Bonus Sample: How To Talk To Your Son About Fascism (Pt 2)

Summary

Conspirituality Podcast Summary: Bonus Sample Episode - "How To Talk To Your Son About Fascism (Pt 2)"

Release Date: April 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this bonus episode of the Conspirituality podcast, hosts Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, and Julian Walker delve into the critical topic of addressing fascist ideologies with the younger generation. The episode features a compelling conversation between host Matthew Remsky and guest Craig Johnson, Ph.D., a historian from the University of California, Berkeley, and the creator of the "15 Minutes of Fascism" podcast and YouTube channel. Johnson is also the author of How to Talk to Your Son About Fascism, a guide aimed at helping parents and educators steer young men away from extreme right-wing influences.

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Understanding the Agency of Youth in Political Choices

The discussion begins with an exploration of the paradox surrounding young people's engagement with fascist ideologies. Johnson emphasizes the delicate balance between recognizing children’s agency in making political choices and acknowledging the manipulative tactics that infringe upon their autonomy.

Matthew Remsky introduces the conversation by highlighting the infectious nature of right-wing content online, comparing it to a virus that subtly recruits young minds without their conscious consent.

[00:58] Craig Johnson: "This is a very deep philosophical issue to start with. How do we theorize the agency of kids and sons for this book?"

Johnson responds by framing the central question of his book: "How do you stop someone from believing something?" He underscores the complexity of addressing deeply ingrained political beliefs, especially when they are propagated subtly to young individuals.

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Fascist Propaganda Targeting Youth

Johnson sheds light on the strategic approaches used by fascist groups to attract young people. He explains how these groups often disguise their extremist messages within topics that naturally interest youth, such as video games, sports, and popular media.

[03:02] Craig Johnson: "A lot of this stuff works. That's how a lot of this propaganda, fascist propaganda is intentionally organized. This is why it uses Trojan horses like Gamergate or complaining about 'woke hiring' in Disney or Marvel movies."

By leveraging the interests of 10 to 20-year-olds, fascist propagandists create a bridge to engage them in more significant ideological discussions. This method makes the recruitment process less overt and more relatable to the target audience.

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Case Study: The Daily Stormer and Targeted Propaganda

Johnson references specific examples to illustrate his points, notably mentioning Andrew Anglin, the creator of the Daily Stormer, a prominent neo-Nazi website in the United States. Anglin openly states his intention to target young individuals with fascist propaganda, aiming to normalize extremist beliefs through humor and memes.

[03:53] Craig Johnson: "When I make fascist propaganda, I'm going after 10-year-olds. That's my goal is to get them to make fascist jokes and to think about fascist things and to use fascist memes."

This candid admission by Anglin exemplifies the calculated nature of fascist propaganda campaigns, designed to infiltrate and influence the political leanings of impressionable youth.

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Intervention Strategies for Parents and Educators

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on practical strategies for parents and educators to intervene when they observe young individuals engaging with right-wing content online. Johnson advocates for a nuanced approach that emphasizes open dialogue and critical thinking rather than confrontation.

[05:54] Craig Johnson: "What I can do is I can talk to you about the facts behind that belief. I can talk to you about where that propaganda came from. I can talk to you about what those people want you to do, why it's in their interests and not yours."

Johnson stresses the importance of addressing the underlying facts and motivations behind fascist ideologies. By educating young individuals about the origins and objectives of such propaganda, adults can empower them to make informed decisions and resist manipulative influences.

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Philosophical Underpinnings of Propaganda and Agency

The conversation delves into the theoretical aspects of propaganda and its impact on individual agency. Johnson highlights that while adults are not typically engaged in deep political analysis of the messages they receive, children are even less likely to critically assess the content they encounter online.

[02:29] Craig Johnson: "Propaganda has its own entire theoretical universe about how do you think about the agency of people who experience propaganda."

This insight underscores the necessity of developing intervention methods that account for the psychological and social dynamics at play when combating the spread of extremist ideologies among youth.

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Conclusion

In this insightful episode, Craig Johnson provides valuable perspectives on the mechanisms through which fascist ideologies infiltrate the minds of young individuals and offers actionable strategies for parents and educators to counteract these influences. By fostering open communication and critical thinking, adults can play a pivotal role in guiding the younger generation away from extremist paths.

Conspirituality continues to shed light on the complex interplay between conspiracy theories, spirituality, and extremist movements, offering listeners the tools and knowledge needed to navigate and challenge these pervasive influences in today’s society.

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Notable Quotes:

• Craig Johnson [00:58]: "How do you stop someone from believing something?"
• Craig Johnson [03:02]: "That's why it uses Trojan horses like Gamergate or complaining about 'woke hiring' in Disney or Marvel movies."
• Craig Johnson [03:53]: "When I make fascist propaganda, I'm going after 10-year-olds."
• Craig Johnson [05:54]: "What I can do is I can talk to you about the facts behind that belief."

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For more insights and comprehensive discussions, visit patreon.com/conspirituality or access all main feed episodes ad-free, along with four years of bonus content.

Transcript

[Matthew Remsky]

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Conspirituality, where we investigate the intersection of conspiracy theories and spiritual influence to uncover cult pseudoscience and authoritarian extremism. In other words, your daily newsfeed. I'm Matthew Remsky. We are on Instagram and threads conspiritualitypod, and you can access all of our episodes ad free, plus our Monday bonus episodes on Patreon, or just the bonus episodes on Apple subscriptions. So I want to welcome back Craig Johnson, Ph.D. in history from the University of California, Berkeley, and the host of the 15 Minutes of Fascism podcast and YouTube channel covering the global rise of the radical right. He's the author of how to Talk to youo Son about Fascism, a guide for parents and educators on keeping young men out of the extreme right wing. We had a great conversation that we started on the Saturday bonus, or the Saturday brief, rather. And he's back with me on Monday. Hello, Craig. Thank you.

[Craig Johnson]

Hey. And thanks for having me back.

[Matthew Remsky]

Okay, so we're gonna talk about strategies today. Your book is called how to talk to your son about Fascism. And so I wanna get right to that, but I wanna sort of pick up where we left off because, you know, we were looking at this question of fascism being a political choice. And this brings up the issue of the agency of children, right? What kinds of choices are they making versus made for them? And you know, what happens when we intervene because, you know, about mediation or intervening when we see that a kid is getting into right wing content online. And I think the premise there is that right wing content is kind of infectious, right? It is a little bit like a virus. And so I was pointing out that there's kind of a paradox in this project that, you know, we want to describe. We need to describe fascism as a political choice that young people are not choosing, but that also that they're being exposed to, you know, not, you know, according to their will and not through their consent. They're being recruited not because they necessarily want to go that way, but because they're having their buttons pushed. So this is a very deep philosophical issue to start with. How, how do we theorize, or how did you theorize the agency of kids and sons for this book?

[Craig Johnson]

That's a. That's a big one to dive right into. But I'm very glad to. Yeah, the. The central question of the book is how do you stop someone from believing something?

[Matthew Remsky]

Right?

[Craig Johnson]

And that's especially hard with a kid and especially hard when it comes to kids in politics. Because one of the appeals of a lot of the Extremely online, but also in person appeals of fascism and frankly many other radical political projects is that it might be the first time that a young person has been approached as an adult.

[Matthew Remsky]

Right.

[Craig Johnson]

Somebody is get, somebody is coming to them and saying like this is about the real world and I'm treating you as an adult, talking to you about real problems that you know, previously you might not have really thought about. Like that's how a lot of this stuff works. That's how a lot of this propaganda, fascist propaganda is intentionally organized. This is why it uses Trojan horses like Gamergate or complaining about quote unquote woke hiring in Disney or Marvel movies or something like that. Because they know that 10 to 20 year olds come into the conversation probably caring about video games or sports or cars or you know, big TV shows and movies and stuff. Like those are things that they can probably assume that a lot of these kids are going to care about. And you use those things in order to get them to care about the thing that you really want them to care about.

[Matthew Remsky]

Right.

[Craig Johnson]

This is one of those instances where I, I use, not as an example, but I, I use the actions and speech of the people who are writing this propaganda as a, as a jumping off point for how we need to think about it. So one of the few people that I identify in this book as a specific fascist, because I wrote, I started drafting the book in 2023, I knew that it was going to be any particular references that I made were going to be super outdated by the time it came out. Right. But one of the particular references I do make is to an online poster whose last name is Anglin. Yeah, Anglin made the, created the Daily Stormer, which is the, the biggest neo Nazi web page in the United States. And he is on record just saying like, hey, when I make fascist propaganda, I'm going after 10 year olds. That's my goal is to get them to make fascist jokes and to think about fascist things and to use fascist memes. He is thinking about this as a propaganda war. And so propaganda, it's by itself, you know, propaganda has its own entire like theoretical universe about how do you think about the agency of people who experience propaganda. I think that this is a, this is a much bigger political question. It's like obviously we know that most people, full adults, even extremely educated, very politically self actualized adults are not walking around deeply and personally probing and considering all the political messages that they receive for children, we know that that's even less so. They might not even really understand that they are engaging in A political question, right? And so part of what I think, the intervention that a parent can do and part of how I conceptualize this intervention is by characterizing that way with your kid and to be like, hey, one of the things that's happening here is that this guy is engaging with you as an adult. And so I'm going to do the same thing.

[Matthew Remsky]

Right?

[Craig Johnson]

You have just said a political opinion. I disagree with it. I can't. I won't tell you that you can't believe this because I can't get in your head. What I can do is I can talk to you about the facts behind that belief. I can talk to you about where that propaganda came from. I can talk to you about what those people want you to do, why it's in their interests and not yours. I can tell you about my beliefs, where I got them, why I have them. Like, this is one of the reasons that the interventions that I suggest in the book are, are fundamentally different from the interventions that you must make against fascism in the public sphere. Because in the private sphere, yelling at somebody isn't going to work, and even less so if they're a child.

[Unknown]

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