dates back to.

[Carter Roy]

The earliest days of fluoridated water and the Aluminum Company of America.

[Co-host]

You might remember them and their lead chemist, Dr. H.V. churchill.

[Carter Roy]

Separate from direct sales, some, but not all, states receive federal funding from the CDC to support community fluoridated water programs. In theory, that practice could incentivize community.

[Co-host]

Leaders to use fluoride so that access to those funds aren't cut off. Especially if no one's really tracking how the funds are spent. So how much money is there to be made in fluoridated water?

[Carter Roy]

Estimates suggest it costs about $1 per.

[Co-host]

Person per year to fluoridate water.

[Carter Roy]

In the United States, There were about.

[Co-host]

209 million people with public access in 2022. If we took those estimates and made a direct cost to person conversion, that.

[Carter Roy]

Would suggest the cost of the US fluoridated water industry is somewhere around $209 million a year. Even if the actual figure is millions of dollars higher. As far as public health initiatives go, that is incredibly inexpensive.

[Co-host]

And the return on investment is reportedly very high.

[Carter Roy]

Studies estimate that for every $1 spent, the average American saves about 20 to $50 or more in dental costs every year.

[Co-host]

If you want to look where the.

[Carter Roy]

Real money is made in fluoride.

[Co-host]

It's not in community water programs.

[Carter Roy]

It's in infused dental hygiene products sold by private companies.

[Co-host]

That's a multi billion dollar industry, one.

[Carter Roy]

That is separate and almost entirely unrelated to public water. Now, opposition groups like the Fluoride Action.

[Co-host]

Network have argued that dentists and dental companies lobby to support inaccurate research studies promoting fluoride and its benefits. But that argument is antithetical to the.

[Carter Roy]

Existing research that shows fluoridating water leads to Americans spending less money on their teeth.

[Co-host]

Less money for those companies.

[Carter Roy]

In fact, when government officials have made.

[Co-host]

Statements about reducing or eliminating fluoride from.

[Carter Roy]

Public drinking water, the stocks for dental companies have gone up, presumably in anticipation of people spending more money on dental products and procedures.

[Co-host]

And case studies support that cause and effect logic.

[Carter Roy]

The city of Juneau, Alaska removed fluoride.

[Co-host]

From their drinking water in 2007, and.

[Carter Roy]

A 2018 study showed an almost 50% increase in the amount of dental procedures people needed.

[Co-host]

Calgary, Canada removed fluoride from their water in 2011. Then in 2018, the city voted to add it back in after seeing the need for child dental care grow. And it's worth mentioning that research suggests limiting access to fluoridated water impacts low income communities the most. In 2011, the United States drops recommended.

[Carter Roy]

Levels of fluoride from 1 milligram to.

[Narrator]

0.7 milligrams per liter of water.

[Co-host]

The Department of Health and Human Services says the update is meant to minimize the risk of dental fluorosis while still protecting teeth. They saw an uptick in the prevalence and severity of fluorosis and decided to scale back.

[Narrator]

They also pointed out that more and.

[Co-host]

More people had access to other sources of fluoride like toothpastes and mouthwash.

[Narrator]

But in 2025, there are those who claim the compound should be removed from.

[Co-host]

Public drinking water entirely.

[Narrator]

In April, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Said.

[Co-host]

He planned to tell the CDC to stop recommending fluoride in US Drinking water.

[Carter Roy]

He's called fluoride an industrial waste associated.

[Co-host]

With arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders and thyroid disease.

[Narrator]

Now, there are elements of truth in that statement.

[Co-host]

As we discussed, fluoride can be created as a byproduct of industrial manufacturing processes.

[Carter Roy]

But calling it industrial waste ignores the fact that fluoride is a naturally occurring.

[Co-host]

Mineral compound that appears in water, soil and food all over the world without any human intervention. H2O is often a byproduct of industrial manufacturing processes, but that doesn't make water industrial waste. The most attention grabbing news Related to.

[Carter Roy]

Fluoridated water recently revolves around its potential.

[Co-host]

Impact on children's iq. A review of aggregated studies conducted by the US National Toxicology Program concluded with.

[Carter Roy]

Quote, moderate confidence that drinking water with elevated levels of fluoride could lower children's.

[Co-host]

IQs by 2 to 5 points. That has understandably raised alarm bells for.

[Carter Roy]

Some who claim that fluoridated water is.

[Narrator]

Making our kids less intelligent.

[Carter Roy]

But IQ tests only measure certain cognitive.

[Co-host]

Abilities and aren't a direct measure of intelligence. Socioeconomic factors can play a role, and.

[Carter Roy]

None of the studies actually measured how or if fluoride changes the brain on a biological level. It's important to note not all studies the NTP looked at showed an impact on iq.

[Co-host]

Some showed no drop at all, and.

[Carter Roy]

Those that did only saw changes in IQ when children were consuming fluoride in excess levels. In many cases, more than double what's recommended.

[Co-host]

Moreover, as the New York Times put.

[Carter Roy]

It, naturally occurring fluoride seems almost entirely.

[Co-host]

To blame for those especially high levels.

[Carter Roy]

In other words, drops in IQs seem to be mostly, if not entirely, unrelated to government programs. It was happening in places where fluoride.

[Co-host]

Entered water water sources through runoff from.

[Carter Roy]

Rocks and soil, like in the cases.

[Co-host]

Of private wells that aren't closely monitored. Our friends over at Science Versus tackled the subject of fluoride back in April 2025.

[Carter Roy]

Their team dug through the research, read.

[Co-host]

A bunch of papers, and spoke with.

[Carter Roy]

A lot of experts, including an epidemiologist, a professor of community health sciences, and.

[Co-host]

A long list of researchers. One of their biggest takeaways from the.

[Carter Roy]

Health debate was we should be investing in more research.

[Narrator]

Science is a moving target, and the.

[Carter Roy]

More information and data we collect, the.

[Narrator]

Closer to the truth we get and.

[Co-host]

The more accurate our recommendations can be. There's plenty of research that says fluoride is good for your teeth. That's not really in question.

[Narrator]

The American Dental association supports fluoridated water.

[Carter Roy]

They see the benefits to their patients teeth and follow the existing research. But we could have more and better research about its potential harms at currently recommended levels. The science still says that the biggest.

[Co-host]

Health risk fluoridated water poses is the same as it's always been, dental fluorosis. And that's hardly life threatening.

[Carter Roy]

It's when fluoride consumption moves beyond recommended.

[Co-host]

Levels that things get trickier and health risks go up. And while we should keep investigating those risks, We've always been aware of that fact. Like we said, dosage matters. Maybe you're a pregnant woman who wants to to be extra cautious. Maybe you're a black tea lover and.

[Carter Roy]

Think you get plenty of fluoride from the natural fluorides they often provide. Whatever the case, if you live in the United States, you should know state and local municipalities run your public water.

[Co-host]

Systems, not the federal government. And if you're concerned about your personal.

[Carter Roy]

Intake, you can check your local fluoride levels on the CDC's My Waters fluoride page.

[Co-host]

We'll drop a link in the episode.

[Carter Roy]

Description if you happen to find you.

[Co-host]

Live somewhere with higher than recommended levels, don't worry, you have options outside of permanently switching to bottled water.

[Carter Roy]

There are relatively inexpensive home purifiers that.

[Co-host]

Can remove all the fluoride from your tap water.

[Carter Roy]

If you're interested in a more expansive.

[Co-host]

Picture of where the science of fluoride is is right now, we highly recommend checking out Science versus Coverage.

[Carter Roy]

If you're interested in the current political debate over fluoride, our friends over at.

[Co-host]

The Journal have their own episode about that. As for conspiracy theories, our specialty, we can confidently say that big fluoride isn't out to cause you harm and it's your dentist, not communists, who want it in your water. Thank you for watching Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday.

[Carter Roy]

Be sure to check us out on.

[Co-host]

Instagram he conspiracypod, and if you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts. For more information on the history of fluoride conspiracies, we recommend checking out the.

[Carter Roy]

1985 Wilson Quarterly article America's Longest the.

[Co-host]

Fight over fluoridation by Donald McNeil. Among the many sources we used for this episode, we found it extremely helpful to our research. Until next time. Remember, the truth isn't always the best story, and the official story isn't always the truth. This episode was written and researched by Connor Sampson, edited by Maggie Admire, Fact.

[Carter Roy]

Checked by Lori Siegel, engineered by Sam.

[Co-host]

Amezqua, and video edited and sound designed by Ryan Contra. I'm your host, Carter Roy.