Brief: Nicki Minaj Goes MAGA

Summary

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Conspirituality Podcast – Episode Brief: “Nicki Minaj Goes MAGA”

Hosts: Derek Beres, Julian Walker
Date: December 27, 2025

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Overview:

This Conspirituality "Brief" unpacks the recent Turning Point USA’s America Fest 2025 (AMFest), focusing especially on the pop culture spectacle of Nicki Minaj’s sudden alignment with the MAGA right. Derek and Julian dissect AMFest’s potent blend of Christian nationalism, culture war rhetoric, and the ongoing convergence of wellness influencers, conspiracy theorists, and right-wing political operatives. They explore the conference as a case study in the marketing of victimhood and power within the modern American right, punctuated by moments such as Nicki Minaj’s awkward appearance and Russell Brand’s evangelical turn.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Setting the Scene: AMFest 2025 and the MAGA Grift Machine

• [03:33] Derek frames AMFest as a "shit show" that’s nonetheless an effective cash cow:

  “We’d be foolish to overlook the fact that TP USA's reach has only grown since Charlie Kirk's death.” (Derek Beres)

  • AMFest 2025 saw 30,000 attendees (a record), raising $84 million for TPUSA’s 2024 MAGA politics push.
• [04:24] Julian remarks on the event’s undertones:

  “The capacity to weaponize this sort of outrage and combine it into a rah rah... music festival, WWE Carnival kind of atmosphere... a moving island of misfit toys.”

2. Identity, Victimhood, and the “Christian Nationalist” Turn

• [07:02] Reporting from Brandy Zadrozny (NBC News) notes that the women’s Q&A with Erica Kirk focused on “biohacking, divine timing, vitamin C, the dangers of Botox… and her grief, which felt heavy in the room.”
• [07:54] Julian’s sarcasm:

  “We need the Erica Kirk morning routine. Does she go Barefoot? ...does she do some butthole tanning?”

3. Nicki Minaj’s MAGA Moment [10:27]

• [08:01] Derek outlines Minaj’s legal troubles and online speculation about her rightward drift, noting parallels to Russell Brand’s defensive posture following allegations.
• [10:27] Erica Kirk asks Minaj “what is a man?” Minaj fumbles, makes an awkward “news scum” joke (a Newsom jab), and praises Trump’s handsomeness—eliciting confusion.
• [11:13] Julian’s read:

  “[Nicki’s] not really good at ad libbing in this weird situation… trying to find, trying to fumble her way into what the crowd will like… a disaster.”

• [12:53] Discussion of Cardi B’s 2024 anti-Republican tweet, the years-long Minaj/Cardi B beef, and online speculation about Minaj’s “fears” given her and her family’s criminal exposures.

4. J.D. Vance, Christian Nationalism, and White Identity Politics

• [13:59] After Vance’s “you don’t have to apologize for being white anymore” speech:

  “Right, well, it’s over. You can be yourself now. You can be your white self.” (Derek, ironically) “It’s been decades … that I felt incredibly oppressed as a white male … it’s been a tough road.” (Julian, satirically)

• [15:11] Michael Knowles’ “Team America” speech (see below for full quote) espouses heritage- and lineage-based nationalism, implying assimilation means adopting MAGA beliefs and (in Julian’s view) “coming to look like Michael Knowles.”

5. Historical Revisionism and White Supremacy

• [18:01] Clip: Matt Walsh introduces his new “Real History” series, denying colonial and slavery atrocities:

  “It’s time for a lesson on what they’re not teaching in public schools on the real history of slavery, of colonialism, of the Indians of America and the world. It’s time for Real History with Matt Walsh.”

• [18:59] Julian’s assessment:

  “This is straight up. White supremacy… It’s really disgusting.”

• [19:24] Derek points to the rhetorical straw man: “No one ever said Americans invented slavery… he creates this caricature of the American left and then puts it out as if that’s what you’re taught in public schools.”

6. Infighting and MAGA Civil War

• [20:34] Noted: Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson’s open feuding on the AMFest stage, mostly over Israel and Gaza.
• [21:13] Derek’s projection:

  “Historically… the only way that this sort of extremism… goes down is they eat themselves. …they will turn on each other because it’s not about community.”

• Concerns about what damage is done “in the process”—given new hardline efforts on censorship and deregulation.

7. Brand, Wellness Influence, and Parasocial Grifts

• [22:52] & [24:15] Russell Brand’s transformation from wellness yogi/comic to evangelical Christian nationalist at AMFest:

  “We have not yet tried to create the Christian nation… I pray you can build a Christian America…” (Brand, [22:52])

• [24:15] Julian:

  “Brand… still has in the back of his mind: ‘I should be careful here because I’m not really American. I need to say, as a visitor…’”

8. Wellness, MAGA, and Manufactured Powerlessness

• [28:10] Derek’s thesis:

  “Their power is in pretending they’re powerless… The right, MAGA, controls every branch… but they have to pretend that they don’t have power.”

• [30:21] On the distinction between “true” (Reagan-style) conservatives and radical MAGA wellness influencers:

  “To call this radical political movement ‘conservative’ is truly unfair to actual conservatives.”

9. Alex Clark and the Wellness-Right Pipeline [31:06]

• [31:06] Alex Clark’s AMFest speech ties “baby making health crisis” to culture wars:

  “We are in the middle of a baby making health crisis and this is not a left right issue. This is a future, no future issue… There are lobbyists right now trying to infiltrate the conservative movement… If we care about Maha, we have to stay on main… Because a movement that won’t protect children’s bodies will not ever protect the country. Big Chemical, Big Ag and Big Food are trying to split MAGA from Maha so things can go back to business as usual. But we don’t want that, do we? There are people in this very room who would rather I not say what I’m about to say today. But I’m saying it anyway.” (Alex Clark, [31:06])

• [32:07] Julian notes Clark’s polarizing stance:

  “She’s very strongly trying to polarize… she’s in her own way trying to say, like, you, you’re gonna align with me against these imaginary enemies in the room who don’t want me to say this…”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• [04:24] Julian Walker:

  “They know how to speak to their audience and they know how to draw in young people … Like you reference, you’ve got Russell Brand, Riley Gaines, and then Nicki Minaj. This is where it’s kind of like where people end up when all of their other options have … fallen apart.”

• [07:02] Brandy Zadrozny (read by Derek):

  “A line of young women, most Turning Point chapter leaders, came with … agreeable questions: Whether Erica [Kirk] preferred waffles or pancakes, … how to keep one’s femininity in a feminist world. … Her answers rambling, including biohacking, divine timing, vitamin C, the dangers of Botox…”

• [13:59] Derek Beres (sarcastically, on J.D. Vance):

  “Right, well, it’s over. You can, you can be yourself now. You can be your white self.”

• [15:11] Michael Knowles:

  “To be on the team, you have to acknowledge … we are a real people with a real historical lineage and a real historical destiny. We came here on the Mayflower… We spread across the continent… When it’s worked, those foreigners have come to act and talk and even look like us. When it hasn’t worked, they haven’t… If you prefer the flag of some other nation, the customs… you are not on my Team. If you are and want to be a member of the American people, you are on my team.”

• [18:01] Matt Walsh:

  “They told you America invented slavery. They told you the Indians were peaceful. … Trail of Tears, Smallpox, Blanket Smith, the Red Scare. It’s all baseless. It’s time for a lesson on what they’re not teaching in public schools… It’s time for Real History with Matt Walsh.”

• [22:52] Russell Brand:

  “We have not yet tried to create the Christian nation that America may yet become. … As an Englishman, as a visitor, I pray that you’re able to do it… I pray that in the name of the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit.”

• [31:06] Alex Clark:

  “We are in the middle of a baby making health crisis and this is not a left right issue. This is a future, no future issue…”

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Conclusion & Analysis

Theme Recap:
This episode deftly exposes how the modern right, and particularly the conspirituality-adjacent figures within it, fuse wellness grifts, Christian nationalism, and white identity politics into a self-reinforcing money-making machine. The co-hosts underscore the chronic self-victimization of actors who wield enormous power—structuring entire events and networks around the myth that they are marginalized and under threat, even as they control the levers of state and cultural power.

Notable Dynamics:

• AMFest doubles as spectacle and recruitment for the new, reactionary right, drawing in mainstream influencers whose personal baggage (Brand, Minaj) makes them ripe for “redemption via rightward turn.”
• The wellness pipeline (“Maha” – Make America Healthy Again) provides an easy gateway for culture war battle cries, and is nearly indistinguishable from MAGA politics.
• MAGA infighting (Shapiro vs. Carlson, etc.) reveals the instability beneath the movement’s unity messaging.
• Revisionist history and open white nationalism (Walsh, Knowles) are no longer dog whistles—they’re explicit.

Closing Note:
For listeners unfamiliar with AMFest or the conspirituality phenomenon, this episode offers a critical walkthrough of how far-right politics has merged seamlessly with culture war grievance, influencer marketing, and wellness ideology. The hosts’ biting humor and media literacy make clear the stakes in these rhetorical and political conflicts.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:33] – AMFest as Christian nationalist cash cow; rising attendance and revenue
• [07:02] – Women’s Q&A with Erica Kirk; conspirituality lifestyle seeps in
• [08:01-13:00] – Nicki Minaj’s legal troubles, MAGA drift, awkward onstage moments
• [13:59-15:40] – J.D. Vance: “Don’t apologize for being white”; Julian’s and Derek’s satirical reactions
• [15:11-17:12] – Michael Knowles’ “Team America” assimilation speech
• [18:01-20:01] – Matt Walsh’s historical revisionism; Julian and Derek call out white supremacy
• [22:52-24:15] – Russell Brand’s prayer for a US Christian nation
• [28:10-30:21] – Power through victimhood; distinction between Reagan conservatives and MAGA
• [31:06-32:56] – Alex Clark’s wellness/MAGA co-optation; Big Ag, “baby crisis,” and the policing of “Maha”

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For further discussion and episode access:

• Instagram/Threads: @conspiritualpod
• Ad-free archives and Monday bonus content: patreon.com/conspirituality
• Apple Podcasts: Subscribe for bonus episodes

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Transcript

[Julian Walker]

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[Derek Barris]

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[Julian Walker]

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[Alex Clark]

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[Julian Walker]

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[Derek Barris]

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[Julian Walker]

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[Derek Barris]

Plus outfit recommendations and styling tips. I keep what works and send back the rest. It's so easy. Make style easy. Get started [e-mail] Spotify. That's Stitch Fix.com Spotify despite the devastating loss of Charlie Kirk, my incredible husband.

[Alex Clark]

At uvu, Caleb has persisted with the same grift. Excuse me. Gift grit.

[Derek Barris]

It has been a long day. Trust me, you're not a grifter. Honey, it's all good. Oh. Oh, I don't know about that. That's Erica Kirk accidentally letting some truth slip out during Turning Point USA's four day holiday extravaganza, which is called AM Fest America Fest 2025, which took place last weekend to a packed crowd in Phoenix. At the moment, Charlie Kirk's widow was presenting the Charlie Kirk Courage Award to a Utah Valley University student named Caleb Chilcott. Apparently, the TPUSA CH is trying to impose a Charlie Kirk memorial statue on campus, which is definitely not a grift for the organization. The event featured the top non grifters trying to claw their way to the top of TPUSA's food chain, which Erica seems to have no problem lording over. So you have the expectables there like J.D. vance, Donald Trump Jr. Tulsi Gabbard, Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Mike Johnson, Benny Johnson. All the Johnsons were there. Then you have the culture warriors like Alex Clark, a Maha favorite whose speech revolved around the baby making health crisis. Everyone's favorite, fifth place swimmer Riley Gaines was there. And everyone's favorite, alleged sexual assaulter Russell Brand and Nicki Minaj. Okay, we're going to get into all this. You're listening to a conspirituality brief. Nicki Minaj goes maga. I'm Derek Barris.

[Julian Walker]

I'm Julian Walker.

[Derek Barris]

And you can find us on Instagram and Threads at Conspiritual Pod, as well as individually over on Blue Sky. And you can access all of our episodes ad free, plus our Monday bonus episodes on [e-mail] conspirituality. We are also on Apple subscriptions, so you can grab our Monday bonus episodes there. As independent media creators, we really appreciate your support.

[Julian Walker]

And let me just say, Derek, I hope you don't mind if I call you honey. You're not a grifter. It's okay. Like Patreon is legit.

[Derek Barris]

Okay, Julian, I want to look at this conference through the lens of identity, specifically the Christian nationalist identity that we've covered on this podcast for years now. As much of a shit show as this event was, we'd be foolish to overlook the fact that TP USA's reach has only grown since Charlie Kirk's death. In fact, this year's conference saw a record 30,000 attendees. And the overt messaging going on, both at the conference and in the nation, broadly needs to be discussed. Recent tax filings found that TPUSA brought in $84 million to evangelize for MAGA politics in 2024. So the shit show is a cash cow for these Christian fascists. We're going to get into a bunch of clips from speeches today, but what did you think of Am AM Fest from what you've seen online?

[Julian Walker]

Well, first of all, the capacity to weaponize this sort of outrage and combine it into a rah rah sort of, you know, music festival, WWE Carnival kind of atmosphere. Like, they know how to speak to their audience and they know how to draw in young people. And this is, you know, I think what perhaps a poorly considered turn of phrase from Ezra Klein had a grain of truth in it, which is that Charlie Kirk was practic politics in the right way, meaning he was really speaking to a generation of people who could get on board with actually some really, really hateful messaging. But somehow they've been able to turn him into this saintly martyr who was for dialogue and free speech and was, you know, really, really trying to be a positive influence on the political stage. Which I think nothing could be further from the truth. I know we're going to get into, like, the different things that happen. I mean, in some ways I was grabbing my popcorn because there was some of the current strife and, like, MAGA Civil War stuff going on on stage in a way that we haven't seen before at a major conservative event like this. But it's also like the classic moving island of misfit toys. Like you reference, you've got Russell Brand, you've got Riley Gaines, and then Nicki Minaj. This is where it's kind of like where people end up when all of their other options have kind of fallen apart or they've made enough missteps that like, oh, well, maybe I be on stage at Turning Point usa.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah. So Ben Shapiro opened the weekend. I didn't clip him. But then an hour later, apparently Tucker Carlson came out and they've been beefing. So, yeah, there was a lot going on. But I do want to start with some good news because the day after the conference ended, AM Fest 2026 tickets went on sale, so you and I can cover it live next year. I love Phoenix. Actually, I do like Phoenix. There's some good pizza there. But maybe they'll bring back a replica of the tent that Charlie Kirk was murdering for selfies. Because, yeah, that was a. This year that actually happened.

[Julian Walker]

Unbelievable.

[Derek Barris]

I saw a photo of that that was featuring Ms. Now's Brandy. Zed Rosni, great reporter who we've covered over the years, and I've been interviewed by her when she was with NBC News. She was there and she often is at MAGA and extremist events. She noted that Erica Kirk held a Q and A in the same prove me wrong style as Charlie used to. Yet no one challenged her in that sort of crowd. Instead, we actually seem to have a of conspirituality's lifestyle advice seeping in. So here's a little piece from Brandy's reporting Julian.

[Julian Walker]

A line of young women, most of them turning point chapter leaders, came with a more agreeable set of questions. Whether Erica preferred waffles or pancakes, her favorite holiday as a woman of God, and how to keep one's femininity in a feminist world. They asked for advice on finding a husband, which beauty pageants she liked best and what books Charlie read. Everyone called him by his first name, like an old friend. Erica's answers, which sometimes rambled, included stories about her husband and insights into biohacking, divine timing, vitamin C, the dangers of Botox, her two small children, and her grief, which felt heavy in the room.

[Derek Barris]

I looked for it. None of this was recorded as far as I could find. I want to hear her talking about biohacking. I want to know what was going on then. But I guess, you know, we'll have to go next year to hear that. But we need to.

[Julian Walker]

We need the Erica Kirk morning routine. Does she go Barefoot. Does she gaze at the sun? Does she do some butthole tanning? Like, what's those?

[Derek Barris]

I'm sure it's coming. I, you know, well, I did watch all of Russell Brand's speech, which didn't have too much of that. It had a lot of God, though, which makes sense considering that the authorities in the UK just hit him with another two counts on alleged sexual assault this week. So he had to guide it up out there to try to mobilize his crowd. Let's get into some clips I want to play first. One moment from Nicki Minaj's interview with Erica Kirk. And like a lot of people, I was like, what? When I saw that she was there. But there's actually been a lot of online speculation that frames the context. Plus, I've actually since been watching some hip hop podcasts, like Joe Bowden's podcast, where they talk about how they were calling Nikki out months ago for going MAGA and they were getting a lot of shit. Now they're like, can we say it now? So, but besides that, Minaj is an immigrant and her husband is a registered sex offender. He attempted to rape a 16 year old in 1995 when he was also 16. And then he was arrested in 2022 for failing to register as a sex offender, which you have to do whenever you move. And they moved to California. Her brother Jelani was convicted of child sex assault in 2017 when he was 38 and the girl was, quote, younger than 13. He was sentenced to 25 to life in January 2020. Then you have Minaj herself, who was detained in 2024 for possession of marijuana in the Netherlands of all places. She was attempting to bring it to England. So I guess they do monitor for that. And then a judge is forcing Minaj and her husband to sell their 20 million dollar mansion to pay for a $500,000 judgment for a security guard that her husband Petty reportedly broke his jaw during a 2019 tour. So there's a whole lot of shit going on. Which of these instances might be responsible for her hard right turn? We can't really be certain, but people are thinking she's doing a Russell Brand here, especially since she talked a whole bunch about God and oh, Mr. Trump, might you help a friend out here? It was this moment that really jumped out. However, for context, Erica asks Nikki what a man is, because, you know, the right is obsessed with this question.

[Alex Clark]

And for young men, don't be new scum. Yes. See, dear young men, you have amazing role models like our handsome, dashing President. And you have amazing role models like the assassin JD Vance, our vice president. And when I say that.

[Derek Barris]

Trust me, there's nothing new under the sun that I have not heard. So you're fine.

[Julian Walker]

Well, that got super awkward super quickly. And you can tell, I mean, look, a personal life aside, and she does seem like she's a very unusual personality in terms of her psychology. I think Nicki Minaj is one of the best rappers of her generation, but she's not really good at ad libbing in this weird situation. You can hear her kind of trying to find, trying to fumble her way into what the crowd will like to hear her say. So she's relieved that she gets that first laugh from a really dumb joke about not being news gum and then how she sort of haltingly finds her way towards saying that Trump is handsome. Yeah, it's just all a disaster.

[Derek Barris]

I fall on the Cardi B side of the spectrum here. I've never really been a Minaj fan, but also Cardi both her music but also her person. If you've ever seen her, she's a huge Eleanor Roosevelt fan. She did a whole interview with Stephen Colbert about visiting Eleanor Roosevelt's house. All like history buff. And I, I've. A lot of stuff has been coming out because Minaj and Cardi B have been beefing for a long like 10 years at least. And in 2024 Cardi B wrote a tweet saying lol, I'll never be a Republican. And. And so. And it was probably to do with what was happening with Minaj slowly moving in this direction. Yeah. Speaking to what she said though, I should note that Erica went on for a good minute. I just didn't want to play all of it where she kept fumbling min. Humble there. And. And then Minaj is. Looks like she's breaking down in tears at that point because she realized she up and went off script. And then she comes back with this whole like for 30 seconds she just keeps repeating boys will be boys. Which is weird.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah.

[Derek Barris]

So it was really. The whole thing was like a good three minute chunk that was just absurd. I didn't want to make you listen to all of that, but you can easily find it online. And then the new scum quote, which you said because Gavin Newsom is at the moment expected to lead the 2028 Dem Democratic presidential pack, so there were a lot of attacks on him during the conference. And overall, speaking of though Erica recently endorsed current Vice President J.D. vance as the Republicans 2028 nominee. And boy, she'd Been trotting him around. After claiming in his speech, Vance's speech, that we've abolished DEI to the dustbin of history. To rousing applause, we got a strong hint at how he's trying to build his coalition in the United States of America. You don't have to apologize for being white anymore. So, Julian, are you happy? You don't have to apologize for being white?

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, I mean, it's been decades really, since I've been living in this country that I felt incredibly oppressed as a white male over 6ft tall who likes women. It's, it's just, you know, it's, it's been a, it's been a tough road and I'm thinking of.

[Derek Barris]

Right, well, it's over. You can, you can be yourself now. You can be your white self.

[Julian Walker]

It's, it's, it's a, it's a calm. It's a calming, soothing feeling I get from JD Vance.

[Derek Barris]

Vance also discussed who was on his team, which is those who love America. He just very much. That was his bar. Apparently that was actually a sub theme throughout the weekend. The left hates America. The good old people of Phoenix, though, those are the patriots. Michael Knowles also expressed this exact sentiment. He is the host of the Dallas Wires, the Michael no Noel show, which launched in 2017. He's also become more radical over the years, though. He's always opposed same sex marriage and he really hit a stride on his show with the anti trans rhetoric. He co hosted a podcast with Ted Cruz for two years. If you want to assess his character or you can just listen now to who's on his team.

[Michael Knowles]

To be on the team, you have to acknowledge that there is such a thing as the American people. We're not just an idea floating in outer space. We are a real people with a real historical lineage and a real historical destiny. We came here on the Mayflower, which is a great cigar brand, by the way. We came here.

[Derek Barris]

Thank you.

[Michael Knowles]

We came here on other ships as well. We landed at Plymouth and Jamestown. We fought a war of independence and plenty of wars after that. We spread across the continent. We have a real historical experience and character that is not magically imbued through a few lines of philosophy or a naturalization pop quiz. At different times, we've taken in foreigners. When it's worked, those foreigners have come to act and talk and even look like us. When it hasn't worked, they haven't. If you prefer the flag of some other nation, the customs and habits of some other people, People, you are not on my Team. If you are and want to be a member of the American people, you are on my team.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah.

[Julian Walker]

So I'm hearing several contradictory things. I mean, this guy loves the sound of his voice so much, and he thinks he's really smart and eloquent, and then he. He can't resist a little plug for his cigar company called Mayflower. But it's like he's rejecting anyone who became a citizen after the 1600s. Right. Because those are the real people of America who spread across the continent. You know, mention of the people they were displ. Placing or. I don't know, those were not real Americans, I guess. And then there's that pivot, right? Because you can't truly be an American by taking the citizenship test and learning a few lines for a pop quiz and learning the history. But there's some kind of weird implication that you get transmorgified through the process of becoming a conservative so that you come to look like Michael Knowles. And I guess as long as you're willing to espouse Christian nationalist bigoted beliefs, then you're on his team. Do you think I got it?

[Derek Barris]

Yeah. That was some real skin whitening that was going on right there in that implication. And the whole thing, though, as I said, it's in the water here in terms of Christian nationalism. It always has been, but it is really coming to the surface. And to make that point, I want to leave Amfest for a moment because that broader trend on the American right is so startling, it won't come as any surprise to anyone with common sense. But another the Daily Wire host Mount Walsh, who sadly wasn't at the conference, but was retweeting clips of it all weekend, including one that included that called Vance's speech Pitch Perfect. Well, he announced his new series on the Daily Wire this week, and you might hear some echoes of what you just heard with Knowles.

[Matt Walsh]

They told you America invented slavery. They told you the Indians were peaceful. They told you colonialism was evil and that Joseph McCarthy was a bad guy. And guess what? They lied. For half a century, generations of American school children have been taught to hate our history, hate our country, and hate themselves. Time to set the record straight. And since no one else is going to do it, I will. Who sold us the slaves? What were India and Africa like before Europeans arrived? What caused white flight? Some of the most well known stories from American history are designed to demoralize you. Trail of Tears, Smallpox, Blanket Smith, the Red Scare. It's all baseless. It's time for a lesson on what they're not teaching in public schools on the real history of slavery, of colonialism, of the Indians of America and the world. It's time for Real History with Matt Walsh.

[Julian Walker]

I mean, I was very, very critical for a long time of the most enthusiastic voices from the left who were constantly crying white supremacy years ago. This is straight up. White supremacy, colonialism, slavery, what the British did in India, the Trail of Tears, the Native American Genocide, Joe McCarthy. No, these actually, you've got it all wrong. These were all. These were all white heroes. Like, it's really disgusting.

[Derek Barris]

No one ever said Americans invented slavery. We took chattel slavery to the next level and actually kind of made the rest of the world be like, oh, we gotta stop this eventually, after a long time. And we were the last to stop it. But we didn't invent. Like, no one says the things that he's saying. Again, he creates this caricature of the American left and then puts it out as if that's what you're taught in public schools, which is absolutely not the case. But. But if it's a vibe, it's a vibe that was alive all throughout Amfest that weekend.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, it's a vibe. And especially with this, this particular clip, you know, you've got the cellos and you've got the, the evocative kind of flute sounds, and everything is very dramatic. And he's the only one who can really tell you the truth that you won't learn in public school.

[Derek Barris]

And he's going to get a lot of people watching this. It's really, really sad. And even though he wasn't an infest, I'm sure he's going to try out for next year. And, and he, he will have some impact, I'm sure, in some public school communities across the country with this.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he's there next year. Particularly as we observe the fallout that that is. Seems to be inevitable here with, as you referenced a little bit earlier, Ben Shapiro going on stage, being super critical of Candace Owens, super critical of Tucker Carlson, super critical of Megan Kelly, and then Tucker Carlson going on and being really critical of Ben Shapiro. And they're, they're all fighting. And honestly, most of it turns on Israel, most of it turns on what's happening in Gaza and how it's being framed and who. Who is and who isn't supposedly being anti Semitic. So it's, it's an interesting. I definitely am grabbing popcorn to see how they, how it all shakes out.

[Derek Barris]

The only way that this sort of extremism and radicalist activism which is happening on the right historically goes down is they eat themselves. They will eat themselves at some point when they start to lose. They'll claw on each other to try to get power. They will turn on each other because it's not about community. It is about coalition building and using one another, but it's not about actually helping out a broad swath of people. So this, this is inevitable. Inevitable. I'll have the popcorn too. My fear has always been across what we're seeing here and across the administration is what they take down in the process. And I think that's something we'll be covering heavily in January given all of what's happening with Marco Rubio and RFK Jr. It was just announced today that Rubio is going on this big anti censorship complex. Specifically they're calling out Imran Ahmed, a multi time guest here on this podcast, as, as someone who, you know, they've sanctioned him now and they've sanctioned a few other people and Kennedy's jumping into this like there is a lot going on. I think, I think we've kind of hit an accelerat liberationist pivot right now with this administration because they're looking at the midterms and they realize they got to get as much as possible done because they're going to get trounced and they are going to really expedite a lot of the bad they've been doing in early 2026. Another theme that was persistent throughout Amfest was how oppressed Christians in America are just like the tall white men. You know, we've been oppressed while the Christians too. Alex Clark lamented about it. Nicki Minaj said we really need turn back toward God and on and on down the line. Which brings us to someone who made a hard right turn toward the Bible after being credibly accused of sexual assault. If you are a regular listener of this podcast, you're going to know this voice. We have not yet tried to create the Christian nation that America may yet become. As an Englishman, as a visitor, I pray that you're able to do it it. I pray that you can build a Christian America to be a shining city on a hill, an exemplar for the rest of the world. I pray that in the name of the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit. Oh boy. In these episodes you don't always listen to the clips before Julian. So I, I know we don't do video podcasts, but your eye rolls are tremendous at moments like that.

[Julian Walker]

Well, I Mean, he's, he's, he's invoking not only the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but a Saint Ronald. Right. With the, his, with his rhetoric. Incredible.

[Derek Barris]

And the idea that we've never tried to become a Christian nation, like, again, it's just a caricature. They only have caricatures that they have to build as if their reality in order to make people feel justified in the horrible actions that they're doing.

[Julian Walker]

And you notice, too, that even Russell Brand, with his seemingly authentic, extroverted, sort of stream of consciousness patter that he does, he still has in the back of his mind. I should be careful here because I'm not really in a. American, I need to say, as a visitor. Right. I need, he needs to, like, position himself just Right. And then I, I know that you, you clip this for our Instagram, the whole thing about how he used to be vegan.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah.

[Julian Walker]

And then, you know, he's up there. I, I, I often have, like, just a little glimmer of feeling bad for Russell because he, he does have a quick mind. And he's up there being like, you know, I used to be a vegan and now I eat meat. And then they, they got a big chair and he said, don't tell me that you're more of a favor of being a carnivore than being in, being in love with the incarnation. And he does this whole thing about the spirit being made flesh as a riff on, like, eating meat.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah.

[Julian Walker]

And you can tell that the crowd is just sort of like, they're not at his level of, of like, wordplay and intellectual quickness. And it's just like, oh, Russell, you're kind of dying up there. You're not getting the cutter.

[Derek Barris]

Oh, right. You can't be at that level because it's just, it's just his ADHD kicking in and you're trying to, he's trying to make connections in real time. You actually, if you go to our Instagram and watch that video, you can see that he was almost a little surprised by the applause because he was trying to move on. And so he just had to try to bust out something, some sort of connection. It was really sloppy. I mean, Trump does this all the time. Like, when he sees something hits, he just starts to play on it. And as, as I, I don't want to say elegant as Russell is, I mean, because the Gish gallop is phenomenal. He can really turn over thoughts quickly and sometimes they do connect, but in certain cases they do not that he just sort of flailed through that one. Yeah.

[Julian Walker]

And. But it makes me think of a Russell Brand from like, you know, I don't know when it was maybe the 2010s or something when he was breaking through as a stand up comedian and that stream of consciousness kind of. There was a, there was a rawness and a vulnerability and a cleverness to his stream of consciousness that really was hitting and it was speaking to an audience and people were captivated by him and loving him and now he's just a shell of whatever that set of talents was. You know. Of course now we have a lot more conflic context of what else was going on in his world.

[Derek Barris]

Well, I was in Los Angeles at the time when he was there in the yoga community, so were you. And we. I can speak pretty confident about something that happens in wellness and yoga spaces where it is really affect that drives the feeling that people have towards someone. So it's this whole play, people usually turn to things like daoism where you know, you have a little black in the half of the white circle and vice versa and, and they use that as this sort of metaph for everything being connected. And so when Russell goes on this stream of consciousness, what's really happening is you're looking at a celebrity who's in your yoga class and you're just like, it doesn't matter what he says, it, it all is deep and it all just makes sense on some level that is beyond cognition and that is literally how people will present it as and why they fall into these paras, parasocial traps with a person like Russell Brand. Because if you just go read the transcript and try to make sense of it, you can'. That. But it's not actually about that.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, I mean the best example of what you're talking about to me is actually David Wolf, David Avocado Wolf, where like everything he said would be held up as some kind of amazing cosmic insight. And it was just all absolutely banal nonsense.

[Derek Barris]

I saw it live. I mean I did a lot of events with David and just being in the room, DJing events he was at, co hosting and presenting with him. Like he would just say things and people just starry eyed fawn over it. And when you step back you're like the sun. Chocolate is an octave of the sun, son.

[Julian Walker]

Like what?

[Derek Barris]

And you would just be what the. So last clip I want to roll here. Something that really struck me. It struck me for a while, but then I, I made a video on our feed yesterday and I'm going to Explore it in next week's episode with Mallory DeMille's coming back about nicotine a little more in depth. But the what's become apparent is the right and I want to talk about like Maha, I also want to talk about MAGA and everyone in this sphere. Their power is in pretending they're powerless. Remember, the right MAGA controls every branch and lever of government right now, but they're always presenting everything as if there's still this deep state that is still moving pieces around. They are the deep state. They are. They control all of it. But they have to pretend that they don't yet have power. It comes through and what we were talking about, about feeling okay that your wife it comes through with the we've never tried a Christian nation yet. It's this idea that we're always, they are always up and coming on this thing instead of the fact that they're controlling everything. So in that mindset, the last clip is Alex Clark. She is the host of Cultural Apothecary. She said she's the conservative's most popular health and wellness podcaster. To me, calling this radical political movement conservative is truly unfair to actual conservatives. Like, I can disagree with Reagan conservatives like Joe Scarborough. There's the David Brooks, there's a whole host of them who present themselves as Reagan conservatives. And I can have problems with their policies and their beliefs on certain things, but they are not maga. They are not radical activists. People like Tim Miller and the Bulwark, people like the Lincoln Project who have come out who were conservatives and are really just abhorred by what MAG is doing. I don't know if I use that verb correctly, but they hate everything maga. So when people like Alex Clark say I'm a conservative, it's actual absolute.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah. I mean, everyone you listed, they're serious people. Like, you can disagree with their politics and, and you know, have plenty to argue with them about. But the feeling is you'd be arguing with a serious person who has a of view, who's logically consistent. Even if you think they're, they're wrong, these MAGA people, it's just like it's, it's all of that is completely out the window.

[Derek Barris]

No. And that is a sub theme again of Turning Points USA writ large. It is not about unity or community. It's only about power. And if you're not on board with their perception of power and how to get it, you are out. Let's listen to how Alex Clark toes that line that is so indicative of many of her Il we are in.

[Alex Clark]

The middle of a baby making health crisis and this is not a left right issue. This is a future, no future issue. In our mission to make America healthy again. There are lobbyists right now trying to infiltrate the conservative movement. People who want to protect profit and industry over people including vulnerable children. If we care about Maha, we have to stay on main. We have to define our terms and we have to decide what legacy we're leaving behind. Because a movement that won't protect children's bodies will not ever protect the country. Big Chemical, Big Ag and Big Food are trying to split MAGA from Maha so things can go back to business as usual. But we don't want that, do we? There are people in this very room who would rather I not say what I'm about to say today. But I'm saying it anyway.

[Julian Walker]

Wow. Well, she, well she, she starts off boldly right as, as we, as we shared again on our Instagram saying that she basically steps up to the mic. You can see her take a breath before she says it because she knows that she's wading into the pool. Right. I am the number one influencer in this particular position. Whatever her exact, exact words were about being a, a Maha kind of champion. And it's, it's amazing that she, she goes to these places. Like there are people in this room. Like she's very strongly trying to polarize. Even while she's saying that Big Chemical and Big Agriculture, etc want to split MAGA from Maha, she's in her own way trying to say like you, you're gonna, you're gonna align with me against these imaginary enemies in the room who don't want me to say this right.

[Derek Barris]

Which is something she probably I picked up with a former guest of hers and, and someone she's friends with Cali means who last year at a wash. I think it was a Washington Post event. It might, it was a media event, but did the same thing. He was like most everyone in this room doesn't want to hear what I'm saying. You're all lobbyists and I'm going to tell you the truth. And, and, and again it, it plays to that. You know, again, they don't want unity, they want power. She is indicative of that and she presented it. But like when she says Big Ag, Big Pharma, all these people again, again, this administration is following Project 2025 to a TE. Yeah. Everything that's in that document they are doing. Heritage foundation is a pro business deregulatory organization. That's all they care about is getting as much out of social services and as much into the private market as possible. Maga has been doing that. Maha is one letter away way. There is no daylight between Maga and Maha. So to pretend that there are these players who are in and trying to wedge their way in. They've been in. They, those are the people. Those are the deregulatory, pro private market people who are making all of the regulations and legislation right now. And what Maha does is they do some handshake deals about some food dyes that will probably never actually come to pass and they present that as a win and meet. Meanwhile, they're just destroying every environmental regulation, every food policy regulation. Behind the scenes. Not even behind the scenes. You can, you can observe this, you can watch what's happening, but they are following the Heritage foundation playbook. So when Alex Clark says all these things, it's like, these are your friends doing this. Don't pretend you're fighting them. You are part of them.

[Julian Walker]

Yeah, absolutely. And this, you know the, the implication beneath the surface of all of this, right. If you connect the dots, is that beef tal instead of seed oils and getting rid of red dye number four, whatever the hell it is, that somehow this is going to thwart the great replacement, the project. Right. That, that somehow white babies are going to now suddenly be on the ascendancy again because we've made America healthy and you know, we've stopped the plot of replacing everyone with immigrants so that the damn progressives can have, you know, transgender mixed race people in every position about power.

[Derek Barris]

Yeah. Why would you open the speech with a baby making crisis?

[Julian Walker]

Like what?

[Derek Barris]

There is, there is no other like again, just read the transcripts. You can listen to them, but if you just read and connect the dots, it's all right.

[Julian Walker]

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[Derek Barris]

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[Derek Barris]

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[Derek Barris]

So that means a half day.

[Julian Walker]

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[Derek Barris]

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[Julian Walker]

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[Matt Walsh]

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