Podcast Summary: Conspirituality — Episode 279: "They’re Shooting the Priests"

Date: October 16, 2025
Hosts: Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, Julian Walker
Main Theme: The collision of spiritual/religious resistance and authoritarian crackdowns, as exemplified by ICE violence against clergy and the broader dynamics of conspirituality, nationalism, and U.S. politics.

Episode Overview

This episode investigates the alarming escalation of U.S. federal force, namely by ICE, against clergy protesting on behalf of immigrants—most graphically, the shooting of a priest in Chicago with pepper balls. Through historical, social, and spiritual lenses, the hosts unravel the meaning of these attacks, the shifting alliances between religion and fascist (or anti-fascist) forces, and the organizing power embedded in faith communities. The conversation juxtaposes earnest, on-the-ground activism against a backdrop of meme-ified conspirituality, revealing how spiritual traditions are weaponized, corrupted, or redeemed in times of national crisis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. ICE Violence Against Clergy (02:03–06:47; 41:55–53:00)

• Incident Highlight: In Chicago, Reverend David Black was shot multiple times in the head, face, and body with pepper balls by ICE agents while leading a prayer protest. He described hearing agents laugh while firing.
  • "He could hear the shooters laughing as they did it. Thereafter, ICE came out of the building in force and doused the protesters in tear gas. We've honed in on this disturbing moment to ask if what we've seen so far had not crossed a red line for the American public." — Matthew, 02:24
• Discussion: The symbolic act of shooting clergy—especially while praying—marks a disturbing escalation possibly designed to intimidate and delegitimize protest.
• Clergy as Organizers: Behind every priest or nun stand hundreds of parishioners, making attacks on clergy not just symbolic but potentially explosive in mobilizing community resistance.

2. Religion as Protector vs. Collaborator (03:39–06:47; 40:46–41:55)

• Antifa vs. Clergy: Clergy-led protests may present a broader threat to oppressive systems, given how many people identify with traditional religious institutions compared to anti-fascist groups.
• Historical "Effeminacy" Trope: Violence toward religious figures may be partly rationalized by dismissing clergy as weak or effeminate—an echo of fascist machismo.

3. Portland vs. Chicago: The Role of Satire and Privilege (06:47–11:27)

• Portland's Satirical Resistance: Reverend Dr. Chuck Curry and other Portanders use mockery and costumes (frogs, bears, unicorns) to undermine ICE and right-wing framing of the city as a "war zone."
  • "'Portland is not a hellscape... If the National Guard can help with alphabetizing our free libraries, fine. But unless they're here to do that, I don't think we need help.'" — Rev. Chuck Curry (clip), 06:58
• Privilege and Protest: Portland’s predominantly white demographics afford it a form of protest that’s less dangerous (for now), and the hosts note legacy impacts of Oregon’s racist constitution.
• Contrast: In Chicago, direct violence and large-scale detentions target Black and brown communities.

4. Clergy's Direct Action and Legal Strategies (41:55–46:53)

• Biblical Framing: Protesters, especially clergy, invoke biblical commandments to "welcome the stranger" and protect the vulnerable.
• Legal Action: Lawsuits are being filed based on First and Fourth Amendment protections and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, arguing that targeting clergy is religious discrimination.
• Tactics: Clergy de-escalate conflicts by singing hymns and forming prayer vigils directly in the path of ICE operations.

5. Christian Nationalism, Fascism, and Opportunistic Religion (19:06–39:27)

• Historical Parallels: The hosts trace how fascist regimes (Italy, Germany, Spain) both partnered with and persecuted religious institutions for convenience, power, or ideology.
• MAGA & “Militant Woo”: The contemporary collision of conspiracy, pseudo-science, and spirituality mirrors fascist manipulations of faith, with today's anti-vax/alt-wellness influencers frequently invoking religious themes for validation and profit.
  • “A fascist movement needs a militant woo wing that has to be cordoned off from the top dogs because it’s too volatile… the militant woosters provide cover.” — Matthew, 24:52
• The New Age/Wellness Pipeline: Anti-vaxx sentiment historically intertwines with spiritual and religious arguments that “playing God” is sinful.

6. Church as Social Infrastructure vs. Neoliberal Wellness (28:14–30:08)

• Organizing Power: Unlike the fragmented and transactional world of alternative wellness, churches offer tangible social services and communal spaces, which can be a potent organizing force against oppression.
  • "The social service support of churches large and small... is just not part of what the infrastructure of wellness offers." — Matthew, 29:26

7. Liberation Theology and the Papacy (47:00–55:37)

• Liberation Theology's Resurgence: David Inczocs, a Jesuit priest, is seen as emblematic of faith-led liberation—leading communion protests, referencing Marxist theology, and channeling direct solidarity with the oppressed.
• Papal Messaging: Newly inaugurated Pope Leo’s first exhortation, Dilexite, is openly liberation-theological and anti-capitalist, marking a dramatic shift from the Vatican:
  • "Our response to the challenges posed by contemporary migration can be summed up in four verbs: Welcome, protect, promote, and integrate... the church must continue to denounce the dictatorship of an economy that kills." — Pope Leo (quoted), 54:14–55:35
• Historical Reversal: In past eras, radical Catholics like Daniel Berrigan were marginalized or abandoned by the church; today, at least for now, the Vatican appears to back faith-based resistance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clergy as Protesters:
  “Behind every surplus and stole stands dozens or maybe even hundreds of parishioners.” — Matthew, 03:39

• Portland Satire:
  “If the National Guard can help alphabetize books or do the Dewey decimal system, I don’t think we really need any help. But thanks anyway.” — Rev. Chuck Curry (clip), 06:58

• Mockery as Superpower:
  "Mockery is our superpower and it’s working to great effect online." — Derek, 07:40

• On Law and Religion:
  “People usually perceive the First Amendment protects the government from religion, but in reality, it was probably more written to protect religion from the government.” — (paraphrased) Matthew, 43:09

• Liberation Theology in Action:
  “The detention of migrants is evil, and the deportation of migrants is evil. This evil is unacceptable in the eyes of our loving God.” — Fr. David Inczocs, 50:17

• On Papal Anti-Capitalism:
  “Church must continue to denounce the dictatorship of an economy that kills... A new tyranny is being born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules.” — Pope Leo (exhortation quoted), 55:03

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:03] — Start of show’s main topic: ICE violence, clergy, and protest framing
• [03:39] — Historical framing of clergy’s organizing power vs. anti-fascist street protestors
• [06:47] — Reverend Dr. Chuck Curry’s satirical account of Portland’s “hellscape”
• [13:47] — Clergy-led activism and progressive church messaging in Portland
• [19:06–39:27] — Comparative authoritarian histories: Fascism, religion, and the weaponization of faith
• [41:55–46:53] — On-the-ground actions by clergy, legal strategies, and specific accounts of violence
• [50:17] — Fr. David Inczocs’ speech at the Chicago ICE protest
• [54:14] — Quoting Pope Leo’s exhortation “Dilexite” and discussion of liberation theology

Overall Tone & Takeaways

Tone:
A sobering, incisive, at times wryly humorous critique, balancing scholarly analysis with personal anecdotes and poignant clips from the front lines.

Core Message:
Attacks on clergy during protest signal a new, dangerous threshold in authoritarian overreach—yet faith communities present a formidable organizing counterweight. The organizing traditions, legal infrastructure, and living theology within religious communities (especially as expressed in liberation theology and current papal statements) offer resistance that blends the spiritual with the political, challenging both state violence and the opportunism of conspirituality-driven influencers.

For Further Listening & Action

• Episodes on Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the historical relationship between fascism and the church (referenced in segment, 45:12)
• Next brief covering CIA’s efforts to undermine liberation theology in Latin America

This episode provides a crucial, historically anchored understanding for anyone concerned with the intersections of faith, protest, and authoritarianism in contemporary America.