Contemplative Parenting with Aizaiah G. Yong and Nereyda Yong

Summary

Contemplify Podcast Summary

Episode: Contemplative Parenting with Aizaiah G. Yong and Nereyda Yong
Host: Paul Swanson
Guests: Rev. Dr. Isaiah G. Yong & Rev. Nereyda (Nettie) Yong
Date: September 20, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Contemplify explores the intersections of contemplative spirituality and parenting with guests Rev. Dr. Isaiah G. Yong and Rev. Nereyda (Nettie) Yong. As authors of Sacred Parenthood: Spiritual Practices for the Highs and Lows of Parenting, they share insights on how raising children can be a sacred, spiritually formative vocation, particularly in multicultural families. The conversation delves into the guests’ personal backgrounds, their approach to contemplative parenting, key themes from their book, and practical applications, including nighttime rituals and co-authoring as a couple.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Contemplative” (03:07–07:09)

Isaiah’s Take:

• Did not grow up with the term, but encountered it during doctoral studies:

  “The contemplative life is really about a certain intentionality in relationship to the whole world that we might live from and for what matters most.” (04:08, Isaiah)

• Identifies as a “contempla-costal Christian,” merging contemplative and Pentecostal traditions—integrating inward depth with ecstatic experience.

Nettie’s Take:

• Contemplation is profoundly embodied:

  “It was like a breath of fresh air to know that within my very body I could tune in and hear God and feel God and trust God was with me in the mundane of the day to day life.” (06:00, Nettie)

• The contemplative path is a strong foundation, especially for caregiving mothers navigating chaos and constant change.

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2. Spiritual Formation Influences (07:09–14:22)

Nettie:

• Bible is core: formative in Mexican American, communal, immigrant family context.
• Early adulthood: Influenced by Christian mystics/contemplatives (Cynthia Bourgeault, Barbara Holmes, James Finley, Richard Rohr).

  “God whispered to me, do not put me in a box.” (09:35, Nettie)

• Also cites Transforming by Austin Hartkey for co-creating with God from marginalized perspectives.

Isaiah:

• Experience-based formation:
  1. Raimon Panikkar’s cosmotheandric vision—unity of cosmic, divine, and human.
  2. Bishop Yvette Flunder’s radically inclusive spirituality (Where the Edge Gathers).
  3. Jim Finley’s teachings during Isaiah’s recovery from a near-death experience:

  “To have someone who had walked through some of those pieces ... I could feel like I wasn’t alone.” (13:40, Isaiah)

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3. The Genesis & Intention of Sacred Parenthood (16:17–22:12)

• Book arises from lived experience in an intercultural family; informed by backgrounds (Isaiah: Chinese Malaysian + Mexican American; Nettie: Mexican American extended family).
• Purposefully bridges contemplative Christianity and communities of the global majority—addressing gaps in typical, monocultural contemplative literature.

  “Love is what really opens us up to ... working in new ways with each other, but also with our children.” (17:18, Isaiah)

• Writing was itself a contemplative spiritual practice for the couple.

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4. Communal and Nondual Aspects of Parenting (19:37–22:12)

• Contemplative practices foster awareness of interconnection within family, countering the myth of individualism.
• Parenting under crisis (e.g., COVID-19) forced deeper reflection on the communal aspects of caregiving and its societal implications:

  “There is both an individual and communal aspect to that reality. And contemplative practices helped open me up to a non-dual perspective where we can see the both/and.” (20:42, Nettie)

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5. The SACRED Acronym: A Framework for Contemplative Parenting (24:20–29:26)

S – Settle:

• Practice stillness, pause, settle into presence and body.

A – Acknowledge:

• Notice thoughts, emotions, sensations—without judgment.

C – Curiosity:

• Rooted in compassion; curiosity toward needs of self and others.

R – Restore:

• Discern ways to repair ruptures in relationship, making things right.

E – Enjoy:

• Savor and appreciate beauty and goodness, even amid difficulty.

D – Dance:

• Co-create with spirit, ushering in new possibilities in family life.

“Sacred became an acronym for how we can do different kinds of contemplative practices ... Each letter has a guided practice and in the book that you can do on your own or with others.” (27:17, Nettie)
“Each of the letters ... could be kind of micro contemplative practices ... It’s not meant to be a linear process.” (28:10, Isaiah)

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6. Practical Applications: Nighttime Rituals (31:05–37:46)

• Bedtime as thin, sacred space: full presence, adaptability, and non-coercive routines encourage children’s sharing and spiritual intimacy.
• Acknowledges children’s need to process feelings at bedtime; presence and gentle questioning override rigid scripts.

  “We see those as beautiful opportunities again to be completely present and help them deepen their wonder of God ... It’s more like, we’re here with you with these questions.” (32:55, Nettie)

• Practices include affirmations, prayers (including a sung Spanish prayer from Nettie’s childhood), and rituals that become anchors.

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7. On Writing Sacred Parenthood as a Couple (38:41–42:43)

Isaiah:

• Gained deeper appreciation for Nettie’s intention, ability to reflect, and self-care in parenting.
• Writing together prompted rich dialogues and mutual growth.

  “It became a great reason to talk about that and a great way to discern how ... she’s approaching it, how I can support her in her own journey.” (39:31, Isaiah)

Nettie:

• Learned from Isaiah’s writing flow and compassion.
• Co-writing expanded her own voice and revealed Isaiah’s ability to hold space during difficult topics.

  “These conversations are not easy ... And this writing process brought up hard times and gave me a chance to see Isaiah’s ability to extend care and compassion to me, which then helps me be more able to extend care and compassion back to him.” (41:43, Nettie)

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8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I identify as a contempla-costal Christian … to live an empowered life.” (04:48, Isaiah)
• “Contemplative experience ... it’s being held in just the peace of God because life is chaotic.” (06:39, Nettie)
• “Do not put me in a box.” (09:35, Nettie’s spiritual insight)
• On parenthood: “That’s like a real intense path of transformation.” (28:36, Isaiah)
• “Nighttime rituals are profound … how our children feel as they fall asleep at night.” (31:11, Nettie)
• “Our rest can be a support for the world, too.” (35:34, Isaiah)
• “A good smoothie would do that ... nourishing, they're renewing ... it feels like a good smoothie would do that [for a drink pairing].” (43:31, Isaiah)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Defining Contemplative: 03:07–07:09
• Formative Influences: 08:10–14:22
• Book Origin & Intention: 16:17–22:12
• The SACRED Framework: 24:20–29:26
• Bedtime Rituals: 31:05–37:46
• On Co-authoring: 38:41–42:43

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is heartfelt, grounded, and inclusive, with both guests modeling authenticity, humility, and deep attentiveness to both inner movements and lived family dynamics. The episode offers an accessible entry into contemplative parenting, highlighting multicultural realities and the vital role of communal spiritual practice in daily family life. The SACRED acronym provides a memorable, practical structure for listeners seeking to integrate contemplation and connection into their homes.

Recommended for: Contemplatives, parents/caregivers, educators, and anyone interested in spiritual growth through everyday relationships.

Transcript

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Foreign.

[Paul Swanson]

Welcome to Contemplify, where we seek to kindle the examined life for contemplatives in the world. I'm your host, Paul Swanson. Today I welcome Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong and Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong, authors, speakers, and incarnational advocates for contemplative parenting. In our conversation, we talk about their book Sacred Profound Exploration of how we can approach raising children as a spiritual practice and a sacred calling. Isaiah is the Executive Director at Collegeville Institute for Ecumenical and cultural research at St. John's Abbey and University.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Rev.

[Paul Swanson]

Nareda also goes by Nettie. Nettie is the director of the Radically Inclusive Parenting Project. Isaiah and Nettie bring a beautiful blend of contemplative insight and practicality that I think will transform the way you think about the ragged and holy work of raising children. As always, you can visit contemplified.com for the show notes on this episode and learn more about Nettie's work at inclusiveparents.org and Isaiah's work at collegevilleinstitute.org now join me in raising a glass to my guests today. Isaiah and Nettie Young.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's a thrill to see you both on screen. I think the last time I saw you on screen was a couple years ago. Does that sound right? It was before your youngest was born.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

It was definitely a few years ago, before I think the third one. Maybe it was like pre pandemic or post pandemic. So yeah, okay, that's what I want to say. So but it's multiple years.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes. Yes. And so I was just thrilled beyond belief when your book came out. Sacred Parenthood, Spiritual Practices for the Highs and Lows of Parenting as a way to begin. Where am I finding you all today? What's the context and location of your bodies today?

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

We are located in St. Cloud, Minnesota and we moved with our four young children about four months ago from Southern California. And this is where we are now. We're getting used to the land, the animals, the climate, and we're thankful that it's been a good move so far.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was beautiful. As we were talking about beforehand, that's my where I was born and raised and still have family there. So Minnesota has a very special place in my heart and I love the lakes and trees and I hope it's a welcoming, joyful new landscape and people to connect with.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Yes, yes, it has been. With the deer in the backyard.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh nice.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Love that.

[Interviewer/Host]

I bet. That's great. One thing I always love to begin with, the context of this podcast focused on kindling the Examined life for contemplatives in the world. When you both hear that word contemplative, how does that moniker, that name relate to you and your way of being or not? Does that connect for you all? Isaiah. Let's start with you this time. And then Nettie after Isaiah.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah, so definitely resonates. Wasn't something. A word that I heard a lot growing up in my own background. I was raised as Pentecostal Christian, and so we didn't talk a whole lot about the word contemplative, but something I got introduced to in my doctoral studies at the Claremont School of Theology to really learn about the contemplative tradition and the contemplative traditions across different religious orientations, which was really meaningful to me to hear these stories, hear these practices, hear these teachings that we've been passed down to help people. The way I like to think about it and I relate to it is to live for what matters most and to live from what matters most and what's most essential to us. And so the contemplative life is really about a certain intentionality in relationship to the whole world that we might live from and for what matters most. So that's kind of how I relate to it. And then now I identify as a contempla costal Christian, which is to bring together both this sense of the contemplative as well as this Pentecostal upbringing that I inherited on, which really emphasizes kind of a direct experience of the divine, which. Which goes well with the contemplative word too. But it has its own in the Pentecostal circles ways. And so I like to bring those together to live an empowered life as a contempla.

[Interviewer/Host]

Castle, I love that I've never heard that term before, and I think that that merging to not negate the traditions that birthed us and to honor the beauty and the grandiosity of like. So I often think of Pentecostals as, like, the ecstatic side of Christianity and like to have that with the interior that often gets lumped in with contemplative, bringing forth the best of both worlds in you. So that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Nettie, how about you? What comes up for you with contemplative?

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

The first thing that comes up for me is embodied experience. And that was a big shift for me when I learned more about the contemplative tradition within Christianity. This was about five years ago. I started to become more aware of how I could truly be present to my body and experience God's Love God's presence, God's, God's compassion in the here and now. And that was important for me as a mother of very young children. That season of life where there is so much physical work that needs to be done and there are many demands that need to be met. And it was easy to feel alone and exhausted and to feel like God was far away. When I'm tending to young infants and toddlers and learning about the contemplative practices within Christianity, that was my starting place. And it was like a breath of fresh air to know that within my very body I could tune in and hear God and feel God and trust God was with me in the mundane of the day to day life. And so that's what comes up for me when I first hear the word contemplative. And there's a lot of peace that I feel that holds that experience, a contemplative experience. It's like it's being held in just the peace of God because life is chaotic and there are many changes that happen in our world, in our, in our homes, with our kids. And so the contemplative path is a strong foundation for me, particularly as a mom with young kids.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's beautiful. I think, I know I've said this before on this show, but one of Tessa Balecki, one of my teachers, one of the things I love about, she has this phrase about how contemplatives are not unique, but everyone is a unique type of contemplative. And I just think that's so true. We tend so often in contemplative, in the popular contemplative tradition or traditions tends to get lumped into like a certain way of being a contemplative. And it's actually like this big open tent of what it means to exercise that. And I so appreciate the unique way that you each bring your own contemplative spirit and embodiment to this work. Thinking about how you all were formed, I'm going to ask this of each of you. This time we'll start with Nettie. Nettie, if someone were going to teach a class on your formation, on the formation of Nettie Yang, what would be the three mandatory readings or works that formed you that would definitely be on that syllabus?

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Great question. Well, the first book that comes to mind is the Bible. Because I grew up in a Mexican American immigrant family, a very highly communal family culture, and because the gospel of Christianity was introduced to my grandparents, one of my great grandparents was a one that became a Christian in the Protestant movement. But all that to say as a child, literally the only book that was really out on the bookshelf was the Bible and multiple versions of the Bible. And so it was Bible stories that were read to me as a young person that helped me learn about the nature of God and who God is. And as I became a young adult learning more about the realities of the world, I started to lean into the Christian mystics and the Christian contemplatives such as Cynthia Bourgeau, Barbara Holmes, James Finley, Richard Rohr. And those were the teachers that I started to learn from as a, a new parent, as a younger adult and helping me experience and learn deeper ways of knowing God and not limiting God to one perspective. I literally had an experience where I was sitting in stillness and I saw a box in my imagination. And as I visualized this box, the box completely shattered. It was like there was some kind of explosion within the box and the box shattered into millions of pieces. And God whispered to me, do not put me in a box. And it was those kinds of resources and teachers that helped me in my formation, in my early adulthood. And when I think of you asked for three books.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know it's, it's so limiting, it's so. But take it all with a grain of salt, whatever arises. If it's more than three or less than three, you still pass the final exam.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

I'm thinking about a book called Transforming and it's written by Austin Hartkey and it was one of the early books that helped me learn more about what it means to co create with God and written by a trans person. And that one was pretty formative for me as I started to discover more about what it meant to be a believer and what it meant to partner with Christ for healing in the world and oh my goodness, I feel like this is a, you know, a requirement for a test. I'm trying to pinpoint my final book for you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I know it would change tomorrow if I asked you. Tomorrow I look at the books on the shelves behind both of you and I obviously avid readers, so oh my.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Goodness, you know what? I feel like I can't think of a third book right now. I might just pass it to Isaiah.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Cool.

[Interviewer/Host]

Perfect.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah. I like to think of lived experiences that I feel like I've been really deeply impacted by and I've been invited into. So one of the most notable for me, Raymon Panachar was an inter religious teacher, philosopher, theologian, but he talked about the cosmotheandric experience and bringing a sense of unity and harmony with all of reality and how the cosmic dimension, the sacred divine dimension, the human dimension are all important dimensions to every being, to all of reality and how to experience that. And so that was really transformative, not just because of. I got to go to. Not just because of the kind of poetic nature of it, but I actually got to go to the place where he meditated and wrote a lot of his life teachings in the Costa Brava area in Spain, and really felt a deep connection to his experience through that, even though I never was alive to meet him while he was alive in that way. And so he's definitely been a really important voice. The second voice I'm going to lift up is Bishop Yvette Flunder, who's my pastor, our pastor, and we're, we're members of City of Refuge United Church of Christ. She has a book called where the Edge Gathers. But her experience of being a same gender loving African American woman minister, as she describes herself, to really be about a radically inclusive message that is open to, as she puts it, all traditions that harmonize with the path of Jesus. And so she's just a beautiful soul, an amazing singer, an incredible encourager and leader, and just an amazingly courageous voice, I think, for spirituality in the United States, but also globally. And I'm really glad to know her of all of her encouragement in our personal lives. And then the last one I'll lift up is someone that we share in common, Paul Jim Finley. I listened to a lot of his teachings on repeat with the Sanctuary album for Alana Levandowski when I survived a near death experience in 2018. And so his Healing Path album with her was really a grace for me to listen to on repeat. I remember people coming in like, are you really listening to that again on repeat? But it was just a real time of intense suffering and to have someone who I knew, not that I knew at that time, but someone who I, I knew of who had walked through some of those pieces. I could feel like I wasn't alone. I could feel like there was a way to be with my experience that was loving and transformative and so getting to kind of experience that. The audio there was really impactful for, for my, my life and continues to be so I love his work and who he is.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow, it's really beautiful to hear both of you. What came up for you? I would be remiss if I didn't also mention that Bishop Yvette Flunder wrote the foreword to your book and it's a beautiful tee up to the journey you take readers through. So thank you both for sharing that list. I'm sure it'll intrigue a lot of those listening now as ways to kind of look into how you were formed in this. These pathways. Well, I'm excited to talk about Sacred Parenthood, and I really struggle with parenting books. I know a lot of parents do. I've put down way more than I finished. And this was a book that I enjoyed from page one to the end because I just found it's relatable, helpful. New ideas on new horizons that are not my experience, but, like, were so instructive and so healing in that parental collaborative way that I often just don't get from what I kind of consider, like, preachy kind of parenting books. This just felt like I was in the circle with you both. And you name at the outset that. That Sacred Parenthood is not only a contemplative book, but also supportive in intercultural families and partnerships, something that has been absent for much of the modern contemplative movement. And so I thought that also struck a beautiful chord, at least here in the States. I should say that that's been absent from a lot of the contemplative movement in the States. Would you say that drawing from this meeting place of the contemplative Christian traditions and communities of the global majority birthed this book? Does it feel like those two streams, multiple streams, came together to form this book? Does that resonate with you about at least the origin story of where this book came from? How would you respond to that?

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that that really resonates the way you just described it. And I feel like for us, I'll say from my own background, actually I'll speak very personally for a moment, is to say that my parents, Chinese Malaysian father, Mexican American mother, they were the first people in their families to marry somebody outside of their own cultural group. And so they had to really learn firsthand what it would look like to actually come together, to be in a partnership, to make their own way forward in terms of that was going to honor both of the wisdom they brought and also be open to something different. And so I kind of witnessed their own joys and struggles with that as a child. And now being in an interracial partnership with my partner, you know, is something that. That I wanted to really speak about, to say how love is what really opens us up to experiencing and to working in new ways with each other, but also with our children. And so to really be in this together and to learn from that and to also say That a lot of theologies that we were taught, that I was taught tended to be very monocultural. And so you kind of were past your experience, and that worked for the people that you learned it from, and that was great. But then when it comes to actually now being in partnerships with people who don't come from those kinds of communities, which is that intercultural piece, how do you do that? And for me, I think. And I think the book attests to this, a contemplative way of being has the potential to help with that. And so that kind of orientation can now open you up and less rigid, more curious, compassionate to some of the edges of that experience. And so I think there's more and more people who are finding themselves in partnerships and in communities that are diverse. And so if the contemplative life can really be a resource there to examine bias, to examine inherited patterns of internalized oppression and maybe other pieces, then maybe there's a way that we can actually heal some of these new ways that the historical wounds, perhaps, or the ones we experience, they might be coming up. And so the contemplative life can help do that. And what more place does that happen than in a. In a partnership and in a household with. With young children? I mean, all those dynamics are now really real. They're not abstractions, and you're having to work through, okay, my child is testing a boundary. I'm feeling low on energy. I'm feeling like I want to fix this situation in a particular way. And so now how do we actually attend to that honestly, and be in a dialogue with our partner about what's happening? And I think that's some of the place I think we were coming from when we were wanting to write this. And the last piece, I'll say is just that the spiritual. The writing piece of it is a spiritual practice for us, which is to say that, like, actually being. Sharing the stories, reflecting on it was part of, like, how we had the conversation. So when we were writing this together, it was like, what did we do there? How did we actually navigate that? Where did we actually mess up? And getting the chance to write about it together also was a contemplative practice in and of itself to really examine what was happening.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Yeah, that's a good reminder just how writing in and of itself was a way for us to experience contemplative, you know, spiritual practice together. And I think about how growing up as a Mexican American child in a very large extended family circle, life was highly communal. And I'm thinking how Isaiah brought up our contemplative posture and practices can help open us up to recognize that we are interconnected with one another. This idea that high an individual should pursue individual success and individual progress is not real. It's not true that that's how we live our best life and most fulfilled life is on our own. And like he also mentioned, when you are with a. A partner in your home, another parent, when you're with your child or multiple children, there is both an individual and communal aspect to that reality. And contemplative practices helped open me up to a non dual perspective where we can see the both and. And being able to tune in with what's happening within ourselves and attune to what's happening within the other person. That is a spirituality that opens us up to be receptive, opens us up to be patient and to learn and to gain understanding rather than assume we know the answers and impose it on the other person. And all of this ties into what we were learning as parents, especially when the COVID 19 pandemic hit and we were sheltering in place. That was really that crisis moment where many of us started asking questions, what do we do? How do we get through this? How are we going to navigate parenthood with work? School is now at home. There were a lot of questions and it was very intense to live in a time with so much uncertainty and fear and pressure. And it really invited us to go deeper within ourselves. And it was a starting place for us to reflect on how is parenting connected to how we get through a collective crisis? And how is parenting impacting the way we heal and transform structural oppression in our society?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I think I can just feel the edge, just like the heat of it and how alive in your writing because you could, you could tell as a reader like what you all were bringing up to each other or unpacking or looking. Looking through a particular instance, as you said. Like it was, it was concrete and it was in your own family. But you're also not dismissing the structural oppression that also is a backdrop, is a lived reality. And then there's the context of your nuclear family and the extended family living within that. And you can feel the just again, I keep using that word, but like the aliveness of like this is so tangible, it's so textured, it's so concrete because this is the day to day of it. And it helped me think back as a reader through my own interpretations of contemplative practice and my own lineages. Just like how are these forming? How I show up as a parent, my Scandinavian American heritage, as you will, if you haven't already, these stoic. Some sometimes stoic Minnesotans who just go quiet. And how do. How do I bring that into my parenting? How does it. How do I actually transform that so I can show up in a different way? And I just think you all do that in spades in the context of this book, that you live this transformation. You're not just, as you guys say in the book, not just thinking it. You're all these things arise out of concrete examples. And I would love to ask you all, because this book is structured around the acronym sacred. And to give readers, I feel like that's the best way to give folks a sense of, like, what's the backbone of your book? And how do you move through this? What does sacred mean? What does sacred as an acronym mean in your book? Would you be open to just taking, kind of walking through, one by one, what each one is, and then we can kind of al. See what comes up for each one. Let's start with S. What does the S of sacred mean in your acronym?

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Yeah, so in our writing process, we. The word sacred was really coming up for us as a theme, you know, as a foundation for this book. And the S in sacred stands for settle. And settle was a way to explain the practice of stillness and pausing, whether it's for a short time or whether it's for a longer time. Settling into the present moment, settling into our bodies. That's what the S stands for. Settle. And then the A stands for acknowledge. Acknowledging. What are you noticing in your lived reality? What are you noticing in this very moment and noticing thoughts, emotions, or bodily sensations. So you're acknowledging without judgment what is happening. The C stands for curiosity. Curiosity is rooted in compassion. Being open and curious on how you can tend to what the needs are. So what are the needs you're noticing within yourself or the needs you're noticing with your child or another person around you in your home? So the C's for curiosity. How to practice being curious with a heart of wanting, to care and extend compassion. The R stands for restore. Restore is how we can discern, with the Holy Spirit's guidance or with God's guidance, how to make right what was ruptured or how to make right what was broken. And we can restore or reconcile whatever happened that, again, brought relational rupture. We experience this often as parents with children. We say things or do things that brought harm or hurt, and we didn't intend to usually. And there's always invitations to repair or restore what's been ruptured. Right. And that can happen within yourself as well as with another. The E stands for enjoy. Enjoy is being able to savor. And some of the contemplative teachings teach the power and importance of savoring the moment, savoring the beauty, savoring the gift it is to be alive. And enjoy is how we deepen the practice of savoring the goodness and beauty of our lives in the midst of all the challenges that we face, deepening that experience within ourselves. And D, the last letter in Sacred stands for dance. And dance is symbolic on how we are dancing with the spirit and we are co creating something new. We are co creating new possibilities and realities within ourselves, with our children, with our families and communities. How do we dance and see the new thing that God is always bringing forth and join in with that. And so sacred became an acronym for how we can do different kinds of contemplative practices. Each letter has a guided practice and in the book that you can do on your own or with others and begin to connect more deeply to yourself and to God and notice what your invitation might be for that moment.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah, no, I would just add something very brief which is to say that each of the letters that Nettie just read and the different movements within Sacred, they could be kind of micro contemplative practices in themselves. And so we wrote it out in the way that the word is sacred. But it's not meant to be a linear process. It's not meant to be kind of a 1, 2, 3, 4. It's meant to be. Here are some different elements that can help us to be more available to ourselves and to our households in the day to day process. And so here are some elements that have been helpful to us to being available. And with that sense, it's never a clean process. Sometimes these processes happen and you don't even think about them necessarily happening in that way or they're. They don't come together in a way that you'd want to. To share about. And we mentioned that in the book, you know, misses and ways that we stumble into this. But for us it still gave us a sense that wholeness and a fulfilled household is possible even amidst many different kinds of things that come forward. And so how do we be present and available for that? So I think that's the heart of what we mean by sacred. And just setting oneself up to maybe even consider this and to give oneself to this, we thought is a contemplative path of transformation in and of itself. And so a lot of times we talk about monastic vows or we take certain kinds of paths. Maybe a marriage, a partnership of a lifelong transformation. But when we were writing it, we thought, well, parenthood and caregiving, that's like a real intense path of transformation. And so what would it be like to actually be more sensitive to what comes up in that? And these are some of the elements that we. We wanted to lift up.

[Interviewer/Host]

Beautiful. And I thank you, Nettie, for going through the list and Isaiah, for helping us remember that it's not linear necessarily, because I think we're so practicing that too. We start at A and go to. To Z. I have a friend who is a. He's a hardcore discipline when it comes to his contemplative practices. And he's constantly telling me, he's like, I don't know how you guys do it as parents. Like, that's way harder than what I do. Getting up at, you know, this hour to do their. Their prayers and like, all the stuff that they do throughout a day, a week and a year, they're just like, I got it easy compared to parents. And I think part of why I so enjoyed your book is this, like, multiple entry points into how do you bring this contemplative posture, this. This presence and this engagement with yourself, your partner or extended family, and also with. With the kids to help create the conditions for something, for new arisings, for possibility. And I know that because I've read this book and get. I get excited about talking about the ark and the things. I would love to just, in this moment, drop a very practical nugget around the bedtime ritual you all do and how you approach that. Because I was smitten by. There's an elegance to it, but there's also non coercive, non pushiness towards how you create those conditions. So I would love for y' all to share what is your bedtime ritual with your kids? And how do you. What's the posture you bring and invite your kids into with bedtime?

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

We have noticed in our parenting that nighttime rituals are very profound. They can be very profound. How our children feel as they fall asleep at night. And our oldest, who just turned 10, as she's entering the preteen stage, we're noticing at nighttime when she's wanting to lay down and we put her to bed, she wants to just pour out her heart right then and there, you know, and. And we're. We're a little tired at the end of the day. And we're like, we just wanted to give you a kiss good night. But she's starting to share more of what's in her heart. And so all that to say if we can be intentional with a nighttime ritual or a nighttime routine that has some sense of consistency and yet is very open to notice how our children are inviting us to respond. And so we really value a mutual exchange of love and receptivity as parents with our kids. And depending on their age, it really does impact how you engage. For example, our toddler and four and five year olds, when they're at that age. We notice how if we just tell them to brush their teeth and go to bed, it's usually a little battle. They're not likely to say, okay, yes, I will do that. They resist a little bit. And so those are opportunities we've learned to be creative. And what does it look like to bring imagination and play into the nighttime ritual and help them feel like they're creating something new or creating a new experience with us and all that to say, I would say that in our home, nighttime rituals are not always looking the exact same. Every night, it's very much about we show up with the intention to give them our full presence. As we prepare for the nighttime, we want to show up noticing what they're experiencing and showing them that we are with them as they prepare their bodies and their minds to rest for the night. And there's really tender conversations that happen once their head hits the pillow. There's very tender questions that come up, and we see those as beautiful opportunities again to be completely present and help them deepen their wonder of God. So it's not necessary that we have all the answers to these questions at the end of the day. It's more like we're here with you with these questions. We're wondering the same things, and we love you.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

And that's the heart of why nighttime rituals are important and what we kind of do to approach nighttime. And so I can transition here to Isaiah, if he wants to add to that. I wanted to kind of give you more of the heart beneath nighttime rituals and why to us, it's an important part of our day.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah, no, that's really what Nettie said is exactly what we've tried to bring ourselves to, recognizing that, you know, waking up, going to sleep, these are kind of like thin moments in our day where we're kind of like slowly moving from one state to the next. And so how do we kind of accompany the transitions? And so part of what I'VE learned from my kids a lot is they're so honest with us about their fears, about their hopes, about silly stories. And we have young kids, and so being able to reflect back what we're hearing to them, be able to validate and affirm, like Nettie said, these tender pieces, and be able to relate to it, even to say, like, I know what you're talking about in some way. I've experienced some of this in my own sense. And that helps them feel a little bit more connected to. To themselves really, to their own experience and give them a chance to share a little bit more. And then for me, one of the things we try to. I try to introduce is. Is bringing whatever they bring in the day, whatever that moment's holding, and then bringing that to the divine. And so recognizing that they don't have to hold all that just by themselves, but that there's a presence within them and around them that's holding that with them. And so that they can kind of just breathe into that and so that they're acknowledging what's going on, but they're also allowed to be supported, you know, by myself and by God. And so. So usually checking in, okay, after they've done that a few times, how are they feeling? And usually it's a lot more calm and able to kind of rest now, but it's important because don't want to bypass those pieces that are really emerging for them. And so it's a way to kind of, like I say, acknowledge, but also give them away if they'd like to kind of entrust whatever that is to getting support. And so try to do that as many nights as possible. And then when we. If we say a prayer to have a. A good night of rest, we know that rest is a gift that comes from the divine. And so we just. We acknowledge that. And then also that we could rest today so that we can show up in love tomorrow. Not just for our family, but for the world. And so we often think about the world, too, in different ways and things that are going on and how our rest can be a support for the world, too. So we try to weave in some of these pieces as we go. Gentle ways, but just their kids, but just as a way to say we're here with. With a purpose, we're supported, we're in this together. And it's okay that you might be feeling a lot of uncomfortable things, like that's all part of the experience. And so we're not alone in that either.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Yes. Yes. Nighttime is really, again, A prime opportunity for deep connection. Vulnerabilities come to the surface, and we have an opportunity to offer care and just hold our kids with compassion at the end of the day. And we do usually share prayers before they fall asleep. And prayers can look in, like, many different ways. And there is one specific prayer that I learned as a kid, which was in Spanish that I've now passed on. And I share this prayer at night with my kids every night. And I even sing it to them. I made it a tune. And when you have something consistent like that over time, you see your children experience that as a very safe anchor. My daughter will say, aren't you going to sing me the prayer before you leave? And now she'll ask me to sing it if I forget. And so, again, a beautiful time when nighttime rituals in your home to really connect and be like a sacred support for your child.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, that's beautiful. I so appreciate the way you all create the ambiance of how you create those conditions, and then also how you move and bob and weave and flow with whatever's coming up for your kiddo in that moment. And I find that really heartening because it does feel. The relational aliveness of it is so palpable. So thank you so much for sharing that. And I'm so intrigued too as well, by the fact that you, our partners, are in a marriage and that you wrote this book together. Because I love to write, but it's always a very solitary experience. So I would love to ask Isaiah, we'll start with you this time. What did you learn from Nettie while writing this book? And then, Nettie, I'll ask you the same question after Isaiah.

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Yeah, Well, I feel like I've known some of what I'm about to share for a while, but in terms of writing it, it felt like a whole deepening sense of it. But just how much intention Nettie brings to parenting, really everything she does, which is such a gift to see, and it always encourages me to be a little bit more intentional. I tend to be intentional in my own way, but a more kind of maybe forward thinking and things are happening, but she brings it right down. And. And I. I just love that piece of it. Also intentionality around kind of showing up for oneself in the parenting journey, because there's a lot that comes up. And so in writing this book, I was able to find to know different layers of Nettie's experience. What she witnessed as a child, what she hoped to be as a parent, but also where there's challenges in it and so in writing the book, it became a great reason to talk about that and a great way to kind of discern how we can. How she's approaching it, how I can support her in her own journey approaching it. And although we were united in heart for a lot of the writing to get there, there was a process of really hearing, you know, what's important to her, where edges are and that kind of piece. And so in the writing of that, I feel like it was just an amazing gift to get to witness what she's been through and also how she's transforming it through her own parenting. That was very inspiring for me.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's beautiful, Nettie. I know that you were all parents here and were bumping up against a babysitter ending, so I want to be very respectful of that. So maybe just in a very brief way, is there if you could just. What did you learn from Isaiah, even if it's just one thing that you would like to share?

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Yeah. I would say that the process of writing with Isaiah invited us to have many conversations together where we simply sat together, we would dream together on what this book could look like. And there was so much back and forth collaboration in its truest sense. And I have been able to witness that writing is not easy. And some people are really gifted with being able to write, and Isaiah is one of those people. I really admire his gift that I believe God's given him to be a voice to our generation and to be able to articulate powerful insight through words. And I learned a lot about just his ability to flow as a writer. And it really helped me grow in my own way on being able to write out what's in my heart, and so definitely appreciate that. And I will also say that I learned more about Isaiah's ability to hold compassionate space, because these conversations are not easy. And when we talk about contemplative approaches to parenting, it doesn't mean that we always feel peace in our home, and we're always just happy and everything's great. We experience conflict, we experience disagreement, and life is hard. And we are learning how to be able to be okay when things feel hard, when conversations feel hard, we can practice how to be gentle and compassionate to ourselves and others, even when it's incredibly challenging. And this writing process brought up hard times and gave me a chance to see Isaiah's ability to extend care and compassion to me, which then helps me be more able to extend care and compassion back to him. And so life is just full of so many things and going back to what Isaiah said earlier, we can learn how to hold all of life with more trust and care for each other.

[Interviewer/Host]

Beautiful, Nettie. Thank you so much for your time. This is a thrill to be in conversation, get to know you a little bit. I look forward to checking out what's going on with the summit. And, yeah, thanks for being here.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

Thank you so much, Paul. It was really good to meet you, and I hope and trust we can do more things together in the future. And blessings to you and your family.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank you. You, too.

[Reverend Nereida Nettie Yong]

All right, I'll see y' all later.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thanks, Nettie. I always close every conversation with just the question of if you're going to pair our conversation with a drink. And I'm sorry that Nettie can't be here, but I. I know what it's like when a babysitter is. Their time is up. So, Isaiah, if you were going to pair our conversation with a drink, what would be your drink of choice?

[Reverend Dr. Isaiah G. Yong]

Oh, I want to try to answer on behalf of us both, actually, if I can. And I'm thinking of writing Journey, what we just discussed here. I don't know, probably I'm going to go with some kind of smoothie, just because Nettie and I love smoothies. And smoothies are great because they're a mix of a lot of things and they can be done well, and they can also not be done so well, but they're. They give vi when they're done well. They taste really good. They give you vitality, energy. They're nourishing, they're renewing to you. And they're fresh, right? And so you can't have a good smoothie if it ain't fresh. And so I hope that what we talked about is something fresh in the world and something that we. That is alive and vital and nourishing. And it feels like a good smoothie would do that. So I'll leave it open because I don't know what kind of smoothie she would choose, but let's say with a fruit smoothie of choice.

[Interviewer/Host]

I love that. Sounds like a great combination. We have a lot of smoothies in our house, so I'm right there with you. It's got to be fresh to get the. The most out of it. So thank you so much for that.

[Paul Swanson]

Thank you for listening to this episode of Contemplify. May it stir conversation with kindred spirits and strangers alike and provide a nourishing morsel of thought for your week. Slip over to contemplify.com to find the show notes for this episode while you're there. Sign up for the monthly Contemplify Non Required Reading list and the weekly Contemplative practice Lo Fi and Hushed. If you're enjoying context, Contemplify, rate and review it on your podcast player. The president of the Internet slipped me a note just the other day on a napkin that said, this will help spread the contemplative cheer. The theme song of Contemplify is called Langside by Charles Ends and Darren Hoveus. Fellas, grateful as always, and I'm looking forward to bringing you more musings and conversations with contemplatives in the world here.

[Interviewer/Host]

In the near future.

[Paul Swanson]

Until then, be well.