Conversations With Coleman

Episode: Deal or No Deal? October 7 Hostage Families Divided
Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Coleman Hughes / The Free Press

Overview

This episode delves into one of the most agonizing dilemmas at the heart of Israeli society since October 7, 2023, when Hamas kidnapped over 250 people. Nearly two years later, some hostages still remain in Gaza, and as new hostage deals are proposed, the families of those held captive are sometimes deeply divided about what Israel should do next. Coleman speaks to family members on both sides: those advocating for a ceasefire and hostage release at any cost, and those demanding the war continue until Hamas is destroyed, even if it increases the risk to their loved ones.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Personal Toll of Hostage-Taking

Guest: Dahlia Kuzner Horn

(Sister-in-law to two hostages: Yair—since released, and Eitan—still held)

• Humanizing the Hostages: Dahlia stresses the importance of remembering the hostages as people, not just statistics.

"It's always important to remember who are they that we're talking about. Just human beings." (03:02)

• Experiences of Hostages: She recounts the brutality suffered by Yair and Eitan during and after their abduction—from beatings by civilians to torture and starvation in tunnels beneath Gaza.

"The Gaza population would come and beat them with big rocks and pieces of wood... and the last place they were taken was inside a mosque..." (02:31)

• Life After Release: Yair's return did not mark the end of trauma. He’s physically home but unable to engage in daily life, haunted by memories and concern for Eitan.

"He's physically walking around among us, but he's not here with us... He's not willing to go through rehabilitation, not physical and not psychological." (04:19)

• On the Hostage Crisis as a Societal Trauma: Dahlia links the ongoing hostage crisis to both the future of Israel and the broader region, viewing the hostages’ fate as central to any hope of regional progress.

2. The Deal Dilemma: Ceasefire at Any Cost?

Perspectives from Dahlia Kuzner Horn

• Public Opinion in Israel:
  Dahlia argues that the overwhelming majority of Israelis, including most Netanyahu voters, now want all hostages returned, even if it means ending the war with Hamas still in power.

"84% of the Israeli population wants to see all the hostages back, even if it means the end of the war..." (07:00)

• Moral Perspective:
  She maintains that Israel cannot "eliminate" Hamas any more than the U.S. could eliminate Al Qaeda or Nazis—evil ideologies persist. The priority should be to save lives.

"You cannot eliminate an ideology. We can save life. And what we need to do right now is save as many lives as we can." (08:28)

• On the Current Deal (Witkoff Deal):
  Dahlia describes ongoing negotiations, noting that Hamas has accepted a 60-day ceasefire proposal involving release of about half the hostages. Israel, she says, is now the delaying party.

"Now... Hamas said yes and now Israel is not taking it... I think what makes us unique is the fact that we sanctify life." (09:53)

• Security vs. Sanctity of Life:
  While recognizing the risks of leaving Hamas in power, she sees “sanctifying life” as a Jewish and Israeli value compelling enough to pursue a deal immediately.

3. Limits of Military Solutions and the Challenge of Elimination

Counter-Arguments Addressed

• “Eliminate Hamas” as an Unattainable Goal:
  Dahlia challenges hardliner views, drawing analogies to other unresolved ideological enemies throughout history.

“There's no such a thing as finishing the job as long as you have Qatar and you have Iran, who's sending money... you cannot eliminate them.” (16:06)

• Global Cooperation Needed:
  She advocates for international pressure—especially from Western democracies—on Hamas’s backers and for tying hostages’ release to any recognition of Palestinian statehood.

4. The Pressure of International Public Opinion

• Dahlia’s Fear:
  She is deeply worried about the shift in international opinion, the rise of antisemitism, and the failure of global organizations to advocate for hostages.

"I'm terrified not only because Jewish communities around the world are being attacked... Where is the Red Cross? Where are all those countries who are... sending humanitarian food... but where are those countries who are saying this food should go to the hostages as well?" (21:21)

5. Critique of Political Leadership

• On Netanyahu:
  Dahlia, with visible heartbreak, accuses the Prime Minister of letting political self-interest delay a hostage deal.

"With a big pain in my heart, unfortunately I believe it's true... it feels sometimes like it's being transformed as a political game. It's heartbreaking." (24:57)

6. Family Divisions Over the Right Course of Action

• Respect Among Hostage Families:
  Dahlia respects families who prioritize defeating Hamas, but argues military campaigns have already led to the deaths of 42 hostages—while agreements have saved over 120.

“42 hostages that were kidnapped alive and are now dead because of military pressure ...more than 120 hostages alive were saved and released in an agreement...” (28:00)

7. Speaking Out Publicly

• Dahlia on Advocacy:
  She feels compelled to speak out to keep her brother-in-law’s plight—and that of other hostages—in public consciousness and to motivate international action.

"I need your help and I need the help of everyone who's listening… Each and every one of them is an entire world." (29:53)

8. The Opposing Camp: Families Against a Deal at Any Cost

Guests: Svika Moore (father of Eitan Mor) & Tali Kvili (mother of Ron Gvili)

• Context:
  Both coming from the “Mothers of Israel” protest, these parents argue for total victory over Hamas—even if it puts their own children’s lives at risk.

• Personal Histories:

  • Tali Kvili’s son Ron was injured fighting on Oct. 7, images later surfaced of him in Gaza, and months later the family was told he likely died in captivity.
  • Svika Moore’s son Eitan, a Nova festival security guard, was taken by Gaza civilians, and his fate is unknown for months at a time.

• Israel’s Right to Exist and Defend Itself:
  Both draw on the long history of Jewish suffering and return to the land to justify the necessity of fighting.

9. Why Not Take a Hostage Deal?

Arguments from Tali Kvili & Svika Moore

• Distrust in Hamas:
  They do not believe Hamas would return most hostages under any deal, citing lack of proof-of-life and past failures to produce lists of captives.

“From day one, Hamas didn't provide a list of the hostages. We don't know the condition of our loved ones... we don't have another option. We have to fight.” — Svika (44:01)

• National Versus Personal Interest:
  Despite the agony, they put the collective security above family interest, seeing continued fighting as not only justifiable but necessary for long-term survival.

"I believe that the only chance for me to see my dear son is to win this war." — Svika (46:58)
"If he fights, then I feel like I should continue his war. If I asked Ronny, how do you want me to behave? He would tell me, Mom, tell everyone, you must eliminate and destroy Hamas. May there not be another mother like me in this country." — Tali (61:34)

• Winning the War Is Possible: Strategy & Critique:
  Svika suggests that military victory is within grasp if civilians in Gaza are evacuated, water and electricity cut, and Hamas forced out.

"Of course. You have to close water, electricity, and you will see that Hamas will surrender. It's very easy." (48:35)

• International Pressure—Undervalued:
  They downplay global opinion, arguing that Israel should act in its own best interest without worrying excessively about its reputation.

"We just very much have to do our job. They will talk about us that way anyway. It doesn't matter that much." — Tali (53:41)

10. Perspectives on Israeli Political Leadership

• Netanyahu’s Role:
  Tali, while critical of Netanyahu’s cautiousness, does not believe he prolongs the war for self-interest, and doubts anyone else could manage the situation better.

"He has no interest in continuing this war. Those who do not like him... are simply constantly looking for any excuse to do so." (57:34)

11. On Family and Unity Amid Disagreements

• Despite diametrically opposed positions, both families maintain camaraderie and respect for one another’s choices.

"We're not political enemies. We love all the family... My brother thinks something else, but we are still brothers." — Tali (46:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “For us, people say you have half job done, you know, you have 50% back. And I say, first of all, no, Yair is not a free man. And second, we need all the 50 hostages so we as an Israeli society and as a nation can start rebuilding ourselves…” — Dahlia (04:19)

• "There's no such a thing as a good deal to Israel when you release terrorists from the Israeli prisons. It's not a good deal. It is a deal that saves lives." — Dahlia (08:55)

• "I don't believe that the military pressure is the way to do it, because... we've seen till today 42 hostages that were kidnapped alive and are now dead because of military pressure." — Dahlia (27:50)

• “You have to close water, electricity, and you will see that Hamas will surrender. It's very easy.” — Svika (48:35)

• “If he fights, then I feel like I should continue his war. If I asked Ronnie, how do you want me to behave? He would tell me, mom, tell everyone, you must eliminate and destroy Hamas. May there not be another mother like me in this country.” — Tali (61:34)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:44–05:57 — Dahlia tells the story of Yair and Eitan Horn's abduction and aftermath
• 06:52–10:33 — Debating a ceasefire and the Witkoff deal: polling, values, and hard choices
• 16:06–20:59 — Responding to “destroy Hamas” arguments and international cooperation
• 21:21–24:47 — Fear over shifting global opinion and criticism of humanitarian organizations
• 24:57 — Dahlia accuses Netanyahu of prolonging the crisis for political reasons
• 28:00–29:23 — Military pressure vs. negotiated deals: the lethal cost to hostages
• 29:53 — Dahlia on why she advocates publicly for her brother-in-law
• 35:20–41:38 — Opening stories from Tali and Svika on the loss and uncertainty about their sons
• 43:06–47:43 — Why some families reject a deal at any price; the logic of prioritizing the national security
• 48:35–51:34 — Military strategies for defeating Hamas and the difficulties involved
• 52:05–54:18 — The impact and limits of international opinion and American political dynamics
• 57:34–58:25 — Tali’s defense of Netanyahu and Israeli leadership
• 61:34–63:09 — Personal motivations for public advocacy: carrying on their children’s mission

Conclusion

This episode presents two deeply persuasive but opposing perspectives shaped by unimaginable personal loss. Dahlia Kuzner Horn calls for Israel to pursue a deal to save the hostages and begin regional healing, insisting the cycle of violence cannot be broken by force alone. In contrast, Svika Moore and Tali Kvili argue—sometimes against their own heartbreak—that long-term survival demands the destruction of Hamas, even at extraordinary personal cost. Through authentic, emotional testimony, Coleman exposes listeners to the wrenching dilemmas now dividing families, society, and the nation itself.