Is An Alien Probe Really Coming in November?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Is An Alien Probe Really Coming in November?"

Podcast: Conspiracy Theories — Spotify Studios
Date: October 22, 2025
Host: Carter Roy, Co-host/Narrator

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Overview

This episode of Conspiracy Theories dives into the latest interstellar mystery electrifying both the scientific community and the conspiracy corners of the internet: could a newly discovered object, dubbed "3I Atlas," actually be an alien probe headed for Earth in November? Carter Roy and his co-host pull apart the facts, consider hypotheses from Harvard astrophysicist Avi Loeb, sift through scientific pushback, and trace a wider history of mysterious objects from space—all while exploring the public's ongoing fascination with the possibility of extraterrestrial contact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Voyager Probes and the Golden Record

(00:00–01:14)

• The episode opens with NASA's 1977 launch of Voyager 1 and 2, their mission to study the outer planets, and their "Golden Record": a phonograph carrying images, sounds, and greetings in 55 languages as a potential message to alien finders.
• The hosts propose the hypothesis: what if other civilizations have done the same and sent probes our way?
• Notable quote:

  "But what if we're not the only ones in the history of the universe who've had this idea? What if other intelligent life out there has sent their own version of the Voyagers?"
  —Host/Narrator (01:14)

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2. Discovery of Comet 3I Atlas: An Interstellar Visitor

(04:15–05:54)

• In July 2025, the ATLAS telescope network in Chile spots a fast-moving object not bound by the Sun—later named Comet 3I Atlas (the third known interstellar object after Oumuamua in 2017 and 2I Borisov in 2019).
• Its speed and path (passing near Mars, Jupiter, Venus) quickly raise eyebrows.
• Loeb calculates the odds of this transit pattern happening randomly as 0.0005%.

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3. Avi Loeb’s Hypothesis: Alien Tech or Just a Big Rock?

(06:11–08:58)

• Loeb, a well-credentialed Harvard astronomer, notes several "anomalies":

  • 3I Atlas's unusual brightness (suggesting a large size—up to 20km, now revised to 5.6km).
  • Its improbably close flybys of three planets.
  • Lack of a cometary tail—unusual for comets.

• Loeb co-authors a provocative paper suggesting 3I Atlas could be artificial, perhaps alien technology—but he emphasizes this is an exercise in open scientific inquiry, not an outright claim.

• Notable quote:

  "Now, Loeb concludes his paper by essentially saying this thing might be a comet and not something sent by aliens. He adds this is the most likely outcome and says some of his ideas are like a thought experiment."
  —Carter Roy (09:26)

• NASA soon releases clearer images showing a dust “cocoon,” and many experts lean toward the comet explanation, but Loeb remains unconvinced—pointing out we still lack proof.

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4. The Internet Runs Wild: Aliens, Probes, and Motherships

(14:04–15:44)

• Online, wild theories balloon, claiming 3I Atlas is an alien probe (or worse: a mothership), timed to arrive in November 2025.
• Reference to Baba Vanga, a Bulgarian mystic, and her purported prophecy that 2025 would be the year humanity makes contact—during an unspecified "major sporting event."
• The episode clarifies: these claims are rooted in Loeb's speculative “thought experiment” but are distorted in conspiracy circles.

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5. Physics of a Potential "Probe": The Reverse Solar Oberth Maneuver

(15:52–17:11)

• Loeb's paper describes how if 3I Atlas were artificial, it might use a “reverse Solar Oberth maneuver” at perihelion (closest point to the sun, Oct 29–30, 2025) to change course—and possibly release probes toward Earth.

• The kicker: at perihelion, 3I Atlas will be on the far side of the sun and unobservable from Earth, fueling more “what if” speculation.

• Notable quote:

  "Which means, if you're listening to this episode close to its air date, we cannot currently observe three I ATLAS from here."
  —Carter Roy (17:11)

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6. The Dark Forest Hypothesis & Contact Anxiety

(17:15–19:01)

• Loeb's paper references the "Dark Forest hypothesis," which suggests advanced civilizations stay hidden to avoid detection by potentially hostile neighbors.
• The hosts muse on how Earth has sent out its own “breadcrumbs”—Voyagers, Pioneers, and 50+ years of radio signals.
• Most mainstream experts dismiss the threat, doubting many advanced societies could all stay hidden indefinitely.

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7. Scientific Pushback and Media Frenzy

(19:01–20:06)

• Loeb’s willingness to question the “comet” explanation draws praise for audacity—and pointed criticism from peers. One Oxford astronomer calls the artificial hypothesis “nonsense on stilts.”
• NASA maintains 3I Atlas poses no threat.

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8. The Precedent: Oumuamua—Another Mystery Guest

(20:06–25:02)

• The story flashes back to Oumuamua (2017):
  • Stranger shape (cigar or pancake-like), lack of a tail, and odd brightness fluctuations.
  • Oumuamua accelerated in unexplained ways (usually from “outgassing,” but none was detected).
• Loeb once again suggests an artificial origin, perhaps a light sail.
• He cites “2020 SO”—another mysterious object that turned out to be a lost NASA rocket booster—to highlight how easily space junk can be ambiguous.

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9. IM1: The First Interstellar Meteorite?

(26:51–34:06)

• In 2014, a fast-moving fireball (eventually classified as IM1) was detected over the South Pacific. Its recorded speed suggested interstellar origin.
• Loeb and team launch an expedition, recover sea-floor spherules believed to be meteorite fragments. Some show oddly high (hypothetically “non-solar system”) concentrations of elements.
• Critics point out possible flaws—data from military satellites might not be reliable for meteor tracking, and spherule origins are disputed (“Was that a meteorite impact or just a big truck driving by?”).

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10. Loeb’s Controversial Place in Science

(35:04–37:15)

• Loeb addresses criticism by embracing the role of outsider, invoking persecuted astronomers like Giordano Bruno and Galileo.

• He argues that assuming Earth is unique or alone is “arrogant”—science should remain open to surprising possibilities.

• His "Galileo Project" is an attempt to legitimize research into extraterrestrial phenomena.

• Notable quote:

  "It's arrogant to assume we're alone in the universe or that we're special."
  —Carter Roy paraphrasing Loeb (35:28)

---

11. Big Picture: Are We Close to First Contact?

(37:15–37:50)

• The hosts note that science generally accepts the likelihood of life elsewhere and advocate being open to new discoveries.
• They end with the hopeful yet humble message from President Jimmy Carter, included on Voyager’s Golden Record:

  "We are attempting to survive our time so we may live into yours."
  —President Jimmy Carter, quoted by Carter Roy (37:30)

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–01:14| Voyager probes and the idea of sending/receiving cosmic messages | | 04:15–05:54| Discovery and classification of 3I Atlas | | 06:11–09:26| Avi Loeb's anomalies and hypothesis | | 14:04–15:44| Social media/online conspiracies; Baba Vanga prophecy | | 15:52–17:11| Solar Oberth maneuver, perihelion, and observational blackout | | 17:15–19:01| Dark Forest Hypothesis and existential risk | | 20:06–25:02| Oumuamua case and light sail hypothesis | | 26:51–34:06| IM1 meteorite: discovery, recovery, and controversy | | 35:04–37:15| Loeb's scientific legacy and the Galileo Project | | 37:15–37:50| The cosmic message and speculation on First Contact |

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Memorable Quotes

• "What if other intelligent life out there has sent their own version of the Voyagers?"
  —Co-host/Narrator, 01:14

• "Loeb finds the chances of that happening randomly are low, about 0.0005%. That's a lot of zeros and not much else."
  —Carter Roy, 07:57

• "It's going to be on the other side of the sun from us... We don't know if it's actively changing course or shooting something toward us or just whizzing on by."
  —Carter Roy, 16:57

• "If 2020 SO wound up being artificial, couldn't Oumuamua have been too?"
  —Carter Roy, 24:20

• "It's arrogant to assume we're alone in the universe or that we're special."
  —Carter Roy paraphrasing Loeb, 35:28

• "We are attempting to survive our time so we may live into yours."
  —President Jimmy Carter, Voyager message, 37:30

• "The truth isn't always the best story, and the official story isn't always the truth."
  —Carter Roy, 38:25

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Conclusion

The episode deftly separates scientific curiosity from unfounded speculation while acknowledging humanity’s irresistible urge to seek meaning in unexplained cosmic arrivals. Is 3I Atlas an alien probe, or simply another icy wanderer? The prevailing expert opinion is solidly in the “comet” camp, though Loeb—and the hosts—warn against dismissing the unknown too quickly. With space science moving rapidly and new detection technologies in play, the story is still unfolding—just maybe not as spectacularly as social media would have us believe.

For ongoing updates, the hosts suggest following Avi Loeb’s blog and their own Instagram, promising to keep listeners posted as events develop in real time.

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Transcript

[Carter Roy]

In the late summer of 1977, NASA launched two spacecraft, Voyager 1 and Voyager 2.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The probes were sent to study Jupiter.

[Carter Roy]

Saturn and their moons. After that, they just kept going, sending.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Back tens of thousands of photographs along the way. They also carried something with them, something called the Golden Record.

[Carter Roy]

It's an actual 12 inch phonograph record.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Containing a collection of images and audio recordings from nature sounds to classical music. It also holds greetings in 55 spoken languages. Because the Golden Record is meant to be a message.

[Carter Roy]

See, nobody knew how far the Voyager probes would go or how long they would last.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But they are still going and reporting back to us. Voyager 1 is over 15.5 billion miles from Earth. They're both out in interstellar space beyond our solar system, farther than any object made by humans. So scientists accounted for this possibility that.

[Carter Roy]

One day, maybe millions of years in.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The future, some other life form in the Milky Way galaxy will find them and discover the Golden Record. But what if we're not the only ones in the history of the universe who who've had this idea? What if other intelligent life out there has sent their own version of the Voyagers? According to one Harvard scientist, an alien probe might be visiting our solar system right now.

[Carter Roy]

Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast. I'm Carter Roy.

[Co-host / Narrator]

You can find us here every Wednesday.

[Carter Roy]

You can watch our episodes and more on our new YouTube channel, onspiracytheoriespodcast. And check us out on Instagram @the conspiracypod. And we would love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and please give us your thoughts. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by Focus Features. You've heard the theories. You know the signs. But what if you encountered the First Contact? On October 31st, Focus Features presents Begonia, the new film directed by Yorgos Lanthimos. Two conspiracy theorists are convinced that a high powered CEO isn't just running a corporation. She's behind an elaborate operation to end the planet. Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons star in Begonia. Rated R in select theaters October 24th.

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[Co-host / Narrator]

2025, a telescope in Rio Hurtado, Chile.

[Carter Roy]

Scans the sky above.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It's part of a NASA funded project called atlas, which stands for Asteroid Terrestrial Impact Last Alert System.

[Carter Roy]

And it's one of four telescopes monitoring for asteroids that might be headed toward Earth. But tonight, it finds something different.

[Co-host / Narrator]

An object moving through deep space at 130,000 miles per hour. It's later named Comet 3I Atlas, the third object ever detected in our solar.

[Carter Roy]

System that came from beyond. And that's how it gets its name, 3i Atlas.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The I stands for interstellar, meaning it.

[Carter Roy]

Originated from outside of our solar system.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Three because it's the third, after Oumuamua in 2017 and and two I Borisov.

[Carter Roy]

In 2019 and Atlas as a nod to the team who discovered it. That leaves just the first part of its comet.

[Co-host / Narrator]

That's how it was classified by the.

[Carter Roy]

Minor Planet center, the organization responsible for making exactly this type of identification. You probably have a good idea of what a comet is. An icy celestial object made of dust, rock, and frozen gases. Most comets we know about, which come.

[Co-host / Narrator]

From within our solar system, orbit the sun. But 3i Atlas is on a different orbital path.

[Carter Roy]

It's not bound by our sun's gravity.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It's going so fast, it can fly past the sun, shoot out of our.

[Carter Roy]

Solar system, and keep going.

[Co-host / Narrator]

And depending on who you ask it, it might not even be a comet. It could be alien technology. That possibility was proposed by Dr. Abraham.

[Carter Roy]

Avi Loeb, and he has official titles for days. Buckle up. Here we go.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He's the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard. He served as the chair of Harvard's Astronomy Department for nine years, and he's the director of the Institute for Theory and Computation at the Harvard Smithsonian center for Astrophys.

[Carter Roy]

Okay, so he's not just some random guy down the street who thinks raccoons are trying to steal his garbage.

[Co-host / Narrator]

When news breaks that three Eye Atlas has been detected, Loeb keeps his eye on it.

[Carter Roy]

I mean, a lot of scientists do. It's an exciting time.

[Co-host / Narrator]

And Loeb starts to notice a few anomalies. For example, the object's brightness.

[Carter Roy]

In these early days of tracking three.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Eye Atlas, it seems to be reflecting a lot of light for a comet. By Loeb's calculations, that means it could be as big as 20 kilometers in size.

[Carter Roy]

That's over 12.4 miles long.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Incredibly large for an interstellar rock. According to Loeb, we should only expect to see an interstellar object that big once every 10,000 years or so. And again, this is only the third one we've gotten a look at in the past few years, ever since our.

[Carter Roy]

Technology allowed us to start spotting them. Ok, here's another strange the Path 3i Atlas is following. The orbit can tell us a lot where it came from, which is how scientists knew that it was interstellar and where it's going. The trajectory of 3i Atlas will be taking it relatively close to Mars, Jupiter and Venus.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It's flying by three of our eight planets in just one trip.

[Carter Roy]

Loeb finds the chances of that happening randomly are low, about 0.0005%. That's a lot of zeros and not much else. And there's yet another anomaly.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Loeb isn't seeing enough evidence that 3i Atlas has a trail of dust, or.

[Carter Roy]

What we'd call a cometary tail, or.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Which you'd expect to see with a comet. So if it's not a comet, what could it be? Well, that same July, Loeb releases a paper he co authored titled Is the interstellar object 3i Atlas? Alien technology?

[Carter Roy]

You heard me right.

[Co-host / Narrator]

As in something built by an alien species that they launched into space. If it is alien technology, he argues, that could explain these anomalies. An artificial object could give off its own light, it could be larger than your average comet, and it could set its own course, flying close enough to certain planets to get a good look. Now, Loeb concludes his paper by essentially saying this thing might be a comet and not something sent by aliens. He adds this is the most likely outcome and says some of his ideas are like a thought experiment.

[Carter Roy]

But that doesn't mean we can't ask questions we should.

[Co-host / Narrator]

On his blog, Loeb writes, science is fun. It offers an opportunity to learn something new as long as we do not.

[Carter Roy]

Pretend to expect the unexpected. In other words, don't assume anything. Now, in early August, NASA Releases a new image of 3i Atlas.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It was taken by the Hubble Space telescope the previous month, and it offers.

[Carter Roy]

The clearest image seen yet from 277 million miles away.

[Co-host / Narrator]

NASA reports that the photo shows a teardrop shaped cocoon of dust Coming off its solid icy nucleus. Based off the new image, they believe.

[Carter Roy]

3I Atlas could be a lot smaller than originally thought.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Rather than a 20 kilometer behemoth, they.

[Carter Roy]

Suggest it's probably no more than 5.6 kilometers across. Okay. By now, a lot of news outlets.

[Co-host / Narrator]

And experts Are referring to the object as a comet. But Loeb holds out.

[Carter Roy]

Shortly after the Hubble images are released.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He says we still can't definitively say.

[Carter Roy]

That'S what this thing is.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Not without more proof of a tale, not without a good theory or explanation for those other anomalies.

[Carter Roy]

He's pointed out the brightness and the path it's taking past those planets. As three eye Atlas nears Earth, new information comes out every few days.

[Co-host / Narrator]

For example, we learn it has a.

[Carter Roy]

Really high proportion of carbon dioxide Compared to other comets.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It's yet another discovery that means this object is so different from the others we've studied.

[Carter Roy]

We'll include the latest news about 3i Atlas on our Instagram. However, a lot of experts don't agree with Loeb's theory. They're sure this is a comet, and the fact that we couldn't see a tail Just means that three eye Atlas wasn't close enough to the sun yet. See, the tail is affected by things.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Like the sun's heat, radiation, pressure, and solar winds. Okay, one thing everybody can agree on.

[Carter Roy]

We've got to keep an eye on 3i Atlas while we can.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Once it passes the Earth, it won't.

[Carter Roy]

Come back, and it will eventually leave our solar system.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Loeb has championed this idea that we need to keep as many telescopes as.

[Carter Roy]

Possible trained on 3i atlas. He suggests we should use the Juno.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Spacecraft, which is orbiting Jupiter, to capture.

[Carter Roy]

Images when it passes by in March of 2026. Because even if 3i Atlas is just an interstellar comet, we still have a.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Lot to learn from it.

[Carter Roy]

Usually, we have no way of studying other solar systems up close.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But an interstellar comet is essentially bringing another part of the galaxy right to our doorstep.

[Carter Roy]

And if it's not just a comet.

[Co-host / Narrator]

If Loeb's hypothesis turns out to be correct, well, there's something else we should consider. If 3i Atlas really is some kind of alien technology intentionally sent on a.

[Carter Roy]

Course to come within 18 million miles.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Of Mars, could it also change course and head for Earth.

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[Carter Roy]

Where were we? What was I talking about?

[Co-host / Narrator]

Oh, right, that the theory that an alien probe might be headed for Earth. Yeah, okay, well, don't freak out just yet.

[Carter Roy]

On the current path 3i atlas is.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Following, it's not even getting close. It should remain about 170 million miles.

[Carter Roy]

Away at its nearest point.

[Co-host / Narrator]

For perspective, that's 1.8 times farther than.

[Carter Roy]

Our average distance to the sun. That's a long way away.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Still, you might have heard or seen.

[Carter Roy]

Something online, maybe on TikTok or Daily.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Mail, claiming that an alien probe might arrive here on Earth as early as November 2025.

[Carter Roy]

Like now.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Well, these headlines evolved into a few different theories.

[Carter Roy]

That we're going to be attacked, that.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It'S not just a probe, but a massive alien mothership. Or maybe that the aliens are coming to save us from ourselves. Some say this was even predicted by Baba Vanga, the Nostradamus of Bulgaria. She was a mystic who apparently foretold.

[Carter Roy]

911 and the death of Princess Diana.

[Co-host / Narrator]

She also said 2025 would be the year we make contact with aliens. She didn't say what month, but she did note that it would happen during a major sporting event. Perhaps football Sunday, the World Series, or the Trampoline World Championships.

[Carter Roy]

Put it on your calendar. These theories about Three Eye Atlas coming to Earth all stem from one Avi Loeb's paper.

[Co-host / Narrator]

That's the same one we mentioned. The one titled is the Interstellar Object 3i Atlas.

[Carter Roy]

Alien Technology.

[Co-host / Narrator]

LOEB and his co authors describe how the object could hypothetically get here. They say if it is indeed some kind of artificial object, then it can use something called the reverse Solar Oberth.

[Carter Roy]

Maneuver to head in our direction. Okay, here's how Low proposes that would work.

[Co-host / Narrator]

On October 29th or 30th, 3i Atlas will reach its perihelion, the closest point it will get to the Sun.

[Carter Roy]

Thank you, team, for helping me learn a new word. Could be good for Scrabble. Right now it's moving extremely fast, but.

[Co-host / Narrator]

At perihelion, a probe could use the sun's gravitational pull plus its own thrusters to slow down, and that would allow it to change its course and head for Earth. Or, he theorizes, maybe three I ATLAS will just release smaller probes and send.

[Carter Roy]

Those to our planet.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The kicker? When it reaches perihelion, we're not going to be able to see it from.

[Carter Roy]

Our telescopes on Earth. It's going to be on the other side of the sun from us.

[Co-host / Narrator]

We'll lose sight of it for a.

[Carter Roy]

While before and after that. Which means, if you're listening to this episode close to its air date, we.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Cannot currently observe three I ATLAS from here.

[Carter Roy]

We don't know if it's actively changing course or shooting something toward us or just whizzing on by. And before you get excited about First Contact, there's one part of Loeb's paper I haven't mentioned yet. The part where he brings up the Dark Forest hypothesis. You might remember we talked about the Dark Forest hypothesis in our episode Where.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Are all the Aliens?

[Carter Roy]

If it sounds a little sinister, that's because it kind of is.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The Dark Forest hypothesis suggests the reason.

[Carter Roy]

We haven't made contact with other intelligent life in the universe or found evidence of older alien civilizations is because they've been lying low. They are out there, but they're in hiding because they know there's a good chance that making contact with their interstellar neighbors could spell disaster.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Any alien life form could be hostile.

[Carter Roy]

So goes this hypothesis anyway.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But the fact that Loeb's paper mentions it seems to suggest Three Eye ATLAS.

[Carter Roy]

Could be a threat. And us Earthlings better hope it's not the case. I mean, in addition to the Voyager.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Probes, we've sent out three others that are on their way out of our solar system.

[Carter Roy]

Pioneer 10, Pioneer 11, and New Horizons.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Plus, we've been beaming radio transmissions into space for over 50 years. If an advanced civilization out there wanted to find us, and kill us. We've left them a few trails of breadcrumbs. Now, luckily for us, experts don't think.

[Carter Roy]

This dark forest hypothesis is the most likely scenario. They think it would be too hard for so many advanced societies to stay totally hidden. Okay. Suffice it to say, Loeb's paper, the Dark Forest Alien Probe. It might not be a comment paper. It's been met with a good deal of controversy.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But one Oxford astronomer. Any suggestion that it's artificial is nonsense on stilts and is an insult to the exciting work going on.

[Carter Roy]

To understand this object, and to be clear, NASA has stated from the outset.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Comet 3I Atlas poses no threat to Earth and will remain far away.

[Carter Roy]

So as far as prominent scientists with Harvard pedigrees go, Loeb is out there on a limb.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It doesn't seem to deter him, though. Well, after all, he's no stranger to controversy. Like when he asked similar questions about Oumuamua, the first interstellar object we ever detected.

[Carter Roy]

Okay, we're jumping back a few years.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Now to October 2017.

[Carter Roy]

That's when the Pan Starrs 1 telescope caught sight of it.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The first confirmed visitor from another solar system. According to NASA, the Hawaiian name Oumuamua translates to a messenger from afar arriving first.

[Carter Roy]

Good name. Like Three Eye Atlas, it was initially classified as a comet.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But not everyone was on the same page. Others thought it could be an asteroid.

[Carter Roy]

Made up of mostly rock rather than ice and dust.

[Co-host / Narrator]

They could tell it had a really unique shape.

[Carter Roy]

At first, it was described as elongated and thin, like a cigar. Later studies found it might look more.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Like a pancake, round and flat. Either way, the shape wasn't typical of.

[Carter Roy]

The comets we're used to.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Plus, Oumuamua had no visible cometary tail.

[Carter Roy]

Sound familiar?

[Co-host / Narrator]

And its brightness raised questions, too.

[Carter Roy]

Get this.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Every 7.3 hours, the brightness would change.

[Carter Roy]

By a factor of 10.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Almost like it was blinking.

[Carter Roy]

When I heard that, I was like.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Whoa, wait a minute.

[Carter Roy]

Time out. I need to hear more. Well, experts realized it was tumbling end over end and that affected how much light it reflected back at us. It was a logical explanation, but still unusual for a comet.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Then there was this. Scientists observed Oumuamua accelerating in unexpected ways, seemingly at random. Okay, I didn't know this before. Comets can accelerate due to outgassing. That's normal.

[Carter Roy]

That's what happens when they heat up and start to release their gases.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But with Oumuamua, we couldn't see its coma.

[Carter Roy]

The fuzzy, cloudy atmosphere that's usually surrounding.

[Co-host / Narrator]

A comet, which is made by Outgassing, so we couldn't see the proof of.

[Carter Roy]

Why it was making those random movements.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The official conclusion? We don't need to see proof. If it moves like a comet, then.

[Carter Roy]

It'S gotta be a comet. We probably just can't see the outgassing with our current telescopes. Avi Loeb wasn't so ready to agree with that conclusion.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He wrote a paper suggesting we should consider the possibility of an artificial origin. It was later published in the peer.

[Carter Roy]

Reviewed journal Astrobiology in 2022.

[Co-host / Narrator]

So, years before Three Eye Atlas came along, Loeb was making the same case, generally speaking, about Oumuamua, that it could be made by extraterrestrials. Specifically, he theorized it could be some kind of large flat light sail, a type of spacecraft that can propel itself using sunlight. He argued we should at least be considering the possibility since Oumuamua was so unique. And he added this anecdote.

[Carter Roy]

The same PanSTARRS one telescope that discovered.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Oumuamua had in 2020 detected another mysterious object orbiting near the Earth. It was dubbed 2020. So Loeb said it was similar to Oumuamua in that it showed no outgassing. But this case had an interesting outcome.

[Carter Roy]

And that's what Loeb was focused on.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Eventually Experts realized that 2020 so was artificial.

[Carter Roy]

It just wasn't made by aliens. It was made by humans. It was space junk. Oops. Took out the garbage. Turns out it was actually a broken.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Off rocket booster from NASA's Surveyor 2 mission in 1966. It was designed to land on the moon and take lunar data in preparation for the Apollo missions. But Surveyor 2 crash landed and 54 years later, we found one of its rocket boosters orbiting the earth.

[Carter Roy]

If 2020 so wound up being artificial.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Couldn'T Oumuamua have been too?

[Carter Roy]

Okay? Well, one major difference was that Oumuamua.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Was far away and we could only.

[Carter Roy]

Track its movements back so far. In this case, a definitive answer wasn't in the cards.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Although in 2021 a new study suggested it was likely a chunk of a planet similar to our Pluto from another solar system.

[Carter Roy]

But Oumuamua has long since passed us by and we won't be seeing it again. We'll never have tangible proof one way or another. Bye bye Oumuamua. That's the thing about studying objects moving tens of thousands of miles per hour through space. A lot of the time you just have to trust your calculations, simulations and telescopes. It's not like we get to hold a mysterious space rock in our hands.

[Co-host / Narrator]

And know for sure whether it's natural or artificial. Unless it falls to Earth. If Loeb could just get his hands on one of these interstellar objects and study it in a lab, maybe he could find out once and for all if it's a rock or some kind of technology. Well, that's exactly what Loeb says he may have done.

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[Co-host / Narrator]

Okay, let's jump in our time machines.

[Carter Roy]

And head back in time again to January 8, 2014.

[Co-host / Narrator]

A fireball blazed across the sky above.

[Carter Roy]

The South Pacific somewhere near the northern coast of Papua New Guinea.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It flew by at over 60 kilometers per second.

[Carter Roy]

That's 134,000 miles per hour.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Fast enough to cause shockwaves as the.

[Carter Roy]

Asteroid entered our atmosphere.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Then it broke apart. Its fragments fell to the earth, making.

[Carter Roy]

It by definition, a meteorite. So now, hopefully we know the difference between a meteorite, an asteroid, and a comet. The event was detected by a U.S. department of Defense satellite.

[Co-host / Narrator]

After that, the meteorite was recorded in a public database produced by NASA's center.

[Carter Roy]

For Near Earth Object Studies, or CNEOS.

[Co-host / Narrator]

It was simply called CENIOS 201408, referring.

[Carter Roy]

To the date the meteorite was discovered. Not the most original naming system.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Its arrival, it didn't make global news. There was no video shared across social media.

[Carter Roy]

It's possible nobody saw it happen, or they did. But it just looked like any other shooting star. And that might have been the end.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Of this meteorite story. Until Avi Loeb and a small team found it listed in that database five.

[Carter Roy]

Years later in 2019.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Because on paper, it looked exactly like.

[Carter Roy]

What they were searching for.

[Co-host / Narrator]

An old interstellar object that our telescopes had missed. Remember, Oumuamua was just the first one we detected. That doesn't mean there weren't other interstellar objects that came before. We just didn't always have the technology to see them.

[Carter Roy]

So if you're a scientist, you could.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Wait until we find the next one. Or you could look at data from past objects, like the 2014 meteorite that had broken up over Papua New Guinea.

[Carter Roy]

What caught the team's eye was the meteorite's speed. Something going that fast could have come from outside our solar system. Loeb and his colleague wrote a paper.

[Co-host / Narrator]

On these findings and submitted it for publication. Only the astronomy journal they submitted to initially rejected it.

[Carter Roy]

More data was needed to back up these claims, they said. But there was a problem.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Some of that data recorded by the Department of Defense was technically classified.

[Carter Roy]

Now, if you're like me, you might.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Be wondering why satellite data about a meteorite would be classified. Well, according to the BBC, it's because the documents Loeb needed to prove his data were, quote, would reveal too much about the capabilities of the military equipment that found it.

[Carter Roy]

See, the satellite monitored by the U.S.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Department of Defense was built to keep an eye out for foreign missiles.

[Carter Roy]

It was a spy satellite.

[Co-host / Narrator]

In 2022, Loeb actually got confirmation for his theory from the government. In a memo to NASA, a U.S. space Force lieutenant general wrote that his chief scientist reviewed Loeb's data, the part that was classified. He found it to be accurate, and he thought there was a high probability that Loeb was right. The meteorite was interstellar. As a result, Senio's 20140108 was given the much snappier name IM1, the first interstellar meteorite, which meant it had fallen to Earth. And if Loeb could find the pieces, he and his colleagues could actually study them in the lab and maybe even prove their origin.

[Carter Roy]

Except, well, he just had to retrieve them from the bottom of the sea. Loeb had the coordinates of where IM.

[Co-host / Narrator]

One presumably broke up. He knew he wanted to look about 60 miles off the coast of Manus.

[Carter Roy]

Island, where the water is about a mile deep.

[Co-host / Narrator]

In June 2023, he got his chance. He headed up an expedition aboard a ship called Silver Star. The team took a sled outfitted with magnets, lowered it to the seafloor, and dragged it along as they sailed. In the end, it picked up 850 metallic particles, which Loeb calls Spherules. They're these tiny molten metal droplets he believes came from the meteorite.

[Carter Roy]

In a lab back at Harvard, the.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Team figured out what elements the spherules were made of.

[Carter Roy]

The vast majority had compositions you'd expect to find in our solar system, if you know about that kind of thing.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But 10% of the spherules were different. They contained high concentrations of certain elements like uranium and beryllium. These are elements we do find naturally on Earth. But Loeb said these showed concentrations 1000 times higher than we'd find in objects from our solar system, which seemed to confirm that this meteorite was wasn't from.

[Carter Roy]

Our neck of the woods.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He also suggested another theory.

[Carter Roy]

And you might know where I'm going.

[Co-host / Narrator]

With this, that IM one wasn't just a space rock. It could have an artificial origin. It could have been some kind of alien technology. Whatever IM one was, it burned up.

[Carter Roy]

In our atmosphere on its way down. Loeb likens it to a laptop melted in a fire. It's not going to look like a laptop anymore.

[Co-host / Narrator]

So he hopes to return to the site near Papua New guinea and continue searching for larger pieces. Like Loeb's other theories and claims, his conclusions about IM1 have been challenged, starting with the fact that some experts don't believe the meteorite really was interstellar.

[Carter Roy]

Let's look at its trajectory. For example. It's a big reason why Loeb suspected right away that the meteorite wasn't from our solar system. Now we can use an object's trajectory.

[Co-host / Narrator]

To trace the direction it came from. And Loeb got that data from those classified military satellites. So detractors say we don't know how.

[Carter Roy]

Reliable that data is. As one of NASA's planetary scientists told.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The BBC, if the satellite sensors were built for a totally different purpose, like spying on foreign missiles and nuclear explosions.

[Carter Roy]

They might not be the most accurate way to get data on meteorites.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Others say Loeb might have been looking for those meteorite fragments in the wrong place, and therefore, the spherules aren't even from IM1. Back when he was zeroing in on a search area, he started with the.

[Carter Roy]

Satellite data from the US Department of Defense. Then, to narrow it down even more, he looked at a seismometer on Manus Island. It measures vibrations, like when there's an earthquake.

[Co-host / Narrator]

The seismometer did record vibrations right around.

[Carter Roy]

The time the meteorite broke up.

[Co-host / Narrator]

But another scientist looked at that same.

[Carter Roy]

Seismic data and saw something different.

[Co-host / Narrator]

To him, it looked like there was.

[Carter Roy]

Just a big truck driving by. Loeb responded.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He said he Relied primarily on the.

[Carter Roy]

Satellite data, not the seismometer.

[Co-host / Narrator]

And he remains positive he was looking.

[Carter Roy]

In the right location. More questions were raised about whether the.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Spherules were from this particular meteorite.

[Carter Roy]

IM one.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Were there enough controls? Did they get samples from a nearby area to compare? Could they have come from another meteorite A long time ago.

[Carter Roy]

Okay, so the point being, Loeb has gotten considerable pushback. In addition to being introduced as a.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Harvard scientist, he's just as often called controversial.

[Carter Roy]

Some go so far as to say.

[Co-host / Narrator]

His theories are damaging to the entire field of astrobiology. But Loeb seems to take all of.

[Carter Roy]

That criticism in stride.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He hopes all of this work will inspire children to study science. And he says it's arrogant to assume we're alone in the universe or that we're special. He brings up historical figures who were vilified by those who didn't understand them, like Giordano Bruno. He was burned at the stake in 1600, in part because he believed the stars in the sky were other suns like ours, in that they also had their own planets, a fact we know today to be true.

[Carter Roy]

Then, of course, there's Galileo Galilei.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He was one of the first to use a telescope. And since he was an astronomer, he turned his lens towards space. He was the first to note that the moon was covered in craters, not smooth. He discovered four of Jupiter's moons. And he found evidence to support Copernicus theory that the Earth and other planets.

[Carter Roy]

Orbited the sun, a fact we know.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Today to be true.

[Carter Roy]

But it went against the Catholic Church at the time. They promoted the idea that everything in space revolved around us. Galileo wasn't burned at the stake, but he was placed on house arrest for the last nine years of his life.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Now he's the namesake of Loeb's Galileo project. It aims to change how the public feels about research into extraterrestrials.

[Carter Roy]

Because regardless of your views on Loeb.

[Co-host / Narrator]

There is a stigma attached to the pursuit of proof that aliens exist.

[Carter Roy]

I find it fascinating because a lot of science accepts that we don't know what's out there, and there's a very.

[Co-host / Narrator]

High likelihood of some sort of life in the universe.

[Carter Roy]

Universe.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Which means eventually we might find it.

[Carter Roy]

So maybe we should be open to looking for it. When we launched the Voyager probes back in 1977, one item on the Golden Record was a message from President Jimmy Carter.

[Co-host / Narrator]

He wrote, we are attempting to survive.

[Carter Roy]

Our time so we may live into yours. If that message is ever intercepted and.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Decoded, it might be read by a distant civilization millions of years in the future. The content of that golden record will.

[Carter Roy]

Be lasting proof that humans existed on Earth. But will the aliens believe what they've found? Thank you for watching Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on instagram @the conspiracypod, and if you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts.

[Co-host / Narrator]

For more information, check out Avi Loeb's blog on Medium, where he's covering this.

[Carter Roy]

Story practically on a daily basis. Until next time, remember, the truth isn't always the best story, and the official story isn't always the truth.

[Co-host / Narrator]

This episode was written and researched by.

[Carter Roy]

Miki Taylor, edited by Maggie Admire and.

[Co-host / Narrator]

Pete Ritchie, Fact checked by Sophie Kemp.

[Carter Roy]

And engineered video, edited and sound designed by Alex Button. I'm your host, Carter Roy.

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