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Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply Lululemon's new drop of daily essentials feels like a
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today.
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A
You know Maha is bringing chiropractic into the heart of this movement. This is a prevention first, drug free, hands on care, and the largest profession of its kind in this country. And it's exactly what we mean when we say make America healthy. So, you know, there are 70,000 chiropractors in this country treating nearly 30 million people, and we're done managing sickness and reaching for the prescription pad. This is about building health, getting people off opioids, getting people off drugs, you know, thinking about which vaccines, if any, vaccines people need to take and giving families real choices, real alternatives. So today we're launching the Maha Chiropractic Hub. Oh, fuck, Julian, here we go.
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B
It's Groundhog Day. Welcome.
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A
That's Tony Lyons, RFK Jr. S close friend, publisher, pack organizer during the weekly MAHA Action Call on June 4th. I've been tracking this hub since then, but when I received an email from the Maha Report on Tuesday, I realized we needed to cover this. The article was entitled Chiropractic Care is Ready for its Close up. A once marginalized profession is becoming a growing force in the Maha movement. And it became really clear to me how Maha is going to use this pseudoscience as a Trojan horse for its anti vaccine, pro natural medicine agenda. Today I want to go over the objectives of the chiropractor hub by letting some of the organizers speak for themselves what this could mean for American health care and how I believe Kennedy is helping funnel money earmarked for actual scientific research into this ghost religion, as it's called. We'll get to that, but first I want to briefly look at the history of chiropractic to orient this conversation. Does that sound good?
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B
No, it does not sound good at all. But Derek, it's previously been marginalized. So this is actually very progressive and very enlightened. You could say it's even kind of woke. I'm still trying to catch my breath from the sort of mild mannered, matter of fact insanity of the Tony Lyons clip. You know, prevention first drug free, hands on care as a way to get people off opioids and vaccines. What are we talking about? We're going to do spinal joint manipulation and then that'll just fix everything. Yeah. I mean, here we go.
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A
Let's see. It'll all become clear by the end, Julian.
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B
All right.
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A
And I'm Derek Barris.
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B
And I am Julian Walker.
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A
And as always, you can find us on Instagram and threads at conspiritualitypod as well as individually on bluesky. And if you are able to support us, we are independent media creators doing this work so we could use it. You can access all of our episodes ad free, plus our Monday bonus episodes on patreon@patreon.com conspirituality. You can also grab grab our Monday bonus episodes via Apple subscriptions.
- [04:02]
B
Yeah, we appreciate your support because we don't have our own super pac. And before we start today, I need to issue a really important correction in our brief from last week about Graham Platner. I made a mistake. I said that AAPAC spends between 3 million and $5 million a year funding political candidates. And it turns out that that number was actually an average that was not taking into account or accurately reflecting the hu in their spending since 2021. So that's my mistake. In the current cycle, they are in fact the biggest spender funding candidates to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. So I want to thank the listeners who pointed that out to me.
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A
And I'll just reiterate what I said last week. Get AIPAC money out of our politics and get all lobbying money out of our politics.
- [04:51]
B
Hear, hear. The chiropractors are committed to healing. And I know there are so many millions of Americans whom their chiropractor is absolutely critical to their happiness, to their health, the health of their families and the health of their children because they're not looking at these problems in silos. They're looking at healing the whole person. I'm so grateful that this profession for that commitment is made to their patients and the American people. And, you know, I want to do everything that we can do in our power to make sure that you get parody on Capitol Hill because you're healing people.
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A
I'm sure, you know, millions of Americans, Bobby, you've never been prone to hyperbole.
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B
No, he knows them all personally, Derek. But this just sounds like, I mean, listening to what he said and the tone and the, and the generalities, it's like he's returning a favor for a friend who blurbs one of his books by saying some nice things about chiropractic. It sounds super generic to me.
- [06:02]
A
Right, but. But put a pin in that parody part because that has to do with the funding issue we're going to get into in a little bit. Let's backtrack first, though, because, you know, chiropractic has been in the health care system for a long time. People don't know a ton about it. So I think it's important to educate people on where it comes from. We've done full episodes on Dodispenza before, for example, where we've covered some of this. But let's, let's just backtrack for a moment. Chiropractic was founded by Daniel David Palmer, a Canadian born magnetic healer who ran a wellness clinic in Davenport, Iowa in the 1880s. The origin of back cracking occurred on September 18, 1895, when Palmer treated a partially deaf janitor named Harvey Lillard by applying pressure to a vertebra he believed was out of place. Lillard reported that his hearing improved after the pressure, which Palmer took as as proof that spinal misalignments could cause disease throughout the body. It's very sciency deduction that he made. Palmer also loves spiritualism and seances, of course, claiming he received the concept of spinal adjustment from the spirit of a doctor who had died decades earlier. This is why chiropractic is sometimes rightfully referred to as a ghost religion, rooted in metaphysical claims about invisible healing forces, which rather than things like anatomy, physiology and biology, as we'll soon hear, no matter how much the Maha folk are trying to dress it up as science, the practice still honors its metaphysical origins.
- [07:44]
B
Yeah, and it's important to note here, you know, these are my nerdy preoccupations and a lot of stuff I've covered in bonus episodes. This is a time period in the mid to late 19th century where seances, spiritualism being a trance medium, mesmerism, all of these influences coming from Europe, including from Emanuel Swedenborg, this was all very, very popular, especially in the northeast of the United States. And you know, it's, it's, this is the time when theosophy gets going as well. So it's, it's very much at the center of what I refer to as the roots of conspirituality. Chiropractic is woven right through those roots.
- [08:22]
A
I'm sure that Palmer was reading ISIS Unveiled and the Secret Doctrine and all of Blavatsky's works. He combined Greek words for hand and action to create chiropractic. So chiropractic is hand action. That's what it literally means. Palmer's son bj Hand action and bj. This is. This is getting good. He wanted to professionalize chiropractic, moving it away from the ghosts. And this is known in the lore as the rift between straits and mixers. Straits believe all disease stems from from spinal subluxations interfering with nerve flow and that spinal adjustment alone is the legitimate treatment. Mixers began incorporating heat massage, exercise and nutrition into the practice in order to make it seem more credible. That's sort of why we have all these chiropractors selling supplements and talking about diet these days. And it does come from that tradition, even though they never actually study nutrition, but they feel compelled to talk about it. BJ might have taken a more holistic approach, but he was also an opportunist. I've done full episodes on the Flexner Report which set rigorous science based accreditation standards for medical schools. Homeopathy, eclectic medicine and chiropractic didn't make the cut for standardized education post 1910. That's why Maha fans continue to deride the Flexner Report to this day. I did a whole bonus episode on how Cali means. RFK Jr. S senior advisor and supplement salesman continually misrepresents what Abraham Flexner did. But suffice to say, the report is why the US became a leader in medical education and care. Despite Maha's insistence on taking us back to the 19th century. Chiropractic became less popular at that time, but it never disappeared. In the 1960s, the American Medical association formed a committee on quackery. Awesome. With the stated mission of containment and eventual elimination of chiropractic. And it never worked. Chiropractic's path to mainstream acceptance came through licensure, litigation and insurance inclusion rather than scientific validation. And that's really important here. By 1974, chiropractic was licensed in all 50 states. Congress authorized Medicare payments for chiropractic services in 1972. I was reading a book written in the 80s about alternative medicine and preparation and the author was a doctor. I forget his name right now, but he was saying, you know, chiropractic is an adjective and. But it's presented as a noun here. He prefers the term chiropractis, which I really like, but I'm going to keep using chiropractic. But I just wanted to point that out.
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B
Yeah.
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A
The decisive legal turning point for the industry was Wilk versus ama, and it was filed by a chiropractor named Chester Wilk and others, in which a federal Judge ruled in 1987 that the AMA had engaged in an illegal conspiracy to destroy chiropractic. And the ruling was upheld on final appeal in 1990. That case opened the door to broader cooperation between medical doctors and chiropractors, and it cleared the way for private insurers to cover chiropractic care more widely. Throughout the 1990s, this cemented its place as a licensed, reimbursed part of our healthcare system, even though subluxation theory has never been validated. And to me, that's the real absurd part of this entire story. I'm going to run clips in a moment. You're going to hear about how chiropractic resets the nervous system, which is the plank that the MAHA chiropractic hub is building its foundation on. But it's just a modern rebrand of the older subluxation theory. And this is the idea that spinal misalignments or subluxations interfere with nerve flow and that spinal adjustments correct this interference and improve communication between brain and body, immune function and stress response. Some small studies have been conducted and they support a nervous system effect. Now, for example, there's one that looks at upper cervical adjustments that modestly increased heart rate variability or lower cortisol shortly after treatment. But this brief intervention shows absolutely nothing about resetting the nervous system as being a mechanism that treats disease or restores general health, which is the plank that MAHA specifically is running on here.
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B
Yeah. And I. I mean, I've even heard chiropractors be honest about the fact that there is a small percentage chance that those upper cervical adjustments could lead to a stroke.
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A
Yes. And in the article that I referenced, they specifically say it's been proven that chiropractic does not cause a strok. Do they link to a study or explain it further? No, of course not. They just say that in the article. The core subluxation theory has never been objectively demonstrated. You can't see it on an X ray, MRI, or a CT scan. Plus, there's no agreed physical definition of what it even is yet. You're going to hear chiropractors claim that adjustments help cure asthma, immune dysfunction and digestive issues, as well as treat pain, which is a common one. You're going to hear maha and there's a reason for that. Mainstream evidence supports spinal, spinal manipulation for one thing, mechanical low back pain and some neck pain where it performs comparably to other conservative treatments like physical therapy. Before we get back into Maha, this is where I concur in the very, I'm going to be very specific on this. I broke numerous bones growing up and I had a lot of physical problems as a teenager and college student. I used to have to need help getting out of bed with for my mother in high school. Like I was in a lot of pain and I had hundreds of chiropractic sessions and the adjustment, along with stem and massage, to be clear, did alleviate my symptoms. But I also had chiropractors tell me that I was going to be a patient for life, which proved untrue. Once I worked with physical therapists and through my own research as a phys, as a fitness instructor, and then I strengthened parts of my back and legs that were underdeveloped. I just want to be clear that I'm not a full hater of chiropractic. And it did get me through very painful times in my life. But had I known about my imbalances and strength in those regions earlier, I would have never needed a chiropractor.
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B
Yeah, this is my experience exactly. I personally only ever sought out and received chiropractic care as a manual therapy in conjunction with yoga and massage. And as such it was kind of hit and miss. But there were occasions where it often really seemed to help, especially when my neck would be jammed up and it would get adjusted and the bones would sort of be realigned and go, oh, that feels a lot better. But I also balked at these long term treatment plans that I found, you know, at different chiropractic offices as they would try to get me to commit to like, you're going to come this many times a week for the first month and then this many times for the second. You'll be here and you'll keep coming and then you'll still need to come in every now and again for some, for some maintenance and, and that was especially the case when liability insurance was footing the bill, like after a car accident. I remember going through this where I was like, oh, and they're, they're billing me at twice as much as they used to charge me because it's going to the insurance companies. There's some unethical practices that I think are sometimes baked in. Some of that is due to, you know, problems in our healthcare system for sure.
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C
Right.
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A
And the irony is that chiropractors are often part of the MAHA crew that say pharma is just trying to get you on their products for life.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And they do the same shit now. I just want to say my last two chiropractors who I saw my 30s, both said to me, one in New York and one in la, that the. My goal is to get you to not see me anymore. And they incorporated physical therapy and massage and they showed me things to do at home. And in both cases, for two different problems, I ended up not seeing them anymore. So, you know, I. Some people sometimes, you know, and especially in our media environment say, you know, you can't be nuanced in these things. I did find relief. Some family members still go, it's fine.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And.
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B
And I want to shout out Dr. Bob, who help me so much in my twenties and was not at all predatory and definitely didn't want to see me all the time. So there are great people out there who sincerely use these tools and are not characterized in the way that I was just speaking.
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A
Yeah. And there's one I see on threads a lot who's a sports chiropractor who works at a clinic with physical therapists who's all about debunking chiropractic misinformation. I do think there's a range here, but what we're talking about today is not that. So let's turn to the MAHA chiropractic hub.
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C
I saw that chiropractic representative presents a different approach to health care, one that really focuses on supporting the body rather than immediately medicating symptoms.
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B
Wow. The generic Pablum just won't quit. Like you could. You could fill in the blank with whatever you wanted to say here. It's a different way of approaching medicine that just doesn't just treat the symptoms. We've been hearing this pitch for decades, but I do think it's probably new and intriguing for a lot of recent MAHA converts to alternative medicine.
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A
True, true. And you just heard Lee Marinoff. She is the senior vice president of the MAHA center and triple board certified medical doctor. Next. Wait. Oh, I'm sorry. No. She's a trained sculptor and she now runs a raw milk dairy in Vermont.
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B
No.
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A
She's also a proud longtime member of the Weston A. Price Foundation. We've covered them often. And she sits on the board of Children's Health Defense, RFK Junior's anti vax nonprofit. And that language you kind of flag there supports the body rather than immediately medicating is actually why they've chosen chiropractic as a Trojan horse for the anti vax agenda. Let's listen to her go on to explain the goal of the Hub.
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C
Our goal is simple. It's to help support chiropractic as an essential evidence, informed prevention, first component of a sustainable American health care system. All right.
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B
Right.
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A
Let me translate for you. They are trying to get the healthcare system to elevate chiropractic as a legitimate medical practice despite the lack of scientific evidence, and offer more people chiropractic services so the industry can make more money. It's. It's really that simple. It's part of the anti vax agenda. It's the way that they snake in these alternative practices. And we teased this a few weeks ago, unknowingly, to be honest, and when we were discussing on our main episode the Office of Budget and Management's policy proposal that would shift oversight of more than $1 trillion of federal grants across 42 different agencies to politicians instead of medical and science experts. Instead of that money going toward research into things like health disparities in different socioeconomic regions or vaccine or cancer research, Kennedy is now going to have the power to redirect that cash into chiropractic offices for research if this policy proposal passes. That is the real Trojan horse here. Now, the next speaker on that Maha action call was Brandon Hoffman. He is the MAHA chiropractor Hubs executive director. His day job is as market development executive for Cairo Secure, where he has a specialty in risk management and managing complex coverage relationships, I. E. Give me the loot. Get that money over here. To chiropractors. He actually works on billing coding for the World Health Organization. So he is a seasoned bureaucrat. That's why he lays out the hubs four goals for 2026. For 2026, we have four priorities that advance the Hub's mission. First, a national public education campaign so patients and policymakers and employers understand what
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B
we can do to build a healthier America.
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A
Second, modernizing Medicare through the bipartisan Chiropractic Medicare Coverage Modernization act. Giving seniors the full scope of chiropractic care that they are trained on without providing drugs and surgery. Third, expanding care and choice for our service members and veterans who deserve the absolute best options after their service to our country. And fourth, building more robust research and grant opportunities. I mean, you hear it all there. Expanding Medicare to include more chiropractic care for seniors. And the choice of chiropractic for veterans, which of course follows in the wake of Maha's rage that the US Military had to get those damn Covid jabs. The more robust research and grant opportunities part made my ears perked up, up, because as I just said a few moments ago, that is the explicit goal. And they want to redirect that federal money into them. And, you know, it also fits into Kennedy's old make the proof of their practice, because remember those scientific journals Kennedy's friends spun up at the beginning of his tenure at HH Secretary? They're going to come quite. They're going to come in quite handy for chiropractors very soon.
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B
There's something so wild about this, which is that they have espoused, Kennedy and his ilk, have espoused for years, if not decades, their belief that the actual medical science institutions and oversight bodies have just been lying and that they're just corrupt and that they don't care about babies and children and they're killing people. And it's all just hopelessly biased. And you can't get any objective truth out of it. Instead of coming in and, you know, trying to enact reform of these supposed corrupt practices, it's like they came in and went, well, those guys were corrupt and biased. So we're going to be corrupt and biased in our own way. They just want. They just make the proof out of thin air that vaccines work. We're just going to make the proof over here with our, you know, with all of these conflicts of interest and as you said, these kind of highly questionable scientific journals, you know, it's. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what the truth is. They're not actually interested in the truth. And so they're trying to create what sounds to me like a kind of cultural revolution around chiropractic awareness and perception. Like, let's get everyone on board with this. And then this somehow dovetails with institutional legitimization and funding. And it's really bizarre, right?
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A
And these people have gotten really good at the language. I mean, bureaucrats are always good at language if you're not really paying attention. We talk about Gish Gala, but it's also this bureaucratic speak where it just sounds. Even Hoffman, who you just heard it sounds very straightforward. Until. Until you read the transcript and then you look at what they're actually doing. Because if you just listen to that, you'd be like, oh, that all makes sense. There was nothing outlandish in that. And that's true of the next speaker, too, who's a little more charismatic, a little more energetic. But the distance between what he says and the actual research that exists is vast. And his name is Tony Ebel. He is an actual chiropractor who specializes in pediatric chiropractic and, and nervous system reset. I mean, he calls this practice like neuro chiropractic. And I found no evidence of actual neuroscience or neurological training. But you don't need that for this, obviously. Like chiropractor to the ancient God Ramtha, Joe Dispenza, who cosplays as a neuroscientist all the time, people likes to fashion himself as a nervous system expert without the training. He tells a long anecdote during his session on the call about how his son almost died after being bored. I mean, horrible, horrific.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And to his credit, he does say emergency medical care saved his son's life. He was very clear about that. But even then, in that part, you see the opportunism. He talks about how his. He was adjusting his infant son two to three times a day while he was in the nicu. And he claimed that helped his son survive. So think about that. He was doing spinal adjustments supposedly while his son was in the intensive care unit. And he was saying, well, it was both of them. It was, it was that and it was the chiropractic.
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B
Yeah. Which you could equally well say for praying over him or doing some kind of ritual in the corner of the NICU involving, you know, a chicken, I don't know. And.
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A
And then he touts the Maha rhetoric of Western medicine is great for critical care, but we're providing a practice so you ultimately don't even need to see those doctors. So I'm going to let him pick
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B
it up from there.
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C
So here's what I believe. With everything in me, every parent, every parent, every family, every patient should have a team of doctors working in collaboration, not competing, not siloed. A team working around the whole child and the whole patient. And if we sat down and constructed that perfect team for one struggling child, I'll tell you where we should start. The first door a family walks through should be the neurologically focused pediatric and family chiropractor and PX doc. Why? First, it's the safest, lowest side effect profile option out there. And it's proactive, active, not reactive. We're not waiting for the crisis. We're building the foundation before the storm ever hits. The foundation of health is the nervous system. It runs everything. It's the mom of the body. It knows everything, runs everything, keeps it all coordinated. But when that system is dysregulated, each downstream system, one at A time gut, immune, endocrine goes offline and now there's symptoms from that. So instead of chasing each symptom or working on an individual system, chiropractors work on the foundation that restores and rebuilds where all of that comes together. And then we take that education and empowerment piece so seriously that we help redesign the entire trajectory of the whole family. We shift our patients lifestyle and we can help transform a whole community towards a genuinely healthier way of living.
- [27:03]
A
That is a whole lot of words for back crack about my blood pressure.
- [27:07]
B
Pressure is through the roof right now. And, and it, and the main trigger is when they talk about kids.
- [27:12]
C
Yeah.
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B
They talk about babies. And, and you know, even what the joke I made about you could be praying or you could be doing a ritual in the corner. The difference is he's actually manipulating a newborn infant's spine. He's, he's fortunate that he didn't do any damage, let alone claiming that that was the thing that saved the child's life rather than the NICU or, or you know, put them on the road to recovery. We, yeah.
- [27:37]
A
Help support. Right, right, right. He's, you can hear he's got passion. He spins a fanciful tale. So you know, sign him up, get him in there on the Maha stage because he is charismatic and that's what Maha did. A few minutes later during the call, another chiropractor who we've covered, Eric Berg, discussed natural remedies for Lyme disease, which is another big kick Maha has been on lately. So they've been pimping homeopathy as a real way to prevent and treat Lyme. And now they're saying all this about chiropractic. So at least they stay on brand.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah. And Eric Berg has a massive, massive following. He's very, very influential. And I'm telling you, man, I have to cop to this. If, if this way of framing all of this stuff had come along in the 90s, I probably would have been all in. Like, it's all, they're hitting all of the right, you know, buzzwords and it, I know for me and a lot of people I came up with in my 20s, this was one of our dreams to have a kind of mind, body network or to have a healing center with all these different practitioners working together in a way that would, you know, overcome the mechanistic western medicine model. And it is an appealing vision, even if at the end of the day it's empty of so much of the benefit that it aspires to provide. And I just want to say I'm so glad that I only contracted Lyme disease after I had grown out of this nonsense so I could get real medical treatment and make a full recovery. Because I could have been, been, you know, on this endless cycle of just chasing, you know, a fantasy and gotten sicker and sicker.
- [29:14]
A
Right. And I also have a feeling that because there is a Lyme disease vaccine being tested, that's kind of giving some expediency to why Maha is pimping homeopathy so hard. Because they want to get ahead of that. They, they really do that. They're doing that with peptides too. They're trying to get ahead of research. And what bothers me and I, I have no evidence for this. I'm just putting pieces together. But Kennedy now has access to all of this sort of research that's coming down the pipeline that the public doesn't have access to. And who knows if his team is looking at this stuff and being like, these are, these are pressure points we can lean on for our own friends to sort of get ahead of upcoming health problems that, that actual medical science is focused on, which is really shitty. I also want to point out that you heard in E's clip and in Kennedy's clip, them both say siloed. And that's a Heritage foundation, longtime Heritage foundation term. It's idea that we, you know, there, there's different industries that are being pushed into different buckets and we're taking a broad economic approach to things, which, which is ironic because Heritage plays it both ways. They also want specificity when they want it. But I, I just want to point out that's where that language comes from. So they, they're using a lot of conservative business language to frame these health issues, which is all goes back to Reaganomics. We've also done episodes on that. And this whole thing, it's about much more than webinars as well. You know what I'm clipping from the Hub, gathered in Washington D.C. on July 20 to discuss these four pillars that Hoffman mentioned. Here's the wrap up from the Maha report article.
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B
The Chiropractic Medicare coverage modernization act, HR539 in the House and S1 106 in the Senate, has become one of the profession's top legislative priorities. The bill seeks to expand Medicare coverage for chiropractic services. And supporters argue that seniors should have access to the same level of chiropractic care already available through other federal programs, including the Department of Veterans affairs and the Department of Defense.
- [31:21]
A
Yeah, they want in on that cash. It's that simple. And not only through Medicare. The chiropractor hub page on the MAHA center site launched last week, or, I'm sorry, earlier this week. That's what made me want to cover it this week. And they're asking supporters to fund the quote, advis, advocacy, education and coalition work that advances the profession. I think we've all become too accustomed to tipping screens on apps for every service at this point, but even this is impossibly ludicrous. There's 500. I'm sorry, $50, 100 and $500 donation levels for Advocate, Practitioner Circle, or Founder Circle. But here's the thing that's per month. The annual ask to be part of this hub saves you 17%, however. So, Julian, I think that's where we're going to put our money. For $5,000 a year, you get a lapel pin, you get the newsletter, which I already get. You get quarterly zoom calls, and you get recognition on the web page. Wow, nice. But one thing really jumped out at that level, and only at that level, you get an invitation to the annual in person dinner in D.C. it's like the Trump crypto coin scandal at a smaller level. Pay us. And, yeah, we're going to give you access to lobbyists right here in D.C.
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B
yeah, I mean, I was just thinking. Steve Bannon called and he wants his build the wall wall strategy back. Like you've. You've plagiarized Steve Bannon's grift?
- [32:54]
C
No.
- [32:54]
A
And the irony, of course, is that Kennedy was going to stop all corporate lobbying once he got into power, and he's just running the same playbook. And the revisionist history of the article, you know, in question here, announcing the hub is. It's just truly astounding. But it's really not surprising.
- [33:11]
B
The roots of chiropractic care stretch back to 1895, when Daniel David Palmer developed a system of care based on the idea of idea that spinal health plays an important role in overall wellness. In its earliest years, chiropractic faced significant opposition and spent much of the 20th century fighting for legal recognition and professional legitimacy. You mean having it pointed out to them that there was no signs to support their claims?
- [33:37]
A
Yeah, nothing in the article about ghost religions or metaphysics, even if the subluxation theory remains the root of this profession, which it does. And again, again, there are mixers out there. I'm not hating on them, but it's clear that the MAHA Chiropractor hub is filled with straights who want jabs. And pills out of health care in exchange for back cracks. They might have dressed up the language to pretend the practice is evidence based or evidence informed, as you said earlier. But their system is as magical as it ever was, and with Kennedy's support, they're about to get a whole lot richer.