Podcast Summary: [Rebroadcast] Dr. Larry Ward on America's Racial Karma, the Fragrance of Wisdom, and Learning How To Suffer Less

Podcast: Contemplify
Host: Paul Swanson
Guest: Dr. Larry Ward
Release Date: September 13, 2025

Overview

In this heartfelt rebroadcast episode, Paul Swanson honors the late Dr. Larry Ward—a revered Buddhist teacher, author, and co-founder of the Lotus Institute—following his passing in August 2025. The conversation traverses Dr. Ward’s contemplative and teaching journey, the necessity of healing individual and collective trauma surrounding race in America, the fragrance of wisdom as a lived metaphor, and tangible spiritual practices for suffering less. Through stories, direct teaching, and poetry, Dr. Ward offers listeners practical and profound insights for living a wise, compassionate life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Larry Ward's Roots, Context, and Early Influences

• Location and Connection to Nature
  • Dr. Ward shares his current home in Arden, North Carolina, and the daily gifts of ducks, birds, and a heron at a nearby pond.
  • On the importance of the natural world for contemplative practice and personal well-being (03:11–03:45).
• Musical Heritage and Spiritual Formation
  • Discusses the gospel song “Plant My Feet on Higher Ground,” connecting it to both familial heritage and the imperative for raising consciousness in spiritual life (04:10–05:08).
• Essential Works That Formed Dr. Ward’s Journey
  • James Baldwin’s The Fire Next Time (civil rights, personal awakening during the 1960s)
  • Søren Kierkegaard’s Despair and Sickness Unto Death (discovered while teaching post-MLK’s assassination)
  • Thich Nhat Hanh’s Peace Is Every Step (Buddhist contemplative influence, relationship with Martin Luther King, and deep presence)
    (06:07–07:22)

2. Meeting Thich Nhat Hanh and Multitradition Wisdom

• Dr. Ward on entering Buddhist practice through Thich Nhat Hanh’s presence and silence, not simply through words (09:35–09:58).
• Traces his engagement with multiple forms of Buddhism (Tibetan, Chinese, Korean) and his emphasis on calming, stillness, and adaptability in contemplative practice.

3. Harmonizing Christian and Buddhist Practice

• Dual Ordination
  • Dr. Ward reflects on being both an ordained Christian minister and a Buddhist teacher, seeing no conflict:

    “Meditation is meditation. … And the other thing important for me to say is I continue to learn about Christianity deeper through my Buddhist practice.” (11:27–12:21)

• Insights on interpreting Christian apocalyptic metaphors through Buddhist psychology for self-recognition and compassionate healing (12:42–13:48).

4. America's Racial Karma and Radical Healing

• Core Thesis of “America’s Racial Karma”
  • White supremacy perceived as a “religious, soul-level” phenomenon, not merely a political or economic one (14:27–15:04).
  • “Ego can’t solve ego”—politics alone cannot heal what is soul-deep.
• Patterns of Conditioning and Collective Trauma
  • How the Doctrine of Discovery, capitalism, and racial supremacy intertwine as “one pattern” that waters the seeds of racialized consciousness in society (17:16–19:07).
  • The necessity of “recognizing our individual seeds” and “collective rituals of grief” for genuine healing (20:06–24:18).
• Quote:

  “We have got to learn to honor our own humanity more than ideology.” – Dr. Larry Ward (24:18)

5. Mastering the Interior Life — Practical Contemplative Steps

• Humanity’s greatest weakness is mastering the interior life. Dr. Ward advises:
  • Slow down your life and intentionally find silence (25:25–26:47).
  • Learn to “hold your pain…without being captivated by reaction to it.”
• Advocates for “massive reeducation in spiritual learning” starting from childhood, emphasizing emotional intelligence over consumerism (25:41–28:47).

6. Intergenerational Wisdom and Learning from Children

• Stories of children’s directness, wisdom, and freedom from generational baggage.
  • Recounts a retreat where Thich Nhat Hanh was asked by a boy, “How did you get to be so peaceful?”:

    “First I decided I wanted to be peaceful… second, I found some peaceful people to be with.” (29:01–31:01)

• Stresses the importance of cross-generational contemplative practice and gatherings (nine to ninety years old).

7. Nature as Teacher & Everyday Contemplation

• Emphasizes that animals, plants, and minerals—“the wind, the moon, the duck”—all can be spiritual teachers if we genuinely slow down and pay attention (31:18–32:25).
• Advocates for “mini-retreats” in daily life, such as a contemplative walk before work (32:25–33:40).
• Creativity and spiritual renewal: making old practices new through personal creativity, such as rewriting chants or composing poetry.

8. Poetry, Creativity, and Living Metaphors

• Dr. Ward spontaneously shares an original poem, reflecting on the “shock” of existence and the interconnectedness of all (34:21–35:47).
  • Quote:

    “I intend to be open for a poem to come by like a guest, and then I try to catch the guest before it leaves the house.” (34:21)

9. The Fragrance of Wisdom: Scent as Contemplative Metaphor

• Draws from the Yogachara Buddhist tradition, describing how our thoughts, speech, and actions “perfume” the consciousness of others and ourselves for better or worse (36:45–37:52).
  • Quote:

    “It comes out as an aroma whether you’re conscious or not. … Perfume is about your impact, conscious or unconscious impact.” (37:40–37:52)

• Encourages listeners to “water the best seeds”—qualities like loving kindness, compassion, joy, and equanimity (the Brahma Viharas).

10. The Lotus Institute’s Mission and Offerings

• Cross-generational retreats, including online courses and monthly talks/meditations.
• Focus on the “Ten Worlds”: archetypal states of being and practical methods to unlearn inherited conditions.

11. Learning How to Suffer Less

• The importance of learning “how to suffer” instead of projecting pain onto society—central for personal and social health.
  • Recalls Thich Nhat Hanh’s response to why the Buddha smiles in the midst of so much suffering:

    “The Buddha is smiling because the Buddha knows how to practice with suffering. If you know how to suffer, you will suffer less.” (42:12–43:58)

• Dr. Ward: “Learning how to handle your pain instead of project your pain is one of the keys to having a healthy society where you feel safe.” (43:43–43:58)

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Presence as a Teacher:

  “What struck me was his [Thich Nhat Hanh’s] silence and his grace of movement…that much peacefulness with that much suffering was amazing to be in the presence of.” – Dr. Larry Ward (07:39–09:20)

• On White Supremacy and Ego:

  “Ego can’t solve ego. … We are making decisions every day about how we speak, how we think, and how we behave, which is what sustains it. No big mystery.” – Dr. Larry Ward (15:04–15:50)

• On Grief and Understanding:

  “Don’t forgive, don’t forget—practice so you can understand. And when you can understand, you can love.” – Dr. Larry Ward referencing a Vietnamese poet (20:06–24:18)

• On Intergenerational Wisdom:

  “Children and animals that I get to be close to have … great teachings. … Nature can teach you how to be human deeply if you are willing to enter into a contemplative relationship with it.” – Dr. Larry Ward (31:18–32:25)

• On Creativity and Poetry:

  “I intend to be open for a poem to come by like a guest, and then I try to catch the guest before it leaves the house.” – Dr. Larry Ward (34:21)

• On Suffering:

  “If you know how to suffer, you will suffer less. And most of us have never been taught how to suffer.” – Dr. Larry Ward, recalling Thich Nhat Hanh (42:12–43:58)

Key Timestamps

• 03:04 – Welcome and personal context (Arden, NC; connection to nature)
• 04:10 – On the gospel song “Plant My Feet on Higher Ground”
• 06:07 – Three formative works: Baldwin, Kierkegaard, Thich Nhat Hanh
• 07:39 – First encounter with Thich Nhat Hanh’s presence
• 11:27 – Christian Buddhism and reconciling traditions
• 13:48 – Application of Buddhist psychology to Christian metaphors
• 14:27–19:07 – On America’s Racial Karma and conditioning
• 20:06–24:18 – Grief work, trauma, collective healing
• 25:25–28:47 – Slowing down, emotional mastery, teaching children
• 29:13 – Children’s wisdom; Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching to kids
• 31:18–32:25 – Nature as contemplation teacher
• 34:21 – Dr. Ward shares original poetry
• 36:45–37:52 – Perfume as metaphor for the impact of mind and behavior
• 42:12–43:58 – The necessity of knowing how to suffer
• 44:33 – Drink pairing: mango juice as an analogy for contemplative practice

Final Notes

Dr. Larry Ward’s legacy is one of hope, skillful compassion, and practical spirituality. This conversation is a treasury of insight for contemplatives and seekers across traditions—a guide to healing, wisdom, and the art of holding both pain and joy with a deep, revolutionary tenderness.