Episode Overview

Podcast: Conversations With Coleman
Host: Coleman Hughes
Guest: Dr. Gad Saad, evolutionary psychologist
Date: October 20, 2025
Episode: "When Empathy Goes Too Far with Dr. Gad Saad"

In this episode, Coleman Hughes sits down with Dr. Gad Saad to discuss his forthcoming book, Suicidal Empathy. The conversation explores how empathy—often lauded as a cornerstone of moral virtue—can become destructive when taken to extremes. Drawing on both personal history and evolutionary psychology, Saad articulates why he believes contemporary Western societies, particularly the political left, have over-corrected toward empathy in ways that endanger civilizational stability. The episode also reflects on Saad’s experiences as a Lebanese Jew, the lessons he draws from identity politics, and the evolutionary logic behind moral sentiment.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Dr. Gad Saad’s Background and Experiences as a Lebanese Jew

• Saad provides a vivid account of growing up as a Jew in Lebanon. He describes a minuscule Jewish community within a larger, frequently hostile populace.
  • Quote:
    “[...] part of a very, very minuscule community of Jews. [...] even before the civil war broke out, where it really became an imminent threat of execution to be Jewish.” (03:02)
• Personal stories of antisemitism, including being forced to keep his identity secret and direct incidents of hatred during childhood and adolescence.
• Example: Saad’s brother, a judo champion, was pressured to retire due to his Jewish identity. After fleeing, he later represented Lebanon in the Olympics.
  • Quote:
    “He was visited by some men who explained to him that it was time for him to retire, lest there might be an accident, unfortunate accident that happens to him.” (05:37)
• The Lebanese political system is explained as confessional, with power explicitly divided by sect. Jews were excluded from real participation.

2. Identity Politics—Lessons from Lebanon

• Saad draws a connection between Lebanon’s system of identity-based organization and the current trend of identity politics in the West.
  • Quote:
    “Lebanon is the ultimate manifestation of what happens to a society that is organized along identity with the ethos of identity politics. In this case, it’s your religion...” (08:15)
• He invokes his own experience to caution against importing similar identity-based frameworks into Western governance.
  • “Understanding what happens to religious minorities in societies that eventually become dominated by Islam is one hell of a lesson to learn.” (09:02)

3. Was Islam Historically Tolerant of Jews?

• Coleman presents the argument that, in history, the Ottoman Empire and Islamic societies were sometimes more tolerant toward Jews than Christendom.
• Saad rebuts forcefully, using an analogy with infamous serial killers to argue that rare periods of peace do not negate long histories of oppression and violence.
  • Quote:
    “Islam is a very bad place for religious minorities to be. That doesn’t mean that for 24 hours a day, seven days a week for 1400 years, they go about slaughtering everybody.” (11:24)
  • Cites the concept of dhimmitude and the Armenian Genocide to underscore his position.
• Saad dismisses the romanticization of Al-Andalus, noting scholarly evidence of its hardships for non-Muslims.

4. The Lebanese System and Western Democratic Norms

• Discussion about Lebanon’s post-war seat allocation for Christians and Muslims (50/50), which is undemocratic by Western standards.
• Saad explains the dangers of tying civil rights and safety to one’s sectarian status.
  • Example: Religious identity on ID cards determined life or death at roadblocks during the civil war.
    • “That was one of the reasons why it was very difficult for us to actually leave the house in Lebanon, even to go to a bread queue.” (15:11)
  • Quote:
    “If you wish to abide by the freeing ethos of individual dignity, then there is no way to ever justify allocating parliamentary seats based on religion.” (14:48)

5. The Concept of “Suicidal Empathy”

• Prompted by a discussion of Paul Bloom’s book, Against Empathy, Saad introduces his thesis: empathy, like all adaptive mechanisms, is harmful when unregulated.
  • Quote:
    “Empathy is a perfectly adaptive, noble virtue when properly expressed. […] The hyperactivation of empathy and the erroneous targeting of who should be privy to our empathy becomes suicidal empathy.” (18:55)
• Uses analogies from biology (cancer) and psychology (OCD) to show how mechanisms that help us can, when outside their normal range of functioning, destroy us.
• Concrete examples:
  • Favoring the rights of repeat offenders over victims
  • Excusing abhorrent acts out of a misplaced sense of compassion toward the perpetrators

6. Western Societies and the Origins of Suicidal Empathy

• Saad sees certain cultural features (e.g., “moral preening,” or a desire to display virtue above all) as fertilizer for suicidal empathy.
• Cites historical acts of suicide in collectivist societies (e.g., seppuku) and draws a parallel to self-annihilating Western policies in the name of empathy or anti-racism.
  • Quote:
    “Suicidal empathy is a form of moral lobotomy where you no longer are abiding by all of the evolutionary based computational systems in your mind because you’ve transcended that. You are on a higher moral plane.” (29:24)
• Highlights cases like the Rotherham grooming gangs in the UK, where authorities’ fear of being labeled racist led to systematic failure to protect vulnerable girls.

7. Is Suicidal Empathy Only a Left-Wing Phenomenon?

• Coleman challenges Saad: Does the right ever suffer from maladaptive empathy, or is this only associated with the left?
• Saad concedes some tendencies but maintains the left is overwhelmingly susceptible, tying leftist worldview to externalizing blame (e.g., poverty, crime) and refusing to attribute negative outcomes to personal agency.
  • Quote:
    “Much of the manifestations of suicidal empathy that I can think of by definition will come from the truly noble and kind and compassionate liberals.” (40:40)
• Examples on the right (e.g., support for tariffs to help displaced workers) are considered more a case of misattributed causality than suicidal empathy per se.

8. Psychological and Biological Roots of Political Orientation

• Debate: Are left and right simply “tribes" or do they reflect underlying psychological/biological divides?
• Saad references The Enigma of Reason by Mercier & Sperber—humans evolved reasoning to win arguments, not seek truth.
• Saad supports Sowell’s thesis that left and right stem from fundamentally different visions—utopian vs. tragic visions of human nature.
• He brings in evolutionary psychology and physical traits: more physically formidable men are less likely to support egalitarian policies.
  • Quote:
    “[...] if I am physically strong, I’m likely to appreciate the fact that life is competitive. [...] If I think that we should all end up equally at the same place because it’s unfair to have any instantiation of inequality, then I’m much more likely to support egalitarianism because that’s more fair.” (51:48)
• E.O. Wilson: “Great idea, wrong species”—explaining why communism fails for humans.

9. Contradictions and the Culture of Victimhood

• Coleman queries how elite winners like Gavin Newsom thrive by signaling empathy.
• Saad distinguishes between actual hardships (his and his family’s experiences) and contemporary "victimhood olympics."
  • Quote:
    “When it is appropriate for me to say it as I am saying it on the current show, I will say it because it’s part of my regrettable history. But what defines me is that I’ve overcome it to be able to sit now and have a wonderful conversation with Coleman Hughes.” (57:16)

10. What Can Be Done About Suicidal Empathy?

• Saad advocates for calibrated empathy, invoking Aristotle’s ethics: “All things at the right time, at the right place, to the right target, in the right situation.”
  • Quote:
    “It’s not a linear function. More empathy always better than less empathy. It’s an inverted U. Too little empathy is not good. It makes you a psychopath. Too much empathy makes you suicidally empathetic. And the trick in life is to find that sweet spot.” (62:13)
• Urges cultivating mindfulness about the risks of excessive empathy and resisting virtue signaling for its own sake.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I remind people that even before the civil war broke out ... it's not as though the romanticized view that people have of Lebanon, the Paris of the Middle East ... That doesn't mean that a Jew could aspire to be Prime Minister or President of Lebanon.” — Dr. Gad Saad (04:11)
• “Empathy is a perfectly adaptive, noble virtue when properly expressed ... The hyperactivation of empathy and the erroneous targeting of who should be privy to our empathy becomes suicidal empathy.” — Dr. Gad Saad (18:55)
• “Western societies have developed an orgiastic attachment to the signaling of empathy, even at the expense of truth or safety.” — Dr. Gad Saad (28:13)
• “Much of the manifestations of suicidal empathy that I can think of by definition will come from the truly noble and kind and compassionate liberals.” — Dr. Gad Saad (40:40)
• “Great idea, wrong species.” — E.O. Wilson, referenced by Dr. Gad Saad on the failure of communism (52:25)
• “More empathy always better than less empathy? It’s an inverted U. Too little empathy is not good ... Too much empathy makes you suicidally empathetic. And the trick in life is to find that sweet spot.” — Dr. Gad Saad (62:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:41] Growing up as a Jew in Lebanon
• [05:37] Judo champion brother forced to leave; representing Lebanon in Olympics
• [08:06] Lebanon as a cautionary tale for identity politics
• [10:55] Islam & historical treatment of Jews
• [14:21] Lebanese confessional system and its perils
• [17:33] Introduction to “suicidal empathy”
• [25:07] Cultural origins of suicidal empathy and “moral preening”
• [33:17] Detailed discussion of UK grooming gangs as examples of suicidal empathy
• [36:20] Is empathy dysfunction a left/right phenomenon?
• [47:37] Left/right: mere tribes or deep psychological differences?
• [51:46] Physical formidability and political orientation
• [55:26] Reconciling elite status with empathetic signaling
• [61:07] Practical advice: how to calibrate empathy and resist suicidal empathy

Conclusion & Takeaways

The conversation robustly critiques the modern Western tendency to idolize empathy, especially in political decision-making, at the expense of rationality, justice, or even self-preservation. Dr. Saad argues that only by finding a calibrated, situation-responsive approach to empathy can individuals and societies safeguard both compassion and survival. The discussion blends personal narrative, psychology, and philosophy in a sharp, sometimes pointed, but ultimately clarifying dialogue.

Find Dr. Gad Saad at: gadsa.com
Learn more about his work at the Declaration of Independence Center for the Study of American Freedom, Ole Miss.
Follow @GadSaad on Twitter/X