The Gerry Irwin Incident

Summary

Conspiracy Theories – The Gerry Irwin Incident

Spotify Studios | Host: Carter Roy | September 17, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Conspiracy Theories dives into the mysterious 1959 case of Private Gerry Irwin, a U.S. Army soldier whose baffling experience in the Utah desert has been debated for over six decades. The story encompasses lost time, possible government mind control, UFO sightings, cosmic psychology—and a life derailed by an inexplicable event. Host Carter Roy unpacks competing theories from CIA experimentation to psychological trauma and alien abduction, drawing on firsthand accounts, expert analyses, and archival records.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Incident: Night in the Utah Desert

• Initial Event ([00:00]–[01:21]):
  • Jerry Irwin, 23, wakes in a hospital bed after being found unconscious for 24 hours.
  • He recalls seeing an aircraft crash and going to investigate, but no crash is ever found.
  • "He pulled over and set off on foot to investigate the crash...until everything went dark." – Narrator ([00:32]–[00:45])
• Discovery & Aftermath ([03:34]–[07:39]):
  • Irwin leaves a note ("have gone to investigate what looks like a plane crash..."), sets his hazards, scrawls "Stop" on his car, and disappears into the night.
  • Found unconscious by rescue party; no injuries or clear cause.
  • Notably, Jerry keeps muttering "jacket on bush" while unconscious.

2. Medical and Psychological Mysteries

• Unexplained Symptoms ([08:42]–[10:19]):
  • No physical injuries; clean bill of health but persistent amnesia.
  • Develops fainting spells, worsening memory, PTSD-like symptoms, and a stutter.
• Recurring Blackouts & Trance-Like States ([11:52]–[14:12]):
  • Compelled to return to the crash site in a trance, finds his missing jacket on a bush—a detail that amazes host Carter Roy.
    • "He walked back to where this sports jacket was. Blows my mind." – Carter Roy ([13:31])
  • Finds a note hidden in the jacket, which he burns instinctively. The act snaps him out of the trance.

3. Suspicious Military Involvement

• Institutional Response ([15:01]–[17:41]):

  • Army fines and demotes Irwin, appears punitive for what seems like psychological distress.
  • Irwin spends time in psychiatric wards, with gaps in memory about his treatment.

• Potential CIA and MKUltra Connection ([17:03]–[22:57]):

  • Context of 1950s U.S. government mind control experiments (Project MKUltra).
  • Fort Bliss, Irwin's base, linked to Operation Paperclip and influx of ex-Nazi scientists.
  • "Given Jerry's symptoms...some suspect that he was an unwitting research subject of MKUltra…That, and there are medical records of army doctors injecting him with sodium amytol." – Narrator ([20:07])
  • Under "truth serum," Irwin claims contact with a "special intelligence" that forbids him from remembering or revealing the incident, even referencing experiences from the age of three.
    • "That intelligence has apparently instructed Jerry not to remember any of the events that happened out in the desert and that if he were to share...it would harm many people." – Narrator ([21:14]–[21:22])

4. Alternative Psychological Explanations

• Carl Jung’s Perspective ([23:12]–[25:32]):
  • Renowned psychoanalyst Carl Jung attributes Irwin's experience to ambulatory automatism (dissociative fugue), possibly triggered by an inability to face returning to duty.
    • "A soldier who didn't want to return to his duties..." – Carter Roy ([25:10])
  • Jung dismisses military conspiracy but entertains UFOs as symbols of social anxiety.

5. UFO Theory & Early Abduction Narrative

• APRO Investigation and Early UFO Research ([26:39]–[27:44]):
  • Fortean researchers Jim and Coral Lorenzen document Irwin’s story, considering him a possible first alien abduction case.
    • "There is a strong possibility that Irwin saw a uao, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena by accident, attempted to approach it, and was incapacitated by some means not yet known to men." – Coral Lorenzen, APRO ([27:44])
• Comparison with Famous Abduction Cases ([31:14]–[33:03]):
  • The Irwin incident predates the Betty and Barney Hill abduction story, often seen as the origin of the abduction genre.

6. Struggles for Answers and the System’s Barriers

• Hypnotherapy Blocked ([35:08]–[36:47]):
  • The Lorenzens support Irwin and seek hypnotherapy for him, but the military blocks civilian intervention, threatening repercussions.
  • "His commanding officer even promises to make it plenty rough on him if he tries to go to another appointment. Why are they so against him seeking outside treatment?" – Carter Roy ([35:51])
• Irwin’s Disappearance ([37:03]–[38:06]):
  • Listed as a deserter, Irwin vanishes for decades, becoming a “mythic” figure in UFO circles.

7. Resolution and Legacy

• Rediscovery & Later Life ([38:14]–[41:38]):
  • In the 2010s, author David Booer tracks Irwin to Idaho. He lived quietly, worked various jobs, married, and raised a family, having never solved his own mystery or regained his health.
  • "All these years later, Jerry never found any answers to what happened to him that night...Even during the twilight of his life, he is still no closer to finding answers. If anything, he seems to want to forget what happened to him." – Carter Roy ([41:44]–[41:55])
• Final Reflections ([41:52]–[42:57]):
  • Irwin died in 2018 at age 82, case still unsolved—his story a cautionary tale about the trauma of the unexplained and the dangers of institutional secrecy.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Jacket on bush, jacket on bush." – Repeated by Jerry while unconscious; phrase becomes crucial to subsequent events ([09:02])
• "He walked back to where this sports jacket was. Blows my mind." – Carter Roy marveling over Irwin's trance-driven return ([13:31])
• "That intelligence has apparently instructed Jerry not to remember any of the events that happened out in the desert and that if he were to share what happened, it would harm many people." – Narrator, recapping Irwin's claims under truth serum ([21:14])
• "There is a strong possibility that Irwin saw a uao...attempted to approach it, and was incapacitated by some means not yet known to men." – Coral Lorenzen, UFO researcher ([27:44])
• "His commanding officer even promises to make it plenty rough on him if he tries to go to another appointment. Why are they so against him seeking outside treatment?" – Carter Roy, questioning military motives ([35:51])
• "All these years later, Jerry never found any answers to what happened to him that night." – Carter Roy, closing summary ([41:44])

---

Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Jerry’s hospital awakening & initial story | 00:00–01:21 | | The desert incident & rescue | 03:34–07:39 | | Unexplained amnesia and medical examinations | 08:42–10:19 | | Trance-driven return; jacket & note incident | 12:09–14:12 | | Discussion of MKUltra & mind control context | 17:03–22:57 | | Carl Jung’s theory of fugue state | 23:12–25:32 | | UFO/abduction theory and early research | 26:39–27:44 | | Military blocks hypnotherapy, Irwin vanishes | 35:08–37:03 | | Rediscovery of Irwin in later life | 38:14–41:38 | | Closing reflections and legacy | 41:52–42:57 |

---

Summary

The Gerry Irwin Incident stands at the crossroads of America's military-industrial intrigue, mid-century UFO paranoia, and the mysteries of the human mind. Conspiracy Theories reconstructs Irwin’s journey from obedient soldier to haunted exile, weaving together the era’s shadowy reality of mind control projects, psychiatric ambiguity, and extraterrestrial speculation.

The episode underscores the difficulty of finding truth within institutional and psychological fog, and ends on a poignant note: after decades, Irwin’s story remains unsolved, its impact lingering in both official records and the annals of UFO history.

---

Final Thought:
"Remember, the truth isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth." – Carter Roy ([43:03])

Transcript

[Narrator]

23 year old private Jerry Irwin wakes.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Up in a hospital bed in Cedar city, Utah.

[Narrator]

It's February 21, 1959 and he's been unconscious for 24 hours straight.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

When Jerry does finally wake, immediately he.

[Narrator]

Cries out, were there any survivors? See, the last thing he remembers is driving through the desert at night and.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Seeing an aircraft of some sort plummet out of the sky.

[Narrator]

He pulled over and set off on.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Foot to investigate the crash. After ascending a large hill, the light.

[Narrator]

From the crash became brighter and brighter.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Until everything went dark.

[Narrator]

From his hospital bed, that's what he.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Tells the local sheriff, but the sheriff.

[Narrator]

Says that's impossible because there was no plane crash, the area was thoroughly searched and there was no such wreckage to be found.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

No one knows what exactly put Jerry in the hospital over 65 years ago. Was it an alien abduction, a psychotic break, or a CIA mind control experiment?

[Narrator]

Only Jerry's distorted memory can help piece together the clues to what really happened that night.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify Podcast. I'm Carter Roy.

[Narrator]

New episodes come out every Wednesday. You can watch our episodes and more on our new YouTube channel on conspiracy.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Theories Podcast and check us out on Instagram he conspiracypod and we would love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. This episode contains discussions of drugs. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. Stay with us.

[Carvana Advertiser]

This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Got a car to sell, but no time to waste? Hop onto Carvana.com to get a real offer for your car in seconds. All you have to do is enter your license plate, answer a few quick questions, and if you accept the offer, Carvana will pay you as soon as you hand the keys over. They even offer same day pickup in many cities. Save your time, score some cash and sell your car the convenient way to Carvana pick up. Times vary, fees may apply. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Buying a car shouldn't eat up your week. That's why Carvana made it convenient. Car buying that fits around your life, not the other way around. You can get pre qualified for an auto loan in just a couple of minutes and browse thousands of quality car options. All within your terms, all online, all on your schedule. Turn car buying into a few clicks and not a full week's endeavor Finance and buy your car at your convenience on Carvana Financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Miu Miu Advertiser]

Routine adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding unconstrained one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen the New Fragrance by Miu.

[Narrator]

Miu Defined by you an old sedan makes its way across a moonlit strip.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Of highway cutting right through the frigid desert of southern Utah.

[Narrator]

The driver, Jerry Irwin and is a.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Missile technician for the US Army. He's heading back to his barracks in El Paso, Texas after spending some time off at his family home in Nampa, Idaho. It's nearly a 19 hour drive back to Fort Bliss, so Jerry's taking a shortcut.

[Narrator]

As he cruises along the desolate two lane road, suddenly the landscape lights up all around him.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

It's like a brilliant flash of lightning, but with no booming, thunderous aftermath.

[Narrator]

Jerry looks up and sees what he thinks is an aircraft of some sort hurtling through the sky and about to.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Crash beyond the mountains. He pulls over to the side of the road so he can take a better look. But when he gets out of the.

[Narrator]

Car, what he sees overhead is a.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Bit of an anomaly.

[Narrator]

It's an indeterminate shape, not obviously that of a plane and moving at a strangely slow speed.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

It's losing altitude fast, glowing white and trailing fire. Even weirder, it's completely silent. Just then, the illuminated object disappears behind the ridge. Is it a meteorite? An airplane that had burst into flames? Or did he really see anything at all?

[Narrator]

If it is indeed a plane crash, there might be survivors. He might be able to help. So Jerry, a dutiful soldier, reflexively takes action.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The series of events that happen next are extensively documented. There is plenty of physical evidence, police testimony and witnesses of the aftermath.

[Narrator]

But Jerry himself doesn't seem to recall.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Much of what happens after rushing toward the aircraft. Apparently before running off into the desert.

[Narrator]

He puts on his thick army coat over the brand new sports jacket he's wearing.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Due to the snow and low temps in the desert at night, he leaves.

[Narrator]

A note on the steering wheel that reads have gone to investigate what looks like a plane crash about 1/4 mile to my right. Notify state police immediately.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Turning on his car's hazard lights, Jerry.

[Narrator]

Uses shoe polish to write Stop across the side of his car. Then he takes off toward what he.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Thinks will be the site of a disaster. Shortly after, a fish and game warden named Saunders Clark drives down the same dark road and comes across Jerry's vehicle. Concerned by the message scrawled across the sedan. He pulls over and discovers Jerry's note. Luckily, he has a two way radio and immediately calls the sheriff.

[Narrator]

Sheriff Fife tells Clark that a plane has in fact been reported missing by the Civil Aviation Authority.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

So he dispatches deputies and an ambulance to the scene, expecting the worse. As the warden waits there in the.

[Narrator]

Dark for help to arrive, he flags.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Down some drivers passing by. A truck driver and another car with four men inside to stop and help. They begin searching the area, following Jerry's footprints in the snow. They find him about a quarter mile from his vehicle, just where he said.

[Narrator]

The plane would be. He's face down, unconscious.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The men make a fire to keep him warm until help finally arrives.

[Narrator]

If Jerry had been left in the.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Cold much longer, it's possible he wouldn't have survived.

[Narrator]

When he's brought to the hospital, the doctors say they can't make sense of.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

What happened to him.

[Narrator]

He has no signs of physical injuries. And while Jerry remains unconscious for a full day, the police conduct both an.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Aerial and ground search for the crash. A plane, after all, had been reported missing.

[Narrator]

But after hours of scouring the area, no such evidence of a crash is discovered.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The missing plane, in fact, is later found after having returned to its facility in Arizona. No other aviation facilities in the area have reported planes missing over Utah. And there doesn't seem to be any other witnesses who saw whatever it is that Jerry did.

[Narrator]

Although Jerry's amnesia is concerning, the doctor is adamant that physically he has a clean bill of health. But there's something odd going on with him.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

According to nurses, while he was unconscious.

[Narrator]

He'D been repeatedly muttering a strange phrase.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Jacket on bush, jacket on bush. When they tell him this after he wakes up, it sparks something in his memory.

[Narrator]

Apparently, Jerry had been discovered wearing his thick army coat. But the new sports jacket he'd worn underneath was missing. It wasn't on his person and wasn't.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Discovered at the scene. Despite being physically healthy, the hospital keeps Jerry for several days of observation just to be safe, then sends him back to Fort Bliss. When he arrives, however, he's checked into the psychiatric ward at the William Beaumont Army Hospital.

[Narrator]

But after days of testing, they say the same thing. Aside from the inexplicable amnesia, he seems to be fine. So he's released and returns to work as usual.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

But something is off. Over the next several weeks, Jerry has a series of fainting spells, which, according to his medical records, he's never experienced before. His memory appears to get worse.

[Narrator]

He displays PTSD like symptoms. He even develops a stutter. On March 15, 1959. While walking in downtown El Paso, Jerry suddenly passes out on the street.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

He's found and brought to El Paso General Hospital. The next day, they transfer him back.

[Narrator]

To the army hospital.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

According to his attending physician, Dr. Valentine.

[Narrator]

When Jerry finally wakes up and is.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Asked what day it is, he says it's February 20, the day of the original incident.

[Narrator]

He also apparently doesn't recognize Dr. Valentine, or any of the medical staff for that matter, despite having been in their care less than a month ago.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

In fact, he claims he's never even.

[Narrator]

Been to this hospital before.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

But they still can't determine what's going on with him. The doctor's notes say that he believes Jerry doesn't have amnesia at all, implying he might even be making it up to avoid consequences for some sort of wrongdoing or the desire to go awol.

[Narrator]

Though they can't find any evidence of that either. They end up keeping Jerry in the hospital for for observation for 32 days. When he's finally released, apparently he's in.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Good mental and physical health. But it only takes one day before things take a turn. The next morning, Jerry finds himself in a trance like state unlike anything he's ever experienced before.

[Narrator]

He later says that he felt totally compelled to abandon his post and return to the scene of the accident.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

He can't seem to fight the urge.

[Narrator]

So without asking for permission, he leaves the army base and gets on an overnight bus to Utah.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Later, Jerry reflects on the compulsion he.

[Narrator]

Felt, saying, it all seems more like a dream than an actual memory. I just seemed to know that I was going back.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

I didn't know why, and I didn't question it. Arriving at the Cedar City bus station.

[Narrator]

The next afternoon, he walks along the.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Highway for six miles to the spot.

[Narrator]

Where he remembers pulling over. Without hesitation, he retraces his steps back out into the desert. This time in broad daylight. Whatever spell he's under seems to lead him right to his missing sports jacket. There it is, draped over a bush now weathered from the elements.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Of all the parts of the story, this is the one that blows my mind the most. I couldn't believe it when my team found this detail.

[Narrator]

I mean, how much more real does it get than that this is something that actually happened? He walked back to where this sports jacket was.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Blows my mind.

[Narrator]

But this is where Jerry says things get even weirder. Inside one of the buttonholes, there's a pencil with a note wrapped around it. Without reading the note, he instinctively lights it on fire.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Later, he says that he somehow knew.

[Narrator]

He himself had written the note, but he has no recollection of what kind.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Of message he'd left for himself. As the piece of paper catches fire.

[Narrator]

The smell of the smoke breaks him.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

From the trance like state. Suddenly awakening to where he is and how far away from base he is.

[Narrator]

Without having told anyone he was leaving.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Jerry realizes he almost certainly has been classified as a deserter. So he decides to turn himself into the police.

[Narrator]

As he walks the six miles back.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Into town, while the sun sets and the familiar desert cold sets in, Jerry is plagued with questions like what caused this trance like state?

[Narrator]

How did he know exactly where to find his sports jacket, what was written.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

On the note and why did he light it on fire? Jerry eventually turns himself into Sheriff Fife.

[Narrator]

Who like the medical staff, he no longer remembers and is sent back into.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Custody of the military. They punish him with a fine and lower his rank. Now the whole thing is puzzling to Jerry.

[Narrator]

He didn't choose to abandon his post. Why is he being punished so harshly when he clearly has some sort of serious affliction?

[Host (Carter Roy)]

That's when he starts to become suspicious.

[Narrator]

Why is it that this strange behavior.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Of his, the fainting spells, the stutter, the out of body experience that led.

[Narrator]

Him back to the desert all started happening after spending a month in the military psych ward?

[Host (Carter Roy)]

There are so many gaps in his.

[Narrator]

Memory he can barely recall what happened while under their care. Exactly what kind of tests were they doing on him.

[Miu Miu Advertiser]

Mutine adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Teen the new fragrance by Miu Miu Defined by you this episode is.

[eBay Advertiser]

Brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece. The one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find on ebay that Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top. Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guaranteed. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion. Ebay things people love.

[Narrator]

The 1950s were the peak era of.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

US government experimentation with mind control. The general public just had no idea at the time. It isn't until 1975 that the world hears about the CIA's Project MKUltra, an experimental project that tests human subjects, both willing and unwilling to develop methods of brainwashing and psychological torture. It's a continuation of work done by the Nazis during World War II, largely.

[Narrator]

In search of developing a truth serum.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

To use on spies. So after the Germans were defeated, there was a bit of an arms race between the us, the UK and the.

[Narrator]

Soviet Union to recruit as many Nazi scientists as possible.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

At the time, the Third Reich employed some of the best scientists in the world, across aerospace technology, military intelligence, rocketry and medicine.

[Narrator]

Through a project called operation paperclip, the US essentially smuggles over 1500 Nazi scientists and engineers into the country to work for the military. By 1946, Fort Bliss becomes a bit of a Nazi hub, welcoming over a hundred scientists. Now, while they primarily work on rocketry in El Paso, across the country, Operation Paperclip funnels ex Nazis into the MKULTRA.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Program to develop the military's mind control efforts.

[Narrator]

So it's not out of the question that their work could extend to Fort Bliss.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

But as most of the program's documents.

[Narrator]

Were ordered to be destroyed in 1973, there's no concrete evidence. The CIA later testifies that over 85 institutions and universities are involved in the.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Project, testing drugs like lsd, electroshock therapy.

[Narrator]

And hypnotism on citizens from all walks of life. But it's unknown how many people are.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Tested on without their knowledge or consent. We do know that MK Ultra scientists favor experimenting on three types of people.

[Narrator]

In mental institution patients, prisoners and soldiers.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

In fact, MK Ultra is run in partnership with the US Army Chemical Corps, aka Jerry's Employer. Over 1,000 soldiers willingly volunteer for chemical experimentation. But exactly how many were tested unknowingly?

[Narrator]

Given Jerry's symptoms, including memory loss, fainting and developing a stutter, some suspect that he was an unwitting research subject of MKUltra. After all, Jerry was institutionalized at the height of their research. That, and there are medical records of army doctors injecting him with sodium amytol.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Also known as a type of of truth serum. 11 days into his 32 day confinement in the psychiatric ward, Dr. Valentine interviews.

[Narrator]

Him while he is under the influence of the substance.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

And what Jerry has to say is unsettling, to say the least. In his intoxicated state, Jerry tells the doctor that all of this has to do with a special intelligence that he can't explain, as it would be totally incomprehensible to him. That intelligence has apparently instructed Juri not.

[Narrator]

To remember any of the events that.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Happened out in the desert and that.

[Narrator]

If he were to share what happened.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

It would harm many people.

[Narrator]

He also says that it all started at the age of three years old.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Though doesn't clarify exactly what it is.

[Narrator]

Jerry also adds that at any point he can invoke a special force and.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Leave the hospital whenever he wants. When the drugs wear off, Jerry claims he can't remember anything that he said during the interview.

[Narrator]

Sodium Anatol is just one known drug.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Used in what MK Ultra calls depatterning. It's when a subject is given a cocktail of drugs like lsd, PCP and.

[Narrator]

Barbiturates, among other things, then subjected to an abnormally high voltage electroconvulsive therapy. Then they spend weeks in a sensory deprivation chamber, followed by months of drug induced sleep. The goal is for the subject to.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Become something of a blank slate for them to manipulate. There is no clear cut documentation showing that Jerry is a victim to this extreme kind of testing. But there is no denying the timeline.

[Narrator]

Of MK Ultra activity overlaps with Jerry's various hospitalizations and that they tried to get some sort of confession out of.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Him that by using truth serum.

[Narrator]

But are his answers really the truth? Or was his time spent in the psychiatric ward actually the result of a mental condition?

[Host (Carter Roy)]

In 1959, pioneering psychoanalyst Carl Jung becomes fascinated with Jerry's case. Known for developing concepts like introversion and extroversion and the collective unconscious, Jung has an expansive approach to studying the human mind and spirit. After hearing about Jerry's case, he hypothesizes that the soldier has a condition called ambulatory automatism in which a person unconsciously plans to escape a situation they cannot otherwise face. And then they carry out that plan in a sort of fugue state. Jung cites a similar case he encountered at a psychiatric clinic he worked at 60 years earlier, although he himself didn't consult on it. But there was a male patient from.

[Narrator]

Zurich who lived in Australia for many years.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

One day he unexpectedly developed dengue fever and just disappeared. No one had any clue where he went.

[Narrator]

The man then suddenly came to his senses while in a Zurich cafe and reading a newspaper article about a man.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Who had gone missing in Australia.

[Narrator]

Realizing that it was him who had.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Mysteriously vanished, he immediately checked himself into the psychiatric facility where Young worked. They tried hypnosis on him and he revealed the truth that he'd just up and abruptly left behind his life in.

[Narrator]

Australia because he couldn't bring himself to.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Consciously accept how homesick he was. Once he was hit with a fever.

[Narrator]

Jung claims the Man's conscious will was.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Weakened and his unconscious desires took over. That's exactly what he thinks happened to Jerry.

[Narrator]

Although Jung never personally observes Jerry, he believes that this is a case about.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

A soldier who didn't want to return to his duties. Jung even mentions that other conditions often accompany ambulatory automatism, like hysteria, which Jerry was actually diagnosed with at the hospital in Cedar City.

[Narrator]

In Jung's opinion, it's very unlikely the.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Military had any involvement in what happened to Jerry. He is still, however, fascinated by the growing theory that what Jerry had encountered.

[Narrator]

That night was an alien spaceship and that he might have been abducted.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The psychiatrist has an unusual fascination with UFOs.

[Narrator]

One of his lesser known books is called Flying Saucers A Modern Myth of.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Things Seen in the Sky. But his interest is not so much in UFOs themselves.

[Narrator]

He is more interested in what the uptick in UFO sightings in the 1950s says about society as a whole. He draws a connection between the acute social anxieties of the Cold War and the desire to share a visual experience.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Like a UFO sighting. Jung is a reader of a small publication called the Apro Bulletin, the newsletter.

[Narrator]

From the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Founded by husband and wife team Jim and Coral Lorenzen in 1952. The organization is run by a small group of scientists and researchers who are doing some of the earliest scientific field investigations of UFOs.

[Narrator]

In their newsletter, they published an interview.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

With Jerry shortly after the incident happened, so it's likely one of his sharpest, most detailed retellings of the incident.

[Narrator]

And once again, he described trekking off.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Into the darkness to search for the supposed crash and not remembering much after that. But there were some small but illuminating details throughout their conversation, like Jerry saying he felt as though his memory had been wiped clean. Or that regardless of what he saw in the sky, it was unusual looking enough that he felt compelled to go investigate. Corll, who is one of the most well respected UFO researchers of that era.

[Narrator]

Interprets the incident like this.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

She writes, there is a strong possibility that Irwin saw a uao, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena by accident, attempted to approach.

[Narrator]

It, and was incapacitated by some means.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Not yet known to men. Plus, whatever Jerry saw seemed to have all the typical characteristics of a ufo. The unidentifiable shape, the strangely slow speed.

[Narrator]

The blindingly bright light. She's heard countless testimonies just like this over the years.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

So after Jung reads her story, he.

[Narrator]

Develops a correspondence with Corlli, who writes.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

For and edits the publication. He's fascinated by her analysis But Young is confident that whatever happened to Jerry was a matter of psychology and not the extraterrestrial. He signs off one of his letters by giving Corll two pieces of advice.

[Narrator]

First, tell Jerry that hypnosis will be.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The most effective treatment.

[Narrator]

And second, to then stay as far.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Away from Jerry as possible, as the likelihood of him being a psychopath is high. But Corll doesn't take his advice. Well, not all of it. Both Corll and Jim do stay in touch with Jerry.

[Narrator]

They even become somewhat of a support system for him.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

They really seem to listen to what he has to say, so he feels.

[Narrator]

Comfortable enough to confide in them about.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

How he feels mistreated and dismissed by the military. Now, at this point, Jerry is exhausted.

[Narrator]

He's still having PTSD like symptoms and.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Has been in and out of hospitals since the incident happened.

[Narrator]

Yet no one seems to have any explanations.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Eager to help figure out what's going.

[Narrator]

On, the Lorenzens offer to pay for the hypnotherapy that Jung suggested.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

They think it might help him recover some of his lost memories. Memories of being abducted, which would be a major breakthrough for the Lorenzens and their team of scientists, especially since the.

[Narrator]

Term alien abduction doesn't even exist yet.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Now, around the 1950s, UFO sightings are somewhat commonplace and Texas is considered a hotbed.

[Narrator]

Fort Bliss, Jerry's base fielded plenty of UFO sightings from soldiers themselves at the time.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

One Such report from two soldiers describes a clear morning in March 1950. They're driving along in an open top.

[Narrator]

Jeep when they spot what first appears to be a star.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

An odd sight at 6:45am though not totally impossible.

[Narrator]

But then they realize it's moving at a strangely slow pace.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The aircraft is silver and has an.

[Narrator]

Indiscernible shape to it.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

After about a minute, it fades out of sight. And there are numerous reports like this in the decade leading up to Jerry's incident.

[Narrator]

But the first reported alien abduction that catapulted the entire concept into the public eye doesn't even happen until 1961, nearly three years after Jerry's incident takes place. Betty and Barney Hill are often referred.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

To as the Adam and Eve of alien abduction stories. Driving home late at night from a.

[Narrator]

Belated honeymoon in Montreal, the couple travels windy back roads in Vermont on their.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Way back to Portsmouth, New Hampshire. As they drive, they notice a brilliant.

[Narrator]

Burst of light trailing across the sky. At first they think it might be a shooting star. But Barney is a World War II.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Vet and something is off about this thing. Considering its Pace, he decides it must be a helicopter or a satellite. That is, until the light seems to.

[Narrator]

Follow them for miles. The light appears to play cat and mouse with them, following wherever they go now hovering just over 100ft overhead. When they pull over to get a closer look, they claim to see what we now know as a flying saucer. Two hours later, Betty and Barney come to consciousness in their car 35 miles down the road.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

No memory of what happened. While their story certainly drew plenty of media attention at the time and has even been adapted into a best selling.

[Narrator]

Book and movie, some people in the UFO community consider Jerry to be the.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

First real alien abduction case. Now that UFOs are very much woven into American pop culture, what happened to Jerry almost sounds like a classic case of abduction. Spotting an unidentifiable object in the sky.

[Narrator]

Followed by memory loss in a trance like state. But at the time of the incident, the Lorenzens are really going out on.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

A limb with their theory that Jerry had been taken by aliens.

[Narrator]

Even though he himself isn't totally convinced.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

That'S what happened to him, they suspect he might be repressing something big.

[Paleo Valley Advertiser]

You're deep into your favorite true crime binge, the twist, the theories, and suddenly hunger hits. Grab a Paleo Valley 100% grass fed beef stick. These aren't your average gas station snacks. They're made from real beef, sourced from regenerative small American family farms. No preservatives, no gluten, no grains, soy or sugar. Just naturally fermented protein that fuels your obsession. Whether you're road tripping, hiking or pulling an all nighter with your favorite case, choose from five bold original jalapeno summer sausage, garlic summer sausage and teriyaki. They're keto, paleo and carnivore friendly, made to work with your lifestyle, not against it. With over 55 million sticks sold and a 60 day money back guarantee, you've got nothing to lose. Get 15% on your first [e-mail]. just use code Paleo at checkout.

[eBay Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Diet Coke. You know that moment when you just need to hit pause and refresh? An ice cold Diet Coke isn't just a break. It's your chance to catch your breath and savor a moment that's all about you. Always refreshing, still the same great taste Diet Coke make time for you time.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Just as they'd promised, Coral and Jim Lorenzen go with Jerry to meet a hypnotherapist in El Paso.

[Narrator]

It's unclear what exactly transpires during the session. But Jerry never has an opportunity to go back. When the military hears that he saw a civilian therapist, one outside of the army psych ward, they do everything in their power to block him from returning. His commanding officer even promises to make it plenty rough on him if he tries to go to another appointment. Why are they so against him seeking outside treatment?

[Host (Carter Roy)]

What is it they're trying to hide? Interestingly, at the time of Jerry's incident, there's a law banning military personnel from.

[Narrator]

Publicly reporting UFO sightings. So even if he felt confident that.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

He'D seen a UFO that night, the.

[Narrator]

Military would almost certainly punish him for.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Sharing that information with outsiders. Were they worried he was going to say the wrong thing to a hypnotist? Jerry eventually sneaks off to the Lorenzens house in Alamogordo, New Mexico, on May 30. He's there to tell them that the military is readmitting him to the psychiatric ward in July. He has no choice. He promises to try and stay in touch and that he'd like to try hypnotherapy again once he gets out.

[Narrator]

But according to Jim, they never see.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Or hear from Jerry again. What we do know is that weeks.

[Narrator]

Later, on July 5, Jerry has another.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Episode where he approaches police in El Paso, confused about who and where he is.

[Narrator]

He even reportedly purchases a newspaper to try and figure out what city he's in. Then, just as he'd told the Lorenzens, as though predicting the future, he is checked back into the army hospital psych.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Ward, and they release him shortly after.

[Narrator]

But within weeks, Jerry once again fails to report for duty.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

The army apparently lists him as a.

[Narrator]

Deserter, and he disappears for nearly half a century.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

For decades, no one seems to know what happened to Jerry. He becomes somewhat of a household name in the UFO community. He's often featured in articles and small publications, most of them wondering where he went.

[Narrator]

Jim Lorenzen even publishes an open letter to Jerry Irwin in 1962, asking him to please respond, as he and Corll are still deeply concerned about what happened to him.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

But they never hear back. Jerry does, however, resurface in the 2010s.

[Narrator]

When author David Booer hunts him down for a book he's working on called no Return. The Jerry Irwin Story. UFO abduction or Covert Operation?

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Bohr comes across Jerry's story in a 1988 book by the French UFO researcher.

[Narrator]

Jacques Vallee, which includes one of the very few in depth looks at Jerry's story.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

It ends on a very mysterious note.

[Narrator]

Saying that Jerry was never heard from again. But Booer wonders if anyone has really tried to find Jerry. Because, surprisingly, he's not all that difficult to find.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Booer asks his local librarians for some help tracking Jerry down, and it turns out he's living in his home state of Idaho. In fact, when Booer calls Jerry, Jerry.

[Narrator]

Is shocked to hear that so many people believe that he vanished over 50 years ago.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Although, by the Army's standards, he did disappear. After his last stint in the army psychiatric ward, Jerry says he went AWOL for 81 days. According to his now somewhat shaky memory, he was frustrated and traumatized by everything that had happened to him.

[Narrator]

It appeared he had almost no one.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

There to help but him navigate this strange experience. And even the help he was getting from Corll and Jim appeared to be actively blocked by the Army. The military doctors were not helping his.

[Narrator]

Case, and the fainting spells just wouldn't seem to stop.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Jerry just wanted to get away from it all.

[Narrator]

So he went back to northern Idaho.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

And lived alone in the mountains and started working in a mine, trying to come to terms with what had happened to him. And for the two and a half months he was out there on his own, he didn't experience another fainting spell. But the military went looking for him. And somehow they eventually found him out there in the wilderness. They arrested him, and he was sentenced to a year of hard labor for abandoning his post. Although Jerry says he hardly remembers anything of his time being imprisoned. After he served his time, Jerry was.

[Narrator]

Shipped off to Germany and later Austria to work on a covert mission of some sort.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Which seems strange to me, considering he'd been stripped of his rank after going awol.

[Narrator]

He spent several years living in Europe.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

And was officially discharged from the army in 1990.

[Narrator]

Jerry then returned to civilian life the best he could. He got married twice, had four children, and spent many years working for Kodak in San Francisco.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

He and his wife Arlene explored the country in their RV throughout much of the 1990s. They eventually settled in Jerry's home state of Idaho and lived a relatively quiet life. He loved home improvement projects and caring for his cats, dogs, and the neighborhood squirrels. Arlene passed away in the 2010s, and he lived a relatively solitary life after that.

[Narrator]

So he's surprised when Boer takes an interest in his story.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

All these years later, Jerry never found any answers to what happened to him that night. Utah, was it?

[Narrator]

An alien abduction?

[Host (Carter Roy)]

A government psyop? A psychological break? Even during the twilight of his life, he is still no closer to finding answers. If anything he seems to want to forget what happened to him. And in 2018, Jerry dies at the age of 82. While his life was publicly defined by this extraordinary, inexplicable event, he lived out the rest of his life relatively quietly. And perhaps that was on purpose. Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Theories. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram he conspiracypod. If you're watching on Spotify, swipe up and give us your thoughts for more information on the Jerry Irwin incident. Amongst the many sources we used, we found no return.

[Narrator]

The Jerry Irwin Story UFO abduction or covert operation by David Booer.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Extremely helpful to our research. Until next time. Remember, the truth isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth.

[Narrator]

This episode was written and researched by Sarah Tardiff, edited by Chelsea Wood Fact checked by Sophie Kemp, engineered by Sam.

[Host (Carter Roy)]

Amezquah and video edited in sound design by Ryan Contra. I'm your host, Carter Roy.

[Expedia Advertiser]

Olivia loves a challenge. It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes. But for booking her trip to Paris, Olivia chose the easy way with Expedia, she bundled her flight with a hotel to save more. Of course, she still climbed all 674 steps to the the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route. We were made to easily package your trip. Expedia Made to travel flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.