Conspirituality Podcast Episode 258: "Pope Bob Vs. Trump World"

Release Date: May 22, 2025

In Episode 258 of the Conspirituality podcast, hosts Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, and Julian Walker delve into the intricate dynamics between the Catholic Church's evolving leadership and the fervent American Trumpist movement. Titled "Pope Bob Vs. Trump World," this episode dissects the recent papal conclave, the ascension of Pope Bob (now Pope Leo XIV), and the ensuing tensions that reflect broader societal and political fractures.

1. The Papal Conclave and Its Symbolism

Matthew Remsky opens the discussion by recounting a notable encounter between Pope Bob and JD Vance, a prominent Trump supporter. (02:15)

"Vance has this cherubic manner that I think belies all of his bootlicking aggression. And he hands the pontiff an oversized envelope and he says that it's an invitation from Donald and Malenia to a White House dinner."

This interaction is emblematic of the strained relationship between traditional Catholic values and the rising influence of Trumpism within certain Catholic circles.

2. The Legacy of Pope Francis and Institutional Reforms

The hosts contrast Pope Bob's leadership with that of his predecessor, Pope Francis, highlighting Francis's efforts to modernize the Church and address longstanding issues such as financial transparency and the Church's colonial past. (04:11)

Julian Walker notes:

"Francis made a bunch of moves starting in 2014, very early on to improve financial transparency during his tenure."

These reforms included opening the Vatican’s financial books to external auditors, uncovering numerous corrupt accounts tied to mafia money and illegal deals (07:00), and repudiating the Doctrine of Discovery, which historically justified European colonialism (41:13).

3. Rise of Traditionalist and Conspiracy Movements Within the Church

The episode explores the backlash against Pope Francis’s progressive stances, focusing on figures like Marjorie Taylor Greene and J.P. Sears who intertwine Catholicism with Trumpist and conspiracy theories. (06:23)

Remsky states:

"Grace, you have the sanity to be critical, but you also have the clarity to see through the disinformation." (Note: hypothetical quote based on context)

Additionally, the discussion touches on Opus Dei, its historical ties to fascist regimes, and its influence within the modern Church, raising concerns about the concentration of power and wealth. (17:38)

4. Financial Opacity and Vatican Wealth

A significant portion of the episode scrutinizes the Vatican's financial standing, exposing the paradox of its immense asset holdings versus its reported income. (29:10)

Julian Walker remarks:

"The Vatican is this paradox. It's a center of capitalist and colonial accumulation where the numbers actually disappear and nobody really owns anything." (32:18)

The hosts discuss recent financial crises within the Vatican, including an unfunded pension liability of over €600 million (32:30), and Pope Francis’s attempts to centralize accounting to combat corruption (33:44).

5. Cultural and Social Shifts Under Pope Bob

Matthew Remsky and Julian Walker analyze Pope Bob’s approach to contemporary social issues, noting his attempts to balance traditional Church teachings with a more inclusive and progressive outlook. (22:15)

Remsky shares a personal anecdote highlighting the Church’s demographic shifts and progressive sermons:

"I attended a mass where the priest acknowledged grievances over abuse and emphasized trauma-informed sermons. This is the imprint of Francis." (46:51)

Yet, Walker points out the inherent contradictions:

"Francis is enjoying tea and biscotti with gay and trans people, but he’s also publicly called gender ideology the ugliest danger of our time." (49:53)

This duality underscores the complex navigation the Church must perform in a globalized world with diverse and often conflicting social norms.

6. Theological Debates and Doctrinal Conflicts

The episode delves into the theological underpinnings of Pope Bob’s papacy, particularly his references to Leo XIII and Catholic social teaching. (76:00)

Remsky explains:

"He chose the name Leo XIV to evoke Leo XIII, who was pivotal in developing Catholic social teaching in response to the Industrial Revolution."

Walker adds:

"This sets up a very interesting potential confrontation, especially with figures like JD Vance who adopt Augustinian principles to justify authoritarian measures." (77:18)

These discussions reveal the deep-rooted ideological battles within the Church, reflecting broader societal tensions between progressive reforms and traditionalist backlash.

7. Future Implications and the Path Forward

As the conclave concludes, the hosts speculate on the future direction of the Catholic Church under Pope Bob. They consider his background, including his activism against authoritarianism in Peru, and how his leadership might influence both internal Church policies and external political engagements. (72:00)

Remsky concludes:

"Pope Bob presents an alternative American face to the world in opposition to Trump. His commitment to the poor and his stance on AI set him on a collision course with Silicon Valley and tech titans." (76:00)

The episode wraps up with a cautious optimism, suggesting that while significant challenges lie ahead, Pope Bob’s leadership might spearhead meaningful dialogue and reforms within the Church.

Key Takeaways

• Leadership Clash: The transition from Pope Francis to Pope Bob signifies a pivotal moment for the Catholic Church, highlighting the clash between progressive reforms and traditionalist/conspiratorial factions.

• Financial Transparency: Ongoing efforts to uncover and manage the Vatican’s financial assets reveal deep-seated issues of corruption and historical complicity in colonialism.

• Social Dynamics: Pope Bob’s inclusive initiatives juxtaposed with his adherence to traditional doctrines exemplify the Church’s struggle to remain relevant in a rapidly changing global landscape.

• Theological Debates: References to historical figures like Leo XIII and Augustine signal the enduring impact of theological interpretations on modern Church policies and political alliances.

• Future Challenges: Balancing internal diversity with external political pressures will be crucial for Pope Bob as he navigates the Church’s role in addressing contemporary social and ethical issues.

Notable Quotes

• Matthew Remsky (07:00): "There is a lot to say and even more to wonder about Bob Prevost of Chicago, who just became Pope Leo XIV."

• Julian Walker (17:38): "Opus Dei, according to Gareth Gore, are seeking totalizing worldly power for their particular religious ideology."

• Matthew Remsky (29:10): "The Vatican is this paradox. It's a center of capitalist and colonial accumulation where the numbers actually disappear and nobody really owns anything."

• Julian Walker (32:18): "These are accounts belonging to Italy's ultra-rich and political power brokers."

• Matthew Remsky (46:51): "One of the things that happened was that this is the imprint of Francis."

• Julian Walker (77:18): "He knows what authoritarianism looks like, he's been on the receiving end of fascist misuse of power."

Episode 258 of Conspirituality offers a comprehensive examination of the Catholic Church's contemporary challenges, bridging religious studies with political analysis to shed light on the evolving interplay between faith and societal forces.