Podcast Summary: Conversations With Coleman – "Why Liberal Religion is Losing Ground"

Host: Coleman Hughes (A)
Guest: Rabbi David Wolpe (B)
Date: January 26, 2026
Podcast: Conversations With Coleman (The Free Press)

Overview

In this episode, Coleman Hughes sits down with Rabbi David Wolpe, one of America’s most influential rabbis and a noted author and scholar, for a nuanced and far-reaching discussion on religion’s role in modern life. The conversation traverses the decline of liberal religion, the interplay between faith and modernity, the complexity of Judaism as religion and culture, anti-Semitism’s peculiar manifestations, ideological “new religions” of the left, and the controversy around words like "Zionism". The episode also touches on theology, personal health struggles, and the challenges facing America’s medical system. True to the show’s spirit, the dialogue is thoughtful, open, and peppered with humor.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Rabbi Wolpe's Background & Approach to Faith

• Wolpe’s upbringing: Raised by a conservative rabbi father in Philadelphia; became a rabbi, writer, teacher, and eventually scholar-in-residence at the Maimonides Fund. Served 26 years at Sinai Temple, LA. (04:02–05:33)
• Perspective on modernity: Conservative Judaism stands between Orthodoxy (literal) and Reform (liberal), aiming to balance tradition and modern interpretation.

2. Debates with the New Atheists: Materialism & Beyond

• What the New Atheists got right:
  • “They got right the fact that modernity poses unprecedented challenges to religious faith… most of religion doesn’t really make claims about natural science. More corrosive was the recognition that these religions were... profoundly, historically impacted.” — Rabbi Wolpe (06:08)
• What they got wrong:
  • “I think they thought: Right, you either believe there’s an old man in the sky... or you realize religion is ridiculous. And… there is a huge area in between.” (07:22)
• Materialism vs. non-materialism: The world divides between people who believe in “the non-material as real” and those who don’t.

3. Judaism as Religion, Peoplehood, and Tribe

• Distinctiveness of Jewish identity:
  • “To call it a religion doesn’t fit. To call it a peoplehood doesn't quite get to it… It’s kind of like a tribe… there are lots of ways of being Jewish and fidelity to peoplehood is a really important part.” — Rabbi Wolpe (09:04)
• Comparisons with other groups: Jews’ mutual kinship parallels (e.g., Ismaili Muslims) but is rare among Christians.

4. Jewish, Islamic, and Christian Law—

• Christianity as the “outlier”:
  • “In Islam and Judaism, civil law and criminal law and religious law are all the same… That’s not true in Christianity. Christianity grew up in the Roman Empire where civil law was taken care of… Christianity... was poised to give us that great gift which… is the separation of church and state.” (11:49–13:24)
• Historical evolution: Christianity’s context led to a separation of religious and civil governance, a distinction less common in Judaism or Islam.

5. Openness, Assimilation, and Modernization

• Why Jews assimilated more easily than Muslims:
  • Jews’ experience in the Christian world and exposure to modernity made them “geared to excel in modernity... an information-based culture.” (14:59–17:16)

6. Paganism, Monotheism, and the Atlantic Controversy

• Defining "paganism" in modern politics:
  • “The paganism of the right is… the worship of wealth and power. The paganism of the left is elevating environmentalism over humans.” — Rabbi Wolpe (17:56)
• Reaction from self-identified pagans:
  • Harvard theologians who self-identify as pagans were offended by the Bible-based definition, but after discussion, found common ground. “By and large, the pagans fought fair.” (20:11)

7. Secularism, Activism, and the New Religions

• Activist psychology:
  • “There is a certain psychological reluctance to succeed because it takes some of your cause away then… Anybody who admits that they won is a traitor…” — Rabbi Wolpe (23:19)
• Liberal secularism as a replacement for religion:
  • Coleman: “Intersectionality has taken the character of a religion... White privilege is psychologically similar to original sin… Secular liberals... are swimming in various new religions...” (24:20)
  • Wolpe: “There’s a hole in us... a man is born believing—he bears belief as a tree bears apples...” (26:02)
  • DEI & conspiracy logic leading to anti-Semitic tropes: Theories of systemic injustice can morph into conspiracy logic, ultimately targeting Jews. (27:18–28:23)

8. Liberal Religion’s Decline

• Strict vs. liberal religion:
  • Coleman asks if the decline is due to the so-called "strict church paradox": “If you have a relaxed church where you can believe whatever you want... it actually doesn’t keep people coming back...” (31:27)
  • Wolpe: “Non-literalist movements means that you engage more with the society in general. And the society in general is a very attractive society... Non-literalist faith... struggles with... ‘Why shouldn’t I do this?’ Once you remove ‘because God said so’... giving reasons is a lot harder.” (32:15–36:03)

9. Anti-Semitism, Bigotry, and Campus Life

• Unique aspects of anti-Semitism:
  • “There is a weird, subhuman, superhuman valence to it. That is, Jews are vermin who control the world... [and] it always resolves to some kind of conspiracy.” — Rabbi Wolpe (36:30)
• Debate over anti-Semitism on campuses:
  • Coleman (38:48): Challenges the conflation of “speech that makes me uncomfortable” with actual harassment, emphasizing free speech, even for deeply offensive views.
  • Wolpe: Agrees, distinguishing between protected speech and harassment; “It gets much trickier when they’re said by professors… But when professors say them, or when, as you say… follow Jewish students around... that’s harassment.” (41:21)

10. The Language of Protest: “From the River to the Sea”

• Nuanced understanding:
  • Coleman: Many protestors may not understand the origins or genocidal implications of this phrase for Israelis or Jews.
  • Wolpe: “In Arabic, it is... Palestine will be Arab. That’s a pretty clear declaration of there won’t be Jews there. But for a while, [students] may not have known, but pretty soon it was clear.” (45:32–47:25)

11. The Meaning and Usefulness of “Zionism”

• Coleman: “Why is [‘Zionist’] still a useful word... after Israel’s establishment? In practice, it allows the enemies of Israel to portray it as not a real country...” (51:20)
• Wolpe: “Nobody calls themselves a Frenchist because they believe France has a right to exist. But that’s essentially what Zionist means... there has to be something of a pushback.” (53:17–55:32)
• Both agree: The term is now more about pushback against refusal to recognize Israel’s existence.

12. Relationship Between Enlightenment Values and Religion

• Enlightenment without religious roots is fragile:
  • “To the extent that enlightenment values are based solely on the products of human reason, I think that they are fragile and dangerous... an underlying value structure... is essential.” — Rabbi Wolpe (56:21)
• Warning against “cut flower ethics” (Will Herberg):
  • Morality derived from religion may fade if divorced entirely from its roots.

13. Personal Health Struggles: The Reality of American Healthcare

• Rabbi Wolpe on battling cancer and brain surgery:
  • “We do not… value nurses the way we should... The doctors were great, the nurses make all the difference…” (59:06)
  • “The experience... [is that] it was, in extremists, good... But anything a little less than extremists was hard to get, hard to navigate.”
  • Survival hinged not just on good care but on knowing how to access it; the system is daunting even for the privileged. (59:06–62:54)
  • Humorous comment: “You are the first human being that has said, ‘How did it make you feel about the American medical system?’” (58:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On debating Christopher Hitchens:
  • “If you’re going to hang yourself, you should do it from the tallest tree. So I figured, if I was going to lose the debate to Hitchens, that’s no shame.” — Wolpe (03:20)
• On secular activism:
  • “[Activists have] a certain psychological reluctance to succeed because it takes some of your cause away then.” — Wolpe (23:22)
• On anti-Semitism logic:
  • “It almost follows like the night, the day—these conspiracy theories… Jews control and have rigged the game so that they end up on top.” — Wolpe (27:38)
• On religious observance without literal faith:
  • “It’s a very effective… declaration to say: ‘Because God said you can’t.’ As soon as you don’t believe that literally, then you have to give reasons… and giving reasons is a lot harder...” — Wolpe (35:20)
• On understanding protest slogans:
  • “Political slogans, unless they are explicit... their meaning is contested by definition.” — Coleman (47:25)
• On recovery and the system:
  • “We just do not value nurses the way we should… if I had been by myself, it would have been a very hard go.” — Wolpe (59:06)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Personal background & journey to the rabbinate: 04:02–05:42
• Debates with the New Atheists: 05:42–08:16
• Judaism as tribe, not just faith: 09:04–11:02
• The legal difference between Christianity and Judaism/Islam: 11:49–14:59
• Why liberal religion is losing adherents: 31:27–36:03
• Unique nature of anti-Semitism: 36:30–38:18
• Campus free speech and anti-Semitism delineation: 38:48–44:24
• Debate over “From the River to the Sea”: 44:24–51:15
• What does “Zionist” mean now? 51:20–55:32
• Religion, Enlightenment, and morality: 56:21–58:27
• Rabbi Wolpe on illness & American healthcare: 58:39–62:54

Final Thoughts

The conversation ranges from theological nuance to the nitty-gritty of campus activism, warning of the dangers inherent in both secular and religious dogmas when they become exclusionary or untethered from deeper values. While expressing hope for cross-cultural understanding and the future of liberal religion, the episode ultimately calls for humility, open debate, and the recognition that even Enlightenment reason relies on hidden groundings—often, religious ones.

Rabbi Wolpe’s contact/info:

• Twitter: @rabbiwolpe
• Instagram: @davidjwolpe
• Facebook: /rabbiwolpe
• Latest book: Biography of King David; working on a book about religious values lost in America