Podcast Summary: Contemplify — Mark Longhurst on The Holy Ordinary

Host: Paul Swanson
Guest: Mark Longhurst (Author, Contemplative Guide)
Date: October 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Contemplify features a deep and engaging conversation between host Paul Swanson and returning guest Mark Longhurst, author of The Holy Ordinary: A Way to God. The dialogue explores how the sacred permeates everyday experience, drawing from Mark’s life as an activist, pastor, father, writer, and art enthusiast. Together, they delve into practical contemplative practices, the role of embodiment, Mark’s influences, and what it really means to discover the “holy ordinary” within the chaos of modern life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mark’s Context and Perspective (00:06–04:06)

• Mark shares his setting in the Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts (01:35).
• Discusses his multi-faceted role as a writer, editor, dad, and spouse.
• Mark's journey as an interviewer and podcaster, exploring spiritual and theological conversations:

  "I love probing questions, playful questions... rich conversations about the spiritual life and theology and how it all comes to bear in our ordinary lives." (03:14)

2. Influences and Spiritual Heroes (04:20–08:34)

• Mark spotlights his recent interview with spiritual hero Matthew Fox (04:20), emphasizing Fox’s book A Radical Response to Life and its blend of reverence and irreverence in exploring prayer.
• Describes Fox as a vibrant elder "brimming with aliveness and energy and curiosity and wonder.” (04:52)

3. Contemplative Practices: The Intersection of Action and Presence (06:03–07:45)

• Paul inquires about Mark's core spiritual discipline.
• Mark highlights the value of old spiritual disciplines alongside the necessity of letting go:

  "I'm a believer in the old spiritual disciplines... and also a believer of letting go when it's needed so we can rediscover the essence of the practices, which is being present to the moment and the presence of love and God." (06:13)

• Describes his "daily sit" meditation combined with physical activity like running or yoga to support full embodiment.

4. Formative Books: The Mark Longhurst Syllabus (08:34–12:00)

• Three key works:
  • The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky: “A passionate novel of the quest for God and the struggle with doubt.” (08:56)
  • Adam’s Return by Richard Rohr: "It was like an arrow to my heart... direct and transformative wisdom.” (09:26)
  • With Head and Heart by Howard Thurman: Thurman bridges “contemplation and action” with courage and inspiration. (11:10)

5. The Holy Ordinary — Finding the Sacred in Everyday Life (12:00–15:46)

• Mark explains his obsession with the intersection of deep spirituality and “chaotic life:”

  "I’ve just been looking for a spirituality that could meet my longing for divine love in the midst of a chaotic life of work and kids and family and marriage.” (12:58)

• Notes how contemplative practice is no longer the preserve of cloistered communities—it’s available to everyone.

6. Surprising Contemplative Figures: Shakers and James Baldwin (15:46–19:18)

• Mark shares his passion for the Shakers as under-appreciated American mystics, influenced by local context and Thomas Merton’s writings. (16:54)
• Discusses James Baldwin:

  "Love is the guiding category of much of his work. Love that transforms you, that does not leave you the same... I experience his incisive perspective on culture, politics and race as a contemplative seeing of sorts, that unveils reality and invites us to live a little more deeply..." (18:22)

7. Book Structure: Contemplation, Connections, Liberations (21:04–22:39)

• Mark lays out the book’s “braided” structure—short reflections interconnecting personal, social, political, and spiritual themes.
• Describes how the sections allow multidimensional exploration of contemplative life, with topics on embodiment, political dimensions, and personal stories.

8. Yoga as a Gateway to Embodied Spirituality (22:39–27:46)

• Mark recounts how yoga provided a transformational embodied practice, leading him back to Christian contemplative traditions:

  “I had never realized that embodiment and emotions are connected, that somehow I can process my emotions through sun salutations, through holding postures.” (24:03)

• Yoga became his lifeline during a period of disconnection from organized religion:

  “I was in the ordination process actually when I was discovering yoga and would often skip church to go to Sunday morning yoga class because church was not doing anything for me." (25:51)

9. Integration and Curiosity: Approaching Faith with Openness (27:46–30:42)

• Mark reflects on his “contemplative laboratory” approach—integrating learnings from diverse traditions and relationships:

  "I kept following that curiosity, and I kept meeting people different from me, and they challenged me, and they were wonderful... Christianity, especially the form of it in which I was raised, was afraid of so many things... I don't really believe God wants us to be afraid of anybody or anything." (29:06)

10. Nature and Mysticism: John Muir and Ordinary Encounters (30:42–34:31)

• Discusses how mystics like John Muir and Hildegard of Bingen influence his spirituality of nature:

  "Nature is always there... For me, it’s an invitation to be conscious and a reminder to be conscious of the natural world and that I'm not alone in the world." (32:36)

• Realizes that “beauty is there, and when I'm listening, it’s a holy moment.” (34:00)

11. Writing as a Contemplative Practice (36:23–39:26)

• Mark discusses how weekly public writing, whether sermons or Substack posts, keeps him honest and engaged:

  “…there was something about that discipline of just doing it every week, whether you thought the material was shit or you were so proud of it. And often my perception of the material did not mirror the audience’s experience.” (36:37)

• Writing as an act of faith: “Living with the imperfection of not feeling like everything needs to be perfect before I put it out.” (37:10)

12. Invitation: Embracing the Holy Ordinary (40:36–42:06)

• Mark offers advice for cultivating the holy in everyday life:

  “…the material is already there, and it's just a process. So how to go deep into what is already there in one's life and not to do more, but to accept what is and come to terms with what is. And that's hard stuff.” (40:55)

• Contemplative invitation means engaging all of life—including imperfection, pain, suffering—as well as joy and community.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the accessibility of contemplation:
  "It's an exciting period of history when... anyone who wants to taste and discover [the contemplative tradition] can." — Mark Longhurst (14:42)

• On the reality of daily practice:
  "Oftentimes they're interrupted... When I get to the end of the day, it's a breathless feeling like I made it." — Mark Longhurst (13:33)

• On writing and imperfection:
  “Living with the imperfection of not feeling like everything needs to be perfect before I put it out.” — Mark Longhurst (37:10)

• On love and transformation (regarding James Baldwin):
  “Love that transforms you, that does not leave you the same.” — Mark Longhurst (18:23)

• On openness and curiosity:
  “I don't really believe God wants us to be afraid of anybody or anything.” — Mark Longhurst (29:34)

Key Timestamps

• 00:06 – Paul welcomes Mark; episode overview.
• 01:35 – Mark’s current life context in the Berkshires.
• 03:05 – Mark’s own pop-up podcast and love for soulful questions.
• 04:20 – Matthew Fox as a spiritual hero; podcasts as excavation.
• 06:03 – Contemplative practices: daily sit & embodiment.
• 08:34 – Mark’s top 3 formative books.
• 12:58 – Discovering the holy in the ordinary; theology of accessibility.
• 16:54 – Shakers and James Baldwin as unexpected contemplatives.
• 21:04 – Structure of The Holy Ordinary.
• 23:03 – Yoga’s transformative role in Mark’s spirituality.
• 30:42 – Encountering nature and its mystical invitation.
• 36:23 – Writing as weekly contemplative practice.
• 40:36 – Advice for listeners: embracing what already is.
• 44:15 – Mark’s drink pairing: “regular old drip coffee... For the awakened spirit amidst chaos or joy.”

Tone & Language

Both Paul and Mark maintain a tone that is warm, grounded, and infused with humility and curiosity. They model a conversational openness that echoes contemplative values—deep listening, humor, gentle self-deprecation, and a playful spirit.

Conclusion

This episode is a rich resource for anyone seeking to discover or deepen a path of contemplative spirituality amid the “holy ordinary” of daily existence. Mark Longhurst’s insights—interlaced with influences from literature, social activism, embodiment, and practical theology—offer a grounded, non-perfectionistic invitation to presence, curiosity, and transformation in everyday life.

Recommended for:

• Contemplatives seeking practical inspiration
• Mystics in the “mud and blood” of regular life
• Readers curious about embodied spiritual practices
• Anyone longing to uncover the sacred in the mundane

Drink Pairing:
“Regular old drip coffee, with a little oat milk... For the awakened spirit right in the midst of whatever chaos and confusion and joy and experience that we're having.” (44:15) — Mark Longhurst