Conspirituality Podcast Episode 259: MAHA is Project 2025’s Trojan Horse

Release Date: May 29, 2025

In Episode 259 of the Conspirituality podcast, hosts Derek Barris, Matthew Remski, and Julian Walker delve into the intricate web connecting MAHA (Ministry of Health and Human Services) with Project 2025, positing MAHA as a strategic "Trojan Horse" within the broader agenda of deregulation and privatization of healthcare. This episode meticulously dissects the alliances between New Age wellness proponents, conspiracy theorists, and alt-right factions, highlighting the detrimental impacts on public health and social services.

1. Introduction to MAHA and Project 2025

The episode opens with a comprehensive overview of MAHA's role under RFK Jr.'s leadership, juxtaposing its purported public health objectives with the underlying intentions aligned with Project 2025's deregulatory agenda.

Julian Walker [02:03]: "MAHA is Project 2025’s Trojan Horse. We’ve been talking about RFK Jr. for years, and his power and influence have only grown. Now, since he’s in charge of America’s entire health apparatus, there’s no way to avoid it."

2. MAHA’s Public Health Agenda vs. Deregulatory Goals

Derek Barris scrutinizes the apparent contradiction between MAHA's public health mission and its alignment with Project 2025's right-wing playbook aimed at privatizing healthcare and deregulating industries.

Derek Barris [03:03]: "The piece that always seemed off was how Kennedy's MAHA agenda, which on its face is about public health and regulating companies, fits into this right-wing playbook for privatizing healthcare and deregulating industries."

He points out MAHA's voluntary measures, such as the food dye ban, as merely superficial changes that do not address the systemic issues of deregulation.

3. Funding Cuts and the Shift to Functional Medicine

The discussion highlights MAHA's significant reduction of $800 million from public health research, aiming to pivot funding towards the private sector, particularly functional health and alternative medicine companies.

Derek Barris [04:35]: "Now what isn't voluntary is the $800 million Kennedy has cut from public health research. I believe he wants to move those interests to the private market of functional health and alt med companies."

He cites MAHA's collaboration with industry leaders like Mark Hyman of Function Health and the data-tracking app Whoop, suggesting a seamless transition of public funds into privatized health solutions.

4. The Rise of Functional Diagnostics and Supplement Market

Barris critiques the role of companies like Function Health, which offer diagnostic tests and supplements, arguing that they exploit minor health fluctuations to monetize public concerns.

Derek Barris [07:14]: "Function Health is doing a second round of fundraising for $200 million, claiming a $2 billion valuation based on diagnostics and supplements. They need a lot of people for that company to be profitable."

Matthew Rimsky adds that the reduction in public health funding forces individuals to seek private healthcare products, exacerbating disparities.

5. Policy Implications: SNAP and Medicaid Work Requirements

The hosts examine MAHA's stance on SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) and Medicaid, revealing efforts to restrict benefits based on arbitrary health standards and work requirements.

Matthew Rimsky [08:32]: "If there is a wealth transfer from HHS toward companies like True Med for some diagnostic procedures, that would be a direct shift from public to private healthcare. Otherwise, reductions in funds to HHS programs will force people to seek private healthcare products."

Derek Barris elaborates on how MAHA attempts to blame SNAP beneficiaries for health issues like soda consumption, ignoring structural problems like food deserts.

Derek Barris [11:17]: "MAHA is exploiting poor populations by putting the onus of their bad health back onto them, claiming policies like banning soda will solve deeper issues."

6. Critique of NEJM Article by Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad

Julian Walker discusses an opinion piece in the New England Journal of Medicine authored by Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad, both Covid contrarians now affiliated with MAHA. The article critiques US Covid booster policies, suggesting they are not evidence-based and proposing new randomized controlled trials.

Julian Walker [24:37]: "The article claims that US booster policy is not evidence-based, but upon closer examination, many of their claims are either exaggerated or incorrect."

Derek Barris emphasizes the authors' tendency to present misinformation rapidly, making it difficult for the public to fact-check in real-time.

Derek Barris [25:28]: "They throw numbers at people so fast that it slips into consciousness, crafting a misleading narrative."

7. The Flawed Science Behind Booster Recommendations

The hosts dissect the flawed logic in Makary and Prasad's argument against boosters, highlighting the lack of consideration for variant-induced immunity and the benefits of hybrid immunity.

Julian Walker [30:08]: "They argue that since natural immunity wanes, boosters are unnecessary, ignoring how new variants challenge our immune system and hybrid immunity offers robust protection."

Derek Barris [31:54]: "By the time randomized trials are completed, new variants will have emerged, rendering the studies obsolete and perpetuating a cycle of misinformation."

8. Autonomous Healthcare and Pseudoscience

The episode critiques the alignment between MAHA and pseudoscientific wellness influencers, arguing that unregulated private healthcare exacerbates public health issues while enriching a select few.

Derek Barris [22:01]: "They are shifting taxpayer money to unregulated biotech and wellness startups, which will only worsen the healthcare system."

9. Autism, Disability Politics, and Economic Implications

A significant portion of the episode focuses on MAHA's distorted views on autism, echoing historical ableism and economic exploitation. The hosts explore how MAHA frames autism as an economic burden rather than acknowledging it as a natural variation of human experience.

Matthew Rimsky [40:01]: "MAHA’s focus on curing autism revolves around economic contributions, neglecting the dignity and social models of disability that advocate for societal accommodations."

Julian Walker [47:30]: "The historical context of autism studies reveals a legacy of dehumanization, which MAHA perpetuates by framing autism as a financial liability."

10. The Social Model of Disability vs. MAHA’s Medical Model

The conversation contrasts the social model of disability, which emphasizes societal responsibility to accommodate neurodiversity, with MAHA's medical model that seeks to 'fix' individuals to fit societal norms.

Matthew Rimsky [50:43]: "Robert Chapman's 'Empire of Neurodiversity and Capitalism' argues that societal changes, not autism itself, create the need for labeling and diagnosing neurodiversity."

Julian Walker [53:37]: "Chapman posits that changing labor conditions have led to increased identification of neurodiverse individuals, highlighting systemic issues rather than individual deficiencies."

11. Concluding Insights: Structural Critique and Hope for Change

The episode wraps up with a critical examination of MAHA's role in perpetuating class struggles and ableism, while also offering a glimmer of hope through activism and the social model of disability.

Matthew Rimsky [42:08]: "MAHA represents a broader war against socialized medicine, focusing on individual responsibilities while ignoring structural determinants of health."

Julian Walker [40:40]: "Despite MAHA’s influence, the resilience and activism within the autism community highlight the possibility of challenging and changing these oppressive narratives."

Derek Barris [61:45]: "In educational systems, more time in nature and less regimentation could benefit autistic children, challenging the current paradigms that prioritize economic productivity over individual well-being."

Key Takeaways

• MAHA as a Private Sector Trojan Horse: MAHA’s public health initiatives mask a strategic move towards privatizing healthcare and deregulating industries, aligning with Project 2025's right-wing agenda.

• Funding Shifts and Functional Medicine: Significant cuts in public health research are funneling funds into functional medicine and alternative healthcare companies, raising concerns about exploitation and misinformation.

• Policy Manipulation: MAHA's policies on SNAP and Medicaid work requirements reflect a broader trend of shifting public health burdens onto vulnerable populations.

• Misguided Booster Policies: The critique of US Covid booster policies by MAHA-affiliated authors reveals a pattern of misinformation and flawed science aimed at undermining public trust in vaccines.

• Autism and Economic Exploitation: MAHA's portrayal of autism as an economic burden echoes historical ableism, ignoring the social model of disability that advocates for societal accommodations and respect for neurodiversity.

• Resilience Through Activism: Despite MAHA’s attempts to reshape public health narratives, active resistance and advocacy within the autism community offer hope for systemic change.

Notable Quotes

• Derek Barris [03:03]: "MAHA's goals align perfectly with Project 2025, which is why I believe it is the Heritage Foundation's Trojan horse."

• Matthew Rimsky [08:32]: "If this is where Derek thinks it's going, it's probably going that way."

• Julian Walker [24:37]: "The article claims that US booster policy is not evidence-based, but upon closer examination, many of their claims are either exaggerated or incorrect."

• Matthew Rimsky [51:53]: "Chapman is saying these people have always been here. They've always dealt with what autism is. It's changing labor conditions that have made society increasingly label them."

Conclusion

Episode 259 of Conspirituality offers a penetrating analysis of how MAHA serves as a conduit for Project 2025's deregulatory and privatization efforts within the American healthcare system. By exposing the intertwined interests of New Age wellness advocates, conspiracy theorists, and alt-right factions, the hosts underscore the urgent need for vigilance and activism to protect public health and uphold the dignity of marginalized communities.