Conspirituality Podcast: "Brief: The Ghost Lab" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: June 14, 2025
Hosts: Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, Julian Walker
Guest: Matt Hongels Hetling, Journalist and Author of The Ghost Lab: How Bigfoot Hunters, Mediums and Alien Enthusiasts Are Wrecking Science

1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Conspirituality, hosts Derek Beres, Matthew Remski, and Julian Walker delve into the intricate world where conspiracy theories intersect with spiritual beliefs. The focus is on Matt Hongels Hetling's new book, The Ghost Lab: How Bigfoot Hunters, Mediums and Alien Enthusiasts Are Wrecking Science, which explores how diminishing trust in institutions drives individuals toward paranormal beliefs.

2. Matt Hongels Hetling: A Profile

Julian introduces Matt Hongels Hetling, highlighting his extensive background as an international investigative journalist with numerous accolades, including a Pulitzer Prize nomination and a Polk Award (02:07). Matt's credentials establish him as a credible and insightful voice on the subject of paranormal research and its societal implications.

Julian: "You're also Pulitzer Prize nominated. You're a Polk Award winner... the book really shows that it's beautifully written." (02:27)

3. Overview of The Ghost Lab

Matt's book serves as a multifaceted examination of paranormal research, media narratives, and the erosion of trust in scientific and governmental institutions. He embedded himself with the KIT Research Initiative (KRI), a New Hampshire-based paranormal group, for nearly two years to gain firsthand experience.

Matt: "I wanted to get under that roof with them and sort of rub elbows." (05:10)

4. Embedding with the KIT Research Initiative (KRI)

The KRI is portrayed as a vibrant and diverse group encompassing various facets of New Age beliefs, from ghost hunting to Bigfoot searching and alien abductions. Matt's immersive approach allowed him to observe the genuine personal experiences that bind members together, despite his initial skepticism.

Matt: "They weren't stupid and they weren't crazy and they weren't lying... they were out there having personal experiences that were very compelling." (05:52)

5. Paranormal Beliefs and Institutional Trust

A central theme discussed is the decline in public trust towards institutions like government, science, and healthcare, which correlates with the rise in paranormal beliefs. This distrust propels individuals towards alternative explanations for life's mysteries, often embracing conspiracy theories that posit mainstream institutions as suppressing the truth.

Matt: "If ghosts are real... then why hasn't science sort of backed this? Why aren't they studying this thing?" (09:08)

6. Historical Context of Paranormal Research

The conversation traces the evolution of paranormal research, highlighting key figures like Ed and Lorraine Warren who popularized ghost hunting in America during the 1950s. Their integration of Christian iconography into ghost lore set a precedent for future paranormal narratives intertwined with mainstream cultural elements.

Matt: "Ed became convinced that there were sort of demons in a lot of these houses... gave rise to the exorcist trope." (16:42)

7. The Fox Sisters and the Rise of Spiritualism

Matt recounts the story of the Fox sisters, pivotal figures in the spiritualist movement of the 19th century. Initially celebrated for their ability to communicate with spirits, their eventual confession to fabricating the phenomena did not quell the movement but instead fueled its persistence, illustrating how belief systems can endure beyond empirical evidence.

Matt: "They demonstrated publicly, these spirits... but eventually they revealed they were making the sounds themselves, yet the spiritualist movement continued to grow." (22:57)

8. Modern Conspirituality and Media Influence

The hosts and Matt discuss the contemporary landscape where media outlets like the History Channel and streaming services like Gaia TV amplify paranormal and conspiratorial content. This media saturation contributes to the normalization and reinforcement of paranormal beliefs, creating echo chambers that further erode trust in scientific and institutional consensus.

Matt: "There are a lot of people who are making a lot of money... some people dip into it and then never quite dip out of it." (35:34)

9. Compartmentalization of Beliefs

Matt explores how individuals often compartmentalize their paranormal beliefs, maintaining practical engagement with the world while holding divergent views on reality's metaphysical aspects. This separation allows conflicting belief systems to coexist without necessitating reconciliation, fostering a fragmented perception of truth.

Matt: "The idea that mutually exclusive truths can coexist is more important than finding a shared reality." (27:44)

10. Addressing the Rise of Paranormal Beliefs

Concluding the discussion, Matt proposes pragmatic strategies to bridge the gap between skeptics and believers. He suggests integrating ethical practitioners within paranormal communities who can serve as intermediaries, respecting individual experiences while guiding followers towards evidence-based practices when necessary.

Matt: "Create more spaces within institutions... crafting treatments that accommodate the holistic psyche of the person." (36:47)

11. Moving Forward: Rebuilding Trust

Matt emphasizes that debunking and dismissing paranormal beliefs are insufficient. Instead, fostering inclusive environments where individuals feel heard and respected can mitigate the attraction to conspiratorial and paranormal narratives. By addressing the underlying needs these beliefs fulfill, institutions can begin to restore trust and promote a shared reality grounded in evidence.

Matt: "Our institutions need to create more spaces within themselves that will allow for people who hold these beliefs to feel welcome." (38:11)

12. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with appreciation for Matt's insightful contributions and the importance of understanding the complex interplay between declining institutional trust and the rise of conspirituality. The hosts acknowledge the necessity of nuanced approaches in addressing these societal shifts, highlighting the ongoing relevance of Matt's research.

Julian: "Thank you so much for taking the time today, Julian." (39:20)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Julian: "You need to see hard evidence to move the needle on my own internal compass." (05:52)

• Matt: "Belief in the supernatural is not a bug in the human animal. That is sort of our human nature." (07:30)

• Matt: "The internet... allows like to find like, and to wrap yourself in a convincing digital bubble of a reality." (34:38)

• Matt: "The only way to stop a bad psychic is with a good psychic." (38:11)

Key Takeaways

• Intersection of Belief Systems: The blending of conspiracy theories with spiritual beliefs creates a potent mix that undermines trust in scientific and governmental institutions.

• Role of Media: Mainstream and niche media outlets play a significant role in normalizing and propagating paranormal and conspiratorial content, reinforcing echo chambers.

• Historical Persistence: Paranormal beliefs have demonstrated resilience, often persisting and evolving despite empirical refutations, driven by underlying human needs and societal changes.

• Proposed Solutions: Building bridges between skeptics and believers through inclusive institutional practices may offer pathways to mitigate the adverse effects of burgeoning conspiratorial and paranormal beliefs.

For those interested in exploring the dynamics of conspirituality, Matt Hongels Hetling's The Ghost Lab offers an in-depth analysis backed by immersive research and critical insights into the evolving landscape of paranormal beliefs.