Brief: Women 3, Manosphere 0

Summary

---

Conspirituality Podcast Summary

Episode: Brief: Women 3, Manosphere 0

Host: Julian Walker
Date: May 2, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this brief episode, Julian Walker spotlights a series of viral debates where three women—Enemy Charlie, Kyla Turner (“Not So Erudite”), and Driana Sixto—enter the misogynistic online "manosphere" and decisively out-argue one of its most vocal influencers, Andrew Wilson. Walker celebrates their intelligence, resilience, and rhetorical skill in environments stacked against them, framing these moments as both a guilty pleasure and a small but meaningful strike against Internet misogyny. The episode also touches on deeper values about democracy, reason, and debate, culminating with a perspective from YouTuber Contrapoints on the ongoing importance of Enlightenment values.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Manosphere and Its Tactics (04:30–11:00)

• Definition & Culture: The "manosphere" is described as a hostile online environment where self-styled alpha male influencers promote misogyny and conspicuous wealth to disaffected young men, often through debate shows and panels that encourage bullying and humiliation of women guests.
• Content Economy: These shows are engineered for viral “clip farming” and views, normalizing hateful, anti-feminist, and performatively Christian rhetoric.
• Influencer Taxonomy:
  • Examples of manosphere figures include Andrew Tate and Braden Peters ("Clavicular"), who gain followings through toxic masculinity, often mixed with pseudo-intellectual debate.
  • Andrew Wilson, central in this episode, is profiled: a Christian nationalist debate “king” and host of "The Crucible" who leverages philosophical grandstanding.

2. Enemy Charlie vs. Andrew Wilson: Facing Down Misogyny (11:10–12:30)

• Segment Highlight: On a live-streamed "Whatever Podcast" debate, Twitch streamer Enemy Charlie (non-binary, literature grad) refuses to be cowed by Andrew Wilson’s escalating personal and sexual insults.
• Memorable Quote:
  • “No, it’s because you’re embarrassed and you know that the traditional values that you try to sell people are bullshit, because you are not a traditional man.” — Enemy Charlie (12:19)
• Julian's Commentary:
  • Julian applauds Charlie’s composure:
    “It takes a special kind of resolve... to face that kind of onslaught live on the mic and just deliver the truth in response that the person is really trying to avoid facing.” (12:28)
• Significance: The moment goes viral, showcasing that these “alpha” tactics can break down when met with cool-headed truth-telling.

3. Kyla Turner ("Not So Erudite") and Epistemic Dominance (13:47–19:09)

• Philosophical Showdown: Kyla, a certified counselor and Christian progressive, challenges Andrew Wilson on philosophy and the logical foundations of Christian nationalism.
• Main Themes:
  • The Founders and Church-State Separation: Kyla exposes Andrew’s superficial understanding of American constitutional history.
  • Foundations of Morality: The exchange deep-dives into Agrippa’s Trilemma (the epistemological problem of infinite regress, circular reasoning, or axiomatic assertion).
• Notable Exchange:
  • “I can’t tell if you genuinely don’t understand Agrippa’s trilemma, maybe, or if you’re being bad faith. Those are the only—”
    — Kyla Turner (18:05)
• Julian’s Analysis:
  • Kyla “refuses every attempt he makes to dominate her and she turns the tables... he’s out of his depth.” (19:09)
• Impact: Highlights how intellectual rigor and refusal to be bullied can dismantle self-styled authorities.

4. Driana Sixto: Conservative Value, Democratic Logic (21:21–22:38)

• Setting: When Andrew Wilson’s wife, Rachel, enters the debate to defend reactionary Christian stances, Sixto—a conservative herself—unexpectedly defends democratic values against anti-suffrage views.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “You’re making the argument that because people disagree with my political beliefs that I should take away their right to vote... that’s a racist, obviously, position to have.” — Driana Sixto (21:32–22:26, paraphrased)
• Mask Off Moment:
  • Rachel Wilson admits, openly, “I’m not a democracy enjoyer.” (22:26)
• Julian’s Take:
  • Julian calls Sixto’s intervention “10 out of 10,” praising her for upholding fundamental democratic norms even from a conservative perspective (22:38).

5. The Value of Enlightenment Principles and Democracy (24:32–27:26)

• Segment Featuring Contrapoints (Natalie Wynn):
  • On the “Doom Scroll” podcast with Joshua Citarella, Contrapoints articulates why democracy and Enlightenment values—such as human rights, free speech, and even freedom of religion—remain vital for any just society, despite current social and political turbulence.
• Key Reflections:
  • “I like freedom of speech. I even like freedom of religion, despite its many problems. ... There’s a reason why most societies do not have freedom of religion. But I still like it.”
    — Contrapoints (27:14)
  • “Even a violent revolution ends with the establishment of a new state. ... We want that state to maintain some of the Enlightenment project. I should hope.”
    — Contrapoints (26:19)
• Turn to Next Episode:
  • Julian hints at further exploration of this interview in a future bonus breakdown.

---

Time-Stamped Notable Quotes & Moments

• [11:19] Andrew Wilson: “I just think, honestly, you’re too fucking stupid to understand them.” (Directed at Enemy Charlie)
• [12:19] Enemy Charlie: “No, it’s because you’re embarrassed and you know that the traditional values that you try to sell people are bullshit because you are not a traditional man.”
• [17:15] Kyla Turner: “That doesn’t make it right.”
• [18:05] Kyla Turner: “No, I can’t tell if you genuinely don’t understand Agrippa’s trilemma, maybe, or if you’re being bad faith. Those are the only—”
• [22:26] Rachel Wilson: “Well, I don’t give a crap about democracy. ... I’m not a democracy enjoyer.”
• [27:14] Contrapoints: “I like freedom of speech. I even like freedom of religion, despite its many problems. ... But I still like it.”

---

Episode Tone & Style

• Tone: Wry, direct, incisive, and somewhat celebratory—Julian relishes the moments when toxic internet figures are brought low, but grounds the schadenfreude in a wider critique of anti-democratic, misogynistic, and anti-intellectual trends online.
• Language: Conversational, sometimes irreverent, but always sharp and analytical. The episode is accessible to listeners familiar or unfamiliar with the "manosphere."

---

Conclusion

Julian Walker uses this episode to highlight how even in the most hostile digital arenas, clear thinking, composure, and refusal to submit to bullying—shown by Enemy Charlie, Kyla Turner, and Driana Sixto—can puncture the logic and bravado of manosphere influencers. These moments of viral resistance, though small, hint at the potential for reasoned discourse to challenge misogyny and extremism. The episode closes on the reminder, via Contrapoints, of the enduring necessity of Enlightenment values—reason, human rights, and debate—in combating authoritarianism and keeping society open and just.

---

Transcript

[Child]

Mom, can you tell me a story?

[Mom]

Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car.

[Child]

Was she brave?

[Mom]

She was tired mostly. But she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required.

[Child]

Did you have to fight a dragon?

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

Nope.

[Mom]

She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually.

[Child]

Was it scary?

[Mom]

Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be.

[Child]

Did the car have a sunroof?

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

It did, actually.

[Child]

Okay, good story.

[Mom]

Car buying you'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.

[Movie Trailer Voice]

Focus features in Blumhouse, Prison and Obsession.

[Rachel Wilson]

When I have a crush on a guy no one knows.

[Movie Trailer Voice]

Be careful.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

I wish Nikki love me more than anyone in the entire world.

[Movie Trailer Voice]

Who you wish for obsession is 96% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

I love you so so so so much.

[Movie Trailer Voice]

It's blood soaked nightmare fuel brook on

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

this blood you put on her.

[Movie Trailer Voice]

You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17. Animated without parent. Only in theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby.

[Andrew Wilson]

I just think too stupid to understand them.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

Your wife has three baby daddies and has been married twice before and you under.

[Andrew Wilson]

And you lick.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

You lick sniz under your religion.

[Andrew Wilson]

Uhhuh. You lick sniz.

[Rachel Wilson]

What is that?

[Andrew Wilson]

You're a. Don't talk about my wife, you stupid. Shut your mouth. It's because I'm better than you, Charlie.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

No, it's because you're embarrassed and you know that the traditional values that you try to sell people on are because you are not a traditional man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Chuck.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

That's a twitch streamer. Who goes by Enemy Charlie? Absolutely owning manosphere debate king Andrew Wilson on the absolutely awful whatever podcast she gets him so triggered that all he can do is reactively resort to slurs about her sexuality and as you may have caught right at the end, call her Chuck. Neither of which, as it turns out, Enemy Charlie, who identifies as non binary minds at all. To truly convey the culture war reasons why this is so delicious, I'll need to give you a little background. And then we'll come back to today's heroines. They're called Enemy Charlie. Kyla Turner, who goes by not so Erudite and Driana Sixto. Now, not to worry if you don't recognize any of those idiosyncratic online names. It's all going to make sense as we continue in a world of men where alpha debate bros browbeat insecure betas and deride token female guests who are sex workers while perhaps not realizing they're actually Helping promote their OnlyFans accounts, three steely eyed women have snuck in, decoded the matrix and fought their way up to face the ultimate boss, a chain smoking, greasy haired, foul mouthed Christian nationalist named Andrew Wilson. Today I want to feature and celebrate the insurgent grit and intelligence of these particular three women who've gone into a hostile environment and not only held their own, but handed this smug prick and his minions their asses in ways both undeniable and elegant. In an arena set up to clip farm and drive cliques by normalizing hateful, anti feminist, homophobic, performatively Christian rhetoric, it may not be possible to drive a stake completely through the heart of Misogyny's zombie Internet dragon, but owning or destroying the main characters at their game in front of their own fans sure does taste sweet. And who knows, perhaps it makes some of the younger and more impressionable viewers think twice about the slop they're being fed. I'm Julian Walker and you're listening to a Conspirituality podcast brief titled Women 3 Manosphere 0 and this one is all guilty pleasure, so please enjoy. Here at Conspirituality, we investigate the intersections of conspiracy theories and spiritual influence to uncover cults, pseudoscience and authoritarian extremism. You can mostly find us on Instagram nspiritualitypod if you want to find us on social media, and that's a handle we also use on threads as well. And we're all individually on bluesky. We always say but I don't really do anything there. But that aside, more importantly, you can access all of our episodes ad free, plus our Monday bonus episodes on Patreon, or just get our bonus episodes via Apple subscriptions. As independent media creators, we really do appreciate your support. The Manosphere, as you probably know, is a really nasty place. We recently covered Louis Theroux's somewhat odd Netflix documentary that followed a few toxic men who've been getting rich preaching the gospel of misogyny and conspicuous wealth to young lonely men with poor social skills. Because that is the audience. Be like me, they seem to say on endless livestreams, showing off their physiques, their flashy sports cars and watches from soulless international Airbnbs, while behind the scenes their personal lives are EMP and transactional and some are even trying to avoid criminal prosecution for their dodgy scams and mistreatment of women. We also have looked at the flavor of the month looks maxer. Remember that 20 year old Braden Peters who goes by Clavicular online and is famous for doing things like bashing his own face on camera to try to get the bones to look more chiseled, or admitting to using methamphetamine to stay lean. And then a few weeks later, after we covered him, he was hospitalized for a drug overdose after livestreaming from a nightclub. His main complaint about that was he found that the oxygen mask at the hospital left marks on his face after they'd saved his life and sent him home. Now, in all this anthropological classification system, the taxonomy the guys in the Louis Theroux Manosphere documentary are basically trying to follow in the footsteps of alleged sex trafficker Andrew Tate, who got rich telling teenage boys they too could drive bugattis, smoke cigars and wear ugly stretchy material suits that are two sizes too small for some reason by being insufferably domineering and tricking women into becoming sex workers by pretending to fall in love with them and then isolating them from their loved ones to gain complete control over their bodies and minds. So he's the ultimate boss of being a pimp in the age of online courses and social media marketing. But there's another layer of the manosphere, which we are opening a window on today. Here, podcasters and YouTubers host debate panels that drive home talking points about dating based on bad evolutionary psychology to their audiences. Again and again the setup is predictable. It's usually three or four of these smug self appointed alphas who then host a rotating cast of college aged attractive girls who are either polyamorous or sex positive feminists or onlyfans, models or just straight up porn stars. The point of these lengthy live streamed incredibly popular discussions is for the men to demonstrate how money hungry, unintelligent, morally confused and just plain slutty all of these women are so as to communicate to their audience that being a manipulative, cold hearted misogynist bastard is justified. Because look at these women. A prominent topic of debate is the concept of body count, meaning how many sexual partners a woman has had. Because it's always about how many sexual partners the woman has had because that body count being higher reduces their dating value, supposedly, even as they cynically try to climb the ranks of so called high value men who make a lot of money and wield invulnerable power. And sometimes the men advocate for a one sided form of monogamy in which they get to be the sluts while their submissive wives or girlfriends clean the house and wait on them hand and foot. But sometimes, and sometimes even on the same podcast as with this guy Andrew Wilson, the woman hatred is served up with a big helping of Christian righteousness because he not only presents himself as a champion of rational philosophical argument who literally sells courses online about how to win debates, he also slices and dices scripture to show how really God is on his side. Now, if you've not come across Andrew Wilson, I am happy for you because it is my job to pay attention to toxic people, and so therefore I am more familiar with him than I would like to be. He's around 40 years old. He has 339,000 YouTube followers. His top videos there are over half a million or the top. He has 139,000 followers on Twitter, and his YouTube channel is called the Crucible. He appeared on Joe Rogan, of course, at the end of January this year, and he said there that he was a former gunsmith and a former robotics engineer. I can't really find any background on him other than this interview. He says he was laid off from his robotics job during COVID and then gained a following by debating people on his YouTube channel, the Crucible. He mostly, in the early days, debated young liberal streamers who had much bigger audiences than he did at that time, but then very quickly found his way into being a regular on the aforementioned Whatever podcast, which is where all of our clips for today are coming from. First, here's a more complete version of that Enemy Charlie clip. Again, she's a twitch streamer with 37,000 followers. She has an Instagram account with 143,000 followers. But more importantly, Enemy Charlie has a master's degree in literature and online. She mostly talks about gaming and fantasy fiction. And just a quick content warning here, now that we're into the episode I have left in, all of Andrew Wilson's curse words, which you may have heard were kind of blanked out in the earlier clip. I've left them in this time as he's melting down. So, you know, shield to children's ears, or skip ahead, if you're offended by that kind of language.

[Andrew Wilson]

Let me. I'm gonna. I'll try to rephrase this. I'm gonna reframe, and I'm just gonna be totally honest with you. I will never be able to convince you of my worldview.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

You won't.

[Andrew Wilson]

I know. But the reason is not because I'm not a great orator or I don't make good points or I haven't said things which should be compelling to a person. But, Charlie, I just think, honestly, you're too fucking stupid to understand them.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

So, Andrew, can I tell you, on My worldview?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yes.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

Your wife has three baby daddies and has been married twice before.

[Andrew Wilson]

And you under. And you look. You look sniz.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

Under your religion.

[Andrew Wilson]

You lick sniz.

[Rachel Wilson]

What is that?

[Andrew Wilson]

You're a dyke. Don't talk about my wife, you stupid. Shut your mouth. Shut your stupid mouth.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

Your wife with the three baby.

[Andrew Wilson]

What did I just say? Sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Dyke. Is she morally inconsequential in comparison to your ditch licking?

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

Do the men that you try to.

[Andrew Wilson]

Do the women that you try to Your hatred. Do you. The women that you try to.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

That they shouldn't.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, Charlie, did I bring women? Do they know, Charlie, did I bring your family Older. Did I bring any of your family into anything? Did I say anything about. About your family being stupid? Charlie. It's because I'm better than you, Charlie.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

No, it's because you're embarrassed and you know that the traditional values that you try to sell people are bullshit because you are not a traditional man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Chuck, let's go through it.

[Enemy Charlie (Twitch Streamer)]

You are not a tradition.

[Andrew Wilson]

Let's go through it, Chuck.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

I just love it. No, it's because you're embarrassed and you know that the traditional values you try to sell people on are bullshit because you are not a traditional man. It's so simple, it's even obvious. But it takes a special kind of resolve to face that kind of onslaught live on the mic and just deliver the truth in response that the person is really trying to avoid facing. Excellent work, Charlie. He had nothing for you. And that's why that clip is really viral. So let's shift now to an area where Andrew Wilson styles himself as a real expert. Here he's debating Kyla Turner, who goes by not so Erudite. She has about 18,000 followers on Twitch and 109,000 on Instagram. She's a certified substance abuse counselor who creates content about psychology and mental health and politics. She used to co host a podcast with massive political streamer Destiny. What I love about this one is that here she is on the show where this pretentious pseudo intellectual always assumes he has the superior knowledge and debate skills, but he doesn't know what he's gotten himself into.

[Andrew Wilson]

There's no or.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Yes, there's no or. Well, the or. Here is the more reasonable assumption. The Founding Fathers wrote in an explicit separation of church and state at a federal level because that's what they wanted. They understood that when you blend a church and state, it corrupts not only the nation, which they had just separated from a corrupted nation.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, that's not what happened. What happened? First of all, they had not just done this. Okay, okay. They had the Articles of Confederation first. That happened first. And what happened is they were just not able to govern as. Because each state was like a mini kingdom and they wanted their own currency and their own militaries. Okay. And so for like the common defense, they wanted to have some sort of federalism in order to do this.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Did they unify under one currency?

[Andrew Wilson]

That was one of the primary reasons they wanted unification was because of a currency.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

So why couldn't they unify under one religion?

[Andrew Wilson]

Because what you wanted was you wanted to have trade between each state. But when you're talking about their religions, they were. This was pan Protestant, so there was no unification there.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

So they were willing to unify on a whole bunch of stuff, but they just couldn't for the life of them figure out a way to unify the religions because they actually did want the church and state to be blended. They wanted the church to have weight and say on statecraft, they just couldn't write it in at the federal level. So they just let state, well, who's the church?

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

All right, so that's a little bit of a fragment, but you get the picture. He thinks he's the expert and she starts to read, really deconstruct his argument. We'll get into a little more depth here with Kyla because Andrew Wilson doesn't learn his lesson. He tries here to go at Kyla's grasp of logic and epistemology and her firmness and clarity in the clip you're about to hear is marvelous. I want you to note how she just refuses every attempt he makes to dominate her and she turns the tables on him right from the start and then keeps it that way. In classic Christian apologist debate style, he's trying to undermine the basis for her moral reasoning, but he's out of his depth. And by the way, she actually is a Christian and goes on a lot of Christian podcasts. She's a progressive Christian. A quick note, she's going to reference Agrippa's Trilemma. This is a concept attributed to a 1st century Greek philosopher who pointed out that if we push down far enough on any argument at their foundations, many of our knowledge claims always require certain intuitive assumptions. So the trilemma part refers to the three versions he identified of this problem. One is infinite regress, meaning every justification we make actually requires another justification and it just keeps going. Or circular reasoning in which we argue for a truth while not realizing that Our argument already assumes its own truth. It's like saying you must obey the law because it is illegal not to do so. Right. And his third one, his third observation in the trilemma is just that. We often have, at bottom, some straightforward dogmatic assertion in which we end up saying the foundational claim is just self evidently true. It just is.

[Andrew Wilson]

What now is the argument for me to impose Christian nationalism?

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Let me ask that to you.

[Andrew Wilson]

Because I want to.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

You're just assuming that I want to. Yeah, but that.

[Andrew Wilson]

You're just assuming that tautology.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

That doesn't make it right.

[Andrew Wilson]

Exactly. So it's fine to do so.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Why are you saying that it's an ought statement?

[Andrew Wilson]

Because I want it to be. Because I assume it.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Okay, so your system is wholly unjustifiable. There's no reason why Christians should do it. They're just like moving on.

[Andrew Wilson]

And there's no reason for Christians not to do it.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Okay, I'm a foundationalist, so I believe in.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, but you assume your foundations can't be justified.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Everyone assumes foundations. Foundations. You've already granted me this.

[Andrew Wilson]

Then if that's the case, then who cares what your foundation is?

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Because in philosophy we typically ground foundations to some extent.

[Andrew Wilson]

We don't do anything in philosophy. I don't know what you do with philosophy, but.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Okay, Mr. Philosopher, in any level of respected philosophy, we assume.

[Andrew Wilson]

Which respected philosophers.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Aristotle, Plato, Socrates.

[Andrew Wilson]

Socrates assumed that you couldn't justify anything?

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Well, sort of. What we do is we grant assumptions because we understand that at a foundational level they're all unjust, justified.

[Andrew Wilson]

All you did was destroy the possibility for there to be objective morality. That's it.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

No, I can't tell if you genuinely don't understand Agrippa's trilemma, maybe, or if you're being bad faith. Those are the only.

[Andrew Wilson]

How am I being bad faith? When you pause an argument and I ask you about it.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Relax, Andrew. I said there's two options. You genuinely don't understand or you're being bad faith.

[Andrew Wilson]

There's a third option, which is maybe you don't understand.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

I do understand how dilemmas work.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, then what's. Agrippa's trilemma is like a trout. Yeah, I just want to make sure. A grip.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Philosophical test of logic.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay, I got it. So when you're talking about Agrippa's trilemma, would you have a. Any criticisms for your. For this argument that you're making?

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

I can't solve it. That's the, that's the point of the dilemma.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay. So when you say that, the. When I ask you, is Agrippa's trilemma true?

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

I can't solve it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Is it true, though?

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Is a trolley problem true? Is Euthyphro's Dilemma true? What are we doing right now?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I think, I think philosophically you can, you can say that is true or false.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

No, no, the Agrippa's child Lemm isn't a conclusion. Agrippa's trilemma is a problem. It's a philosophical problem. Is Euthyphro's Dilemma true?

[Andrew Wilson]

Wait, wait, wait. I'm not talking about them talking about Agrippa's trilemma.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Yeah, it's a problem. In the same way that Euthyphro's dilemma is.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

Okay, he's so flustered and she is so unintimidated. I think what I love about all three of these women and why I wanted to share these clips with you today is that they are unwilling to fold in the face of male bullying. And, and it's. It's really admirable. So I bow down to not so erudite Kyla Turner. Like so many other Christian nationalists, Andrew Wilson often defends his belief that women should not have the vote by saying, well, the founding Fathers didn't give them the vote. And there is an argument that women depend on men for protection to maintain ownership of land, and so only men should have the vote because women couldn't do that for themselves. But I noticed something really funny here, which is that on this whatever podcast, in the face of the kinds of debate opponents that, that we've been covering so far, he got so owned, he got so destroyed in these cases that he ended up calling his wife in to try to fight back against the mean feminists. And of course, this is somewhat opportunistic and hypocritical because as much as these guys think a woman belongs in the kitchen, and as much as the female conservative boss babes that we've talked about on this podcast build their careers preaching the gospel of raising kids and making a home instead of having a career, getting his wife on camera is likely good for their family bank balance. So her name is Rachel Wilson, and the clip I've selected for you features someone who is actually a fellow conservative. Her name is Driana Sixto. Unusual name, Driana Sixto. She's a former media spokesperson for Turning Point usa. But she's made a name for herself as a conservative feminist going up against these manosphere schmucks. She has 43,000 followers on Instagram and currently works for the nonprofit Lincoln Media Foundation. Not the Never Trump Lincoln Project. This is something else, the Lincoln Media Foundation.

[Driana Sixto]

If women didn't vote anymore, we would never have another Democrat president, we would never have another Democrat Senate, and we would never have another Democrat Congress.

[Rachel Wilson]

You're right. You're right, Rachel.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

So that's one of the.

[Rachel Wilson]

You're making the argument that because people disagree with my personal political beliefs that I should take away their right to vote. I'd like to, and I disagree with that. I think that the way to get people to vote, how I want them to, is by arguing that my ideas are better than somebody else's, not taking away somebody else's right to vote. Because then you'd have to make the argument, Rachel, that we should take away black people's rights to vote. Or that would be a good thing.

[Driana Sixto]

Why would we have to say.

[Rachel Wilson]

Let me finish. Because Black people vote 80 to 90% Democrat in every presidential election, which is a racist, obviously, position to have. You don't tell people. And your ultimate solution isn't to stop people from voting because you don't get what you want. It's making arguments to convince said people that your ideas are better.

[Driana Sixto]

Well, I don't give a crap about democracy. I don't like the.

[Rachel Wilson]

I'm glad to clarify that.

[Driana Sixto]

Yeah, I don't. I'm not a. I'm not a democracy enjoyer. I know that you Iran. I know you think that's cool.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

Okay, so I know she's not technically on our side, but listen, principled conservatives espousing democratic values are always a welcome sight to me. Her logic is unassailable here, and it gets Rachel Wilson to go mask off and acknowledge that she is not actually a democracy enjoyer. So for this clip at least, I can't vouch for the rest of her views. 10 out of 10. For Driana Sixto, I'm going to end here with some comments about democracy and enlightenment values, an extension of which is the value of reason, evidence, and open debate as part of free speech. This is coming from Natalie Wynne. Do you know her? She's the acclaimed left wing transgender video essayist on YouTube. She's known there as Contrapoints. She's truly an artist and an intellectual. I highly recommend her stuff. Now, this is Contrapoints or Natalie Wynn on the brilliant Doom scroll podcast, which I also highly recommend. It's hosted by Joshua Citarella, who is himself an acclaimed artist and also an expert and author on the topic of online political movements. He's been covering this since early on and his knowledge of it is really encyclopedic. I'm going to let Contrapoints have the last word for today, but you can think of this as also being a bit of a teaser for my bonus episode. Not this Monday, but next week, which will break down this particular interview between Josh Citarella and Contrapoints for the Doom scroll podcast and discuss the current state of left of center American politics. So I'll see you next time. And here's Contrapoints.

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

What I like about democracy. There's a lot of things to hate about democracy. I feel like I've been encountering a lot of those lately. But I still do like democracy. And one thing I like about it is that it provides a means to change society that doesn't involve like a massive amount of bloodshed.

[Josh Citarella]

It avoids violence.

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, even though it is still upheld by, you know, the order is maintained by police and on the inside and the army on the outside.

[Josh Citarella]

Sweden has police too.

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

Yeah, everyone has police. Like, I think that it's the less violent way of conducting things. Right. And for a time it was possible to change the direction of American government anyway or lots of many, many democratic, liberal democratic governments without outright like civil war. Right. And now it seems like maybe that's going to get harder if things continue going the way they are. I dread that.

[Josh Citarella]

Should the left abandon the Enlightenment?

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

No, I don't. I think that would be a huge mistake in that I think human rights are a good idea in particular. Right. I think that, I mean, I think that you can even be. I mean, a lot of Western Marxists try to reconcile the two. Right. Like, the idea is that in some ways Marxism is an extension of the Enlightenment. Right. Like it's, it's just a broadening of the Enlightenment project to recognize this other type of exploitation that wasn't seen as exploitation by the like classical liberal thinkers.

[Josh Citarella]

And there were socialist Marxist revolutions that cited the Enlightenment and they were part of that lineage.

[Narrator/Carvana Ad Voice]

Yeah, yeah. Or even like, like didn't. Like a Vietnamese Communist American revolution. Yeah. I think that it is a mistake to discard the Enlightenment for, for a couple reasons. Like, one is that I think human rights are a very good idea that we should hold on to. Even a violent revolution ends with the establishment of a new state. Right. And we want that state to maintain some of the Enlightenment project. I, I should hope. Right. I like, I like freedom of speech. I like, I even like freedom of religion, despite its many problems. Cults, for example. Yeah, yeah, right. Like there's a reason why a lot of what most societies do not have. Freedom of religion. Right. But I still like it.

[Julian Walker (Podcast Host)]

I sold my car in Carvana last night.

[Kyla Turner (Not So Erudite)]

Well, that's cool.

[Carvana Customer]

No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.

[Child]

So what's the problem?

[Carvana Customer]

That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.

[Child]

Maybe there's no catch.

[Carvana Customer]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Child]

Wow. You need to relax.

[Carvana Customer]

I need to knock on wood. Do we have. What is this? Table wood?

[Child]

I think it's laminate.

[Carvana Customer]

Okay. Yeah. That's good. That's close enough.

[Mom]

Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.