Conspirituality Podcast – Episode Summary: "Brief: Antifascist Woodshed 2 (Punching Nazis?)"
Release Date: March 15, 2025
Hosts: Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, Julian Walker
Episode Title: Brief: Antifascist Woodshed 2 (Punching Nazis?)
Introduction
In this compelling episode of the Conspirituality Podcast, hosts Derek Beres and Julian Walker delve into the intricate relationship between antifascist actions and the broader landscape of conspiracy theories intertwined with spiritual influences. Titled "Brief: Antifascist Woodshed 2 (Punching Nazis?),” the episode serves as the second installment in a two-part series exploring the complexities of anti-fascist movements, particularly focusing on the morality and effectiveness of violent versus nonviolent resistance.
Viral Moment: The Punching Nazi Clip
Timestamp: [02:24] – [03:32]
The episode opens with a discussion about a viral Instagram clip featuring comedian Peyton Vannis, also known as "Vanny," which amassed over 5 million views in just five days despite Vanny not being a major influencer. The clip humorously yet provocatively depicts Vanny contemplating actions against Nazis, raising taboo questions about self-defense and resistance in oppressive systems.
Key Points:
- Viral Nature: The clip’s rapid spread underscores society’s fascination with and discomfort around the concept of physical confrontation with fascists.
- Underlying Questions: It probes viewers to consider how far they would go in self-defense and the moral implications of violent resistance.
Notable Quote:
- Julian Walker: "This isn't a huge account. And I think it's funny and uncomfortable and viral because it's poking at a bunch of swollen hanging taboo questions and private thoughts like how far would I go in self defense or to secure justice in an oppressive system?" [04:30]
Antifascist Strategies: Violence vs. Nonviolence
Timestamp: [07:01] – [10:14]
Derek introduces the episode’s central theme: the ongoing debate within antifascist movements about the use of violence versus nonviolence. He emphasizes the necessity of defining these terms clearly to separate moral arguments from strategic ones.
Key Points:
- Historical Context: References to past antifascist actions, from the coal wars to modern protests, highlight the enduring presence of violence in resistance movements.
- Philosophical Foundations: The discussion incorporates insights from thinkers like Natasha Leonard, Mark Bray, Michael Stone, and Kwame Ture, examining how these philosophies inform current antifascist tactics.
Notable Quote:
- Julian Walker: "The piety that is expected of us all...how piety turns to appeasement when the White House calls Representative Al Green's...shouting protest at the speech, [quote] the most disgraceful moment in the history of presidential addresses." [05:53]
Case Study: Inauguration Day Punch
Timestamp: [20:30] – [30:26]
A significant portion of the episode analyzes the infamous moment when a black bloc antifascist protester punched Richard Spencer, a prominent figure in the alt-right movement, during the 2017 inauguration. This act became a symbol of kinetic antifascist action, sparking widespread debate.
Key Points:
- Media Framing: Mainstream media often trivialized the act by reducing it to questions of incivility and free speech, overshadowing the deeper motivations and implications of such resistance.
- Demonization and Chilling Effects: The portrayal led to policy proposals labeling such actions as domestic terrorism, thereby discouraging community-based resistance efforts.
Notable Quotes:
- Amer Rahman: "If you punch a Nazi, it doesn't make you as bad as one. You know what we should do with Nazis? We should debate them...Fucking Narnia." [25:06]
- Mark Bray (via Randy Cohen): "Anti fascist violence is interpreted as superficially as possible...advocating following Gandhi's example or King's example, without resorting to the gutter tactics of people like Spencer." [26:37]
Philosophical and Historical Perspectives on Resistance
Timestamp: [32:30] – [39:59]
The hosts delve into the philosophical underpinnings of antifascist resistance, referencing influential figures such as Kwame Ture and Frantz Fanon. They explore how historical contexts shape contemporary tactics and the importance of understanding the power dynamics involved in labeling violence.
Key Points:
- Kwame Ture's Analysis: Ture critiques the liberal approach to violence, highlighting the double standards in how violence is perceived based on the perpetrator’s power and societal status.
- Frantz Fanon's Views: Fanon’s writings on the necessity of violence in decolonization movements are examined, emphasizing violence as a tool for restoring dignity and combating oppression.
- Nonviolent Imperative: The episode critically assesses the limitations of strictly nonviolent approaches, arguing that they may be insufficient in the face of pervasive and organized fascist violence.
Notable Quotes:
- Kwame Ture: "It's not a question of whether it's right to kill or it is wrong to kill. Killing goes on...my violence is not legalized because Africans living in Washington D.C. do not have the power to legalize their violence." [37:31]
- Frantz Fanon: "Forceful resistance and self-defense as a potentially liberating energy freeing the oppressed person from inferiority, despair and inaction." [39:22]
Media and Public Reaction
Timestamp: [30:26] – [38:57]
The episode critiques how media and public discourse often simplify and misrepresent antifascist actions, reducing complex resistance strategies to meme-able moments that strip away their substantive context and purpose.
Key Points:
- Memeification: Viral clips and social media snippets can distort the gravity of antifascist actions, making them appear superficial or laughable.
- Public Misconceptions: Simplistic portrayals lead to misunderstandings about the motivations and effectiveness of antifascist resistance, undermining serious discussion and strategic planning.
Notable Quote:
- Julian Walker: "It reduced the moment down to, you know, a question of what would Gandhi do? A consideration of the ethics of the punch and of the right of Richard Spencer to not get punched." [27:46]
Conclusion and Next Steps
Timestamp: [42:04] – End
The episode concludes by setting the stage for Part Two of the "Antifascist Woodshed" series, which will delve deeper into the definitions and tactical debates within antifascist movements. The hosts tease discussions on how antifascist direct action and mutual aid are interconnected, referencing films like "How to Blow Up a Pipeline" and Ken Loach’s "Land and Freedom."
Key Points:
- Upcoming Topics: Exploration of full-spectrum resistance, including armed and unarmed violent resistance, and their roles in combating fascism.
- Integrative Approaches: Emphasis on the inseparability of direct action and mutual aid in effective antifascist strategies.
Notable Quote:
- Derek Beres: "What are we really talking about when we use the terms violence and nonviolence? How opposed are they really? This is a crucial question because everything I've explored so far has only really excavated the cloudy morality and psychology of the issue to get down to this level." [41:56]
Final Thoughts
"Brief: Antifascist Woodshed 2 (Punching Nazis?)" offers a nuanced exploration of the ethical and strategic dimensions of antifascist resistance. By dissecting viral moments, media portrayals, and philosophical arguments, Derek and Julian provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the challenges and complexities inherent in combating fascism within the modern sociopolitical landscape.
For Those Interested in Part Two: Make sure to follow Conspirituality on various platforms and support their Patreon to access the upcoming detailed analysis set to release on March 17, 2025.