Conspirituality Podcast: Episode Summary — "Brief: Is It Fascism?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Conspirituality
• Hosts/Authors: Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, Julian Walker
• Episode Title: Brief: Is It Fascism?
• Release Date: March 29, 2025

Overview: In the episode "Brief: Is It Fascism?", the hosts of Conspirituality delve into the pressing question of whether contemporary political movements in the United States exhibit fascist tendencies. Drawing upon Robert Paxton's seminal work, The Anatomy of Fascism, Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, and Julian Walker explore historical parallels and assess current political dynamics, particularly focusing on the rise of MAGA, authoritarian rhetoric, and the erosion of democratic liberties.

1. Introduction to Robert Paxton’s "The Anatomy of Fascism"

[01:01] Derek Beres:
The episode begins with Derek introducing Robert Paxton’s The Anatomy of Fascism, a comprehensive analysis that traces the evolution and characteristics of fascist movements globally. He notes that both Julian and Matthew have recently engaged with Paxton’s work, prompting a collective exploration of its relevance to contemporary America.

Key Points:

• Paxton’s Expertise: Paxton is recognized as one of the world's foremost experts on fascism.
• Initial Reluctance: In 2017, Paxton advised caution in labeling then-President Trump as fascist, reserving definitive judgment until events such as the January 6 insurrection.

2. Defining Fascism: Insights from Paxton’s Work

[02:42] Derek Beres:
Derek outlines his approach of reading selected passages from Paxton’s book and discussing their applicability to current American politics.

[05:15] Matthew Remski:
Matthew praises Paxton’s ability to make academic content accessible, highlighting the nuanced understanding that fascism varies significantly across different contexts and periods.

Notable Quote:

"Fascist movements could never grow without the help of ordinary people, even conventionally good people... the excess of fascism and power also required wide complicity among members of the establishment."
— Derek Beres [06:04]

Discussion:

• Populist Rhetoric: Matthew connects Paxton’s observation to the modern use of populist rhetoric, where leaders rally diverse groups by identifying common enemies and promising national restoration.
• Support from Elites: Derek emphasizes the necessity of support from traditional elites—businessmen, government officials, and military leaders—for fascist movements to gain traction, questioning whether such support exists in today’s administration.

3. Current Political Climate and Fascist Analogies

[08:54] Derek Beres:
Derek discusses the absence of a coherent fascist program in the current political landscape, noting the emphasis on unity and the dismissal of complex policy frameworks.

Notable Quote:

"Fascism does not rest explicitly upon an elaborated philosophical system, but rather upon popular feelings about master races... Fascist leaders made no secret of having no program."
— Derek Beres [08:54]

Analysis:

• Post-Truth Era: Matthew relates this to the disorientation caused by misinformation and the erosion of factual discourse, fostering an environment ripe for authoritarianism.
• Accountability and Public Health: The discussion touches on recent actions by political figures like Bobby Kennedy, who, according to the hosts, undermine public health efforts—a tactic reminiscent of fascist disdain for democratic norms.

4. Historical Context and Modern Parallels

[13:11] Matthew Remski:
Matthew draws parallels between historical fascism and current movements, elucidating how contemporary groups blend nationalist and authoritarian impulses without adhering to a strict ideological framework.

Notable Quote:

"The fascisms we have known have come into power with the help of frightened ex-liberals and opportunist technocrats and ex-conservatives..."
— Derek Beres [13:11]

Discussion:

• Coalition Building: The hosts examine how modern political coalitions, including disillusioned liberals and opportunistic technocrats, echo the uneasy alliances that historically facilitated fascist ascents.
• Technological Influence: They highlight the role of technology and the internet in shaping and propelling contemporary authoritarian movements, marking a departure from past fascist dynamics.

[16:59] Matthew Remski:
Matthew contemplates Paxton’s assertion that fascism is inconceivable without a mature socialist left, comparing it to the U.S. context where anti-socialist sentiments fuel right-wing populism without direct socialist influences.

5. Characteristics of American Fascism According to Paxton

[29:48] Derek Beres:
Derek presents Paxton’s envisioning of American fascism, emphasizing the adaptation of national symbols and rituals into tools for enforcing conformity and identifying enemies.

Notable Quote:

"No swastikas in an American fascism, but stars and stripes or stars and bars and Christian crosses... transforming them into obligatory litmus tests for detecting the internal enemy."
— Derek Beres [29:48]

Analysis:

• Symbolism: The hosts discuss how traditional American symbols could be co-opted to serve fascist agendas, promoting loyalty tests rather than genuine patriotic expression.
• Nationalism and Identity: Derek shares personal experiences with nationalism from his time in apartheid South Africa, underscoring the universal tactics of using national symbols to foster division and suppress dissent.

6. The Fragility of Democratic Institutions

[37:51] Derek Beres:
Derek emphasizes Paxton’s point that fascism is not inevitable, highlighting the importance of active resistance and the role of democratic institutions in preventing authoritarian takeovers.

Notable Quote:

"Fascism is never an inevitable outcome."
— Derek Beres [37:51]

Discussion:

• Current Threats: The conversation pivots to present-day threats, including potential martial law and the manipulation of legal frameworks to suppress opposition.
• Hope and Resistance: They explore strategies for combating authoritarianism, such as fostering accountability, promoting love and community, and encouraging active civic engagement.

7. Conclusion: Navigating the Path Forward

[40:44] Matthew Remski:
Matthew reflects on the challenges within the Democratic Party to counter rising authoritarianism, expressing hope in grassroots movements led by figures like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, despite skepticism about systemic change.

[42:32] Derek Beres:
Derek concludes with a cautious outlook, acknowledging the disillusionment among Trump’s base may present opportunities to prevent a slide into fascism. He underscores the necessity of collective action and vigilance to uphold democratic values.

Final Thoughts:

• Resilience of Democracy: Both hosts agree that while the path appears perilous, the resilience of democratic institutions and the courage of individuals can thwart the rise of fascist tendencies.
• Call to Action: They encourage listeners to remain engaged, promote transparency, and support movements that defend democratic freedoms and ethical governance.

Key Takeaways:

• Historical Insights: Understanding the origins and characteristics of fascism is crucial in identifying and countering its modern manifestations.
• Current Parallels: Elements of current U.S. politics exhibit troubling similarities to historical fascist movements, particularly in the use of populist rhetoric and erosion of democratic norms.
• Active Resistance: Preventing the rise of fascism requires active participation, accountability, and the strengthening of democratic institutions.

Notable Quotes:

1. "Fascist movements could never grow without the help of ordinary people, even conventionally good people..."
   — Derek Beres [06:04]

2. "Fascism does not rest explicitly upon an elaborated philosophical system, but rather upon popular feelings about master races..."
   — Derek Beres [08:54]

3. "Fascism is never an inevitable outcome."
   — Derek Beres [37:51]

Timestamp Highlights:

• [01:01] Introduction to Robert Paxton’s expertise and initial reluctance to label Trump as fascist.
• [06:04] Discussion on the necessity of elite complicity in fascist movements.
• [08:54] Exploration of the lack of a coherent fascist program in modern politics.
• [13:11] Comparison of historical coalition-building to current political alliances.
• [29:48] Envisioning American fascism through the transformation of national symbols.
• [37:51] Affirmation that fascism is not predetermined and can be countered.

Conclusion: The episode "Brief: Is It Fascism?" provides a thought-provoking analysis of the current American political landscape through the lens of historical fascism. By dissecting Robert Paxton’s theories and applying them to present-day events, the Conspirituality hosts offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the threats facing democratic society. The discussion underscores the importance of vigilance, active resistance, and collective action in safeguarding against authoritarian tendencies.