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- [00:00]
Michelle Rossabi
Protein bars are very hard to sell. So as an emerging brand, it's really hard to carve out space for yourself. We made a very clear decision of like any channel we enter into has to be profitable. We have to make money.
- [00:10]
Interviewer
Michelle Rossabi was working 16 hour days and couldn't find a protein snack her body could actually handle. So she created her own. She launched Olavi to fill the gap for clean, gut, friendly, low sugar snacks and scaled it into a fast growing brand that's now sold in Costco, Whole Foods and other major national retailers. Today, Alavi is redefining what better for you indulgence looks like, like for a new generation of consumers.
- [00:33]
Michelle Rossabi
I think a lot of founders struggle with an attachment that they feel to their products as if they're children. But at the end of the day, we have to run a business. We were at that time bringing on some great advisors and he was just like, and you're wasting your resources and spreading yourselves too thin. Cut the line.
- [00:52]
Interviewer
Michelle, thank you so much for coming on the show. How are you?
- [00:56]
Michelle Rossabi
I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
- [00:59]
Interviewer
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for coming. I can't believe we've known each other ever since the beginning of a lobby. That's so amazing.
- [01:05]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, you're an OG that got to see us through the entire journey. So this is, this is very exciting to, to come on here and share our story with you.
- [01:14]
Interviewer
Well, take me back, take me back to that original part. I mean, you were working kind of these 16 hour days, Sephora by night, Equinox. I mean Sephora by day, Equinox by night. What was actually driving you to maintain that pace? And how did you even think about squeezing in, starting a CPG company?
- [01:31]
Michelle Rossabi
I mean, like most stories, these things weren't planned. They kind of just happened. I didn't expect to ever be a CPG founder, but usually most entrepreneurship stories start with a problem. And that's my story. So I was working full time corporate job at Sephora in San Francisco and teaching full time and I'm teaching part time at Equinox as well. And working these long days, I needed snacks that could fuel me. And unfortunately a lot of the protein snacks that were in the cafes upset my stomach because they had sugar, alcohols or dairy or just synthetic artificial ingredients that my body couldn't digest. And I started creating my own products at my house. Sometimes I'd forget them and I kept thinking, I wish you could just buy this out in the wild at the Same time, I think timing has a lot to do with my story too of I was just feeling under fulfilled in my job. I was debating getting an MBA or going back to school for a graduate degree and I was always passionate about health and wellness. And one thing inside of me, I think it was just being in San Francisco in that very great energy of startups and entrepreneurship where I was like why don't I just see if I can create this product on my own and bring it to market. And I didn't know what I know now but I think that kind of served me in that I kept going one step after the next not knowing, you know, how difficult it is to bring a product to market and you know, it's been a six year journey. So we launched January 2020 with my co founder Nikki and we started with one product line and over the years we've iterated, launched new product lines, discontinued our original product line and we've now landed at this incredible hero product line of protein brownies that are absolutely killing it and massive dream retailers like Costco and Whole Foods, H E B and more. And it's just such an exciting journey to be on and to continue being
- [03:19]
Interviewer
on how so tell me a little bit about what, what were part of the problem that you were kind of experiencing when it came to actually protein bars itself or maybe even like the protein, the protein space for you as, as someone who fitness is a very high priority for.
- [03:36]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, so I'm lactose intolerant so I can't do dairy and unfortunately a lot of the protein bars had dairy in them. I also didn't want any added sugars but I also didn't want sugar alcohol. So you had to either choose between something that was, you know, sweetened with sugar alcohols like erythritol or allulose or things that upset the stomach but were low glycemic or you go for refined sugars that were easier to digest but caused a blood sugar spike. And not many products were sweetening their products with honey or dates or coconut sugar, you know, know ingredients that now you're starting to see more products. But back then there weren't any of those. It was either sacrifice taste or sacrifice your stomach. And so it was really trying to create a product that was delicious, that had a great source of plant protein that I could digest and wouldn't weany down or feel like a brick in my stomach. And fortunately in the protein bar snack set, you know, not a lot of products are made with the design for people with Sensitive stomachs, but also just for women who don't want to feel very heavy. And um, you know, I call it the protein set for a reason. Right. A lot of them are created by men and so they're not thinking about the female consumer who has a more sensitive stomach or who, who is more conscious about the ingredients. And that's who we're catering to and who we're doubling down and seeing a lot of success with.
- [04:48]
Interviewer
It's amazing. It's amazing. And that makes that, that makes a ton of sense. So you launched in January 2020, of course, 2020 in March. Covid hits. What was it? Tell me a little bit about what, what your initial launch strategy was, how you had to pivot and what it was like being a new brand when you actually couldn't have any opportunity to sample.
- [05:08]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, that, that was looking back such a difficult time because you don't know how long that was going to last. You thought it was going to be a couple weeks. But we originally were planning to be in the gyms and fitness studios. That was the genesis of how the start the pro, the product got started. We were hoping to be at events, we were hoping to be out in the field sampling to consumers. And we were stripped away from all of that in our first year, which is such an instrumental year to gather data, meet your consumer face to face, get their feedback. And we of course had online and that was a great opportunity to connect with our consumers on a larger scale from not being limited to a geographic location. But nothing beats the in person tasting of being able to meet with consumers and get their feedback in a more qualitative way. And so we pivoted to selling online and that was a great time for cpg. A lot of food and vegetables beverage brands did well during, but at the same time you're, you're lacking that experiential opportunity to build a moment around your product. Right. It's not as transactional. And so, you know, we did great with our collagen protein bar line and held that for a couple years. Got into some great distribution like Lifetime fitness cafes, Google campus offices on Amazon. But at the end of the day, it was not the product line that was going to get us to where we wanted to be. And then when did you know that?
- [06:28]
Interviewer
When did you know that by the way? When did you realize that this was not the product that, that that kind of would actually take off?
- [06:34]
Michelle Rossabi
It wasn't until we launched our second product line of our dessert cashew spreads that we saw such a strong tailwind for that one. And we're like, wow, this is a lot easier sell than our collagen protein bars. And look, protein bars are very hard to sell, and it's a very competitive, saturated category with players that had a lot of money. So as an emerging brand, it's really hard to carve out space for yourself, even if you have a unique ingredient like collagen. It was so hard, and it felt like running up a hill with a backpack on. It was unnecessarily too hard. And when we launched the dessert cashew butters, we had this, like, blue vanilla frosting flavor. We had, you know, this healthier version of a Nutella. And. And just so much innovation, and it allowed us to see, oh, wow, this is what it looks like when a product really lands and hits with a consumer. And so once we saw that and juxtaposed it, then we're like, oh, wow, this collagen protein bar line should probably go, because it's draining our resources. It's doing okay. But what if we were able to focus all of our resources onto this dessert spread line? And we were, at that time, bringing on some great advisors, one of them being Jared Smith from RXBar, who also became an investor. And obviously, I'm gonna respect his opinion, because he had this massive exit with rxbar, and he had a really tough conversation with us, and he was just like, look, like, your collagen protein bars are great, but you were running, like, two companies, and they're so fragmented, they don't even feel related. And you're wasting your resources and spreading yourselves too thin. Cut the line. And we did a model. We ran the numbers, and he was right. And once we cut it, it was the best decision ever. And I like to joke that. Not afraid to kill our first child. And. And it's. It's. And I think it's something that I'm so proud of in that we didn't have that ego around our product lines. If the numbers didn't make sense, we were ready to let it go. And I think a lot of founders struggle with an attachment that they feel to their products as if they're children. But as end of the day, we have to run a business, and it wasn't driving the numbers and momentum that we needed it to compared to the dessert cashew butters. And once we saw that, the decision was a lot easier to make. And so we did that fall of 2023. And then the dessert cashew butters were taking off. They were doing a Road show in Costco. They were getting rotations in Costco, growing like crazy. But behind the scenes, we were developing a protein brownie line that we knew was going to either be a smashing success or flop. We didn't know where it was going to go because it was so innovative, hadn't been brought out to the market. But we had this thesis that we built with the dessert cashew spreads of permissible indulgence. Right. Where can the consumer have a sweet treat but not feel guilty about it, but it be lower in sugar or a little bit higher in protein or made with clean ingredients that can pronounce. And so the dessert cashew butters validated that thesis on permissible indulgence. And so behind the scenes, we were developing these protein brownies with that same idea to relate the product lines together and bring more unity and cohesion to our product platform set. And we developed the protein brownies and launched them rather quickly and those then start to take off and so just been momentum after momentum as we launch a new product line.
- [09:49]
Interviewer
What's your approach? I mean, so you have the one product product line which is the collagen protein bars. Then you launch the dessert cashew spreads. That takes off. You kind of have a conversation of, hey, we're having. We kind of have. We're in two different categories. These are kind of two different companies. And one of them are doing. Is doing really well. The other one is just doing all right, let's cut the one that's just doing okay, which was the first one. Then you launch another set which is the brownies.
- [10:19]
Michelle Rossabi
Yep.
- [10:20]
Interviewer
Was. Why, why didn't you kind of say when you had the dessert. And obviously that was, you know, the right decision with the, with how well the. The protein. Protein po are. Are doing. But was there any sense about when the dessert cashew spreads when you just had that product line that, hey, let's actually just focus on this one product line. Focus on one product line is hard enough. Why, why then, why then innovate right now? Why don't we actually wait a little bit?
- [10:52]
Michelle Rossabi
Our consumers, it was our consumers that drove the protein brownie line because they arguably were. Our consumers were asking us for a protein rich snack. Because once we discontinue the collagen, protein bars are like, well, wait, we trust you guys as a brand. We know you guys create great products. We miss the bars. Will you bring something similar back or will you bring them back? And so we knew before the protein craze started to hit in 2024, 2025, that we needed to create a protein line and who better than fitness instructors to bring this protein dessert line to market? But we wanted it to be the right, right product as we did a lot of market research behind the scenes. And so our consumers were the ones that were demanding this kind of product. And we knew in the back of our heads that it had to be something in the dessert category, not in the bar category. And we stumbled upon something, some fantastic IR data of another similar company that had a protein dessert and they had 700% growth in their first year. And seeing that data was the nail in the coffin for me of like, we need to move quickly. I, that was, for me, we need to move something with protein asap. Because I saw the traction that they were experiencing. This was in 2024, 2023, excuse me. And so, yeah, that, that's how we, we knew it was a combination for consumers asking and then some data that validated some early signals. And then we were like, you know what, we have this advantage of being able to innovate quickly and listen to our consumer and iterate upon that. And so that's what launched the protein brownies. And we're like, let's try it because the cashew butters are doing great. You're right. Like, why would anyone add a second product line? But we have had this feeling in the back of her head and I think the foundry intuition is such a strong voice to listen to. And so I'm really glad that we did because it just unlocks so much more growth for us.
- [12:45]
Interviewer
I know you're a startup, so. And every startup can innovate quickly, right? Because you're a startup, you're not big corporate. But what does it actually look like in terms of innovate quickly? Like how does that work with like your, your comands and you know, the entire supply chain? What, how, how do you actually innovate quickly?
- [13:02]
Michelle Rossabi
There's a couple of things. One, we don't have to answer to anyone or get any corporate sign off or approval. We can move pretty quickly from a test kitchen to a concept, to, you know, prototyping, to getting that consumer feedback right away. Yes, commercialization can take the longest time, but developing the flavors, developing the profiles. It first started with the concept and the idea, then the market research to validate it. Then from there we found this incredible food scientist that we knew could help us push barriers. Because this product has never existed before. It's really, really hard to create a protein brownie that is gluten free. So you're Dealing with a gluten free flour base that's baked, that is vegan. So you are limited in your protein, in your type of protein that you can work with. And that is very, very clean label. There's so many ingredients that I would not allow in our product. And so with all those variables, our food scientist was like, this is not even possible. And so that's on you, the founder, to be like, well, let's try it. And to push against what you think is possible or what a food scientist is telling you is possible, because you have to try to see beyond the status quo and go into that crazy innovation thinking mindset. And so from there, once you have a working prototype or a benchtop, then it's like, how do you find a manufacturer that can produce that product? And we hit a couple roadblocks in our first year trying to find that manufacturer. The first one nearly took all of our money and we almost like ran out of money because they were a partner that misled us. And then in the last hour, we were able to find someone to quickly make prototypes for sweets and snacks. And then at that same show, we met our current manufacturer. And at that same trade show, our Costco buyers met us and made the first order that completely changed the trajectory of our business. So, so I would say it's a.
- [14:54]
Interviewer
Sorry. Made the first order. Not, not for the bounties though, because that, because that was still an R and D for the actual cashew spreads, right?
- [15:02]
Michelle Rossabi
No, well, they, they made the order for our protein brownies.
- [15:05]
Interviewer
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [15:06]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah. So it's only in market for a couple months before it started launching at 85 Costco locations. So it was a very rapid acceleration for, for that product line. So, so to kind of bring it all back of, of being able to move quickly. It's a couple things of. Do you have founder operators that are able to push, push people, push the food scientists, push the food manufacturer, convince people to take a chance on their vision? Can you execute quickly in getting packaging and getting, procuring the ingredients and in sourcing and vetting manufacturers? Like, having a lean team allows us to move very quickly in that capacity and just not take no for an answer and be able to convince people. We also had a track record with previous product lines that we knew what we were doing. It's not like were, you know, two young founders with no track record or experience. We had been doing this for like four or five years. And then that, that paired with, with just the, the, the sheer grit to, to move things quickly because we knew we had something great and we wanted to get it to market as soon as possible.
- [16:05]
Interviewer
It's amazing. How did you think about. I know that you got into Costco with protein bounties very, very quickly. Congratulations on, on that. And also making mean. I know that they're selling like wildfire. It's incredible. How did you overall though, when you think about AAVI in the different stages, how did you think about route to market? Which which retailers were the right retailers to. To partner, partner with or at least test? What was. How do you think about that and. And your different sales channels?
- [17:24]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, such a great question. And I think it depends on the timing of where you're at in your business. And for us all this was happening around like 2020, 2023, 2024. And when you go back and think about at that time, that was an extremely difficult funding environment where a lot of investors were moving upstream, so there's barely any capital for early stage. And all of a sudden there was this huge shift in the environment from going growth at all costs in 2020, 2021, when money was just being handed out like crazy to food and BE brands and to hit profitability and that shift. We had already always been trying to hit profitability because we're first time founders, we're women, I'm a woman of color, so already nobody want to give us money and we had all the ads odds stacked against us. So it's like we have to hit profitability as soon as possible. You have to be thinking about our economics because we don't even have money to do grow at all costs. But at that time the shift started to really, really materialize. And so we took a look at our business when all these things were happening. We discontinued a product line, we're developing new product line and we made a very clear decision of like any channel we enter into has to be profitable, we have to make money. We don't have the luxury of burning for the first year and then we'll make some money or we can fundraise later. We had to make sure. And so that's how we figured out our market channel. Costco is a fantastic partner because you're able to, you know, scale up your volume, but also they pay you on time, they're a reliable partner. We're able to get inventory financing because Costco is the gold standard of a retailer. Whereas you see these other channels that they don't pay you on time, they don't pay you in full. And I've seen a lot of brands go out of business to try to fund those launches. And so we had this very deliberate channel strategy of only going after channels where we can make money because we need it to make money. And that's what drove. Drove everything.
- [19:21]
Interviewer
So how did you get into Costco?
- [19:24]
Michelle Rossabi
They discovered us at a trade show, so.
- [19:27]
Interviewer
Oh, right. Sweet snacks. Sweet snacks.
- [19:29]
Michelle Rossabi
But.
- [19:29]
Interviewer
But weren't you. Were you also in Costco at already with the dessert cashew spreads?
- [19:36]
Michelle Rossabi
Yes. So the dessert cashew spreads, I just cold pitch them, honestly over email, and somehow they responded. I thought it was fake. When I got a phone call from them, I didn't believe it at first. And they said, your email came across our desk. We'd love to try samples. And this was for our cashew butters. So I cold emailed them. The buyers got back to me within a few days. They tried samples. They liked it, and we did a roadshow to prove ourselves. And my co founder, Nikki and I hustled for that roadshow because we knew that was our one shot to get into Costco. If we could pull off great numbers, then we can potentially get in line to sell our products. And we put everything on the line. We did every single virtual ourselves. We set up, we took down. We sold for 12, 15 hours nonstop. Didn't even eat. We're standing the entire time. Barely took a bathroom break. And we were able to pull off incredible numbers to the point where our buyers were like, okay, we'll bring you in. So we did a couple rotations with our chocolate cashew butters. Amazing. But at that time, we were developing the protein brownies, and when we launched those, those numbers were incredible. They were also in a category that just has faster turns, stronger velocities, and we're selling at a higher price. And so when Costco saw these numbers, they were like, hey, we can't have too much of your business. There's this Costco concentration rule that they don't want to have 90% of your business. And they're like, you're going to have to pick. And so we chose the protein brownies to be our hero product in Costco. And we pulled back the cashew butters so that we could focus on a product line that was really taking off.
- [21:13]
Interviewer
Wow. I can't believe Costco, actually. You were so successful in Costco that you actually, you. You actually need to make a decision on which product line you actually want to keep in Costco. I. I can't imagine how many times that happens. I'm sure it's. I'm sure it's very, very few.
- [21:31]
Michelle Rossabi
It's truly surreal. And I think another reason why we were so successful in Costco is because we didn't distract ourselves with other retail channels that would have made it hard for us to go all in on Costco. We, of course, had DTC and Amazon and other channels that helped diversify away from Costco, but from a retailer standpoint, we just wanted to give Costco our all. And that's what also led to such a strong partnership.
- [21:56]
Interviewer
Well, how. How do you think overall when it comes to retail? I mean, obviously you are very concentrated in Costco, but how do you even think about other channels? Like, for example, would you only stay in mass. Does it make sense to even go in natural or are you in natural or kind of. What. What are your. What are your thoughts on. On. On channel diversification?
- [22:15]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, I love diversifying our channels. And we use Costco as this very strategic springboard. Think of it as like a marketing channel, right? You're able to sample at scale. You're able to bring that legitimacy and credibility to the brand. And then I was able to leverage the Costco effect to get us into other channels. And so from day one, we always wanted to diversify away from Costco, and we continue to do so, and our buyers even support that. And so I was mentioning this before the call, but I cold emailed the Whole Foods buyer and got a response within a few hours. And it's a combination of me just shooting my shot, but also timing, knowing that protein is very hot and people wanted a permissible indulgent snack. But also having the track record with other retailers is. Is what I think the buyers wanted to bet on, too. So the Whole Foods buyer, a global buyer, already approved us for a national launch. And so we got that straight off the bat. But I want to develop more flavors before we launch nationally in Whole Foods, which we're going to do in May. So we started with one region for the past five months, and then now we're launching national with three flavors in. In the next two months. So. So the way I think about segmenting out is. Is diversifying and making sure that we launch in the right time. So for Whole Foods, I didn't want to launch nationally until we raised a proper venture capital round, because the way that Whole Foods works is you work with a distributor, so you have to have someone else taking a cut of your pay, of your. Of your pay, essentially. And they don't always pay on time, they don't always pay in full. And so you have to be very mindful of your cash flow conversion cycle and you have to be mindful of, you know, it might not be profitable for the first six to nine months and the mechanics of working with the distributor and just the cost of doing business. And so knowing that and having great advisors that warned me about what it's really like to do business with your natural groceries of the world. I made sure that we raised enough capital to make sure that we were okay to pull off a national Whole Foods launch, to make sure we were okay to, to pull off a whole H E B launch in 250 locations. So it's all about timing too, which I don't think many people think about.
- [24:34]
Interviewer
I think what's quite, quite fascinating about this and makes total sense is I would say usually the first route to market for brands typically is a natural channel and then you go mass and then it's are you going to excel in mass? Right. Like will this product actually work for the mass consumer? But what's interesting from what you're saying in terms of the cash flow cycle and also raising, you're actually fundraising to actually make sure that, that, that you are successful in the natural channel. Whereas in Costco and mass, even though I'd imagine it's a lot more volume, it actually, you actually don't need to raise in your position as much money because, because in terms of the, because of the terms your customer pays on time and all these little things that really add up that you actually don't need to raise money even though it's massive. Know mass retail.
- [25:28]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, yeah. Because think about it, you're direct and when you think about inventory financing your lenders, you, you have to make sure that it's de risk as much as possible. And there's so many horror stories with distributors not paying on time, not paying in full deductions, chargebacks, everyone in the industry knows it. And so that doesn't happen with Costco. Costco is like the gold standard. And so it's easy for us to get inventory financing from lenders for Costco so that we can profitably scale. And it also showed us as a business and it pressure tested us as a business. Can our operations handle this much? Can we procure this much? Can we? It just gave us better purchasing power for ingredients and so it allowed us to get really, really dialed in our cogs, in our purchasing, in our demand plan, in production. And that's what I think also helped us as a business, which is pressure test the business of can we handle massive Scale and we did. And that's what makes entry points into other channels easier.
- [26:29]
Interviewer
What learnings or insights do you get within Costco? Obviously you have your sales data, but apart from that, how do you think about learnings of your, of your customer through, through Costco or, or even other retail channels?
- [26:45]
Michelle Rossabi
What's really unique about Costco is that they are such a demo heavy channel. Not many retailers require demos or have a very big demo program, but that's the culture of Costco is demos. And so I made it a point to do as many demos as I could to get in the field, talk to customers, see how we were merchandise, see the difference of merchandising, understanding the lingo, understanding the culture of Costco. So I embedded myself, I chatted with the staff, I asked them what performs well. I looked at all of our competitors in the competitive set. I looked at what was important for pricing architecture. If something is priced beyond this threshold, then a consumer might consider it too high. So I ingrained myself with Costco by being in the field and those insights helped me understand not only that channel, but just on a broader level how consumers think from a shopper marketing strategy, right? Consumers want to find something that they understand right off the bat. You don't want to have a consumer second guess something. So can your packaging tell your consumer in 05 seconds what it is? And we've gone viral on a post on TikTok talking about how we broke the rules of packaging where we didn't have our logo big, we actually had protein brownie really big and prominent and then a lobby on the bottom. And that focus really then allowed us to understand, okay, the consumer just wants to know what it is and can we create something that checks the boxes for them, whether it's calling out that it's gluten free or dairy free or sweetened with dates. And so that process of being in the field, talking to consumers, talking to the people in the store, talking to our buyers, and then letting that kind of be iterative allowed us to, to really think about, okay, how do we continue to serve the consumer and create products that they will come back to again and again?
- [28:31]
Interviewer
Do you, do you think also how do you think about packaging as well? I love that you have that call out from on the packaging, protein brownie is the dominant and a lot of you is a lot smaller. It seems like since you're building a new category that it's really just the name of the category on the actual, on the actual product itself. And then it's your Logo. How do you think about that in terms of if a company, for example, is building a differentiated product in maybe the same category, if the branding should be more prominent? Like, if you have any thoughts in terms of how, how a brand should think about their brand versus the product that they're actually selling on the packaging.
- [29:14]
Michelle Rossabi
What I love about CPG is that it's not a one size fits all approach. And you have to go with what you know, what your consumers resonate with. And you only know that by being in the field. You and I would literally go stand in the aisles and I would ask consumers, why'd you pick that up? Why'd you put that down? What are you looking for? What are the gaps? I would look at Amazon reviews of our competitors, of our products and look at what our patterns and I think for an astute founder, pattern recognition is going to be your best friend of understanding what are the key patterns that you're noticing and, and continue to listen to that. So for us, our patterns that we were noticing was consumers were flipping to the back. They want to look at the ingredients that they cared about, the calories, the protein count, all that. Then they looked at, you know, what were the ingredients for their, our consumers, the conscious consumer. But also they like to have things simplified for them. Right. You see in Costco and other retailers, people go up and scan things on apps to tell them if it's good or bad. Right. People just want to be told at the same time what. What is good or bad or what is healthy. That's why influencers have amassed massive followings by going around into different retailers and saying, this is good, this is bad. People are so overloaded cognitively, and I think we all are too. And so I think it's also the simplification aspect that. That was a big, big insight for me too, just being in the field and just being a consumer myself, that the Keep it simple, stupid. The KISS method is also a great guiding light.
- [31:39]
Interviewer
Yeah, that's helpful. That's really helpful. How. How did you think overall in terms of your fundraising strategy? I remember you mentioned in the early on that it was really hard. I mean, it seems like it's always, it's always really challenging fundraising when I talk to founders. But how did you think about when was the right time to fundraise? What were kind of the main reasons did you find getting turned down from the beginning? And where are you at currently when it. Regarding what you're thinking about in the future when it comes to fundraising?
- [32:07]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, I mean, looking back look, this is my first time fundraising. When you think about the true company, I'm first time founder. I also am a woman of color. And you know, this is my first time in this industry. So the odds were stacked against me. I knew that. And I think it's a combination of just having to effectively get metaphorically punched a million times and then just get back up. So you have to kind of build that thick skin because it really does just take one. Yes. But at the same time, you have to find your right investor at the right time. And I would encourage any entrepreneur to think about fundraising as a proper sales funnel. Right. Think of it, think about it as like you're a salesperson, so you're qualifying your leads, you're building your CRM, you, you're, you know, reaching out to them, identifying who's a cold lead, who's a warm lead. Maybe you can get an intro. And you want to also get some reps practicing pitching. You don't want to just go to your dream investor when you haven't gone through the motions, anticipated questions that they would push back on. And you have to really just go back and continue refining based on feedback you're getting, but also not internalize any negative or rejections or anything that feels like it's personal. It's really not. And so, you know, for a fundraising strategy, I would say always start early, start before you need capital. Make sure you get as many reps as you can before you start pitching to, you know, your pool of dream investors. So pitch to angel investors, pitch to family offices, lower stakes funds and firms. And, and then I would also say try to build a really strong business first. When I was first fundraising, there were ideas just getting funded. And that has completely changed now. Unless you have a business that has strong unit economics or a clear plan, established traction, investors don't want to invest in an idea anymore. Right. Everything has to be somewhat de whisked and it depends on the type of investor. But mistakes I made was I would go after investors that were just not investing my category or, or they weren't investing at my size or stage, or they were investing in my category, but no, no, or they were, but no longer are. And you just have to accept that and just keep getting back up and understanding that markets can change. And so what I wish I did earlier was just understand the market as a whole so that I wouldn't get beat up about an investor saying no. I'm like, well, maybe they just don't have money and it has nothing to do with me or maybe their LPs are saying, hey, stop investing in CPG. And that has nothing to do with me. I, and I would, I wish I was more protective about my time. I would just take any call with anyone and I was, wasn't qualifying the investors to find the right investors for me, but the investors that ended up, you know, leading our Series A, they reached out to me and I think that goes to show that if you build a strong business and you just focus on of course sharing your traction and, and I also build in public too and, and I share a lot on social media and I think that puts us on radars of investors very easily. Then they will come to you. It's, it's a lot like dating. You don't want to chase, you want to attract. And so I for the first few years was chasing and I was trying to get an investor but at the end of the day, if I had, if I could go back and do this again, I would just focus more of my time on just building, sharing in public and eventually people talk, people share, you know, it's, it's a very close knit community. You'll organically get noticed and then the investors will reach out to you.
- [35:44]
Interviewer
How. Love that advice, Love that advice. How do you think as well around the trajectory? I know you're now going to be launching nationwide and Whole Foods, which is incredible. So if you shop at Whole Foods, definitely, definitely pick up the protein, the protein brownies. But how do you think about overall the trajectory of AAVI and as well as the hamster wheel that it, that can be venture capital, right, where you raise a venture round, raise a series A, then you raise series B and you kind of keep going. Now I know as well as it's looking at the opportunity and the size of the opportunity you have and if you think that it's a massive opportunity, then it makes a lot of sense to raise a lot of money for, to, to, to be the kind of maybe first to market and to capture the opportunity. But how do you think about over the overall trajectory when it comes to fundraising? Size of business at a lobby can be.
- [36:41]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, I mean I think the term hamster wheel is really funny, but it's what you make of it. And when we were raising and like I said earlier, like we didn't have the luxury to build this growth at all cost business. So from day one we were all,
- [36:56]
Interviewer
do you, do you think if you did have the luxury to build a growth at all cost business, business, business, right. What would you have done it.
- [37:06]
Michelle Rossabi
It's so hard to say because that wasn't my experience. So it's hard to imagine that scenario that wasn't handed to me in some ways maybe because all my peers, there were other brands in our, you know, in our precede round portfolio that did the growth at all costs and they crashed and burned and they went out of business. So look, blessing in disguise that we didn't have as much access to capital as other brands did in 2021. Because yeah, how can you not like you have all this money so don't you want to spend it? And there's investors that are expecting 4 or 5x growth and they're expecting tech multiples and it's really hard not to get caught up in that. And I think there's a maturity level of a founder that NCO that I've grown into, into years three, four, five, six that I didn't have in my first early years to push back on an investor and be like, hey, that's great that you want that but I'm going to be real with you and honest with you that like that's not going to happen, but I will deliver a 2 1/2, 3x healthy growth that is going to put us on a path profitability. I think it's very hard as a, as a founder to be able to push back against your investor and, and set expectations properly and, and to not just say, yes, I'll do that, I'll do that and I'll raise more later. So it, it's, it's hard to answer that question because it's like that you can always postulate on, on, on what would have been. But I always like to say, look, blessing in disguise. Everything happens for a reason. And thank goodness because it forced us to be extremely disciplined, look at every single line item on our P and L and treat every single dollar with such scrutiny that it forced us to be extremely, extremely hands on and just say no to a lot of things. And I think this was your podcast. Melissa Ficina from City Capital said this and it landed with me of pick one retailer to be your vanity account where it looks good, good, it looks nice. And then every other retailer to be profitable and make sure you're looking at your numbers. And that stuck with me early. That was such great advice and I, I love that, that discipline and, and I'm glad that we carried that discipline and to kind of round out this whole response of this hamster wheel, I'm, I'm going to build a, we're on, on path to build a profitable company. We're, we're almost at EBITDA positive. And if you have that discipline in that clear line of sight from day one, you start saying no to things that just sound nice and start just always coming back to that number. I'm like, what's going to get us to profitability? What's going to get us to profitability? And that discipline is, is our North Star.
- [39:32]
Interviewer
Well, what, So I love that advice from Melissa. What is your vanity retailer then? Because it seems like Costco is your vanity retailer, but at the same time it's also maybe your most profitable retailer as well. Right.
- [39:44]
Michelle Rossabi
I'll share with you offline because I don't want to like, call them out for our vanity retailer is, but it's basically a vanity retailer is like, you know, you're not making a ton of money, but it looks good to be in that account. And so you're, you're just going to be in there because, you know, it builds brand credibility, you know, it like, you know, build like that authority in the space. And while it might not bring in a ton of money, you know, it's good for the brand. And so I, I think of that as our vanity, like, brand account and the other accounts. I, I just, I, I say, I literally tell my brokers, I'm like, I will run a full P and L analysis on any retailer you bring me and if it doesn't hit profitability, then I don't want it launching them. And so that discipline is, is very much in our DNA.
- [40:32]
Interviewer
Wow, that's, that's awesome. That's really, really cool. That's really cool. And I, I, I'm, I'm surprised that it's not, that is hot Costco. So that makes, that makes also a
- [40:43]
Michelle Rossabi
great, a great, great partner. I could not recommend them more. They're like such a fantastic retailer. But I like to also caution entrepreneurs and founders that they can help you as much as they can hurt you. And if you're not prepared to handle the volume, the scale, the expectations of a Costco, don't do it or wait. Because yes, it's very shiny and it's fantastic partner to work with. They're so dialed, but at the same time, you get one shot and you don't want to mess it up. And so I always like to caution founders of like, I know we make it look easy at a lobby and we've experienced great success, but it's also a lot of behind the scenes that you're not seeing of how hard we're hustling.
- [41:25]
Interviewer
Has there ever been a retail launch and you don't have to mention the retailer, if not but any retail launch that actually looking back, you shouldn't have gone inside retailer or launched them at. Or launched at that moment in time?
- [41:37]
Michelle Rossabi
Yes. And I don't want to out them out publicly. But yeah, we, we pulled ourselves out and that was during the 2023 shift where we were looking at our P Ls and we're like, where are we losing money? And we cut ourselves out of retailers and partners that were just bleeding as capital and it looked nice to be on and we had five vanity retail accounts and so we had to trim it down to one at a time. And it can shift like one year. It could be this retailer's or vanity account and then you get it to profitability and it's great. And then you like layer on a new vanity retailer account. So. So it kind of also depends. But yeah, there's several that, I mean, if a founder wants to DM me privately, I'm happy. I don't want to like have this retailer come after me.
- [42:20]
Interviewer
What. And, and in terms of what went wrong, we're not, not good. We're not, we're not going to name any. But in terms of what went wrong, just for learnings, what, what did kind of go wrong? Was it just that the, that it wasn't profitable, that it wasn't kind of the right channel? Like what actually made it not right? Not the right channel?
- [42:36]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, it was just too expensive. The price, the price of entry was too expensive. And unfortunately you, when you're an early stage brand, you just want to say yes to everything and you're just so excited to get even a yes that you just say yes and figure it out later. And I commend that and I totally understand that. But at the end of the day, you have to build a business. And so this particular one retailer, they had really high slotting fees, they had huge marketing expectations and just the number of stores that they had couldn't justify paying that much to be in. And so it's really just, it's a simple math equation. You know what we're doing in cpg, it's not rocket science. I was chatting with my friend Sandro from Sanzo and you're chatting about something. You was just like, what we're doing is not rocket science, Michelle. Like, it's really just numbers when you drill it down of just analyzing things. And that really just clicked for me and I totally resonate with that. So it's like, can you do the disciplined work of removing the excitement and the ego and the emotions of entering into a retailer and do the simple math of like, what does it cost? How much are they expecting me to pay? How much am I expect ding to receive in actual payables? And does this make sense? Over six months, 12 months? At what point will I make my money back? And if it's longer than a year, then that's a question for you to ask yourself. Can you handle that not making money in an account? And so if you have extra cash in the bank, okay, and you can justify it, great. But if you're, you know, struggling to fundraise or you know, you're just trying to be as profitable as possible and then, then you have to say no and focus on channels that you can get bigger wins in sooner.
- [44:14]
Interviewer
Do you, I know you're right. Now in two different categories, do you want to enter a third category? Is, is there still innovation to go in a third or is it really focusing on the protein bounties?
- [44:24]
Michelle Rossabi
Right now we're just scratching the surface with the protein brownies. We currently have three flavors in market. We're launching two more in the next few months. We're launching an exclusive with Whole Foods and we are exploring new form factors. And so there's so much already to do with the protein brownies that I feel confident for the next two years focusing on that. But look, if there is an innovation opportunity that our consumers are driving, kind of same way with the protein brownies, they're asking for something and there's a clear market gap and there's data and insights showing me that this hasn't been done before. Absolutely, I'm happy to explore that. But there's also, like I said, there's a beauty in the simplicity. Great example is Chomps 500 million plus business and they're focusing on meat sticks and they're able to keep their supply chain super dialed. They're profitable. They're doing such an amazing job building a love brand so you don't have to keep iterating and innovating a million different product lines because that spreads your team thin, that spreads your supply chain wider, that makes it more things for you to keep track of, more category reviews, more channels to think about. So to answer your question directly, I'm not saying no, but not right now,
- [46:29]
Interviewer
Supply chain wise, for your two different product lines, is it the same supply chain or similar or is it completely different when it comes to co packers
- [46:35]
Michelle Rossabi
and everything like that there is some overlap from ingredients and making sure manufacturing is dialed from like a team standpoint as well. But then there's, of course, like just different differences in packaging, differences in, in ingredients. Not everything overlaps, but we do source every single ingredient. And that's been important for me from day one. I do not recommend turnkey for brands because at the end of the day, you need to have that direct supplier relationship with all of your ingredients because you're going to be the ones that can better negotiate for your behalf. You're going to be the ones that can better inspect it for quality, for. For quality, qa, quality assurance, and you're going to have more visibility into everything. And so we source all of our ingredients, we try to source domestically as much as possible, and we produce in the United States as well. So we have such a. We carry that discipline about channel strategy, about packaging into our operations and supply chain, because that literally is the core of our business. And making sure that we have backup suppliers, making sure that we're consistently investing in team members that can just level up our ops and supply chain procurement, demand planning. And that's what I'm focusing on right now, which is really exciting as a leader to build out that team. So, yeah, it's such an exciting area to get into the business. While it's not sexy, it's so critical. And, um, yeah, it's just constant learnings.
- [48:10]
Interviewer
So it seems like that's. That's incredible. Um, it seems like proteins everywhere these days in all sorts of different categories. Has that been a massive tailwind for you all?
- [48:20]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, of course. I mean, we launched the protein brownies in May of 2024. So the protein craze started to hit 2025. So we're able to ride that beautifully. And protein is never going to go away. Right. It's just having this renaissance and this excitement about it. What I find really interesting is that for the first time, women are now outnumbering men in seeking more protein. And that is something that I am rapidly paying attention to. And then you pair that with the fact that over 80% purchasing decisions are made by women. And you walk the Costco aisle, you look at the protein bar set. Mike, we are the only one that's women owned.
- [48:59]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [48:59]
Michelle Rossabi
It's crazy.
- [49:00]
Interviewer
That's amazing.
- [49:02]
Michelle Rossabi
And so when you think about the consumer, she's seeking protein. She wants a brand that she can trust. And to see a brand that is created not only by women, but women fitness trainers who are in their 30s who understand, you know, what she's going through, she is busy. Maybe she has kids, maybe she is like trying to get healthier on her fitness journey. Maybe she's on GLP1 know that that female consumer who's 25, 30 plus, who might be pre per menopause, who might be going through menopause, who is looking for something that is sweet and indulgent because she has a sweet tooth, but she also wants to get more protein so she can feel full and, and good about what she's and what she's consuming. That consumer is so underserved because right now a lot of the protein bar snack products are targeted towards men, targeted towards more is more. And for our consumer, she's looking for quality protein. She's looking for, you know, is this naturally sweetened? Is this gonna digest properly? Is this gonna not make me feel bloated? Our top ad is basically talking about how our protein bodies don't make you feel bloated. And I think women are so attuned with their bodies and how they feel and more conscious of that versus a guy, he probably doesn't know he's bloated, right? Or maybe he doesn't care. But, but our consumer, she's so hypersensitive and so she could find a product that does give her protein and fiber and doesn't upset her stomach and nourishes her and energizes her, energizes her through different stages of life, whether she's breastfeeding or, or, you know, trying to conceive that. That's where I get really excited, is to create a product with so much integrity in a space that historically is not creating products with integrity, is just trying to cheapen and create the, you know, lowest quality product with the highest profit margin. That's where I feel there's an opportunity for us to really bring innovation and take significant market share.
- [50:55]
Interviewer
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a ton of sense. And that's, it's just amazing. Just amazing that. Congratulations. It's just, that's just very, very cool. With everything you've learned and everything that you've accomplished so far with the lobby. What, what's one thing you do completely different in the first year?
- [51:21]
Michelle Rossabi
If I was to go back, what would I do differently. In my first year? I would not. Here's what I would do and here's what I wouldn't do. I would not waste time chasing investor. I would just focus on building, on listening to a consumer, on trying to create the best product for them. I Think it gets so tempting to want to take an investor call or go out and fundraise and chat with investors or try to get money, save up money beforehand to give you that luxury to build and to just be so in the build with your product and with your consumers. And I wish I didn't have that distraction the first year because I thought, let me just build something and then in six months I'll go out. That was a distraction. So I think protecting my time was, was a lesson that took me a while to get to. Took me several years. And if I could go back and tell my younger self, you have to be protective of your time because that is something you don't get back. What I would also do is I would be online more and share more publicly and build in public. I think the first year or two that was right when TikTok was just coming out. It was so weird to be a brand on TikTok. Everybody was just dancing and lip syncing and so there wasn't that storytelling and virality like you see now. I think Allison from Poppy was the first big brand that really jumped on there and made it okay. But I wish I did more storytelling, more behind the scenes. You're seeing a lot of brands take off now building on the backs of the Allison's at Poppy because, you know, she was the first, you know, matriarch of really storytelling and I wish we did that more. I think we were just so afraid of sharing information. I don't know why we were so paranoid. But there's also this kind of, you don't want to be cringe and you just kind of get over it at a certain point. So I wish we shared more behind the scenes because you have this very sweet time in this first year where you're this underdog and you, you know, have all the ads odds stacked up against you. That's why Shark Tank is such a successful show is people like to cheer on the newbie, the, the upper up and coming brand. And so I wish we leaned more into that. We just posted a lot of photos of people holding the products and I'm like, that does. Doesn't do anything for people. People have to feel connected. People want to hear a story. So I wish I got on the camera more and just story told and shared a little bit more and built more in public because you're seeing these brands that are just taking off because they, they are doing that right away. So. So that's what I would do differently.
- [53:48]
Interviewer
No, I, I love that because it's it's so interesting too just on the social media side, how many brands, that's become a huge part of their strategy and gosh, they've done amazing, amazing with it. Thinking about like I had on Katie Wilson from, from Bali Welly and what they've done on TikTok and then of course, you know, Midday Squares and it's just, it, it's incredible. It's incredible.
- [54:11]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah. At the end of the day, people want to be told stories they don't want to be sold to. And that landed with me about year two, year three and that's when I really started doubling down on our social media strategy and it's only been beneficial to us. Where retailers would reach out to us or when they do their diligence on brands, they look at your social media, they look to see how do you drive consumers to their stores. And so that becomes such a big part of the strategy is how do you support your retailers, how do you build the community, how do you stand out and having a strong social media presence, being able to storytell, being able to connect with your consumers, that ultimately is what sets you apart. That's your ip, that's your brand, right. If you want to get an acquisition down the road, you have to be able to sell the brand. Right. And so I think it's no longer an option. I think it's table stakes to build a social media following and to build a strong social, social ecosystem.
- [55:12]
Interviewer
How do you think about founder? I mean I think the examples that we're talking about, in many ways it's, well, mostly it's, it's also founder led brand, right. Where the founders are the one doing the posting, that you're actually getting to know the founders and, and, and behind the scenes through the, through the lens of the founder and what they're thinking. How do you, do you think, do you think predominantly that's, that's kind of the route to success for today?
- [55:39]
Michelle Rossabi
I think it's the faster, cheaper route. I'm not saying that you can't build a great best in class brand by not being in front of your company, by not being on social, by not being in front of the camera. You absolutely can't. There's some great brands that don't do that, but I think it's faster, I think it's more cost efficient than running a ton of ads and look like maybe you can bring in someone else to be the face of your brand, but I think people need to connect to a human. Nowadays when you go to a website I don't know about you, but I always go to the our story or about us page because I want to be like who is this and who's running this behind the scenes? And especially now in this world of AI we're so skeptical of, is this even real that people are craving humans more and more like to, to validate. Like is there someone actually here? Right? Or is this because you can build, you can vibe code so many things now. You can build a whole website with AI. You can build, build Personas with AI and it's, it's kind of crazy when you think about it. So I think in this day and age that we're shifting to having that real authentic credibility is, is also going to help you build your brand in this next era that we're going into.
- [56:52]
Interviewer
Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, but. Well on the AI front, how do you leverage AI or use AI? I'd imagine you're not using it for, for, for videos per se. But the, but, but how do you think about AI in terms of utilizing it and kind of leveraging it to make, you know, your life easier?
- [57:10]
Michelle Rossabi
I just posted about some about this and it went viral about how I broke up with Chat GPT and I went to Claude instead. And I'm obsessed with Claude. I am very impressed with its cowork feature. I'm very impressed with just it's, it's an analytical properties I put in, you know, sales spreadsheets to look at patterns and help me understand our sales velocities. I have it double check, you know, a pitch deck and kind of test against like what my assumptions are about certain things. I have it be kind of my thought partner or sounding board of like hey, here's a strategy. I have it help me think through like hiring. I've had it create a full blown, you know, onboarding 30, 60, 90 plan. I've had it almost replace certain functions that would take me so long. I use it as a research partner. If I'm thinking through different ingredients or, or product formulas or innovation. I like to pressure test certain things. I use it just to do like basic research on things but also from, from a like kind of like this chief of staff almost to kind of be this person and you can create a project within Claude. And I uploaded essentially my founder brain. It's like my founder operating system and I put here my brain guidelines. Here's the retailers that we're in. Here's like how I think about the brand here, here's X, Y, Z so that it has all this Context already about me. And I'm not just chatting generally, but it could really go deep with me and have so much context around me. So I absolutely love it. It helps me with content ideas. If I want to think through like a whole content strategy and a calendar of, of how I want to plan like a Whole Foods launch post, I'm like, what are the different ways that I can plan this if I want to plan an event? I'm like, what are the different things that I should be thinking about when I'm launching an event to launch xyz. So it's become such a game changer. And I always joke about, man, think about how much more powerful we would have been if we had cloud, an AI, you know, even three years ago. So it's completely changed the landscape. It's allowed me to respond faster to emails, not spend an hour editing things and just be me, but a more efficient me.
- [59:16]
Interviewer
Got it? Yeah. No, for sure, for sure, for sure. I actually also agree with you on Claude. I think that it's, I think that it's amazing. And yeah, I don't really use GPT as much.
- [59:28]
Michelle Rossabi
What do you use Claude for?
- [59:32]
Interviewer
It's a good question. I haven't used it nearly as level that you've used it. I've talked to though, another founder and he manages like his entire business through Claude essentially. And it's a CPG company. So I thought that was, that was when I was in Austin like two months ago. I had that conversation. So they started just kind of fiddling around with Quad and working on building on building on a couple things on like the VC side of things like just data like who's fundraise what kind of. Or kind of doing some organization around that. But, but yeah, I mean it's all just so, so amazing the technology that that's available today.
- [60:14]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, no, it's. It's great at processing spreadsheets. So for instance, when you get like data from let's say a week of sales at agb and then I want to translate that into a strategy to send to my merchandising team of like, hey, here are the stores that have voids, here are the stores that have had low performance in this labor and then it can translate over a strategy that I can share with them. So it takes out an hour or two for me to go through spreadsheets and pin pull out different data and patterns and trends and it just synthesizes that for me in minutes.
- [61:40]
Interviewer
No, that, yeah, no, it's, that's. I, I think that was, that was very similar to what the other, this other entrepreneur was saying about how he, how he looks through a lot of his sales data through Claude. And it's been deep insights that, that he's been able to find even on the projection side and, and, and on the modeling side. It's been really, really helpful.
- [62:00]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, it, it can almost like delay having to make these hires. So it keeps your opex down. So from a profitability standpoint, I think it's killer to think about your business like that.
- [62:13]
Interviewer
Yeah, no, totally. I, there is. Yeah, I'm right, I'm right now, I'm right now chatting with another company who I think only has like free full time employees and the amount of revenue that they've been able to do just, and everything else is kind of just by just using AI to fill, to fill the responsibilities. And it's incredible how they've been able to grow. So it really is amazing just what you can do with, with technology on the upside.
- [62:38]
Michelle Rossabi
Yeah, for sure.
- [62:41]
Interviewer
What is, what's one book that's, what's one book that, that's inspired you personally and one book that's inspired you professionally?
- [62:49]
Michelle Rossabi
I love this question. A book that has inspired me personally is the Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins. And if you're familiar with Mel Robbins, she's just such an inspiring person. Yeah, herself. Just her story of how she, you know, went through bankruptcy, so much debt, and then she turned her whole life around at a later age too, which I think is inspiring because so much in our narrative and zeitgeist, he's like 30, under 30, building as an entrepreneur in your 20s. And you know, I'm in my 30s and I find it really inspiring that people can reinvent themselves and start over in their 40s, 50s and beyond. And, and that it's never too late. But specifically about the Let Them Theory. As a founder, you go through so much rejection. You go through so many people doubting you and sometimes people patronizing you, sometimes people, you know, speaking condescending to you and people that will put you down or not understand what you're doing. It could even be family members that mean well, but they might discourage you from starting a business because they view it as unsafe or unstable. And I think the Let Them Theory is such a great concept to easily not attach emotion or, or a connection to people saying anything or doing anything and to let them think the way they think or do whatever they want to do and control your own world. I think it's so important as an entrepreneur to Think about and preserve and protect your mental structure and to make sure that you are in your conviction about what you're building. And so the let them theory is all about like let them say or do whatever and let me focus on me and what I can control and what I do want to do. And so I think that's such a great value and kind of a way to kind of orient your life just to kind of protect yourself against, you know, naysayers or, or just yeah, the very expected experience of, of rejection is going to happen. And then a professional book that has inspired me is by Bobby Brown's book Just Bobby. It's like her memoir about how she built this billion dollar brand, exited to Estee Lauder and all the while she raised four kids which is insane. And life didn't stop for wow. And it's so hard to put all of your life into your business and to not take vacations and to not enjoy yourself and just to grind and grind and grind for a maybe later payout. And her book inspired me professionally to try to seek joy and, and enjoy myself and enjoy the journey and that life can still happen while I'm building a business. And also her crazy story about how she had a 25 year non compete and she thought oh I'm not going to start my company, start a new company in my 60s and then she ends up doing it right. So just her story on resilience and pivoting and the fact that she has worked with like some of the most famous celebrities, politicians, people that are just iconic and she has so much humility around her and she actually posted about our product. She discovered us at a lifetime fitness gym and she posted our products and I posted it on my stories and I'm like oh my God, I love Bobbi. She's iconic. And I had so many people DM me saying Bobby is like the sweetest person. She's so nice, she's so humble. He made me feel so seen. And the fact that this woman who had a billion dollar exit who has worked with celebrities, who built such an amazing brand is so nice and so kind that so many people have had similar like experiences of her being just such a humble person. That inspired me professionally too of you can be this big person but still make sure that everyone feels seen from you know, an associate to a model to whatever, like every person that you work with, interact with can we're all equal, right? It doesn't matter if you have a billion dollar exit. So. So that inspired me as a leader of how to think and be around other people and that, yeah, things can always change, but it's really how you respond to it. And, and her story of resilience is just, it's very inspiring.
- [67:02]
Interviewer
That's amazing. I'm so happy you share these two books. I don't think we've had anyone in the past share these two books. I definitely need to read them. I, I really enjoy listening to Mel Robbins podcast and yeah, Bobby as well. I mean, she's so inspiring. Really excited to add it to the list. Michelle, this is. Well, has there ever. Was there. Speaking of the let them theory, was there ever a period during, during a lobby that the noise maybe got to you too hard that you thought, hey, you know what? Or just the, just the strain of being an entrepreneur overall doesn't mean you can be outside noise. Was there ever a moment that you felt, you know what? I actually, I'm actually going to walk away.
- [67:53]
Michelle Rossabi
I've had some close calls where, where I was sacrificing my health. And this is from someone who health is such a strong pillar for.
- [68:00]
Interviewer
Yes, exactly. And that's, and that's the reason why you started the company to begin with.
- [68:04]
Michelle Rossabi
Right? Right. So just like, this was like such a contradiction that it's like I'm not eating well, I'm not working out, I'm not moving my body and not getting enough sleep. And here I am trying to sell this product and help people eat healthier and I'm not living, you know, the brand that I'm, that I'm air quote selling. So, yeah, I've had a lot of close calls. It was during, like, fundraising cycles where, you know, it just, it takes so much out of you because you have to show up online, be the face of the brand, but then also you, you know, take a hit behind the scenes and something might be happening with production and you have to put out fires. Then you jump on a call and pitch to an investor and then they call your child ugly and, and you just rinse and repeat over and over again. And you, and you don't have, you know, that, that ability to kind of ground yourself because it just feels like you're in. Pulled in a million different directions. I think some great advice that my, my, my partner, my boyfriend told me is like, he's like, okay, like, just go through the scenario, like, what would happen if you quit? And it kind of like forced me to pause for a second and I was just like, oh, what would happen? And, and then I would go through the exercise of it of like, him kind of like calling me out of like, okay, like, go ahead and quit. Like, what would happen and where I got myself. I'm like, I would miss it. I would, I would want to come back in. I would want to, like, as, like, as difficult and as painful as some of the experiences are part of being an entrepreneur. I love it. I love being able to call the shots. I love being able to move things quickly. I love, you know, the thrill of building and I love, you know, how every day is different and that I grow more and more as a person and that I've evolved so much and that I can help people and create a product that actually helps people with their health journey. And so that, that reframe was so super helpful because I'm just like, at the end of the day, this is what I love. I chose this. I'm excited to do this. This is really fulfilling for me. And so that helped me kind of snap out of it. I'm like, I'm just exhausted. I just need to sleep. I. I just need to eat. Like, I just need to fit my basic needs. And once I do that, then that means, okay, I just needed to, like, take a breather. I really don't feel that way. Is the kind of take home message is like, that wasn't actually how I was feeling. I was just exhausted and burnt out. And my advice to founders to get ahead of that is, which is crazy to say, and probably no one has given this advice, is to find opportunities to push yourself beyond your limits. Usually that'll be working out. So maybe it's like sprinting or weightlifting or doing hot yoga. Can you train your brain to get to areas where you feel like you're gonna give up, but then you push through and then you make it on the other side? Because from a neuroscience perspective, when you're thinking about neuroplasticity, founders, entrepreneurs are literally going against evolutionary biology, right? We're going against what's safe, what's certain, what's secure, in pursuit of something dangerous, scary, unknown. And so to practice and continually rewire your brain to optimize for uncertainty unknown, for pushing past limits, the more experiences you have showing your brain, I can do that and I can overcome it, and I survive on the other side. And the stronger your mental resilience will be to get ahead of burnout. Because really, burnout is where you feel overwhelmed, where you feel like you can't keep going, where you want to just give up, right? And so if you can practice in other moments outside of building your business, whether it's working out or pushing yourself physically, that's where you can rewire your brain and prove to yourself on a. On a psychological level, I can push past hard things, I can do hard things. And you take that with you into your. Into your entrepreneur life so that you already know I can do hard things. And so that's some advice that I would give that has really helped me.
- [71:52]
Interviewer
I love that advice. And, yes, I don't think I've actually heard that advice for before. And that was awesome. That was great. Wow, that's so, so cool. And also, I love that advice from your. Her boyfriend as well, saying, what if you like, okay, just put yourself in that shoes. What if you actually were not. What if I actually did step away and actually seen what the business would be like without you? Which is crazy to think about. Yeah. Michelle, this has been so much fun. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
- [72:27]
Michelle Rossabi
Thank you so much for having me. This is great.
- [72:29]
Interviewer
Thank you.