Conversations With Coleman: Live in Melbourne with Josh Szepps
Hosted by The Free Press / Coleman Hughes
Release Date: September 7, 2024

Introduction

In the "Live in Melbourne w/Josh Szepps" episode of Conversations With Coleman, host Coleman Hughes engages in a thought-provoking dialogue with Australian broadcaster Josh Szepps. Recorded during Hughes's appearances in Sydney and Melbourne, this episode delves deep into contemporary social issues, particularly focusing on indigenous land acknowledgments, white guilt, and the portrayal of race in Hollywood. The conversation is rich with insights, challenging prevailing narratives and encouraging listeners to engage in genuine discovery rather than mere debate.

Indigenous Land Acknowledgments in Australia

The episode opens with an exploration of the widespread practice of indigenous land acknowledgments in Australia. Josh Szepps introduces the topic by acknowledging the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation and reflects on the normalization of such practices in Australian society.

Josh Szepps [01:24]: "I actually should say, on behalf of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, whose ancestors, past, present and future, I acknowledge and respect, welcome on their behalf."

Hughes raises questions about the significance and authenticity of these acknowledgments, given his position as a foreigner observing Australian customs.

Coleman Hughes [02:37]: "Because I'm a foreigner mainly. And the customs of any country seem strange to foreigners until they don't, and they seem strange when they're introduced."

He contrasts these practices with traditions from other cultures, emphasizing respect for established customs while critiquing what he perceives as excessive ritualization.

White Guilt and the Enlightenment Project

A substantial portion of the conversation addresses the concept of white guilt, particularly among white liberals in Western societies. Hughes shares his observations from interactions with West African friends, highlighting a lack of inherited guilt over historical atrocities such as the African slave trade.

Coleman Hughes [04:21]: "It's just a neutral fact for us. What does it have to do with me?"

This leads to a broader discussion about how different cultures handle historical wrongdoings. Hughes argues that white liberals uniquely seek to inherit guilt for actions committed by their ancestors, a phenomenon not mirrored in many other cultures.

Coleman Hughes [06:54]: "The idea that I inherit the guilt for things I didn't do is so. It's so fundamental, I think."

Josh Szepps challenges this notion by suggesting that acknowledgment of historical injustices should stem from recognition and ownership rather than guilt.

Josh Szepps [07:50]: "It could be interpreted as evidence of a certain level of enlightenment."

Hughes counters by advocating for balanced remembrance—commemorating suffering appropriately without constant reiteration that fosters a pathological obsession with guilt.

Coleman Hughes [08:07]: "An enlightened ownership and understanding of the sins of the past would be having one day a year or maybe a week where you commemorate the suffering... It doesn't mean that every single flight that lands in Melbourne should begin with a re acknowledgment."

Hollywood's Progressive Bias: "Woman King" and "Hidden Figures"

Hughes critiques Hollywood's approach to depicting historical narratives, asserting that there is a prevalent "progressive bias" that distorts facts to fit a particular moral framework. He cites the films "Woman King" and "Hidden Figures" as examples where historical complexities are oversimplified to portray non-white characters as morally superior and white characters as inherently flawed.

Coleman Hughes [17:39]: "In my book, I call it neo racism... it's like moral goodness. Right. White people are thought to be sort of inherently morally worse than people of color broadly."

In discussing "Woman King", Hughes points out the film's portrayal of the Dahomey tribe, a historically significant African group known for slave trading, which the movie allegedly misrepresents to fit a narrative of victimized heroism.

Coleman Hughes [20:04]: "They completely bastardized the history to make it seem like the Dahomey tribe was sort of forced into slave trading or had serious moral qualms about slave trading."

Regarding "Hidden Figures", Hughes acknowledges the film's positive aspects but criticizes its inaccurate depiction of segregation at NASA, where one of the central characters reportedly did not experience segregation, yet the film portrays it as a significant barrier.

Coleman Hughes [20:56]: "Only problem is one of them came out in an interview before the movie was made and said she didn't feel any segregation when she was at NASA. But of course, they had to make it so..."

Neo Racism and Its Impact on Policy

Hughes introduces the concept of neo racism, describing it as a modern inversion of traditional white supremacy where whiteness is morally condemned. This ideology, he argues, is prevalent among certain progressive circles, particularly within Hollywood, corporate America, and academia.

Coleman Hughes [17:39]: "In my book, I call it neo racism... anything other than whiteness is morally superior."

This neo-racist mindset, selon Hughes, fuels policies that prioritize race over merit or need, leading to decisions that may not effectively address the issues they intend to solve. Examples include:

• Defunding the Police: Redirecting funds away from law enforcement based on racial considerations rather than effectiveness.
• Race-Based Aid Distribution: Allocating COVID-era restaurant aid based on race rather than economic necessity.
• Employment Practices: Altering teacher contracts to favor black teachers during layoffs, bypassing race-neutral criteria.

Coleman Hughes [16:17]: "I'm talking about defunding the police, for instance. I'm talking about handing out Covid era restaurant aid on the basis of race rather than need..."

Josh Szepps counters by suggesting that what Hughes describes might instead be seen as an overly enthusiastic pursuit of social justice, where the desire to acknowledge past wrongs leads to disproportionate responses in the present.

Josh Szepps [22:00]: "If you're obsessed with social justice... getting obsessed with social justice is just the necessary pendulum swing..."

Hughes, however, contends that these policies represent a fundamental misalignment with the true goals of social justice, which should focus on equality and non-discrimination rather than perpetuating new forms of victimhood.

Cultural and Media Impacts

The discussion extends to the broader cultural implications of neo racism, particularly how it shapes media narratives and public perception. Hughes emphasizes that the portrayal of race in media often lacks complexity, reducing characters and historical figures to simplistic moral archetypes.

Coleman Hughes [17:39]: "It's really like moral goodness. Right. White people are thought to be sort of inherently morally worse than people of color broadly."

This oversimplification not only distorts historical truths but also reinforces divisive narratives that hinder genuine progress toward a multicultural and equitable society. Hughes advocates for a more nuanced understanding of history and race relations, devoid of ingrained biases that favor one group over another.

Conclusion

In "Live in Melbourne w/Josh Szepps", Coleman Hughes offers a critical examination of contemporary social justice movements, particularly within Western liberal contexts. By dissecting practices like indigenous land acknowledgments and scrutinizing the portrayal of race in Hollywood, Hughes challenges listeners to reconsider the foundations of current societal norms. The conversation underscores the importance of balancing recognition of historical injustices with a commitment to fostering an equitable, non-discriminatory future.

For those interested in the continuation of this enlightening discussion, the second half of the conversation is available through Josh Szepps's Substack page, with additional content from their Sydney event accessible on YouTube via the show notes.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Szepps [01:24]: "I actually should say, on behalf of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, whose ancestors, past, present and future, I acknowledge and respect, welcome on their behalf."

• Coleman Hughes [04:21]: "It's just a neutral fact for us. What does it have to do with me?"

• Coleman Hughes [17:39]: "In my book, I call it neo racism... it's like moral goodness. Right. White people are thought to be sort of inherently morally worse than people of color broadly."

• Coleman Hughes [20:56]: "Only problem is one of them came out in an interview before the movie was made and said she didn't feel any segregation when she was at NASA. But of course, they had to make it so..."

• Coleman Hughes [22:26]: "I would argue that justice gone too far isn't justice almost by definition."

For a deeper dive into the topics discussed, be sure to listen to the full episode and explore the additional resources provided in the show notes.