The Lost City of Atlantis... Found?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Lost City of Atlantis... Found?"

Podcast Title: Conspiracy Theories
Host/Author: Spotify Studios
Episode Title: The Lost City of Atlantis... Found?
Release Date: November 13, 2024

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Introduction to the Yonaguni Monument

In the episode titled "The Lost City of Atlantis... Found?", Spotify Studios' Conspiracy Theories delves into one of the most enigmatic underwater structures—the Yonaguni Monument. The hosts, Carter Roy and his co-host, explore whether this submerged formation is the remnants of a lost civilization or a marvel of natural geological processes.

Carter Roy [00:05]: "Ancient humans from all over the planet passed down a similar myth. They all tell the story of a lost civilization with advanced abilities."

This introduction sets the stage by linking the Yonaguni Monument to widespread ancient myths, including the legendary Atlantis.

---

Discovery of the Yonaguni Monument

Initial Encounter

The narrative begins in 1987 when Kihachiro Aratake, a local scuba diving master from Yonaguni Island, discovers the underwater formation.

Carter Roy [03:37]: "As he glides near the ocean floor, about 80 feet below the surface, Aratake pauses. He can't believe what he's seeing in the underwater gloom. He sees a massive stone staircase."

Aratake's unexpected emotional reaction underscores the monument's awe-inspiring presence.

Description of the Monument

The Yonaguni Monument spans over 500 feet long and stands approximately 65 feet wide. Its prominent features include pyramid-like structures, symmetrical grooves, narrow channels, and twin towers separated by mere inches.

Carter Roy [05:25]: "Divers say it feels like traveling back in time or entering a mythical kingdom."

These architectural elements spark debates about the monument's origins and purpose.

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Debate: Man-Made vs. Natural Formation

Proponents of a Man-Made Structure

Masaki Kimura, a marine geologist from Ryukyu University, champions the theory that the Yonaguni Monument is a product of ancient human engineering.

Ko-host 1 [12:13]: "Marine geologist Masaki Kimura believes the incredible stone structure near Yonaguni is man-made."

Kimura points to the monument's symmetrical design, purposeful stone carving, and similarities to other ancient pyramids as evidence of human intervention.

Carter Roy [12:35]: "There are channels or what look like roads running along the bottom... suggesting intentional pathways."

Kimura further theorizes that the monument may be linked to the mythical Lost Continent of Mu, proposing that it served both practical and spiritual functions for a sophisticated seafaring civilization.

Carter Roy [17:16]: "Komura thinks the Yonaguni Monument used to sit on an entire lost continent that used to occupy the middle of the Pacific."

Skeptics: Robert Schoch's Natural Formation Theory

Contrasting Kimura's stance, Robert Schoch, a Boston-based geologist known for his work on the Egyptian Great Sphinx, argues that the Yonaguni Monument is a natural geological formation shaped by erosion and tectonic activity.

Carter Roy [26:08]: "Schoch finds the dramatic narrow entrance to the monument remarkable, but he views it as a natural stone passage created by regular geological processes."

Schoch emphasizes the monument's sedimentary rock composition and the region's seismic activity as key factors contributing to its current appearance.

Carter Roy [28:06]: "Japan is well known for their earthquakes, and seismic activity could also be responsible for big dramatic breaks along seams in the rock."

He likens the formation to other natural structures like the Grand Canyon, dismissing claims of human artistry.

Carter Roy [30:22]: "In Schoch's mind, this is a natural stone passage created by normal splintering in the rocks."

Diverging Conclusions

While Kimura sees increasing evidence of human craftsmanship with each dive, Schoch remains steadfast in his belief that natural forces are solely responsible for the monument's features. This academic discourse highlights the ongoing tension between archaeological hypotheses and geological explanations.

Co-host 1 [09:55]: "But they surface with two very different answers. Kimura believes it's man-made, while Schoch attributes it to natural erosion."

---

The Lost Continent of Mu Connection

Kimura extends his theory by connecting the Yonaguni Monument to the legendary Lost Continent of Mu, first introduced to the Western world by Scottish writer James Churchward in the mid-19th century.

Carter Roy [17:37]: "He learned about Mu from monks in India who claimed the story was inscribed on ancient tablets they guarded in their monastery."

According to Churchward, Mu was an expansive landmass connecting Hawaii to Easter Island and Micronesia, housing a population of over 60 million people before succumbing to a catastrophic flood.

Kimura posits that the monument's astronomical alignments and practical navigational features support the idea of Mu's advanced seafaring civilization.

Carter Roy [18:33]: "One is the location. Around 10,000 years ago, Yonaguni island would have been located on the Tropic of Cancer, which would have made it astronomically significant."

This theory suggests that the monument served both as a navigational aid and a spiritual symbol connecting the people to the stars.

---

Implications for Human History

Rewriting Ancient Civilizations' Origins

If Kimura's hypothesis holds, the Yonaguni Monument could signify the birthplace of advanced human civilization, predating known societies like those in Mesopotamia and Egypt. This would imply a global dissemination of architectural and mathematical knowledge stemming from Mu.

Carter Roy [22:12]: "The theory goes that the New World on the American continent developed the same ideas in isolation thousands of years later."

Such a revelation would challenge the established academic narratives that primarily focus on the Old World's contributions to early civilization.

Architectural Anomalies Across the Globe

The episode draws parallels between the Yonaguni Monument and other ancient pyramidal structures worldwide, questioning why such designs appear independently in disparate cultures without apparent contact.

Co-host 1 [21:39]: "To explain, let's talk a little more about pyramids. Ancient humans built pyramids all over the world, from Africa to Central America."

Kimura suggests that the Yonaguni Monument could be the progenitor of pyramid architecture, with knowledge spreading globally following Mu's disappearance.

---

Challenges and Counterarguments

Lack of Supporting Evidence for Mu

Skeptics like Schoch highlight the absence of archaeological evidence supporting the existence of Mu, such as records, artifacts, or human remains beyond the Yonaguni Monument itself.

Carter Roy [16:17]: "If they were capable of that, why did they live in holes? Plus, there isn't any evidence of similar stonework from the same period anywhere else in the area."

Geological Processes Explained

Schoch and other geologists provide comprehensive explanations of how natural erosion, sedimentary rock composition, and tectonic activity could create the monument's striking features without human intervention.

Carter Roy [26:40]: "Schoch also points out that the symmetry of both these formations is misleading. The entire surface of the monument is covered with coral, sponges, algae, and all sorts of other ocean flora."

Accessibility and Scientific Scrutiny

The remote location and challenging diving conditions limit extensive scientific exploration and verification of Kimura's claims. This scarcity of thorough examination leaves room for ongoing debate.

Carter Roy [31:56]: "There are so many hurdles to getting experts out to examine it, travel to a remote part of a world, scuba certification, proper conditions around the monument, and so much more."

---

Conclusion: A Monument of Wonder

Regardless of its true origins, the Yonaguni Monument remains a marvel that captivates all who encounter it. Its mysterious presence continues to inspire both awe and debate, embodying the timeless human fascination with lost civilizations and the mysteries of our planet.

Carter Roy [32:18]: "No matter what you believe, there's no doubt that the site is an absolute phenomenon. Natural or not, there is nothing else like it on the planet."

The episode leaves listeners pondering the fine line between myth and reality, encouraging them to consider how ancient structures can both illuminate and obscure our understanding of human history.

Carter Roy [34:01]: "Remember, the truth isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth."

---

Notable Quotes:

• Carter Roy [05:25]: "Divers say it feels like traveling back in time or entering a mythical kingdom."
• Co-host 1 [12:13]: "Marine geologist Masaki Kimura believes the incredible stone structure near Yonaguni is man-made."
• Carter Roy [26:08]: "Schoch finds the dramatic narrow entrance to the monument remarkable, but he views it as a natural stone passage."
• Carter Roy [17:16]: "Komura thinks it's possible that one of these stories isn't a legend at all."

---

This comprehensive exploration of the Yonaguni Monument in the Conspiracy Theories podcast episode captivates listeners by blending geological insights with archaeological speculations, all while questioning the boundaries between established history and lost civilizations.

Transcript

[Carter Roy]

Ancient humans from all over the planet passed down a similar myth.

They all tell the story of a.

[Co-host 1]

Lost civilization with advanced abilities.

[Carter Roy]

In some accounts, these people are gods.

[Co-host 1]

In others, they have eternal life. In the version you've probably heard, they create a culture in perfect harmony. A utopia. But a sudden flood engulfs the entire community. All their buildings, technology and knowledge are lost to the bottom of the ocean.

[Carter Roy]

Sounds familiar, right?

That's the legend of Atlantis.

Most agree the story is just that, a story.

[Co-host 1]

But why would so many prehistoric cultures thousands of miles apart be telling the same story? Some scuba divers and scholars think that's because it's true. They think they've found the evidence. Off the coast of the small Japanese island of Yonaguni, the underwater ruins of Atlantis. Welcome to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast.

[Carter Roy]

I'm Carter Roy.

[Co-host 1]

You can find us here every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at the Conspiracy pod.

[Carter Roy]

And we would love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Stay with us.

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[Carter Roy]

Yonaguni island is part of a Japanese archipelago called Ryukyu. The chain of islands sweeps off the southwestern tip of mainland Japan. Yonaguni is the last of the group.

And one of the smallest.

It's only about 20 miles in circumference. According to an episode of the show History's Mysteries on Yonaguni, you can drive.

Around the whole thing in less than 40 minutes.

[Co-host 1]

In 1987, Yonaguni, local and scuba diving master Kihachiro Aratake is on the hunt.

[Carter Roy]

For a hammerhead shark breeding ground. At the time, most visiting scuba divers come to see the unique sharks native to the area.

[Co-host 1]

So Aratake sets out on his boat and drops anchor in an area he hasn't explored yet.

[Carter Roy]

As he glides near the ocean floor, about 80ft below the surface, Aratake pauses. He can't believe what he's seeing in the underwater gloom. He sees a massive stone staircase.

[Co-host 1]

Huge steps perfectly parallel to the ocean floor, with sharp 90 degree angles.

[Carter Roy]

Even through his wetsuit, he feels his.

Hair standing on end and becomes unexpectedly emotional.

[Co-host 1]

His body seems to know before his brain.

[Carter Roy]

He is in the presence of something momentous. Aratake swims upward, following the rocks toward the surface. It seems to go on forever. The steps rise up regularly, forming a pyramid shape. He can't seem to process what he's seeing.

[Co-host 1]

One thought keeps overwhelming everything else. People made this.

[Carter Roy]

I am looking at undiscovered ancient ruins. Aratake names the headland near the site.

[Co-host 1]

Iseki Honto, or Ruins Point.

[Carter Roy]

The rock structure he discovered becomes known.

As the Yonaguni Monument.

Aratake returns, often bringing other divers whenever he can.

Everyone who sees it has an experience similar to Aratake's. Absolute wonder.

Divers say it feels like traveling back.

[Co-host 1]

In time or entering a mythical kingdom. The entire structure is more than 500ft.

[Carter Roy]

Long, almost as long as two football fields and about 65ft wide. At its highest point, it's almost as.

[Co-host 1]

Tall as an eight story building.

[Carter Roy]

The steps define just one side of.

The pyramid like structure. As Aratake and other divers continue to explore, they spot other features as well.

[Co-host 1]

There's a narrow rectangular passage that leads.

[Carter Roy]

Right to the bottom of the staircase.

[Co-host 1]

The walls are flat and even, with.

[Carter Roy]

Another huge rock lying across the top.

[Co-host 1]

To create the roof. Series of steps open up onto terraced.

[Carter Roy]

Platforms reminiscent of a stadium or amphitheater.

Some lower parts of the complex have symmetrical grooves in them.

Narrow channels that are just wide enough to walk in.

They almost look like roads or small canals.

Divers also notice two identical towers standing.

[Co-host 1]

Just 4 inches apart.

[Carter Roy]

All of it leaves them awestruck.

[Co-host 1]

With every dive, Aratake becomes more certain.

[Carter Roy]

He'S discovered a man made structure.

It's time to bring in an expert.

A marine geologist from nearby Ryukyu University.

Agrees to examine the site. His name is Misaki Komura, and he comes in skeptical.

But once he sees the structure for.

Himself, Komura's mindset shifts. He sees human intentionality and design in the symmetry and clean right angles. He connects the monument's shape to the famous Egyptian pyramids.

[Co-host 1]

Kimura thinks he could be looking at the key to a new chapter of human history.

[Carter Roy]

Kimura and his team get to work measuring and documenting the site. They later publish their findings. But it's not until photographs hit what.

Is at the time a new platform.

The World Wide Web, that news of the discovery spreads across the globe.

[Co-host 1]

By the mid-1990s, word of the ancient underwater ruins reaches a Boston based geologist named Robert Schoch.

[Carter Roy]

Schoch made his mark in 1990 with.

[Co-host 1]

His work on the Egyptian Great Sphinx. Historians thought they had correctly dated the Sphinx to 2500 BCE. But when shocked, Schoch applied some more modern dating techniques. He proved that the oldest parts of.

[Carter Roy]

The enormous feline are actually thousands of years older. Schoch isn't afraid to question the established academic narrative. In fact, he takes pride in upending it. Even with his open mind, Schoch takes.

News of the monument with a grain of salt.

New discoveries often come with a bit of exaggeration.

But then he sees the photos for himself.

Even though the images are grainy and dark, Schoc can't deny their intrigue.

He makes plans to check out the structure in 1997. Over the years, Schoch and Kimura spend time on site together and make independent dives to explore the monument.

They get into the water with the same goal.

To understand how this incredible stone structure ended up under the ocean.

[Co-host 1]

But they surface with two very different answers. Kimura, like Aratake, finds that each dive.

[Carter Roy]

Increases his certainty that the monument is ancient ruins. Everywhere he looks, he sees more evidence of human intervention.

For Shoc, it's the opposite. He can come up with a natural.

Cause for basically everything.

[Co-host 1]

Ever since 1997, Kimura and Shock have.

[Carter Roy]

Been locked in an academic discourse over.

The origins of the Yonaguni monument. Kimura believes it is man made.

Shock believes it's a remarkable case of natural erosion.

[Co-host 1]

I'll give you both sides so you.

[Carter Roy]

Can decide for yourself.

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[Co-host 1]

Marine geologist Masaki Kimura believes the incredible stone structure under the ocean.

[Carter Roy]

Near Yonaguni is man made.

I've seen pictures of it myself. From my lay perspective I can totally see why everything kind of feels like it's been designed with a purpose in mind. There are steps that height wise look functional for humans. There are these narrow symmetrical passages that.

[Co-host 1]

All seem to lead to the most.

[Carter Roy]

Dramatic and striking parts of the monument.

The base looks really sturdy, like it could have been built with earthquakes in mind since those are common in the area.

[Co-host 1]

There are also parts of the structure.

[Carter Roy]

That look like platforms and terraces and other sections that rise up like towers with what appears to be artistic designs behind them.

And there are channels or what look.

[Co-host 1]

Like they could be roads to me running along the bottom of the biggest.

[Carter Roy]

Part of the monument that lead to other stone structures nearby. As Kimura performs more detailed examinations of.

The monument, he also finds several areas.

[Co-host 1]

Where he believes there is evidence of masonry work.

[Carter Roy]

One example is what Komura thinks are.

[Co-host 1]

Three intentionally carved holes.

[Carter Roy]

They're all about the same size and are lined up in a row. Two are circular and one is hexagonal shaped. Kimura speculates they could have been used to hold posts for a gate or flags.

[Co-host 1]

Komura also says he found decorative carvings.

[Carter Roy]

In the stone, human faces and animal.

[Co-host 1]

Shapes, including a cow.

[Carter Roy]

The most dramatic one is an underwater.

[Co-host 1]

Sphinx with the face of an Okinawan king.

[Carter Roy]

But to really support his man made hypothesis, Komura has to address the next logical question.

Who built it?

Komura estimates the stone pyramid and surrounding.

Complex were built about 10,000 years ago, or 8,000 BCE.

The only known humans living on the.

Ryukyu islands at that time are called the Jomon people. Based on what we know about the.

[Co-host 1]

Jomon people, they tended to live near rivers or the coast in simple houses.

[Carter Roy]

Basically a thatched roof over a hole in the ground. Their small communities relied on hunting and gathering to survive.

Around the time of the monument's construction.

[Co-host 1]

The Jomond used tools and weapons made.

[Carter Roy]

From stone, bone, and wood.

They also made simple pottery by rolling.

[Co-host 1]

Clay into a long rope shaped pot and coiling it into a jar or bowl.

[Carter Roy]

Later, around 2500 BCE, Jomon Pottery became more advanced.

[Co-host 1]

They created clay figurines and carved intricate.

[Carter Roy]

Patterns into larger vessels like vases. There are a few details from the Jomon skills and lifestyle that could line up with the possible human touches.

On the Yonaguni monument.

Archaeologists have found.

Stone tools that date back to the Jomon period.

[Co-host 1]

Assuming those tools were made from harder.

[Carter Roy]

Rocks than the sandstone that makes up.

[Co-host 1]

The monument, the Jomon could be responsible.

[Carter Roy]

For some of the carvings on the rock face. Current archaeological evidence suggests that Jomon's carving.

[Co-host 1]

Didn'T become as detailed as what appears on the monument until thousands of years after its construction.

[Carter Roy]

Divers had found pottery fragments and stone tools near the Yonaguni site that date to roughly 2500 BCE, much later than the monument itself.

But even if the timeline doesn't totally line up, the style could.

[Co-host 1]

Although it's possible that the Jomon did.

[Carter Roy]

The stone masonry work on the monument.

It'S hard to believe they built the entire thing. Their lifestyle doesn't seem to suggest they were building massive stone structures. If they were capable of that, why did they live in holes? Plus, there isn't any evidence of similar stonework from the same Period anywhere else in the area.

[Co-host 1]

That's why Komuro thinks a completely different.

[Carter Roy]

Population is behind the structure. And so far, no one has discovered.

Proof of their existence. Like I mentioned earlier, ancient populations all over the world have their own legends.

About an advanced civilization that suddenly disappears.

In a catastrophic flood.

[Co-host 1]

Komura thinks it's possible that one of.

[Carter Roy]

These stories isn't a legend at all. The evidence Komura thinks the Yonaguni monument.

[Co-host 1]

Used to sit on an entire lost continent that used to occupy the middle of the Pacific.

[Carter Roy]

It's called the Lost Continent of Mu. The legend of the continent of Mu was first brought to a Western audience.

In the mid 19th century by a.

Scottish writer named James Churchward. He learned about Mu from monks in.

[Co-host 1]

India who claimed the story was inscribed.

[Carter Roy]

On ancient tablets they guarded in their monastery. The tablets described a massive landmass called.

[Co-host 1]

Mu that connected Hawaii to Easter island and Micronesia.

[Carter Roy]

That continent would have been over 7,000 miles across.

That's two and a half times bigger.

[Co-host 1]

Than the width of the United States.

[Carter Roy]

According to Church Ward, the people of.

Mu were sophisticated sailors.

[Co-host 1]

They explored the oceans and established colonies.

[Carter Roy]

In different corners of the world.

[Co-host 1]

At its peak, the continent of Mu.

[Carter Roy]

Supposedly held a population of over 60 million people.

There are a few things about the.

Yonaguni Monument that make Komura think it.

Used to stand on the moon continent. One is the location. Around 10,000 years ago, Yonaguni island would have been located on the Tropic of Cancer, which would have made it astronomically significant. It's possible that ancient humans on Yonaguni noticed the island's special location in relation to the stars and built the monument.

In honor of that.

Lots of other prehistoric structures like Stonehenge seem to be constructed with the heavens in mind. Maybe the Yonaguni Monument follows the same.

Template, but Komuro thinks it's even more specific than that.

A powerful seafaring civilization like the one on Mu would have relied on the stars to find their way around the ocean.

[Co-host 1]

The latitude of Yonaguni island would have.

[Carter Roy]

Been important to navigation.

[Co-host 1]

Komura thinks the Yonaguni Monument could have been constructed in order to help sailors.

[Carter Roy]

Get their bearings at sea.

There is another sign that astronomy figured into the monument's construction. Komura noticed a stone nearby that points.

Directly north and hypothesized that the people.

Of Mu used it as a sundial.

That could have served a practical purpose, like telling time.

[Co-host 1]

Or it could have been more spiritual.

[Carter Roy]

Representing a connection between the people on Earth and the awesome Stars above.

Kimura also believes that the monument's history.

[Co-host 1]

When it was built and when it.

[Carter Roy]

May have ended up underwater fits in.

Neatly into the mood legend.

[Co-host 1]

In fact, it provides some real life.

[Carter Roy]

Context that makes the story feel more real.

[Co-host 1]

According to the myth, the entire continent.

[Carter Roy]

Of Mu disappeared around the end of the last Ice Age.

The timing here will sound familiar. That was about 10,000 years ago, right around the same time as Kimura estimates that the Yonaguni Monument was constructed. As the earth warmed at the end.

Of the Ice Age, water levels rose worldwide, ocean coastlines changed rapidly, and there.

Are records of other ancient humans being taken by surprise. So it's not that the monument, and perhaps the entire Mu continent it rested.

Upon, got washed away in a flood.

It could have been permanently submerged by an expanding ocean.

Kimura compares the event to a massive.

Tsunami that hit Yonaguni in 1771.

That disaster caused the shoreline to rise 131ft. Finally, Kimura speculates that the monument and.

[Co-host 1]

The people of Mu could be a.

[Carter Roy]

Missing piece in a mystery about ancient human history.

To explain, let's talk a little more about pyramids. Ancient humans built pyramids all over the world, from Africa to Central America.

[Co-host 1]

The oldest can be found in Egypt.

[Carter Roy]

And an area in the Middle east called Mesopotamia. But scholars have never really been able to explain why pyramid structures showed up.

[Co-host 1]

All over the world when the people.

[Carter Roy]

Who built them had no contact with each other.

[Co-host 1]

Unless there was one advanced ancient culture.

[Carter Roy]

That learned how to build a pyramid and then dispersed around the world, spreading that knowledge.

Like the people of Mu, who could have constructed a stone pyramid on Yonaguni just before their entire homeland was engulfed.

By the Pacific Ocean.

Perhaps when Aratake was looking for a hammerhead shark breeding ground.

Instead, he stumbled upon the very first pyramid humans ever constructed.

[Co-host 1]

Perhaps the people who built the Yonaguni Monument were the first to develop the.

[Carter Roy]

Complex mathematical, organizational, and architectural skills necessary to create such an intricate structure. Perhaps the only reason that so many other famous pyramids exist, Khufu, Tikal, Cestius.

Is because the Yonaguni Monument came first. If that is the case, the Yonaguni Monument is proof of a legendary lost civilization. And that would upend our current understanding of human history.

Right now, most scholars embrace a version of ancient human history that focuses on the Old World, which originated in Mesopotamia around 3 or 4000 BCE. That was when humans first started using agriculture, created a hierarchical society, and generated sophisticated mathematical calculations to build things like pyramids.

[Co-host 1]

The theory goes that the New World.

[Carter Roy]

On The American continent developed the same.

Ideas in isolation thousands of years later.

[Co-host 1]

But what if the old world wasn't.

[Carter Roy]

The first sophisticated human civilization?

[Co-host 1]

If Komura's theory is correct, perhaps all advanced ancient civilizations can be traced back.

[Carter Roy]

To a single ill fated population whose.

Destruction push them to share their knowledge around the world.

[Co-host 1]

Maybe the Yonaguni monument isn't just the.

[Carter Roy]

First pyramid and the first evidence of a mythical lost kingdom.

[Co-host 1]

It could also be the origin of.

[Carter Roy]

Modern humanity as we know it.

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[Co-host 1]

Misaki Kimura is ready to change our.

[Carter Roy]

Understanding of human history with his theory.

About the man made Yonaguni monument.

But not everyone in his academic community agrees with his hypothesis.

[Co-host 1]

Robert Schoch, the geologist from Boston we.

[Carter Roy]

Discussed earlier, is as awestruck by the.

Underwater site as any other diver.

[Co-host 1]

Not because he thinks humans made the.

[Carter Roy]

Incredible formation in front of him.

[Co-host 1]

He assumes it's a miracle of Mother Nature.

[Carter Roy]

Less great pyramids and more Grand Canyon. Let's break it down by feature.

Schoch finds the dramatic narrow entrance to the monument remarkable.

[Co-host 1]

He's impressed by the perfectly vertical and.

[Carter Roy]

Symmetrical stones that wall the rectangular corridor.

And the flat level rock on its roof.

[Co-host 1]

In Schoch's mind, this is a natural.

[Carter Roy]

Stone passage created by normal splintering in the rocks.

[Co-host 1]

For the roof, he sees another rock.

[Carter Roy]

That fell from the shore or somewhere else on the monument. It was a lucky landing that created the tunnel.

[Co-host 1]

Shock agrees with Kimura and Aratake that.

[Carter Roy]

The step pyramid side of the monument is familiar. Sure, it does bear some resemblance to other famous pyramids around the globe, but.

[Co-host 1]

It also looks like something a whole.

[Carter Roy]

Lot closer the coastline right above the monument.

As Schoch looks at other geological formations.

[Co-host 1]

Around Yonaguni island, he notices that the cliffs along the shoreline have also worn.

[Carter Roy]

Down into steppe like shapes. Schoch discusses this in the History's Mysteries episode we mentioned earlier.

[Co-host 1]

He says he can't be sure without.

[Carter Roy]

More testing, but it seems like a.

Reasonable assumption that the monument and the.

Shoreline are made up of the same kind of rock.

If the coastline wore down into a.

Steppe structure, it follows logically that the monument would wear the same way.

It looks like the monument is made.

Up of sedimentary rock. That means different kinds of rock compressed together into layers when it's under pressure. Like being underwater, this kind of rock often has vertical breaks. It seems with weathering, like constant exposure.

[Co-host 1]

To ocean currents, layers of rock can peel off horizontally.

[Carter Roy]

That would create the step like structures that have become the focal point of the monument. Szoc thinks something else shaped the rocks too. The tectonic plates beneath them. Japan is well known for their earthquakes, and seismic activity could also be responsible for big dramatic breaks along seams in the rock.

Shock has a similar explanation for the little canals near the bottom of the monument and the symmetrical twin towers jutting out of it. The same kind of breakage along natural seams in the rock could create both structures.

In fact, they're really the same structure.

One is just oriented horizontally, the other vertically.

Schoch also points out that the so.

Called symmetry of both these formations is misleading. The entire surface of the monument is.

Covered with coral, sponges, algae, and all sorts of other ocean flora.

This growth acts like snow on gravel. It evens out a bumpy surface, making.

It appear smoother than it really is.

[Co-host 1]

Schoch has also said that many photographs.

[Carter Roy]

Of the monument can look deceptive.

Certain perspectives emphasize right angles and symmetry that can be less pronounced in person.

Schoch also thinks he can debunk what.

Kimura speculates is stone masonry work.

First, the depressions in the rock that.

Kimura says are post support ports.

[Co-host 1]

Schoch thinks they could be the result.

[Carter Roy]

Of ocean eddies scouring down the face of the rock. Marine animals also like to find small cracks and expand them to create a.

Safe place to hide from predators and.

The rough ocean currents. The holes are all in a straight line, which seems to indicate human intention. But the straight line makes perfect sense to shock as a natural result of sedimentary erosion.

[Co-host 1]

All the holes are worn in the.

[Carter Roy]

Same layer of rock that was softest and therefore most prone to the wearing effect of the ocean.

As far as the decorative carvings, Szoc.

Just doesn't see them. What looks intentional and artistic to Kimura.

[Co-host 1]

Looks like regular wear and tear to Shock.

[Carter Roy]

Shock compares it to looking at clouds and seeing shapes.

[Co-host 1]

Everyone can see something different, and chances.

[Carter Roy]

Are they might be more inclined to see what they want to. It seems like local and international officials side with Shock's line of thinking. Back in 2007, Kimura said the local.

Government and members of the United nations were interested in exploring the human significance.

Of the monument, but as far as we can tell, they never followed through. As of 2007, Yonaguni monument didn't have any kind of official protection as a historic site. As more academics have explored the Yonaguni Monument, they've tended to agree with Shock as well. Takeyuki Ogata, a geologist from the same university as Kimura, worked on a team that researched the monument in 2016.

All those geologists agree the monument is natural, not the result of human handiwork. Comura continues to take a position that opposes Schoch's claims. He points out that if the monument is the result of breakage along seams in the larger rock face of the monument, there should be boulders on the ocean floor.

He also cites the difficulty of exploring the monument.

There are so many hurdles to getting.

Experts out to examine it, travel to.

[Co-host 1]

A remote part of the world, scuba certification, proper conditions around the monument, and so much more.

[Carter Roy]

If more mainstream scientists could explore it, more will be revealed. But no matter what you believe, there's.

No doubt that the site is an absolute phenomenon.

Natural or not, there is nothing else.

Like it on the planet.

Everyone who lays eyes on it can't help but marvel in wonder.

[Co-host 1]

It's a universal experience that would have.

[Carter Roy]

Been shared by our ancestors should they have come upon the monument when it was still on dry land.

Even if they didn't create the structure.

[Co-host 1]

Itself, they certainly could have admired it, climbed it, or even used it as.

[Carter Roy]

A site for celebration or religious ceremonies.

[Co-host 1]

And maybe they even made some of.

[Carter Roy]

Those carvings that Kimura spotted. Even Schoch admits he can't say definitively whether the ocean made those marks over.

[Co-host 1]

Thousands of years, or if it wore.

[Carter Roy]

Down marks made by humans thousands of years ago.

Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Theories, a Spotify podcast. We're here with a new episode every Wednesday. Be sure to check us out on.

Instagram at the Conspiracy Pod.

If you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. Or email us at conspiracy [e-mail] amongst the many sources we used, we found episodes from two History Channel's docuseries, History's Mysteries and the Proof Is Out There about the Yonaguni Monument, as well as reporting from National Geographic, extremely helpful to our research.

Until next time.

Remember, the truth isn't always the best story.

And the official story isn't always the truth.

This episode was written and researched by Hannah McIntosh, edited by Connor Sampson and Mickey Taylor, Fact checked by Laurie Siegel and sound design by Alex Button. Our head of programming is Julian Boirau. Our head of production is Nick Johnson and Spencer Howard is our post production supervisor. I'm your host, Carter Roy.

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