271: The Miseducation of PragerU

Summary

Podcast Summary

Conspirituality – Episode 271: "The Miseducation of PragerU"

Date: August 21, 2025
Hosts: Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, Julian Walker

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Conspirituality critically explores the rise and mainstreaming of PragerU, examining its funding, ideology, educational influence—particularly on children—and contrasting it with the tradition of public educational programming exemplified by PBS and Sesame Street. The hosts analyze how PragerU's content, now entering public school curricula and potentially serving as right-wing state media under a Trump administration, advances a coherent but deeply regressive social and political agenda under the guise of "education."

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Political Takeover of Public Education Resources

• Context Set (02:03): Julian Walker introduces the episode by noting the defunding and closing of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) and the conservative political maneuvering to replace PBS with PragerU materials in schools.

  • “The Right has waged a war on woke Sesame Street for generations… That bill stripped $1.1 billion from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, greatly damaging NPR, PBS and mostly their member stations.” (02:03, Julian Walker)

• PragerU’s Ideological Position: PragerU is presented as an online, ideologically driven alternative to what the right terms “woke educational indoctrination.”

  • “…teaches kids to hate DEI, love paying taxes, and recognize that the Bible offers the only salvation on this planet. Could it replace Sesame Street, however?” (02:41, Julian Walker)

2. Origins, Funding, and Agenda of PragerU

• Founders and Funders:

  • Dennis Prager (right-wing broadcaster) co-founded PragerU with funding from billionaire fracking magnates, the Wilkes brothers, who are also connected to religious extremism and other major right-wing media.
    • “…the Wilkes father… is also the founder of an ultra conservative Jews for Jesus style church called the Assemblies of Yahweh… The Wilkes brothers also funded Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire. Other PragerU funders include Sheldon Adelson, the National Christian foundation, the DeVos Family foundation, and Home Depot founder Bernard Marcus.” (04:18, Julian Walker)

• Ideological Core & Tactics:

  • PragerU’s message: Anti-DEI, anti-LGBTQ, pro-Christian, anti-secular, pro-Israel, anti-immigration, and anti-climate science.

  • PragerU operates as a 501(c)3 "nonprofit" but functions as an advocacy and propaganda network employing slick animated videos and algorithmic savvy.

  • “PragerU has no campus, employs no professors, and offers no courses or diplomas. It's an online propaganda platform built around a YouTube channel.” (03:52, Julian Walker)

• Direct-to-Classroom Influence:

  • PragerU is now a vendor in several state education departments (Florida, New Hampshire, Montana, etc.), with lesson plans for K-6 and virtual "Founders Museum" content (AI-generated historical figures reciting right-wing catchphrases).

  • “Since then, New Hampshire, Montana, Oklahoma, Arizona, South Carolina, Idaho and Louisiana have followed suit… this could be material passed off as educational on a national government endorsed level very soon.” (09:31, Julian Walker; 19:27, Derek Barris)

3. PragerU Content Review & Critique

• Token Diversity & Aesthetic Appropriation:

  • PragerU deploys diverse hosts and characters, mirroring corporate diversity and PBS kids' style, while pushing a conservative/traditionalist message.
    • “…all the shit that the right has said that sitcom TV shouldn't be doing, they very much do… they might be anti-DEI, but they're making sure to include equal numbers of women, black people and Latinos.” (18:11, Derek Barris)
    • “Black folks are overrepresented in all of their branding. There's a lot of tokenism going on… they've deliberately adopted these corporate multicultural style optics as well as a PBS kids style of graphics.” (18:33, Julian Walker)

• Spin on Economic and Social Policy:

  • Cash Course: “Redistribution: Does It Work?” (26:07–31:26)
    Critiques the narrative that government redistribution is wasteful, demotivates work, and causes social unrest—delivered to kids through breezy animation and child-friendly music.

    • “Unfortunately, government redistribution comes at a high cost and it rarely changes the distribution of income in any lasting way…And the government tends to be slower, more wasteful, and less efficient.” (26:57, Julian Walker)
    • Hosts refute this by citing UBI research and the hypocrisy of labeling basic tax justice as “theft.” (31:26, Matthew Rimsky & Julian Walker)

  • Multiculturalism as a “Bad Idea” (33:34–39:41)
    PragerU video hosted by Konstantin Kisin frames multiculturalism as divisive, encourages pure assimilation, and pathologizes immigrant communities who retain cultural memory, missing the realities of generational assimilation and community formation.

    • “Multiculturalism is about people coming to the west and forming their own communities with their own rules and practices…The onus should be on the immigrant, not the host country.” (34:02, Julian Walker)
    • Discussion highlights how these takes flatten or dehumanize the lived experiences of immigrant integration. (38:08, Derek Barris)

  • Animated Columbus Video: Minimizing Slavery (39:44–40:17)
    The hosts play and mock a kids’ video where a cartoon Columbus shrugs off slavery as universal and just “how things were,” accusing PragerU of flattening atrocities into historical inevitabilities.

    • “‘Slavery is as old as time and has taken place in every corner of the world…before you judge, you must ask yourself what did the culture and society at the time treat as no big deal?’” (39:44, Julian Walker as Columbus)

4. Contrast with PBS/Sesame Street & the Threat to Public Education

• The Legacy of Sesame Street (46:43–59:02)

  • Matthew recounts the social function and production care behind the “Farewell Mr. Hooper” episode, emphasizing its honesty, inclusivity, and emotional educative value—qualities the hosts frame as intolerable to right-wing sensibility.
    • “They had to do what the best adults always do, which is they had to engage with honesty and vulnerability… because the one thing they knew that they wanted to be was honest.” (46:46, Matthew Rimsky)
    • “I don't think there's a more perfect moment in children's media, maybe television, ever… All of it is anathema to right wing politics based in anxiety and resentment and which simmers towards fascism.” (51:00, Matthew Rimsky)

• The Decades-Long Attack on Public Broadcasting
  Tracing the conservative project to defund and destroy PBS—from Nixon, Reagan, Bush, to Trump—hosts show the systematic effort to replace education-as-public-good with privatized, ideological content. - “Conservatives, I think, have always known that public broadcasting means public education. It means inclusivity… a potentially radical increase in democracy and equality.” (54:32, Matthew Rimsky)

• Sesame Street as Cultural Battleground

  • Iconically progressive moments—like Jesse Jackson’s “I Am Somebody” poetry with children—are described as epitomizing what the right wants erased.

    • (57:46–58:52, Jesse Jackson leads kids in affirmation)

  • Hosts argue that while PBS sometimes fell prey to "both-sidesism," its overall impact was unique, egalitarian, and world-defining—unlike anything PragerU supplies.

5. Reflections and Prophetic Satire

• Citing a 1994 Sesame Street parody of Donald Trump ("Ronald Grump") as predictive satire, they illustrate the cultural and political battle over the soul of American childhood. (59:33–61:00)
• Despite the onslaught, the hosts are not entirely pessimistic, citing new progressive uses of Sesame Street-style aesthetics and the persistent memory of what public goods once represented.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On PragerU’s Diversity Optics:
  “They might be anti-DEI, but they're making sure to include equal numbers of women, black people and Latinos.” (18:11, Derek Barris)

• On Propagandizing Childhood:
  “What a mess. That music, like the attempt to shove through this propaganda in oversimplified language while using that music…” (28:38, Julian Walker) “It makes propaganda age appropriate is what it does.” (30:21, Matthew Rimsky)

• On Slavery Minimization:
  “Slavery is as old as time… before you judge, you must ask yourself what did the culture and society at the time treat as no big deal?” (39:44, Animated Columbus [quoted by Julian Walker])

• On the True Meaning of Public Education (PBS):
  “They had to do what the best adults always do, which is they had to engage with honesty and vulnerability.” (46:46, Matthew Rimsky) “I don't think there's a more perfect moment in children's media… All of it is anathema to right wing politics based in anxiety and resentment and which simmers towards fascism.” (51:00, Matthew Rimsky)

• On the attacks on PBS:
  “Conservatives, I think, have always known that public broadcasting means public education. It means inclusivity. It has to. It means a potentially radical increase in democracy and equality.” (54:32, Matthew Rimsky)

---

Key Timestamps

• [02:03] – Introduction to the CPB defunding, PragerU’s growing influence
• [03:37] – Overview of PragerU’s origins, funding, ideological structure
• [09:23] – PragerU’s content samples and school partnerships
• [18:11] – Discussion of tokenism and diversity optics in PragerU’s branding
• [26:07] – Dissection of PragerU Kids' “Cash Course: Redistribution” video
• [33:34] – Multiculturalism as “a bad idea”: PragerU’s assimilationist indoctrination
• [39:44] – PragerU’s minimization of slavery through Columbus cartoon
• [46:43] – Tribute to Sesame Street’s Mr. Hooper and PBS’s public value
• [54:32] – History of attacks on public broadcasting; PBS’s political context
• [57:46] – Jesse Jackson’s “I Am Somebody” on Sesame Street
• [59:33] – 1994 “Ronald Grump” Sesame Street skit satirizing Trumpism

---

Takeaways

• PragerU’s rise is not merely about content but about institutional displacement: replacing generations of public good with private ideology, often by stealth.
• The tradition of public programming (Sesame Street, PBS) offered inclusivity, honesty, and universal values for children—now directly in the crosshairs of political revanchism.
• The right’s dual strategy: starve public education of funding, then fill the vacuum with ideologically weaponized content masquerading as apolitical “values.”
• Hosts urge listeners to remember, mourn, and resist the loss of these public goods—and to see through the tokenism and surface appeal of the replacement materials.

---

Closing Reflection

The hosts end on a note of both elegy and solidarity, suggesting that while the battle over educational media is fierce and ongoing, the spirit of public-minded, inclusive programming cannot be erased from memory—or future possibilities.

---

Summary by Conspirituality Podcast Summarizer. Episode available ad-free and with bonus content via their Patreon.

Transcript

[Julian Walker]

Buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait. You mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options, all within my budget.

[Matthew Rimsky]

That's cool.

[Julian Walker]

But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right?

[Derek Barris]

That's what they said.

[Julian Walker]

You can spend time trying to pronounce.

[Derek Barris]

Financing or you can actually finance and buy your car today on Carvana financing.

[Julian Walker]

Subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other.

[Julian Walker]

When Alyssa got a small water bottle.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Mike showed up with a four litre jug.

[Julian Walker]

When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping. Oh, come on. They called a truce for their holiday.

[Derek Barris]

And used Expedia trip planner to collaborate.

[Julian Walker]

On all the details of their trip.

[Derek Barris]

Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever.

[Julian Walker]

You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to to help organize the competition. Expedia Made to travel.

[Derek Barris]

Hey everyone. Welcome to Conspirituality where we investigate the intersections of conspiracy theories and spiritual influence to uncover cults, pseudoscience and authoritarian extremism. I'm Derek Barris.

[Matthew Rimsky]

I'm Matthew Rimsky.

[Julian Walker]

I'm Julian Walker.

[Derek Barris]

You can find us on Instagram and threads. Conspiritualitypod. We are also all individually on Blue sky so you can find our names there and you can access all of our episodes ad free, plus our Monday bonus episodes on [e-mail] conspirituality if you use Apple Podcasts you can just access our Monday bonus episodes via Apple subscriptions. They make that very easy for you to do. As independent media creators, we really appreciate your support.

[Julian Walker]

Conspirituality 271 the Miseducation of Prageru the Right has waged a war on woke Sesame street for generations. When the party passed the 2025 Rescissions act, they were finally able to take a significant field advantage in this battle. One which big bird and Mr. Snuffleupagus never wanted to be. That bill stripped $1.1 billion from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, greatly damaging NPR, PBS and mostly their member stations. The CPB announced it will have to close in January 2026. What will take its place? Well, the Right has a plan for that too. Or so Vox speculates. PragerU founded in 2009 as a right wing alternative to reality, the sprawling, well funded network teaches kids to hate dei, love paying taxes, and recognize that the Bible offers the only salvation on this planet. Could it replace Sesame street, however? Well, it's already in use in numerous classrooms and the right wants it in all of them.

[Matthew Rimsky]

What has happened to American schools and children? Children's Entertainment WOKE agendas are infiltrating classrooms, culture and social media. Is there anywhere that's still safe for our children? Yes, it's called Prageru Kids.

[Julian Walker]

So reads the Prageru Landing page that hosts the videos for their Kids section, also available for streaming directly to your TV. This particular endeavor started in 2021, but it's part of the much larger and longer lived Prager operation. So let's start there before we zoom in. Positioned as an alternative to WOKE educational indoctrination, Prageru has no campus, employs no professors, and offers no courses or diplomas. It's an online propaganda platform built around a YouTube channel. It's also registered as a 501c3 nonprofit advocacy group. Though the channel itself shows 3.3 million subscribers and around 2.3 billion views in 2022, they claim to have had billion lifetime views across various platforms. As we'll get into later, 84 million of those views have come in just four years via their PragerU Kids YouTube channel. Originally founded by conservative talk show host Dennis Prager, who's been on the radio since 1982, and screenwriter Alan Estrin. Seed money for Prageru came from the billionaire Wilkes brothers, who made their fortune as fracking pioneers. Now the Wilkes father, as it turns out, is also the founder of an ultra conservative Jews for Jesus style church called the Assemblies of Yahweh, which keeps the Jewish Sabbath but believes Christ to be the Savior and Son of God while also rejecting Trinitarianism. The Assemblies of Yahweh preaches that abortion and homosexuality are not only sins, but should be criminalized and punished by law. By the way, the Wilkes brothers also funded Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire. Other Prageru funders include Sheldon Adelson, the National Christian foundation, the DeVos Family foundation, and Home Depot founder Bernard Marcus.

[Derek Barris]

Prager is very at home with this group, we should add. He was born in Brooklyn and he's an early case of a disaffected liberal who made a right turn in the Reagan era. There seems to be a lot of them, especially, I would imagine, people who made money and liked Reagan's tax incentives. Prager said that accepting homosexuality is a sign of the decline of Western civilization. He wants conservative Jews and Christians to unite to push back against the existential danger of secularism. And more recently, he called COVID 19 measures the greatest mistake in the history of humanity while comparing the struggle of unvaccinated individuals to the stigma that gay men face during the AIDS Act.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Wow, so some really, really scrambled empathy there, right?

[Derek Barris]

Exactly, exactly. I hate gay people. They are the mark of Satan, but they face a lot of stigma.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah. And if we can steal their victimhood, we will.

[Derek Barris]

Prager is also on record claiming that campus hate crimes against black students are hoaxes that are perpetuated by the black students who just want attention. All of this and more appears in Prager used content, including children's channel that you referenced, Julian. And as I'll cover in the second segment today, it goes a far beyond all of what I just expressed. Meanwhile, Prager has made the most of his estimated 12 to 20 million dollars net worth by selling books on religion. Sure, they hold up very well on ethics and on politics. And you flagged his show that started 1982. It is a long running nationally syndicated show called the Dennis Prager.

[Matthew Rimsky]

He comes off to me a little bit. We're going to hear some clips, but he's sort of like a more even keel intellectual sounding. Rush Limbaugh, because he dates from that era, doesn't he?

[Derek Barris]

Are you saying that Rush Limbaugh is an intellectual?

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, I am.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, he is. He is a bit more measured and he does have. He does have some of that sort of pretense toward a theologian and a sort of philosopher, where Limbaugh is just kind of doing bombastics. Right.

[Matthew Rimsky]

He seems also affect wise to hide the aggression a little bit better.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, no, I think that's a good observation. So Prageru initially produced an instantly recognizable branded style of roughly five minute videos that used stylized motion graphics to illustrate voiceovers, usually in the service of these short explainers about politics, history and religion. After about three years of that and 60 million views, they started gradually, gradually varying their content, all of which they describe as promoting Judeo Christian values. It's been criticized though, by historians and political scientists for misleading and false statements about climate science, Covid vaccines, racism, slavery, immigration and fascism. So all the good ones, climate scientists and journalists have pointed out their frequent misleading claims on that topic. And gay and trans advocacy groups have flagged their discriminatory stances. Mother Jones reported in 2018 that each video costs between 25 and $30,000 to produce and that all the scripts were personally edited and approved by Prager himself. Now, Matthew, if you look at their YouTube. You might be glad to know that their most viewed video at 27 million, helps viewers understand the difference between liberals and leftists. So perhaps that's one saving grace, a public service of sorts.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, I watched it, and Dennis himself as a presenter, I don't think he actually does a bad job of outlining like reformism versus revolutionary positions, although he strawmans the latter as like terminally hateful or self hating or anti American. So John Brown wants to have a word, but his main point is that liberals should view leftists as their political enemies, not conservatives. So basically he's cheering us on, guys, whenever the three of us fight.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, he loves that. But I would say as a progressive, I strongly disavow his binary construction there. Second in the list of video is one that tells immigrants not to support what they've fled, which presumably is communism. And then the third is a video that criticizes progressive income tax because, you know, every college student is obsessed with that topic, despite not really being a university of any kind. As we've established, Prageru developed a school partnership program in 2015 that provides secondary school and college teachers with lesson plans that accompany their videos. And then in 2023, they became an official education vendor to the Florida education system, which means their content is featured within lesson plans as part of Revision civics and government standards. Since then, New Hampshire, Montana, Oklahoma, Arizona, South Carolina, Idaho and Louisiana have followed suit. The PRAGERU website also has a Kids section with categories that serve videos to kids from kindergarten through sixth grade on a cheery blend of patriotism, free enterpr, Bible stories, history and civics. And then at the White House this past June, Linda McMahon's education department announced a partnership with PRAGERU on something called the Founders Museum. This is a virtual exhibit celebrating the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, which features AI generated videos of the people from the Revolutionary War coming to life to give us a little chat. One of these AI videos features John Adams uttering modern day Ben Shapiro's infamous catchphrase, facts don't care about your feelings. So I see a transition here with Prageru from the old media of talk radio into a YouTube channel. And they were early adopters, so kudos on that foresight. Funded by religious extremists that positions itself as both educational and engaging to young people and serves them viral political propaganda which distorts facts and science to fit their agenda and then finds their way into the educational system. They Also now run six podcasts. PragerU has also been Very algorithmically savvy in a way that researcher Francesca Tripoti, who we've interviewed before on the show, says allows people who identify as mainland conservatives to dabble in alt right and white supremacist ideas within the ecosystem created by the suggested content recommendations.

[Derek Barris]

I'm really not amazed. I don't know if that's the right word because they've done it in open sight. But for generations now, the right has attacked public schooling in order often to funnel taxpayer money into private schooling, which you know, Mother Jones has reported on that extensively. But they on public schooling all the time while at the same time trying to feed all of their educational content into public school curricula. That's been the sleight of hand and as we're seeing now going over it, you know, we're gonna soon gonna go over some of the actual content. They've been extremely successful at this game.

[Matthew Rimsky]

When you say sleight of hand though, Derek, are you saying that like, isn't it a double pronged, you know, sort of effort that, you know, we're gonna try to privatize on one side, but then if there's anything left of the public school system, they're gonna be like watching Prageru all day long.

[Derek Barris]

They make it seem like a sleight of hand, but what they're actually doing is what you just identified. That's better put that way.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, I gotcha.

[Julian Walker]

Okay, so Derek, as the non parent on staff, you've bravely volunteered to survey Prageru's educational kids content. And we'll get into that in the next segment.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, we're also glad that he volunteered because I think both of us would be like, you know, our mental health would be really in danger.

[Derek Barris]

Well, it's going to get there in the next segment.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Okay. Right now at the Home Depot, you'll.

[Derek Barris]

Find storage solutions made to fit your needs.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Grab an HDX tough tote to protect.

[Derek Barris]

Your tools or keep your sports equipment.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Contained with reinforced snap fit lids. Or stack up and make better use of your space with bins and totes built to last. Whatever your story, we've got the gear.

[Derek Barris]

To keep it organized and protected at the Home Depot.

[Julian Walker]

How doers get more done. This episode is brought to you by JCPenney. Yes, JCPenney. And if you've been there recently, you know it's the place to go for jaw dropping looks at brag worthy prices. They've got something special for every style and budget. Not to mention rewards and deals that make finding those, those hidden gems even sweeter. If you already shop JCPenney, you're already in on the secret. But if not, it's time to ask. Wait, am I sleeping on jcpenney? Shop jcpenney.com yes jcpenney this episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it.

[Julian Walker]

And they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Save up to 40% your first year.

[Julian Walker]

Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms apply.

[Derek Barris]

Okay Kids Content? Sure, Julian, but there's a shit ton more content, so we're going to kind of speed run through four different clips. Or five. Actually. I put in a bonus one just for Matthew here. PragerU has 15 main ongoing shows, and these include Real Talk with Marissa Straight, which I covered on Monday's bonus, and whose host Melissa recently sat down with Victor or Bond to discuss how great Hungary really is. She is also PragerU's CEO, so she's very visible throughout the channel. There's Ami on the Loose, where Ami Horowitz goes into the absolute chaos and anarchy in my adopted city of Portland, Oregon. More recently, he wondered if anti ice protesters are really that peaceful. There's also history level history channel level shows like American Presidents, which are just basically puff pieces that skim over a whole lot of history. They offer 32 additional playlists throughout their channels. These Some of the topics include why Capitalism beats Socialism every Time, why Socialism never Works, and my favorite, which is Healthcare is not a right. There's also family favorites like Are you there, God? The Ten Commandments, and Understanding the Torah. Don't worry, they do round out the three main Abrahamic religions with their playlist the dangers of Radical Islam.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, that's great.

[Derek Barris]

Rounding out their main offerings, they have five PragerU Kids shows like Animated Bible Stories for Kids, Cash Course, Financial Literacy for Teens and Young Adults, and they have four podcasts, including Fireside Chat with Dennis Prager. One thing I want to point out that's important given that I reviewed dozens of videos preparing for this. Prageru has an agenda, but they're very smart in how they approach it. They are fundamentalist Christian, they are pro Israel, anti Islam on every turn. They are conservative and Trumpian. They are deregulatory and pro Reaganomics. But they hire a diverse range of hosts and they use animated videos of very diverse characters. You know, all the shit that the right has said that sitcom TV shouldn't be doing, they very much do. They might be anti dei, but they're making sure to include equal numbers of women, black people and Latinos.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Anybody in a hijab, Derek, that you.

[Derek Barris]

Saw, they are only there if they're willing to be pro Israel. So they look for Muslims who have turned against Islam and are now fans of Israel. That is the only people I've seen. So no, they're not actually wearing hijabs.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. I mean, just glancing over the web pages, I would say black folks are overrepresented in all of their branding. There's a lot of tokenism going on. And ironically, it seems like they've deliberately adopted these corporate multicultural style optics as well as a PBS kids style. And I'm familiar with this because my child is still quite young of graphics to try to sort of normalize and have that sort of fun bright colors and, you know, really cool graphics, which normalizes their overtly conservative and at times straight up racist content.

[Derek Barris]

They really do just rip off the aesthetics of what exists right now and then replace it with their messaging. So that is the macrocosm. Let's listen to a few clips. I want to play them with this thought in mind. There's a possibility that Prageru is going to be integrated into the Trump administration as a form of state media.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Right.

[Derek Barris]

That's what, that's what VOX speculates. That's kind of the mindset that we're approaching this. And I mean, really, it's already serving that function. But this could be material passed off as educational on a national government endorsed level very soon.

[Matthew Rimsky]

What's the, what's the threshold there that they actually receive federal funding? Like, because it's pretty clearly being fronted by a whole bunch of government actors and it's making its way into a kind of, you know, functional national curriculum. But what's. Like, what would. What would actually define it as state media?

[Derek Barris]

Well, exactly. Being funded specifically would. But also being written into state curricula, which we know it's being played in schools. I don't know if any state has specifically said, like Texas, this is the curriculum. We know from the textbook industry that Texas sets the stage for the rest of the country. So if they were to come out and be like, okay, every public classroom needs to play these videos, I would argue that that would be state media as well.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Right?

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. Essentially it's the journey into being institutionalized. Right?

[Derek Barris]

Yes. Yeah. I also want to point out that we could do a year's worth of episodes on their programing. So deciding which clips to choose was difficult in terms of not choosing other options, but quite easy because they give us so much to work with. As I flag Prager U has gone hard at ICE protesters over the last few months, but I find this clip we're about to play rather funny. Not in a HAHA way, really, though. They publish weekly news updates where they gloss over four or five studio stories in one video. Here they play a clip from Melissa Straits interview with Tyler o', Neill, who they only flag as a journalist, but who's actually a senior editor at the right wing the Daily Signal, which was founded and run for a decade by the Heritage foundation, but which supposedly became independent in 2024. O' Neill's books include Making Hate Pay, the Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law center, and he regularly writes about gender ideology, critical race theory, and climate alarmism. Here they're talking about the LA ICE riots being organized by chirla, which is the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles. Can't have anything humane around immigrants, so let's see how well their journal holds up.

[Julian Walker]

Chirla is the nonprofit organization that organized the anti ICE riots in Los Angeles. Is it true that CIRLA received government funding both from the federal and from the state? So we are paying for an anti ice riot. It's not 100% proven that they orchestrated the protests.

[Matthew Rimsky]

They've been on the ground organizing protests.

[Julian Walker]

Against ICE for a while and now.

[Derek Barris]

That these protests are getting violent, they're.

[Julian Walker]

Saying we didn't organize this protest.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Meanwhile, you know, I've been talking with.

[Julian Walker]

Sources in the government who are saying like, well we they won't come out.

[Matthew Rimsky]

And say to me specifically that they.

[Julian Walker]

Have concrete proof that this group organized it, but they know the people on.

[Matthew Rimsky]

The ground who are doing these things and they're like, well, this claim doesn't pass muster.

[Derek Barris]

Wink wink, we know what's really going on. So he's framing the ICE protests, which we know were predominantly mostly nonviolent and just putting forward these vibes based accusations. While he repeatedly says we don't have proof of this, I also want to note that Charlotte does receive most of its funding from government grants. That does not specifically mean that government is funding protests. That is not how grants work. The nonprofit system is meant where you apply for them, you get the grants and then you the government is supposed to play a hands off role. You know, there are, there are stipulations like If. If. If churches were to endorse political candidates, although the Trump administration is trying to do away with that. But for the most part, every organization that gets a grant from the government pretty much has the gravity to do whatever they want, provided it's within the boundaries of what they're stated, what their contract says. And in this case, they are fighting for immigrant rights, which is well within the bounds of what they say they're doing.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, I've got their mission statement here. They say Cirla's mission is to achieve a just society fully inclusive of immigrants. Cirla was founded in 86 to advance the human and civil rights of immigrants and refugees. Chirla became a place for organizations and people who support human rights to work together for policies that advance justice and full inclusion for all immigrants. Cirla's first director was Father Luis Olivaro, the pastor at Our Lady Queen of Angels Church. As a leading voice of the sanctuary movement, Olivares used his church to protect refugees fleeing human rights abuses in Central America in the 1980s. Yeah, it's an interesting moral question, too, because you get the grants from one government, and then the government becomes an anti government, and they start attacking actually the system under which you were funded. Right. You applied to be able to protect immigrants from state violence, and here's state violence. And so, you know, sure, they're probably gonna lose their grants, and that's what obviously the straight interview is trying to do. But, yeah, why wouldn't they organize protections against illegal renditions? Like, what choice do they have? Also, you know, somebody's gonna have to prove. Or maybe they won't, because proof isn't really a thing anymore that they actually incited in response to state repression. I mean, I don't know, maybe they directly encouraged some of those aunties to come out in their shower shoes and, like, yell really loud in their pajamas when they were getting off of their fucking night shift and showing up because they had the Deicer app on their phone and they figured out, hey, if we go in and yell, maybe something will happen. Maybe we can de. Arrest some people.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, I mean, it's a total inversion of where the outrage should be, because these are people who are being brutalized and are just trying to fight back. Back out of. Out of. Just the raw instinct of, like, you're taking my family member or my community member away. Yeah.

[Matthew Rimsky]

In front of my face.

[Julian Walker]

In front of my face in a mask, brutally, with no warrant and not telling us who the hell you are. Oh, and then this is your taxpayer Money going towards illegal rioting or something.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah, well, let's listen to one of their kids shows called Cash Course. This one is titled Redistribution Does It Work? Here's the description of the video, which you might have guessed at from the title.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Life isn't equal and neither are incomes. But is government redistribution the solution? In this episode of Cash Course, teens dive into the economics of fairness with playful illustrations that show what happens when the government tries to spread wealth around. Learn how such policies affect incentives, the free market, and why redistribution often comes at a steep cost.

[Derek Barris]

All right, let's hear it. I clipped the three reasons why the host isn't into taxing wealthier citizens to help social services like food stamp programs and health care.

[Julian Walker]

Unfortunately, government redistribution comes at a high cost and it rarely changes the distribution.

[Derek Barris]

Of income in any lasting way.

[Julian Walker]

Unlike the fast moving market where buyers and sellers deal directly with each other.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Transfer payments require going through a third.

[Julian Walker]

Party, usually the government. And the government tends to be slower, more wasteful, and less efficient.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, I'll get right on that.

[Julian Walker]

The real downside, however, is that redistribution disincentivizes work. If people know they'll receive money regardless of how hard they work, or even if they don't work at all, they won't be motivated to improve or be more productive. And with no extra work rewards for.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Hard work, fewer people will put in.

[Julian Walker]

The time and effort to be surgeons, singers, or mathematicians in the first place. History also shows that raising taxes for redistribution programs risks wealthy individuals taking their productive capital elsewhere. If enough of them leave, an economy could suffer, losing important resources for everyone and leaving even less wealth to distribute.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Finally, many people think it's plain enough.

[Julian Walker]

Unfair of governments to take money from one group and give it to another.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Just as income inequality can lead to social unrest, heavy redistribution policies can trigger.

[Julian Walker]

Envy, division, and even, well, social unrest.

[Matthew Rimsky]

We didn't see the video here, but Derek, I'm assuming that the snores were coming from lazy layabouts who were getting government handouts. And they weren't. They weren't working. They're just snoring. They're on the couch.

[Derek Barris]

There are many characters in this. They have a woman and a man. You heard the civil servant saying, yeah, I'll get right on that. Then they have animations coming throughout. Again, it's a very produced kids type.

[Julian Walker]

Program and it's a mess. What a mess. That music, like the attempt to shove through this propaganda in oversimplified language while using that music, which is like, I don't know what supposed to be Lighthearted or to represent the kind of farce of government or something like that.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, it's. I don't know what the genre is, but it's kind of like the lounge jazz of many animated segments in Sesame Street. Oh, okay, yeah. Like it's that Rhodes piano. It's the. Or the organ or whatever. And B3. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right, yeah. And yeah, it's jazzy and it's moving along and it's telling you this is. If you're a kid, this is trustworthy information because, you know, it's not. It's hip. And we're kind of enjoying sharing this with you in a very fast paced fashion. And that's the thing, is that with Sesame street, things can be delivered in very short segments because it's like, what's the difference between near and and far? Like, basically, you'll hear that soundtrack, that music behind the. I don't know who the nutty Muppet is who's going near and then far, but the concepts are boiled down as if they are that simple. Right?

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, yeah. And that's why I say it's a mess, because in that kind of context, there's an educational thing going on where your brain is like learning about these sorts of factual distinctions and ideas that are age appropriate. To try to use that to shoehorn this kind of ridiculous propaganda in an indoctrinating way. It's just bizarre.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, it makes propaganda age appropriate is what it does. Right? That's the attempt. And the thing is that I don't think we have to say that they're just evidence free here. I mean, the basic evidence that we have from a lot of UBI pilot projects around the world actually shows the opposite of disincentivization, which is part of their main point. They're talking about speed and market fluidity beforehand, but they really concentrate on people won't want to work. And that's not what shows up when pilot projects in UBI are used in Finland and Kenya and India, Iran, Netherlands, Germany. Also, I didn't know until I looked a little bit farther that Alaska redistributes oil revenue. And that has not disincentivized anybody from pursuing their dreams in Alaska. What does disincentivize people is actually actual poverty that disincentivizes people from participating in society, exercising democratic rights and trying to make a life for themselves.

[Julian Walker]

It's pretty demoralizing. Yeah. I mean, I feel like also they're going to lump a whole lot of things into redistribution, like just having the Kind of strong social safety net that every other liberal democracy on the planet has. But America refuses to adopt. Just one thing here. I went and looked at the YouTube PragerU Kids channel and the most viewed video is clearly like created for kids with this very hip sort of guy who walks into the shot and he has this whole monologue where he says, have you ever felt that something was unfair? It doesn't feel good, does it? Like someone said you did something and you really didn't do it and you get punished for it. And he goes into this whole thing where he's kind of drawing the kids in like they know what it feels like to be unfair. And then he goes, but here's the thing, nobody cares. Nobody cares. You should get over it. You should stop expecting the world to be fair. And it was like really chilling to me how they did this kind of gradual self sufficiency and don't rely on anybody else and don't expect the world to be fair and just basically develop a thick skin kid.

[Matthew Rimsky]

But to do that in an inviting and sort of, that's a cool way to be will teach you how to be sort of borderline sociopathically unempathetic. And that's going to be fun. And actually here's the Hammond organ in the background too.

[Derek Barris]

I want to point out what you said, Matthew. If you ever want to really gauge the state of electoral politics in Alaska, go watch interviews with people when they suggest taking away that oil revenue tax break that they, that they get every year. And you'll, you'll quickly find that no politician can touch that.

[Matthew Rimsky]

You know, I didn't realize that was there. Do you know how long that's been running for? I mean, it's decades. Yeah. Right. So it's deeply embedded in society. That's like.

[Derek Barris]

Yes.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah. If you're in Alaska, that's your entitlement.

[Derek Barris]

Yes. And it's very interesting that they frame the idea of just having ultra millionaires and billionaires paying a fair tax rate as redistribution.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Right?

[Derek Barris]

Yeah. When all, when all people like Bernie Sanders have been saying or Elizabeth Warren have been saying is just tax them at a rate that's applicable to the rest of, you know, on par with the rest of society. That's it. No, no, you're stealing from them, Julian, to your point a moment ago about that sort of self reflection, the next video I think is really going to nail it. It's called multiculturalism. A bad idea. And I've clipped a few moments from it and strung them together. You'll get the idea, you're going to know the voice very quickly.

[Julian Walker]

Bad ideas never seem to die. Multiculturalism is one of them. And what, after all, is the problem with a society made up of different people all coming together to pull in the same direction? The answer is nothing. But that's not what multiculturalism means. It's not at all about pulling in the same direction. Multiculturalism is about people coming to the west and forming their own communities with their own rules and practices. In the eyes of multiculturalists, e pluribus unum, out of many one the great goal of America and until now, the great achievement of America. America is just another form of colonialism. It imposes American and Western values on the non western immigrants who come here. Immigrants therefore need to cling to the cultures of the countries from which they came and stay separate. The only way multi ethnic societies can work is if we all play by the same rules and live by the same basic moral values. People like me who come from other places must be encouraged to assimilate. Immigrants must learn the language, adapt to local customs, and become full citizens with both rights and responsibilities. The onus should be on the immigrant, not the host country. At my doctor's office in East London, I regularly encounter paperwork that's been translated into a dozen languages. That's not what assimilation looks like. Wow.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Oh, don't give people help as they are actually making the transition. When did he arrive in East London? He's Russian, right? Kissin?

[Julian Walker]

Yes.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rimsky]

All right. So is, did he grow up in London?

[Derek Barris]

Is that as a child? As a child? He talks about it later in the video about how when he was a child, his parent, he was speed of speaking age, I don't know, maybe 8, 10, something around that age. And he arrives there and he wanted to speak with his Russian friends in Russian and his parents yelled at him and said, you have to learn this language. We are now British. You have to accept that. So he's using his anecdote to apply to all of immigrants at that point.

[Matthew Rimsky]

It's incredible that he has lived in London for so long and he evidently hates it, right? That somehow.

[Julian Walker]

Well, he hates that London is no longer recognizably British.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, but that ship sailed a long time ago, Constantine. I mean, it's like the 1960s. Very, very strange view. And he just sounds like a Borg here. Like multiculturalism is irrelevant. Accommodating immigrant needs is irrelevant.

[Derek Barris]

His brand is hatred disguised as intellectualism. I mean, that's what he's built it up as. And he is, he is a Smart dude. But, like, when it gets to ethnic issues and trans issues, I should say, because his Oxford Union speech, he just, for no reason, took digs at trans people. So that. That is his brand. He realized that that contrarian podcast space is where he makes his bread and butter now.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. And he says a lot of things where. Where you're just sort of like, but wait, how would that work? Are you gonna force people to assimilate and adopt the local customs and speak the language? Is there gonna be some penalty if they're not becoming English enough for you?

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, I think, unless you're saying, I'm going to devote X amount of resources to welcoming educationally and administratively the immigrant population, what you're really saying is the fact that you haven't changed enough is hateful to me. Right.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah.

[Julian Walker]

And we all have to be operating from the same moral values. Like, I'm not really sure.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, right. As if we don't have laws. As if we don't actually have laws.

[Julian Walker]

Exactly, exactly. People are. They're subject to the laws of the country they're in. So what are you talking about?

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah.

[Julian Walker]

Right.

[Derek Barris]

My great grandmother came from Hungary. Never spoke a word of English in her entire life. All of her children, some of whom were born in America, America did. And they were able to because New Brunswick at the time had the largest Hungarian population in the world outside of Hungary. There. There was a. And there still is. There's a strong Hungarian community there where people speak that very hard language.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah.

[Derek Barris]

And she was able to survive, but had four children who then started to assimilate, which is how the process goes. And so when someone like kissing flattens it and just basically says, okay, if you're not going to learn, get the out. It's humiliating to the people who, as you flag Matthew, are trying to figure it out in a new land for whatever reasons they came here for, it's.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Dehumanizing to the people like your grandparent, who didn't have to, because. Well, I mean, it might have had some advantages if they had been able to do that more fluidly, but they were also surrounded by a community that was flourishing. Right. What was the need? They were functional. They were able to pay taxes, they were able to communicate with their society. You know, what's the deal?

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. And then this is the, the process of immigration, as I've observed it is that it just seems like with each generation you have more of a. Of a code switching that happens. Right. The second generation immigrant kids are going to be able to speak their language. And observe their customs and interact with their. With their parents and their grandparents who maybe come over as well and sort of teach them about the local culture. And then when they go to school, they sound like they're. They're from the region and they understand the slang and they're, you know, they're involved in that way of being. It's the. It's a sort of normal process.

[Derek Barris]

Let's do one more. I posted this on our Instagram feed last week, but it's. It's just too good not to share here. In case you're not following us on social media for some reason. It's for. Also from one of Prageru's kids shows, and it features an animated Christopher Columbus.

[Julian Walker]

Slavery is as old as time and.

[Derek Barris]

Has taken place in every corner of the world, even amongst the people I just left.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Being taken as a slave is better than being killed. No?

[Julian Walker]

Before you judge, you must ask yourself, what did the culture and society at.

[Matthew Rimsky]

The time treat as no big deal?

[Julian Walker]

Oh, my God, it's just so incredible. The music, the. The appeal to ancient authority, the normalizing of slear is no big deal.

[Derek Barris]

I know it's a kid show, but the same week that I posted that clip. And we'll get to our bonus clip now. Jillian Michaels. Who? Jillian, you and I are going to cover next week extensively for the Biggest Loser docu series. She went on CNN for a roundtable to discuss the Smithsonian museum and the changes that are happening or the supposed racism that is there. She's referencing Trump in this clip.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah.

[Derek Barris]

Let's listen to her argument. It's not from Prageru to clear, but I feel like she might be trying out to be a host on the network.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Have you looked at some of the things. Yeah. Slavery was a bad thing that we should talk about. Okay. Like, he forget he's not whitewashing slavery. So he's not. He's not.

[Derek Barris]

No.

[Julian Walker]

Okay.

[Derek Barris]

He's not. And you cannot tie imperialism and racism.

[Julian Walker]

And slavery to just one race, which is pretty much what every single exhibit does.

[Matthew Rimsky]

But let's talk about the fact that when you. I mean, slavery in America was Only less than 2% of white Americans own slaves, but it was a system of white supremacy. You know, slavery is thousands of years old. White people were slave owners in America. First race text.

[Derek Barris]

I didn't realize this is controversial.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, what's controversial?

[Julian Walker]

I'm very surprised.

[Matthew Rimsky]

This is an extraordinary exercise in historical racism. I'm really struggling with racism.

[Julian Walker]

Do you realize that, Gillian?

[Matthew Rimsky]

I'm surprised that you're trying to litigate.

[Derek Barris]

Who was the beneficiary of slavery.

[Matthew Rimsky]

And I'm not. What I'm trying to tell you is.

[Julian Walker]

The context of America, American history.

[Matthew Rimsky]

In the context of American history, what are you saying is incorrect by saying.

[Julian Walker]

That it was white people oppressing black people? Every single thing is like, oh no, no, no, this is all because white people bad. And that's just not the truth. It's amazing because she's referencing some historically true things about the ubiquity of slavery and the sort of cross cultural reality of slavery across history street. But she's using it as a way to try to minimize the reality of the transatlantic slave trade and what happened in the United States to black people, which is just appalling.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Well, I think it's a position that she needs to take and those in her camp need to take to shut down any contemporary conversation about structural or collective responsibility, especially reparations, which is looming in many discourses. And I think they need to say it because, well, I think they need to say it was both universally accepted or no big deal. That's the Columbus cartoon, but also limited in practice to a small number of psychopaths who are long dead and whose actions don't impact anyone anymore. They need to forget that the original economic power of the country was built on that slave labor. If they don't keep that in mind, if that's not, not sort of like if they can erase that, then they're in the clear with regard to contemporary.

[Derek Barris]

Responsibilities and they need to battle DEI at every turn because of that. Because they either don't realize or they're not willing to admit. There's a difference between being someone who is white and not feeling guilty, but trying to make the best out of society today, which is probably a lot of white people, and understanding the structural, the infrastructure, literal infrastructure that's been created because of that slave labor and still perpetuates itself to today. Which is why no one in Maha talks about the social determinants of health, because you have to face that. So rather than actually attack it and start to understand those long standing problems, much easier to make it seem like, oh, you're just saying white people are bad when that's never really been the argument.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, and then this whole bullshit about just 2% of the white population owns slaves, you can go and fact check this. Once you corre the data by removing the 18 states that did not have slavery, and then once you subtract the actual slaves from the total population that you're basing that percentage on you end up with a higher percentage. It's probably more like something 6 or 7 or 8% of whites in those states who own slaves themselves. And then when you look at the 1860 census, you find that it's actually over 30% of families in the Confederacies. Right. Because.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah, so. So, right. So while women and children would not technically own slaves, they would inherit them as property or they would inherit the fruits of their labor or. Yeah. The family's benefit.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. Obviously the family is living with slaves, serving them in a multitude of different ways that enrich them over time. So you get a much more relevant picture. It's also this deceptive use of statistics anyway, because no matter the number of whites who technically owned slaves, the important number is that there are around 4 million enslaved blacks in the United States in 1860. And we'll have stuff in the show notes about that. United Healthcare nurse Crystal checked in on a patient. We do a routine call after surgery and I could tell in her voice that she was struggling. Crystal knew she needed help. I knew that this is very serious. This is like septic, this is life threatening.

[Matthew Rimsky]

And she knew just what to do.

[Julian Walker]

And I called the hospital and said she's coming in. Here are her labs and got her.

[Matthew Rimsky]

The help she needed.

[Julian Walker]

I see my role at UnitedHealthcare as a life saving role.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Hear more stories like [e-mail] benefits, features.

[Julian Walker]

And or devices vary by plan.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Area limitation and exclusions apply.

[Julian Walker]

They say to only bring what you can carry. So with the all new 2025 Ford Expedition Tremor, bring a lot like three dirt bikes, a few tents, an entire crew ready to make memories, a panoramic 24 inch display and the confidence to push your limits. The all new 2025 Ford Expedition Tremor. Always consult the owner's manual before upward driving.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Know your terrain and trail difficulty and.

[Julian Walker]

Use appropriate safety gear. Max payload varies based on accessories, vehicle configuration.

[Matthew Rimsky]

See label and door jam for carrying.

[Julian Walker]

Capacity of a specific vehicle. Always properly secure cargo at Capella University.

[Derek Barris]

Learning online doesn't mean learning alone.

[Matthew Rimsky]

You'll get support from people who care.

[Julian Walker]

About your success, like your enrollment specialist.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach.

[Julian Walker]

Who'S with you throughout your entire program. Plus career coaches are available to help.

[Matthew Rimsky]

You navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

[Julian Walker]

Learn [e-mail].

[Matthew Rimsky]

So in the background of this entire episode, I think think we can hear the ruffling of the feathers of Big Bird. And so I want to do some reflections on what Prageru Kids is replacing, and I want to start back. On Thanksgiving Day, 1983, Sesame street aired Farewell Mr. Hooper to help the 10 million kids who watch the show reflect on the death of the old general store shopkeeper, played by a guy named Will Lee. Lee had died the previous December of a heart attack at the age of 74 and had filmed a backlog of episodes, so the show didn't have to reckon with his absence on set right away. They had time to debate and consult with child psychologists about the best approach, because the one thing they knew that they wanted to be was honest. They weren't going to ignore the death. They weren't going to try to recast Mr. Hooper, who was irreplaceable. And so they had to do what the best adults always do, which is they had to engage with honesty and vulnerability. The lead writer, Norman Stiles, recalls that the team was advised that the things children between 3 and 5 need to know about death is that it's permanent, that every emotion it brings up is okay, and that all the ancient questions about what happens to a person after, after death could be answered honestly, as in, they live on inside those who love them. And so, listener, I want you to put a pin in those lessons because I'm going to argue that they are intolerable to the fearful, controlling, fascist mind. And I think they're also lessons that we can relearn now as so many things die around us. So the team decided to lead Big Bird through this moment because he's the proxy child of the show and the guy who played played Big Bird, Carol Spinney had created that idea early on, after the first few episodes didn't feel quite right. He played Big Bird as kind of like a gawky, awkward, goofy character. And then he went to the director and he said, I think we should play this bird like he's five years old and like he's learning along with the viewers. And that began the sort of, sort of technique of Big Bird constantly breaking the fourth wall and sort of inviting the viewer into whatever scene was being played out. And so early in this Thanksgiving Day episode, Big Bird is doing a funny five year old walk. He's walking backwards, he's got his head down between his orange legs, and he's peering up between his legs at Gordon, who asks him, why are you walking like that? And Big Bird's answer is just because, which is a pretty typical five year old answer. Then later, the whole cast is seated at a long table in the street, kind of like Thanksgiving. And Big Bird enters cheerfully with some cartoony portraits he's made of everyone as presents because he kind of wants to join the adults. And they get to Mr. Hooper and he shows his picture and everyone praises it. And Big Bird says, well, I can't wait to give it to him. And then silence falls. And then one by one, Luis, Maria, Susan, David and Bob all tell Big Bird that the old man has died. And then they hold the emotions over the next five, six minutes, it's a long scene that Big Bird goes through. And then it ends with this. He's never coming back.

[Julian Walker]

Never. No.

[Derek Barris]

Oh, I don't understand.

[Matthew Rimsky]

You know, everything was just fine.

[Derek Barris]

Why does it have to be this way?

[Matthew Rimsky]

Give me one good reason.

[Julian Walker]

Big Bird.

[Matthew Rimsky]

It has to be this way because. Just because. Just because. Oh, you know, I'm gonna miss you, Mr. Looper. That's Hooper, Big Bird.

[Julian Walker]

Maybe.

[Matthew Rimsky]

The psychologist also said that if you can pull an answer from the child's own vocabulary or reasoning out at that moment, that's really good, too, because that's what Gordon does. I don't think there's a more perfect moment in children's media, maybe television, ever. And every piece of insight and care that made that happen. So the development time, the appeal to psychological expertise, the tenderness, the fact that six out of seven cast members on that stage comforting the awkward child are black and brown. And then the patience with the subject matter and the child viewer, all of it is anathema to right wing politics based in anxiety and resentment and which simmers towards fascism.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. It also manages to gently sidestep the. Any religious metaphysics that would sort of occlude the feelings of what's really going on.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah. And that's why I thought I would find blowback to this. And I combed the world to find it from the right, specifically on that point, like, oh, they've given us an atheist answer, and the blowback isn't there because maybe that's how good it was. Maybe it was one of those rare events that transcended politics. I would argue, though, that the Children's Television Work Workshop couldn't have gotten to that moment without all of the radical and creative thinking that made it inevitable that Trump would ultimately cut that 1.1 billion in federal funds. So I think it's hard to overestimate the quality of the programming in general put out by PBS dating back to the late 60s. So, I mean, Mr. Rogers neighborhood electric company Masterpiece Theater, EPIC documentaries from Ken Burns, investigations from Frontline, science exploration with Nova, Bill Moyers, Kenneth Clark's civilization, McNeil lair NewsHour. And then the political programming ran the gamut from Buckley's Firing Line, Take it or Leave it to Black Journal and Soul. Now, full disclosure, as a leftist, I'm part of a long line of folks who find or found PBS's like liberal commitment to balance a little bit too vulnerable to the both sidesing view from nowhere where which often intensifies as it fights to retain public funds. And it will do so usually by capitulating to the GOP or by increasing dependence on corporate sponsorships. And that's what happened, actually, in many cases. This show brought to you by Chevron, Merck, ExxonMobil, IBM, Boeing and Dupont. So all that said, however, I would give anything to have it all back because it was a huge social good overall, especially for rural and inner city citizens. It's hard for me to see the political moment that gave PBS its altruistic thrust as more than a temporary concession, however, from capital during a period of post war prosperity where there were these ideals of social cohesion and education and inclusive cultural literacy, all seen as salutary signs of positive governmental potential and also, also frankly, a form of soft power against the Soviets, who we were told had no culture at all. And maybe it's inevitable that we see this come to a close, that it can't really last for long before neoliberalism puts downward pressure on public spending and the idea that public arts funding is out of touch. Or there are advocates for smaller government pushing for privatization and corporate sponsorships. And then we have the culture war front where Rush Limbaugh and everybody else is out there every day in the 80s and 90s yelling about our taxes, funding the gays, and pushing the idea that government can't be trusted to do anything, least of all influence your kids. So now the hammer has fully come down. Julian, at the opening you talked about how, you know, they've been trying to do this for decades. Well, you know, anybody could have seen this coming. Going back to 1972, Nixon issued what was called the Archie Bunker veto against a PBS funding bill. He argued that public television had become a centralized fourth network with ties to the liberal Eastern establishment. There were complaints about high salaries at pbs. There were accusations of a kind of failed social engineering. There were also, I think, relevant questions of relevance and popularity, given that PBS never captured more than 2% of the overall TV market except for Sesame Street. Now there's this brief reprieve under Carter, whose I think sweaters rhymed with the cardigans in Mr. Rogers wardrobe. But then Reagan and Bush carried the torch to burn it down, railing against shows like PBS's Vietnam a television History, which they denounced as communist propaganda. And then an organization called Accuracy in Media, which I think we could call a spiritual ancestor to Prageru, was formed in 1969 specifically to counter that docu series, which was eight parts and it's reporting on Vietnam. And they produced a rebuttal film to the series and it aired on PBS for balance. Then comes Newt Gingrich, Family Research Council, and remember Bob dynamic dole. In 1992, he accused PBS supporters of hiding behind Big Bird, Mr. Rogers and Masterpiece Theater to shovel out funding for gay and lesbian shows. All these doom and gloom reports about what's wrong with America and all the other liberal cheerleading we see on public television, unquote with Clinton and a little bit more so with Obama. There is an attempt to protect and bolster the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and PBS a little bit more against the onslaught through these very modest increases in funding. But the headwinds are very strong because conservatives, I think, have always known that public broadcasting means public education. It means inclusivity. It has to. It means a potentially radical increase in democracy and equality. So they had good reason to fear Pete Seeger being a repeated guest on Sesame Street. They weren't wrong that there was a progressive agenda on this show. They were open. The producers were open about. Yeah, we're setting it in inner city New York and we are specifically trying to reach black kids. They had reason to be a little bit worried about Jesse Jackson with a six inch fro and this huge MLK Jr gold medallion swinging from his neck, leading 50 kids in a call and response. I don't know if you guys have heard this, but listen to this.

[Julian Walker]

I am somebody, Somebody.

[Matthew Rimsky]

I am, I am somebody, Somebody. I may be poor, I may be poor But I am somebody, Somebody. I may be young But I am somebody, Somebody. I may be on welfare But I am somebody.

[Derek Barris]

I may be small, I may be.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Small But I am. But I am somebody, Somebody.

[Julian Walker]

I may make a mistake.

[Matthew Rimsky]

I may make a mistake But I am somebody. My clothes are different.

[Julian Walker]

My clothes are different. My face is different. My face is different.

[Matthew Rimsky]

My hair is different. My hair is different But I am.

[Julian Walker]

But I am somebody. I am black.

[Matthew Rimsky]

I am black, brown, brown, white. I speak a different language. But I must be respected.

[Julian Walker]

Protected, never rejected.

[Matthew Rimsky]

I am God's child. I am, I am somebody. Give yourself a big hand.

[Julian Walker]

Matthew. You're doing such a good job of, like, running down all of the consistent conservative opposition and attempts to get rid of this kind of stuff. And yet it survived decade after decade. And yet, as someone who is not from North America, that is the kind of media, the kinds. Those kinds of moments, those kinds of clips, that kind of messaging, that for a good chunk of time in the late 20th century, a lot of people around the world associated with American values in a very polite, positive way.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Yeah. Farewell, Mr. Hooper aired in 1983, and that's the same year that Donald Trump opened Trump Tower. And then in 1994, they made fun of him explicitly. Here's Joe Pesci playing Ronald Grump. Mr. Grump, we want to talk to you about your plans for Sesame Street.

[Julian Walker]

My plans? See for yourself. Out of the ruins of Sesame street rises the gleaming tower of grump. Where's 123 Sesame Street? I'm glad you asked that. It is now a luxurious boutique called.

[Derek Barris]

If you have to ask, you cannot afford it.

[Julian Walker]

Mr. Grump, we don't think you really understand what you're destroying.

[Derek Barris]

No, Mr. Grump, Sesame street is more.

[Julian Walker]

Valuable than any boutique. Yeah, not according to my figures.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Mr. Grumpy, Elmo knows even a big crop like you will melt into a mushy puddle when Elmo tells you about our little street.

[Julian Walker]

And Elmo wants to keep his fur just where it is.

[Matthew Rimsky]

There you go.

[Julian Walker]

On Elmo. Yeah, right next to Whoopee.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Aw, I like that, too, Elmo.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. I am deeply and profoundly, yes, disgusted. There's one thing I did despise.

[Derek Barris]

Its cheap sentiment.

[Julian Walker]

Hugs, Kitty.

[Derek Barris]

Television.

[Julian Walker]

Cute furry animals. What about cute, furry monsters? Are you people still here?

[Matthew Rimsky]

Get packing.

[Julian Walker]

Get packing.

[Matthew Rimsky]

Wow. Amazing.

[Derek Barris]

Dark prophecy.

[Matthew Rimsky]

So, for those of us not yet running from ice in the streets, I think a lot of us are in the position of maybe feeling like Big Bird, wondering What happened to Mr. Hooper of the old country, who represents, you know, solid eldership in an integrated, sharing neighborhood where even Oscar the Grouch was loved and taken care of. But I want to end by saying I don't think that neighborhood is dead, because, you know, we've got the Mamdani campaign, which in many ways, I think is also. I mean, Prageru is doing it, but Mamdani is also grabbing some of the Sesame street aesthetics, and, you know, they're killing it with millennials and Gen Z. I think if they got the rights for Sunny Days to run on his ads, he'd also light up a bunch of boomers and Gen Xers as well, because I think they would be reminded that, you know, just like 40 years ago, the life of the street is still at war against the fragile. Trump Towers sat.