Conspirituality Podcast

"Brief: He’s Coming For All Vaccines"

Date: October 4, 2025
Host: Derek Beres
Summary by Episode Focus:
This episode explores Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s ramped-up attack on vaccine efficacy as he posts a widely shared government video employing classic anti-vaccine rhetoric. Derek Beres meticulously breaks down Kennedy's techniques—disinformation, cherry-picking, and strawman arguments—revealing how Kennedy systematically distorts historical and contemporary public health evidence to discredit vaccines and erode faith in public health institutions. The show highlights how such misinformation is weaponized in the current “conspirituality” and wellness grifter landscape.

Episode Overview

• Main Theme:
  Dereck Beres critiques RFK Jr.'s recent anti-vaccine government video, unpacking his manipulation of historical health data, misuse of academic studies, and reliance on propaganda techniques. The episode connects these moves to broader patterns seen in the convergence of conspiracy, New Age, and alternative wellness movements.
• Purpose:
  To analyze the propaganda techniques used by prominent anti-vaccine figures influencing wellness and spiritual communities, and to arm listeners with critical tools to recognize and rebut disinformation.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. RFK Jr.'s Video: Classic Anti-Vaccination Rhetoric

• RFK Jr. posts a seven-minute video following a Senate hearing, attacking vaccines by claiming other public health measures, not vaccines, caused major declines in infectious diseases.
• Technique Analysis: RFK Jr. begins with selective truths and blends nuanced historical facts with misdirection to undermine confidence in vaccines (03:00–04:46).
  • Strawman Tactics: Switches between “morbidity” (disease incidence) and “mortality” (deaths), conflating the two to support his agenda (04:46, 07:33).
  • "They start with a grain of truth and then go off the rails to push an agenda." – Derek Beres [02:46]
• Propaganda:
  • "Kennedy is masterful at making strawman arguments, and throughout this video he continually switches from morbidity to mortality and back..." – Derek Beres [04:46]
  • He frames public health progress as only marginally attributable to vaccines.

2. Data and Study Distortion

• Misuse of CDC and Johns Hopkins data (Bernard Guyer paper):
  • RFK claims mortality from infectious diseases declined before vaccines, implying vaccines had little impact (07:33, 08:05).
  • Beres points out the paper continues to note that vaccine introduction virtually eliminated deaths from these diseases:
    “In the fucking paper, he's saying that vaccines are very important because they've kept people from dying since their introduction. Somehow Kennedy fucking missed that.” [09:18]
• Graph Manipulation:
  • RFK shows measles death decline before vaccine introduction, suggesting the vaccine's irrelevance (10:40).
  • Beres: No one claims measles vaccines saved lives before their use, but Kennedy sets up this false dichotomy to attack public health (11:05).
• Cherry-Picked Studies:
  • McKinley & McKinley (1977): RFK wields this sociological study as proof that improved nutrition, not medical advances, explain mortality decline (11:44).
  • Beres details criticisms of the study, noting limits in methodology and, crucially, that even McKinley explicitly warned their work was being misused by anti-vaccine activists (15:40).

3. Misrepresentation of Experts and Their Warnings

• Edward Kass (1970):
  • Kennedy again selectively quotes, presenting Kass as warning against vaccines (18:30).
  • In reality, Kass, like McKinley, saw vaccines as critical but wanted broader credit for underlying social and economic progress (19:21).
  • “The thing about Edward Cass is that he, like the last few authors, never argued that vaccines were unimportant or ineffective. ... He encouraged ongoing vaccination campaigns, but he wanted decision makers to stay open to social and environmental drivers of health…” – Derek Beres [19:21]

4. Attacking Public Figures/Creating False Enemies

• Senator Cantwell Smear:
  • RFK claims Cantwell has taken $456,000 from pharma companies; actual number is ~$75,000 due to campaign finance rules and her policy of rejecting PAC money (21:39–21:45).
  • "Lying is a feature, not a bug." – Derek Beres [22:46]

5. False Magnanimity, Outrage, and Final Reveal

• Classic “I’m not anti-vax” Pivot:
  • Kennedy includes a disclaimer that vaccines are useful—just before undercutting their relevance and feeding anti-vax narratives (24:06–24:18).
  • "That's the clip he'll use and share to say, look, I'm not actually an anti vaxxer embedded way at the end of the video..." – Derek Beres [24:18]
• Dog-whistles for followers:
  • Beres notes how RFK Jr. uses rhetoric that appeals to the “wellness” and conspiratorial crowd, linking his position to right-wing pandemic revisionism (25:04, 25:38):
    “And that's the big reveal we all knew was coming. He's coming for all childhood vaccines.” [25:38]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Strawman & Data Play:
  "Kennedy is masterful at making strawman arguments... he continually switches from morbidity to mortality and back, and he sets up his argument by conflating the two…" – Derek Beres [04:46]

• On Misreading of Crucial Research:
  “In the fucking paper, he's saying that vaccines are very important because they've kept people from dying since their introduction. Somehow Kennedy fucking missed that.” – Derek Beres [09:18]

• On “Misused” Academic Work:
  "The McKinley's noted that this report has been misused by anti vaxxers. They explicitly stated that such use of their work is a, quote, egregious misinterpretation." – Derek Beres [15:57]

• On Campaign Finance Slander:
  "He's conflating individual donations from people who work in the pharmaceutical industry with pharmaceutical industry money. Those are very different things. ... Lying is a feature, not a bug." – Derek Beres [22:46]

• Visualizing Propaganda:
  "The entire video is like a field of scarecrows, and Kennedy has no shame in setting them up." – Derek Beres [24:50]

• On Propagandist Technique:
  “He’s banking on the fact that most people are not going to go and read the studies that he cites…in that sense, sadly, he's right.” – Derek Beres [23:28]

• Big Reveal:
  "He's coming for all childhood vaccines...reading the few studies and putting this episode together only took a few hours of my time...if you're going to just repeat what this man says without the same level of skepticism he's calling for, I don't really know what to say. That's how propaganda works." – Derek Beres [25:38–26:21]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• RFK Jr.’s anti-vaccine video—setup and public response: [02:06–04:46]
• Conflation of morbidity and mortality, strawman tactics exposed: [04:46–07:33]
• Deconstruction of CDC/Johns Hopkins and measles data misuse: [07:33–11:05]
• Critique of McKinley & McKinley study and how it’s weaponized: [11:44–17:30]
• Misrepresentation of Edward Kass’s public warnings: [18:30–21:15]
• Slander of Senator Cantwell and misinformation on pharma funding: [21:39–22:46]
• RFK’s pivot to “I support vaccines, but…” & closing dog whistles: [24:06–25:38]
• Conclusion—propaganda’s exploitation of lazy skepticism: [25:38–27:01]

Takeaway

Derek Beres delivers a pointed and densely referenced critique of RFK Jr.’s anti-vaccine messaging. He demonstrates the dangers of half-truths and propaganda amplified by charismatic figures exploiting public skepticism and wellness trends. The episode is a masterclass in media literacy—encouraging listeners to interrogate sources and resist easy answers in public health debates.

Listen if you want:

• Insight into how anti-science rhetoric infiltrates wellness culture
• Critical breakdown of classic anti-vaccine arguments
• Practical examples of misinformation debunked with evidence