#168 - Is Children's Church Indoctrination? A Divorced Dad's Dilemma

Summary

---

Coparent Academy Podcast

Episode #168 – Is Children's Church Indoctrination? A Divorced Dad's Dilemma
Hosts: Linda VanValkenburg and Ron Gore
Date: July 14, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Linda and Ron address a nuanced and sensitive coparenting issue: Is taking a young child to children’s church a form of indoctrination, or just part of growing up in a religious household? Using a Reddit post from a concerned divorced dad as their springboard, the hosts explore the complexities faced by coparents of differing (or opposing) beliefs, especially when it comes to introducing religion to young children. They delve into the tension between providing space for a child’s independent thought and the reality of "osmosis" in religious households, sharing both personal stories and practical wisdom.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reddit Situation: Dad’s Dilemma

• Context: The hosts discuss a Reddit post from a father anxious about his one-year-old daughter’s exposure to religious practices by her mother’s family, whom he perceives as “indoctrinating” her.
• The mother and her parents are described as devout Christians, while the father is a non-believer. The co-parenting situation has become strained, with the father feeling increasingly alienated.
• Host 1 (Ron): "This kid's one, a one year old is not being indoctrinated. I'm sorry." (01:15)
• Host 2 (Linda): Emphasizes that at children’s church at such a young age, "they're just playing, right?" (01:23) And that true religious discussions start much later.

2. Definition and Concerns Around Indoctrination

• The hosts distinguish between cultural exposure and true indoctrination, particularly at the toddler stage:
  • Ron: "They're not doing like, they're not having ontological discussions." (01:28)
  • Linda: Significant beliefs and rituals, like praying before meals, happen “just by osmosis” in a religious home. (01:46)
• The father’s anxiety is compounded by his negative personal experiences with Christians, especially with his ex’s family, who he feels are "gatekeeping" his daughter from him. (02:19)

3. Mutual Biases and Co-Parenting Challenges

• Linda points out that biases are likely present on both sides, as the mother’s family may also resist exposure to the father's secular beliefs. (02:35-02:45)
• The hosts find the father's parenthetical description of Christianity, defining them as "a devout sect who practices the Sabbath and believes that Jesus will return one day" (02:45), as notable—Ron interprets it as the father “othering” the mother’s family and creating distance. (03:30)

4. Children Navigating Mixed Beliefs

• Linda shares an anecdote from her practice: an interfaith family where the child eventually boiled her dual religious exposure down to whether she could eat bacon, demonstrating how children often synthesize complex issues in simple, practical terms. (04:29)
• The hosts suggest that trying to force a child into one belief system is likely to backfire, referencing “Footloose” and the tendency for children to rebel when pushed too hard.
  • Ron: "If you try to force your beliefs on a child and you try to curb what they can or can't do, they're just going to rebel." (05:04)
• Best coparenting practice: provide a “loving platform,” offer open information and experiences from both perspectives, and trust the child to make her own informed choices as she grows. (05:04-05:53)

5. Hopeful Signs and the Big Picture

• Despite expressing frustration, the father indicates he doesn’t want to belittle his daughter's growing relationship with her mother and grandmother—even though he disagrees with their beliefs.

  • Linda: "He does see how important the bigger picture is of her love for them and that he hasn’t...already told his daughter how foolish that he sees that belief system." (06:55)

• The hosts note a change in the father’s tone when he concludes his Reddit post with a practical question: “What are some tactics you use to teach your child to think independently about religious beliefs?” This, they agree, is a healthy and hopeful sign.

  • Ron: "That is a great expression, a great question, and that doesn't have any of the same sort of tone as the rest of his post." (07:41)

6. Personal Story: Growing Up in a Restrictive Religious Home

• Linda shares her own background as the only child of a minister in a restrictive Christian sect, not encouraged to think independently or explore other faiths—something she later sought out actively as an adult. (08:28)
  • She describes purposefully expanding her perspective in graduate school, visiting different places of worship, and finding value in spiritual diversity:
    • "I have a very similar response to each one of those places. So I would hope...that she is allowed to experience other religions with an open mind and her father will have an open mind to her doing so." (11:27)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ron (on indoctrination at 1 year old):
  • "This kid's one, a one year old is not being indoctrinated. I'm sorry." (01:15)
• Linda (on children's church):
  • "When she goes to children's church, they're just playing, right?" (01:23)
• Ron (on religious exposure):
  • "If you try to force your beliefs on a child and you try to curb what they can or can't do, they're just going to rebel." (05:04)
• Linda (hopes for the child's upbringing):
  • "[I] would hope for this child, this little baby ... she is allowed to experience other religions with an open mind and her father will have an open mind to her doing so." (11:27)
• Linda (on the child’s innocent perspective):
  • "It boiled down to specifically bacon. And she did. And she was much older than this one year old. She was eight or nine...I even testified about the bacon." (04:29)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-01:13 – Reddit post introduction & outline of the dad’s dilemma
• 01:13-01:34 – Debating whether a one-year-old child can be indoctrinated
• 02:00-02:45 – Osmosis of beliefs and mutual biases in coparenting
• 03:30-04:33 – Interfaith co-parenting anecdote (“bacon” story)
• 05:04-05:53 – Risks of forcing beliefs; value in exposing both viewpoints
• 06:24-06:55 – Discussing the father's hopefulness despite concerns
• 07:41-08:16 – Recognizing the father’s search for constructive solutions
• 08:28-11:27 – Linda’s personal journey from religious restriction to exploration
• 11:27-end – Final hopes for the child and her coparents

---

Episode Takeaways

• While tensions are real, children—especially very young ones—are more likely absorbing community and ritual than being consciously indoctrinated.
• The healthiest co-parenting approach emphasizes openness, trust, and providing a broad platform of experiences, allowing the child to ultimately form their own beliefs.
• Both hosts highlight the importance of keeping hope alive and focusing on the child’s emotional well-being and independent growth rather than adult grievances.

---

Transcript

[Host 1]

We have a Reddit post here that we're going to talk about, and this one's about religion. It's a little potential touchy.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

So this dad is concerned that mom and mom's family are indoctrinating their child and he's got feelings about it. Do you want to, you want to start us off?

[Host 2]

This little girl's just a year old, and as the father mentions here she is living with her mother and mother's parents. Mother might do some of the religious things a little differently if she were living alone, I don't know. But there are several things that father does have a problem with. He calls it indoctrination. They do take the child to church, to children's church, have a little service at home on Saturday, et cetera. They may have tempered the religious belief stuff when they were together, but. But now it may seem to be two really extremes where the mother is a devout Christian and the father is a non believer.

[Host 1]

He says the expression is being unequally yolked.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Is how I heard that growing up.

[Host 2]

Yes, me too.

[Host 1]

I can't just get past the idea at the moment that this kid's one, a one year old is not being indoctrinated. I'm sorry.

[Host 2]

And when she goes to children's church, they're just playing, right?

[Host 1]

That's just playing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

They're not doing like, they're not having ontological discussions.

[Host 2]

No. It's not until at least fourth grade or so.

[Host 1]

No. Well, that's when you get into. That's reading into post millennial dispensationalism. So I mean, you have to segment this stuff out. I do understand the idea that you get brought up in a community.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

And so in this community, in this home in which this child's being brought up, she's going to just by osmosis, take in some of these Christian practices and beliefs that he's concerned about.

[Host 2]

And no doubt she believes that you should pray before a meal and they're going to let her start delivering the prayer as soon as she can speak.

[Host 1]

Sure. And encouraging it, and who knows what that prayer will be. His concern is that he doesn't have a good experience with people who identify as Christian generally.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

But also specifically, it seems like the mom's family in this were gatekeeping, trying to keep him away from the child. So he's frustrated and angry and doesn't like these people.

[Host 2]

And who knows, they could have their own bias on the other side in that they don't want her subjected to his Belief system.

[Host 1]

Exactly. I found it really interesting that he found it necessary to parenthetically describe Christianity. I think that most people have a sense of what Christianity is. And I just found his language interesting here where he said Christianity and then parenthetically a devout sect who practices the Sabbath and believes that Jesus will return one day. I don't know about you, but when I read that, it just gives me this idea that this person is really othering this Christian family and this is the same person, the same woman with whom presumably he chose to have a child.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

And so that just to me, it just jumped off the page as I'm trying to message to everyone reading this what they are and what I am and that we're entirely opposite.

[Host 2]

Right. In the area where we live, with the oil and gas industry being pretty large here, we get people from all over the world and frequently they find each other. And I've had parents that were quite different. I remember a mom that was Southern Baptist and a dad that was Muslim. And he was definitely wanting his child to be of his belief system. And mom was just as fervent about her belief system. And the child had zeroed in on as I spoke with her various times about the variations in the belief system. It boiled down to bacon.

[Host 1]

I don't want to be. That's the first thing I was thinking. To me it might be a food based choice.

[Host 2]

It did. It boiled down to specifically bacon. And she did. And she was much older than this one year old. She was eight or nine when I first talked to her about it. I even testified about the bacon. And the judge even wrote it in her summation that she would hope that the parents would give each other the freedom to let the child express what she wanted on, on either side.

[Host 1]

And from my perspective, that's what it's all about. And it's just a short sighted thing that parents do. It's like they've never seen Footloose. If you try to force your beliefs on a child and you try to curb what they can or can't do, they're just going to rebel. So in this situation, the best thing that both parents can do is to provide a loving platform to give the information, to educate on both sides of it. And then when the child is an adult, the child will make a decision for herself that probably incorporates hopefully the best of both. But if one side is treating the other as heretical and forcing the child to choose sides, then she'll either choose a side to the detriment of the other and herself or she'll choose neither and leave them both behind.

[Host 2]

That could be. And little girl in the, in the Beckett story, you know, she really, really enjoyed attending services with both parents. And she did almost every Sunday attend the opposite services. And I thought it was really sweet how much she did seem to enjoy certain parts of each of the rituals at the different belief systems. As long as she got to eat bacon, she was happy.

[Host 1]

Well, there's so much potential comfort there too, from the different rituals. I have fear for this child as she gets older and sort of the campaign I can imagine this dad being on to try to convince her that Christianity is wrong or whatever else instead of letting her sort of discover for herself and. But again, I guess from dad's perspective, it seems like an unfairly waged war.

[Host 2]

It's several against him. I think it's the way he looks at it. I do find some hope in his statement that while I don't agree with their beliefs, I also don't want to tell my daughter how foolish I think they are. She loves them and will obviously look up to her mother and grandmother as she grows up. That tells me that no matter how strongly he believes in their foolishness, he does see how important the bigger picture is of her love for them and that he hasn't, I think, already told his daughter how foolish that he sees that belief system.

[Host 1]

You know what, you're exactly right. That's a great piece of hopefulness in there. I think also he was maybe venting a little bit and how he did the post, because when he summarized it, he did his tldr at the bottom there that Too Long didn't read. And he said, as a non believer, what are some tactics you use to teach your child to think independently about religious beliefs? So that is a great expression, a great question, and that doesn't have any of the same sort of tone as the rest of his post.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

And so I think he was working through the emotion in the post and then when he thought, how do I sum this up? What I really think and what I'm really doing. It was, I think, a nicely worded legitimate concern.

[Host 2]

And that one touched up a spot on me. I grew up the only child of a minister in a very restrictive and in particular, as he would call it, sect of Christianity. And as such, my parents did not want me to think independently ever about our religious beliefs. And while I questioned many of them, especially the. The more daily practical kinds of applications, I was never voicing it aloud because I didn't want to seem to be in any way opposing my parents. And as the preacher's kid didn't voice them, of course, at a Sunday school class or anywhere like that. But as, as I got older, older, I even went from my undergraduate degree to that particular denominational college because my parents didn't want me to be exposed to other belief systems even at that age. And at that point I was still going along to get along with my parents. And then I went to a state school for my graduate training and on purpose took a lovely class called Transpersonal Human Development where I got to listen to reel to reel tapes, believe it or not. Also dating myself there of Timothy Leary and Aldous Huxley and Baba Ram Dass and some really interesting people from the 60s and 70s that I'd never heard of before. While I lived under a rock at that point and we didn't have a television. It was. I finally did get my exposure to and education in, you know, certain things like that. But I was not encouraged. So through the years it filled me with a desire to experience other religious beliefs. I visited mosques in different parts of the world and I duck in every church I can. I go by when I'm traveling. You know, I just really want to see how Greek Orthodox and just, I. I've just been totally thrilled by them and how my spirit responds to the different places of worship that I go to. I have a very similar response to each one of those places. So I would hope for this child, this little baby that she is, and to answer his question, that she is allowed to experience other religions with an open mind and her father will have an open mind to her doing so.

[Host 1]

Let's hope. I think there, like you said, there is reason for hope on this.

[Host 2]

Thanks for listening. If you'd like to leave questions, comments or concerns, please email podcastoparentacademy.com and please remember to rate, review and subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or wherever you listen.