Derek Barris (2:42)

I love her.

Julian Walker (2:43)

I just have to flag the line she had in there, which is, welcome to the comeback of Gold star science, beauty and backbone. Your comments, please.

Derek Barris (2:51)

Well, first we obviously have to send Mallory to the conference this year to cover it and to get her leadership skills up. So, Mallory, guess what? You're going to Dallas in what, June.

Julian Walker (3:02)

She sent you this clip, right?

Derek Barris (3:04)

She sent me one of them, yeah. I'll get to that. No, you found that clip. She had sent me another one. We're going to cover today. But Alex Clark is yet another disaffected liberal who was interested in media and made their way through the ranks of radio before she seized an opportunity to go full conservative with Turning Points USA in 2019. In fact, she studied radio, TV and journalism in high school and then, I believe, in college. And her aspiration was to work at Teen Vogue, which, if you're not familiar, was very political, very left leaning for a long time, until I think last year, they completely gutted the politics department. Like so much media, they did a lot of excellent work. I was able to write an article about male eating disorders for them about two years ago now, and I really enjoyed reading them. Alex Clark launched Poplitics in 2019 to cover entertainment and politics through a conservative frame. She coined the term cute servative to create a space for other young right leaning women. All right. And as her fame grew, she started veering into health. But as Mallory discovered last year, she admits that she does not fact check guests because that would, you know, it would just take too long. So, Brian Artis, you want to come up here and say that nicotine cures autism? I'm not going to fact check that. You've done your homework. You've done your research. I'm going to trust you on this. And in fact, I'm going to put my box of nicotine patches right next to me and then sell them on my downline. Because you say that's a good thing. That is, of course, via her most recent podcast, which is called Cultural Apothecary. And it has become a giant maha propaganda vector. And she feels comfortable saying things like, as you flag gold standard science, even as she spreads misinformation about birth control and vaccines. All right, everyone, welcome to Conspirituality, where we investigate the intersections of conspiracy theory and spiritual influence to uncover cults, pseudoscience and authoritarian extremism. And of course, anything and all things Turning Point usa. I'm Derek Barris.

Julian Walker (5:16)

I'm Julian Walker.

Derek Barris (5:17)

You can find us on Instagram and threads at Conspirituality Pod, as well as individually over on Blue Sky. And if you are able to support our work as independent media analysts and journalists, you can do so@patreon.com conspirituality where you will get access to all of our episodes ad free, plus our Monday bonus episodes for the low, low price of $5 a month, as well as accessing our Monday bonus episodes via Apple subscriptions, if that is easier for you.

Julian Walker (5:53)

All right, so let's get into it. This year's Turning Points U.S. women's Leadership Summit is slated for the first weekend of June. I went to the website to find out more and saw that registration for the whole three days is priced in tiers. But they really do want to bring in a young crowd. It's just 50 bucks for 13 to 26 year olds and then it doubles to 100 for what they call young adults, which is 27 to 35. It doubles again to 200 when you hit 37 years old. I guess you're making a ton of money or you've got a sugar daddy, right? VIP pricing gets you more access, so to the VIP lounge and the meet and greets and that ranges between 300 and $450 depending on your age.

Derek Barris (6:37)

When does the senior discount start to slip in? Because I think we've, we've, we've crossed the. I'm getting my AARP cards now that I'm 50, so I should be getting a discount here.

Julian Walker (6:47)

Yeah, you know they have, they have a button on the website for seniors, but it goes directly to the CPAC registration site. They've already got that covered. So this all makes sense because Turning Points US got its start on college campuses. It's become this major political force pushing younger generations toward conservative religious coded politics instead of towards more progressive politics, which has been the norm for a long time. They've held these young women's leadership summits since 2015. And as far as I could tell using my Internet skills, it looks like this is the first year that they've opened it up beyond the word young. They just dropped the word young. And it's a Women's Leadership Summit.

Derek Barris (7:28)

Well, as a fellow AARP card can't candidate, at the very least, you know, we got to question your Internet skills.

Julian Walker (7:35)

Yeah.

Derek Barris (7:36)

I looked into the 2025 edition and here is how Southern Poverty Law center described it. Quote the theme welcome Home promoted a return to, quote, traditional America. The venue was decorated with pastels, gingham prints, bows and embroidery and reflected A hyper feminine aesthetic that seemed to be inspired by the antebellum American self. The event was sponsored by such organizations as the National Rifle Association. I'm sure they're trying to get more women to buy guns. Patriot Mobile and Rumble, a video sharing platform known for hosting extremist content. In the vendor hall, attendees could purchase clean vitamins, vitamins for conservative women, or apply for a fellowship with the Heritage Foundation.

Julian Walker (8:28)

Oh my God.

Derek Barris (8:28)

One Barbie Pink TP USA booth had a mean girl style burn book where attendees could write insults next to unflattering photos of progressive leaders. Wait, wait.

Julian Walker (8:40)

This is. This is cute Servative. This is conservative, right? That's what that is.

Derek Barris (8:44)

And it's not political. Right. This is. This is really for everyone. As we'll get into more clips, I'll keep going with SPLC here. The page for former first lady Michelle Obama accused her of secretly being a man with higher testosterone levels than former president Barack Obama. A contemporary example of the racist trope portraying black women as masculine and therefore justified identifiable targets of violence. On the page dedicated to U.S. rep. Nancy Pelosi, the first woman elected House speaker. One note read die. While another called her an evil witch. Another ominously warned your times sick coming soon. I love the sick. I love. I love how people are grammatically correct. Just to point out that when people are making threats like this, they often get the grammar wrong.

Julian Walker (9:35)

Yeah, and they're taking notes from the QAnon Shaman's visit to the. To the Capitol. That whole thing that you just read reminds me of. Wait, wait, don't tell me. This comedic kind of faux game show that runs on NPR where they have a segment where they'll read three different accounts of something bizarre sounding that happened in the world and you have to guess which one is actually real because they all sound so ridiculous. This could easily be a parody. It's amazing. It's amazing. You can have your Patriot mobile phone where you're looking on Rumble at like you know how to. How to buy a new assault rifle or something. So speakers include Erica Kirk in this upcoming summit. She's on like her grieving widow national tour in sequins with her hair always

Derek Barris (10:20)

perfectly done, which is gonna last for a long time, it seems. She's gonna milk this for as long as possible.

Julian Walker (10:26)

Yeah. And who knows where she'll end up in potential administration in the future. And then of course, Alex Clark, who we've talked about, and anti trans activist and famous fifth place swimmer Raleigh Gaines and rising star conservative Christian podcaster Ali Beth Stuckey. Now, there are others, but I don't really recognize any of them. And their specialties, Derek, are things like Christian parenting or being an anti woke activist or a patriotic educator. But there was one bio in there that really jumped out at me. The woman's name is Hilda Labrada Gore, and she goes by Holistic Hilda, apparently online. And the quote here is that she empowers women to show up as the healthiest version of themselves by following ancient health practices. It says that she's traveled around the world exploring Mongolia, Ethiopia, Ecuador, Kenya, Australia and Albania seeking to learn the healthy habits of IND indigenous people. She's got a course called the Mother Code and is the lead ambassador for, of course, an animal based supplements line for women. She hosts a podcast based through the Weston Price Foundation. So this is like straight down the line of Maha, but with this little extra twist of indigenous wisdom, which I. I thought is a. It's a new wrinkle for a group that is notoriously kind of white supremacist, even if they're not open about it.

Derek Barris (11:46)

Right. Well, they will. They will give a head nod to ancient practices even as their own. I mean, the contradictions within Maha, we've covered many of them. That is also one of them. So if Kennedy were to find. Oh, let, you know, let's actually, you know, talk about Weston Price for a moment because he. He is fam. Identifying dental records of a supposedly indigenous, you know, culture to make the argument that I, I believe that one was sugar is horrible, which, of course, sugar is bad in excess. But that became his sort of platform by which he started espousing many forms of pseudoscience. So you can have Kennedy saying, sugar is terrible. You know, we have this tribal indigenous community saying this, and you could still have the sort of soft eugenics that Maha espouses. They go together because they won't, you know, recognize the contradict. And, And Weston Price, I mean, the fact that they still exist, they really do represent the old school of misinformation. They've been pushing for saturated fats and high cholesterol for a long time. They've been against fluoride, you know, dating back to Birch Society. But the foundation itself was founded in 1999. They also believe raw milk cures diabetes. They believe that magnets can treat stroke victims. They think that sunlight is the best thing for melanoma, which is of the most extreme form of skin cancer.

Julian Walker (13:10)

Oh, my God.

Derek Barris (13:10)

And they also state that root canals block the flow of qi through dental meridians.

Julian Walker (13:17)

Oh, boy.

Derek Barris (13:18)

And obviously they love vaccines. They're all four vaccines. Without saying, the term crank magnetism was actually coined in 2007 to describe their work.

Julian Walker (13:28)

We should be fair, though, Derek, because nobody knows how magnets work. Like, it's. It's one of the great unsolved mysteries of the universe.

Derek Barris (13:36)

And of course, you know, just because science hasn't discovered the dental meridians yet, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

Julian Walker (13:43)

Yes. I know people who swear by all of these kinds of treatments. Yeah. I think that Western price, like dental records shtick, is often pulled out to back up ideas of, like, a paleo diet that comes from the time before agriculture. So it's like grains and then what grains, you know, break down to in terms of sugar. That's the reason why we have terrible teeth compared to these ancient people.

Derek Barris (14:04)

I'm always fascinated by how they latch onto things like this. And then we actually do. There is some amazing anthropological work of. Of photographs of indigenous people who never wear shoes. And their feet look like another animal because they're dexterous, they're flexible, they're strong because they're gripping the earth all the time. And as sort of a longtime minimalist footwear, you know, advocates who's dealing with plantar fasciitis right now, but for different reasons, because I was. And working them out enough. But still, like, tight toe boxes are terrible. That is something that I've been teaching and espousing for decades of my life. But the Price foundation and people like that will always go towards these really weird examples of. Of their own. Of their own hobby horses when it comes to indigenous wisdom. Whereas we would be much. I'm not saying don't wear shoes. Like, that's not my argument at all. But, like, when we have actual photographic evidence and data over how much better a health intervention could be. It's like crickets. They don't even notice those sorts of things.

Julian Walker (15:15)

Yeah, yeah. They're looking for the most outlandish, like, weird theory that will. That will bolster up whatever product they're selling or whatever kind of elaborate ideology they want to invest in, as opposed to something that practical and basic. Yeah, yeah.

Derek Barris (15:29)

They're not gonna. They're not. They're not gonna invest in footwear and try to sell them, but if they did, then they would actually use that which we do have. Have harder data to support.

Julian Walker (15:38)

Yeah. So the tone of this particular bio, which I pulled out from the rest, it struck me as resonant with the branding of the conference because I doubled back to the homepage and it says, that the conference is curated for her capital her with periods after each of those letters. And they're each supposed to stand for something so holistic, empowered and redeemed. And each of those words has like this little blurb underneath it on the homepage under holistic it says. And I really felt like I could be looking at a, at any kind of new age or yoga teacher or coaching website from, you know, 10 years ago. For the woman leaning into ancestral wisdom, Whole Foods movement that builds resilience and habits that support hormonal, mental and spiritual health. She understands that modern convenience comes at a cost. And she chooses discernment, personal responsibility and informed self care instead.

Derek Barris (16:36)

I have to say, whoever the designed their collateral needs to be fired. Also, you know the, the her you, you recognized it sort of actually mimics the artist her in terms of all capitals. Yeah, sometimes she designed but. But in a much gaudier way. The H is dark green, the E is pink and the R is purple. And I, I'm just allergic to bad design. And this is truly awful. Which actually ref. Content of the conference. So maybe it is fitting.

Julian Walker (17:04)

All right. Everything is, is coherent here. All right, Derek, you're in luck because I've got more. Alex Clark for you from the promo materials.

Derek Barris (17:11)

Oh, goody.

Alex Clark (17:12)

And women were kicked out of the home, pushed into the workforce. That was when Big food saw the perfect opening. They said, oh yeah, don't worry about cooking. Here's a TV dinner, here's a lunchable, here's a microwave tray of chemicals.

Derek Barris (17:27)

Goals.

Alex Clark (17:28)

And look where that got us. Skyrocketing chronic disease, infertile young women, kids who are totally morbidly obese, and families who don't eat together, let alone thrive together.

Derek Barris (17:40)

I, I love this so much. So this was the clip Mallory originally sent me, which I said I shared with you and then kind of kicked off this, this episode. Yeah, it's just another example the single cause fallacy. And it's something that conservatives have latched onto for a long time. So of course the Post World War II era was one of successful for America in terms of industry and in terms of building a society. And they point to that as just indicative of. This is what we need to get back to. Of course it's pre civil rights, it's pre feminism, so it tracks that Clark would make that argument. But they latch on to the modern movement. At least where, where the conservatives have intersected with the health advocates via Maha, they'll make these claims that, you know, it's actually your refrigerator that has created all of our health problem, because of course that was, you know, it was. And there is some truth to the fact that microwave, you know, and frozen dinners started to make their way and it was this whole again anti feminist argument. But during the earliest 20th century, contaminated food, milk and water caused a ton of foodborne infections like typhoid fever, tuberculosis, botilism and scarlet fever. Refrigeration was, was a very successful public health response that controlled these diseases. So of course they hate it. Yeah. It is actually a fundamentally food safe technology because it reduces illnesses and death. But it's not one of the many definitely natural supplements that Alex sells on our podcast. So it has to be evil. You know, the actual drivers of obesity are things like the social determinants of health. Ultra processed foods, which is one of them in excess, reduce physical activity, genetics. It's not cold storage and it's not microwaves. Infertility and chronic diseases have multiple causes. But since Maha specializes in reductionism, they have to make these sorts of arguments. So none of this is actually surprising.

Julian Walker (19:46)

Yeah. And it's classic like lost golden age vibes because they're never referencing like, like what specifically refrigeration and faster cooking methods actually do that are so bad. They're just like, it must be bad because when we were really living the way we were supposed to, we just kept the food in the pantry and we, we made everything from scratch and, and the woman was in the kitchen cooking and everything, which, everything just worked the way that it's supposed to. And obviously that's going to be more nourishing. Right.

Derek Barris (20:15)

And it is one of those areas where when I was more in the wellness propaganda space, I didn't have a microwave for a very long time because I, oh, this must be terrible.

Julian Walker (20:26)

Yeah.

Derek Barris (20:26)

And then at some point I actually read up on it and no reheating food or heating food. Microwave is not bad for you by any measure.

Julian Walker (20:33)

Yeah.

Derek Barris (20:34)

But in the wellness world, because you're not actually, you know, going out in the yard and pulling them and then getting your big pot, copper pot, and the fire and the logs in the backyard, you know, and, and, and milking your radishes or whatever the you're doing this week. It must not be healthy. And I was, I was there and now I use my microwave all the time.

Julian Walker (20:54)

Yeah, no, I was, I have humble about this. I was there too. I was there too. I was very against nuking food. I was very against ever setting foot in a, in a, in a drugstore. You know, there were times I needed to and I was like, I hope no one from my yoga class sees me here, because it would be a terrible admission of weakness and lack of spiritual kind of enlightenment that I'm actually, like, in here buying an antihistamine or something.

Derek Barris (21:20)

But even there, you just said it, but, like nonchalantly. But nuking food, like, just. There's all this war imagery that always comes up in these. In these non political health spaces that just try to fear monger you into not using these sorts of technologies.

Julian Walker (21:36)

Yeah. And it's totally vibes based. It's relying on a kind of set of intuitive emotional associations and identifications. All right. It's making me think also of Ballerina Farm, which we're gonna. We're gonna cover next week. Like your whole. Your whole shtick there about making the wood fire and milking the radishes.

Derek Barris (21:54)

Yep. Oh, yeah, this is gonna be. We're, We're. We're deep in this. So next Thursday's episode, get for the ballerinas. We're coming after you.

Julian Walker (22:03)

You can't pirouette away. All right, last clip here, and then we'll be out.

Alex Clark (22:08)

So. Yeah, more women, men and kids in the kitchen cooking real food. How is this political in the least? Feminism told women to chase their corporate dreams for their validation while their kids were eating seed oils and their marriages were collapsing. Well, we're done pretending that a cubicle is more empowering than a countertop. When we reclaim our food, we reclaim our health, and we reclaim power. And that is what terrifies the left. They've got pronouns, but we've got purpose.

Julian Walker (22:49)

I wonder who's ghostwriting her speeches. Because that, I mean, I. I hate it, but it's like there's a bunch of good slogans in there.

Derek Barris (22:56)

There's a reason she presents well for her crowd, for sure. Especially in prepared speeches. When you actually watch, when she goes off script in ad lib, it gets much messier. So, yeah, I. I mean, I don't know if she's writing or not. You know, I think the coining of the term conservative, I mean, for what it is, she is good at branding. I mean, she studied media, and you can actually tell that. And she presents again for her crowd very well. But when you actually start to, like, read transcripts and break down what she's saying, it just, like most of these people goes off the rails.

Julian Walker (23:29)

Of course.

Derek Barris (23:29)

Course.

Julian Walker (23:29)

Yeah, yeah. It's good rhetoric. It's good propaganda. Yeah. And. And it's almost like she got an education and pursued a career because feminism helped her get out of the kitchen. But we don't have to talk about that right now, though. I love the transition. She says, cooking real food. And everyone's like, yeah. She's like, how is this political in the least? And then she pauses for, like, two seconds and says, feminism told women to chase their corporate dreams for their validation while their kids were eating seed oils and their marriages are collapsing.

Derek Barris (23:58)

Yeah, this is what I was hinting at before when I was talking about polit and health. It was, you know, preempting this clip. And.

Julian Walker (24:03)

And.

Derek Barris (24:04)

And it's an argument that, you know, I will. Cole makes this argument. Carnivore M. De Paul Saldino, you know, made an argument which then seeped into Kennedy's more recent speeches. It's this idea that it's not political. And. And the fact that she can, like, hold both of these things in her. In her mind at once, saying it's not political. And then they have a mean girls burn book, you know, and it's. She is deeply integrated in TP usa. It's not like they're inviting her in as an occasion regional speaker. She's been with them since 2019. She was very close with Charlie Kirk, and I'm sure she has a say in the programming. So to say it's not political and then to go and do that is just. Is Mind baffling, but it's also because it gives. It gives the crowd cover. It's saying, oh, it's their Kumbaya liberal moment. Right. It's like, we're really doing this for everyone, and you don't see the value of what we're doing. So we're gonna rise above. We're gonna go high when you go low. And then they immediately go low. And last thought. I also just have to say, they've got pronouns, but we've got purpose. I mean, yeah, it's kind of like the language flip we were talking about, you know, on this past Thursday's episode. But I hate to tell you guys, and. And women, you have pronouns, too. Like, that's just. It's part of language. It's part of the English language construction. So you're gonna have to just deal with that.

Julian Walker (25:25)

Yeah, and it's. What you're saying is also just perfect, like the. The attention. Attempt to say, well, this is. It's not political. This is common sense. This is. This is just good values. This is just us wanting to be redeemed in the blood of the savior and, you know, eat healthy food and have women remember their correct place. In society, but it's not political.

Derek Barris (25:47)

Yeah, it's amazing.

Julian Walker (25:49)

All right, so there's something else here that I was sort of hinting at it a moment ago that runs through everything that I've seen about these events as well as this whole maga, Maha especially Christian conservative ecosystem. And it's that in addition to the feud pure food purity or, or holistic health and, and life coaching vibes that have kind of crossed over from liberal culture into maga, there's also this really glaring contradiction that I always noticed. Like you have these really strong, assertive, real boss babe women who are clearly making money as entrepreneurs or influencers. They're media figures. They present themselves in very glamorous ways in terms of their outfits and their hair and their makeup. They' looking demure, you know, they're, they're actually looking very, very like done up and, and kind of sexy. Their hair, their makeup, all of that. And then somehow they try to combine it with messaging that says feminine. Excuse me. Feminism robbed women of their femininity and their God given role is essentially being submissive to men. It fooled them into thinking that either a masculine style career was more important than being a wife, wife and a mother, or it, it sold them on this liberal lie that you can have it all. And it just comes across as hypocritical to me. Like they've benefited from all the advances feminism made certainly into the 80s and the 90s, and they're pursuing therefore these high profile careers, but at the same time they're doing so while telling other women, and especially younger women who look up to them, that they should embrace pre feminist traditional religious gender roles.

Derek Barris (27:26)

It fits in with the Maha ethos too, because all of people involved have benefited unknowingly from public health interventions, including vaccines, because somewhere along the way some of their family members benefited from vaccines and they probably personally have as well, along with everything else. So it's, it's just this constant construction of I want to return to this amazing place before these technologies existed, but I'm going to take advantage and exploit monetarily these technologies because I can do both of them. And I have a whole cohort of people who won't see that contradiction, who actually lavish in it and I can pull one over on them.

Julian Walker (28:05)

Yeah, it's a special kind of grift, I think, to, to, to present yourself in this way that is if you just scratch the surface a little bit, obviously contradicting everything about the message that has gotten you into that position. It's like, wait, don't pursue a career, but here I am pursuing a career in which I tell you not to pursue a career. Keep conform to like and also like in in that opening intro, right? It was like a don't conform. Like it's this welcome to the resistance. We like, we're we're the ones who are saying that you're really kind of like an outside of the box revolutionary. But then we're going to sell you on all of these very old school, traditional kind of values. Atblinds.com it's not just about window treatments. It's about you.

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