NOLA D.A.: ARREST NOEM, HOMAN, FOR CHILD TRAFFICKING - 4.28.25

Summary

Podcast Summary: Countdown with Keith Olbermann

Episode: NOLA D.A.: ARREST NOEM, HOMAN, FOR CHILD TRAFFICKING - 4.28.25
Date: April 28, 2025
Host: Keith Olbermann
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

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Main Theme Overview

In this edition of "Countdown," Keith Olbermann delivers a searing political commentary centered on the alleged illegal deportation by immigration authorities of U.S. citizen children from New Orleans under the Trump administration. Olbermann passionately calls for local prosecution of key government figures (including ICE officials, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, and President Trump) on charges including kidnapping and child trafficking. The episode expands to a broader critique of authoritarian overreach, attacks on the judiciary, and the chilling effects of political intimidation, followed by segments on language, current events, a "Worst Person in the World" roundup, and an anecdote about interviewing scientist Carl Sagan.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The New Orleans Deportations and Call for Prosecution

• Subject: Olbermann demands that Orleans Parish D.A. Jason Williams indict Trump administration officials for kidnapping and child trafficking.
• Incident Details:
  • A two-year-old U.S. citizen (VML) from New Orleans was deported to Honduras with her mother.
  • Circumstantial evidence indicates the mother may not have wanted her child deported; this may be a cover story by ICE ("Trump administration lie").
  • No hearing, legal representation, or proper process afforded to the family; the child’s father was allegedly cut off while seeking legal help.
  • The ACLU confirmed more similarly affected: two mothers and three children (all U.S. citizens), including a pregnant woman and a four-year-old with stage-four cancer, deported without consultation or medication.
• Moral and Legal Outrage: Olbermann labels the actions "child trafficking" and argues it is the duty of the local attorney general, as a Democrat, to act.
• Quote:

  "Because Trump and Nome and Lyons and Homan and the agents involved...kidnapped a two-year-old child, a native of this country...And Friday they deported her, renditioned her, in fact, to Honduras..." (04:00)

• Call to Action: Williams should indict and arrest the perpetrators, if only to signal resistance to federal overreach.
• Quote:

  "Indict them and have them arrested, preferably dragged into court in New Orleans by their feet. More practically, indict them and issue warrants for their arrest..." (06:05)

2. The Broader Assault on Due Process and the Judiciary

• Judicial Intervention:
  • Chief Judge Terry Dowdy, a Trump appointee, tried to intervene but “learned by the time he tried to talk to the mother...the plane she was in was already...‘above the Gulf of America.’”
  • He scheduled a hearing to address concerns of the government deporting citizens “with no meaningful process.”
  • Expression of gratitude for the judge’s unexpected resistance.
• Parallel with Milwaukee Case:
  • References the arrest of a judge in Wisconsin for not complying with an ICE detainment order—a move Olbermann characterizes as “paranoid fever dream” tactics.
• Quote:

  "Judges, the backbone of our nation...Bondi said, quote, ‘they are deranged...we will come after you and we will prosecute you.’" (11:44)

• Critique of Political Intimidation:
  • GOP threats against judges and lawyers.
  • Use of threats to chill advocacy and deter defense of the persecuted.
  • Expression of resolve: “These will fail. We will not be scared. We will be enraged. These will fail.” (15:11)
• Dire Warning:
  • As authoritarian tactics rise, Olbermann warns Republicans: “...if [the world’s religions] are not wrong, you are all going to hell.” (10:33)

3. Trump Administration’s Broader Authoritarian Project

• Trump’s Psychological Profile:
  • Dissects Trump’s media interviews, especially a bizarre TIME Magazine Q&A, highlighting Trump’s historical misunderstanding and obsession with his personal nemeses (Obama, Clinton, Biden).
  • Notable segment parsing Trump's invented catchphrase "tapping me along", suggesting possible cognitive decline or isolation.
  • Quote:

    "I have never before heard the phrase ‘he’s just tapping me along.’ ...That’s from a language only Trump has ever heard." (28:08)

• Administration’s Scare Tactics:
  • Firing officials for attending Democrats’ events.
  • Investigations into opposing donors and platforms (e.g., Act Blue).
  • Propaganda accusing defense lawyers and politicians (like AOC) of siding with criminals and terrorists.
• Media and Institution Critique:
  • Laments “corporate journalistic failure,” acquiescence by major media figures and institutions.
  • Warns of the chilling effect—delays and hesitation give Trump the time to “do as much damage to this country as possible.” (17:35)

4. Trump’s Delusions and the Disconnect from Reality

• Disregarding the Supreme Court:
  • Trump administration ignores a unanimous Supreme Court ruling on a family separation case, with Trump showing ignorance or denial in media interviews.
  • Time Magazine Interview Exchange: Trump doesn't recall or understand basic founding democratic principles.
  • Memorable exchange about John Adams’ quote (22:00).
• Ukraine and Putin:
  • Trump’s incoherent commentary blaming Biden for the Ukraine war, displaying confusion and self-contradiction in public social media posts.
  • Olbermann dissects phrasing and signals in Trump’s posts, noting further descent into self-isolation and delusion.

5. Worst Persons in the World Segment

• Target 1: Trump
  • Ridicules Trump for installing giant flagpoles at the White House and his supporters' sycophantic praise.
  • Quote:

    "He is installing two 100 foot flag poles at the White House to further ruin the landscaping...he’s paying for them himself. That must be billions." (39:05)

• Target 2: Ed Martin
  • Trump’s U.S. Attorney pick, who praised then denounced a Nazi sympathizer during his confirmation process.
  • Olbermann lampoons Martin’s ignorance and the grotesque overlaps in Trump’s orbit.
• Target 3: Bill Maher
  • Criticizes Maher's hypocrisy for chastising Larry David’s Trump-Hitler analogy after having made near-identical comparisons previously.
  • Quote:

    "[Bill Maher:] ‘First of all, it’s kind of insulting to 6 million dead Jews...’ But he himself made the comparison to Hitler in 2015." (43:02-44:28)

6. Personal Anecdote: Interviewing Carl Sagan

• Nostalgic Reflection:
  • Olbermann recounts being a 19-year-old sportscaster at Cornell when Carl Sagan requested to be interviewed by him (and only him) after winning the Pulitzer Prize—Sagan was a fan of Olbermann’s sports coverage.
  • Describes the shock and humility of the encounter; reflects on Sagan’s wit, openness, and the joy of an unexpectedly reciprocal sense of admiration.
  • Quote:

    "He wanted to do an interview only with me and only live." (62:39)

  • Regret at never actually taking Sagan’s class because it was held at 9 a.m.—“I didn’t want to get up that early. Still true.” (69:54)
• Lessons Learned:
  • Good interviews sometimes come from a lack of time to prepare; focus on listening and genuine curiosity.
  • Sometimes, one is as important to the interviewee as the interviewee is to them.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• “It is child trafficking, Mr. Attorney General. People need to be arrested, Mr. Attorney General, that is your job, sir, and you are a Democrat. Therefore you are not a Trump whore.” – Keith Olbermann (05:20)
• “His bullies need to be metaphorically kicked in the groin...because the United States of America is now officially kidnapping its own infants, ones born in this country.” – Keith Olbermann (05:32)
• “Judges, the backbone of our nation...they are deranged. We will come after you and we will prosecute you.” (quoting Pam Bondi, critiqued by Olbermann) (11:44)
• “These will fail. We will not be scared. We will be enraged. These will fail.” – Keith Olbermann (15:11)
• “I have never before heard the phrase ‘he’s just tapping me along.’...That’s from a language only Trump has ever heard.” – Keith Olbermann (28:08)
• “First of all, it’s kind of insulting to 6 million dead Jews...” – Bill Maher on Piers Morgan, critiqued by Olbermann as hypocrisy (43:02)
• “He wanted to do an interview only with me and only live.” – Olbermann on Carl Sagan (62:39)
• “No [I didn’t take the course]. The answer...was the course met at 9 o’ clock in the morning and I didn’t want to get up that early. Still true. You make crazy decisions when you’re 19.” – Olbermann (69:54)

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Important Timestamps for Major Segments

• Federal deportation allegations & call for local prosecution: 02:34 – 09:16
• Attack on the judiciary / authoritarian overreach: 09:16 – 17:44
• Dissection of Trump’s delusions & bizarre interview responses: 18:55 – 30:41
• Worst Persons in the World segment (Trump, Ed Martin, Bill Maher): 37:47 – 46:45
• Carl Sagan interview anecdote / reflections on fame: 49:20 – 69:54

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Structure and Tone

Olbermann’s tone is fiery, direct, and unjustifiably outraged, mixing dark humor, sarcasm, and incisive historical analogies. The episode powerfully blends legal, moral, and personal perspectives; it is at once a broadside against authoritarianism and a deeply personal window into Olbermann’s philosophy as a commentator and interviewer.

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This summary captures the central arguments, Olbermann’s most pungent lines, and context for the episode’s notable segments—making it accessible and engaging for anyone who hasn’t listened.

Transcript

[Christina Quinn]

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[Keith Olbermann]

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[Keith Olbermann]

Countdown with Keith Olbermann is a production of iHeartradio. Orleans Parish District Attorney Jason Williams must indict and issue arrest warrants for the White House ICE henchman Tom Homan and his boss, ICE Director Todd Lyons and his boss, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, now with eight action dress up outfits and for that matter, for her boss, President Donald Ted Bundy. Trump the charges Attorney General Williams must bring someone estimated There could be 27 different charges include kidnapping of a United States Citizen, deprivation of 5th and 14th amendment rights, and child trafficking. Because Trump and Nome and Lyons and Homan and the agents involved, and in fact the entirety of Trump's government of the Undead by the undead for the Undead kidnapped a two year old child, a native of this country, a native of Louisiana, a native of New Orleans. And Friday they deported her, renditioned her in fact, to Honduras because they were sending her Honduran born mother there and the mother allegedly wanted the child with her. Although there is mounting circumstantial evidence that this is untrue, that this is a Trump administration lie designed to cover up the fact that somebody disconnected a call from the mother to the child's father as he frantically began to talk about getting lawyers involved. No hearing, no lawyers, no ethics, no responsibility, no morality, no attempt to verify whether a note about the mother's intent written in Spanish, was actually written by her, or even that it exists. Not even time for the father to talk to the mother for more than one minute before Trump's Gestapo broke virtually every law and violated virtually every word of the Constitution. And the toddler, identified only by her initials, vml, was not alone. Two mothers and three young children were disappeared out of New Orleans late last week, according the ACLU of New Orleans.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

The ACLU says all are U.S. citizens.

[Keith Olbermann]

The ACLU says one of the children, 4 years old, has a rare form of cancer in stage four, and the child was deported without medical consultation and without their medication.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

The ACLU says one of the mothers is pregnant.

[Keith Olbermann]

It is child trafficking, Mr. Attorney General. People need to be arrested, Mr. Attorney General, that is your job, sir, and you are a Democrat. Therefore you are not a Trump whore.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

His bullies need to be metaphorically kicked.

[Keith Olbermann]

In the groin because the United States.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Of America is now officially kidnapping its.

[Keith Olbermann]

Own infants, ones born in this country.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And with the full rights of citizenship and sending them to foreign countries on hearsay.

[Keith Olbermann]

And you, Mr. Attorney General, are an.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Official of the government of the 53rd largest city in this country and one.

[Keith Olbermann]

Of your constituents was just kidnapped and.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

She'S two years old and you goddamned better do something about it.

[Keith Olbermann]

Indict them and have them arrested, preferably.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Dragged into court in New Orleans by their feet. More practically indict them and issue warrants for their arrest, knowing full well that dress up Barbie Gnome won't ever be seen in Louisiana again if you do this, nor will the others, but you can drag in the local ICE goons and even if the whole thing gets thrown out in two hours, you will have at least done something to indicate that democracy is going to fight back. And after we have seen that Trump's fascists are not just fascists, they are worse than we expected, you will show we are not going to continue to roll over as the degenerates in ICE now reportedly go on to a military base and grab a servicemen's immigrant wife while she is on duty at sea. And while the Kilmar Abrego Garcias and the gay hairdressers and the two year old New Orleans girl known by the initials VML and the four year old New Orleans girl with cancer get disappeared like we were living in Chile in 1973. If the Trump administration of Nazi adjacents can make up a law to allow them to walk into a Wisconsin courtroom and arrest a local judge because she would not hand over someone who was there in her courtroom to receive actual American justice, hand that person over to a bunch of armed thugs, then the ICE thugs in New Orleans are fair game for arrest. As is the leadership, as is the preening witch Gnome, as is the psychopath at the head of the dictatorship.

[Keith Olbermann]

And whoever arrested the Milwaukee judge should themselves be arrested for obstructing a legal proceeding and menacing an officer of the court. Just consider the raw facts of the abduction of VML as if it were in the prism of inside the Trump culture, an innocent two year old American girl stolen by her Honduran mother and taken to Honduras and nobody stopped them. They would indict Hillary Clinton in an America where the judges are subject to arrest by ICE as part of Stephen Miller's paranoid fever dream that we are under attack by by by anybody. Then GNOME and Trump and the rest of these shit stains are also subject to arrest as part of a gang, a kidnapping gang, a human trafficking gang. And by the way, obviously the case in New Orleans would be better handled by the Louisiana Attorney General Liz Morrill. But all you need out of her bio to abandon all hope is former Executive Counsel to Governor Bobby Jindal. I don't know, Madam Attorney General. Surprise me.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

The judge in the case of vml.

[Keith Olbermann]

Who tried to stop this horror, who protested this, who publicized this is Terry.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Dowdy, the chief Judge of the U.S.

[Keith Olbermann]

District Court of the Western District of Louisiana.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And he is not only a Trump appointee, but he is such a Trump.

[Keith Olbermann]

Appointee that he wrote that he had.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Become aware independently that by the time he tried to talk to the mother in the case, the plane she was in was already, quote, above the Gulf of America. Even he gets it. Judge Doughty also scheduled a hearing for 16 May in the interest of dispelling our strong suspicion that the government just deported a US citizen with no meaningful process. And just for that, tears of gratitude. Well, in my eyes. But no Trump. Don't do anything about the US born child with cancer you just sent to Honduras without even a hearing. Don't do anything about vml, no arrest the judge in Wisconsin trying to keep people, any people, I don't give an F where they were born, out of the hands of these sadists you have.

[Keith Olbermann]

Given uniforms and weapons to.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Don't question that. Republican Senators. Don't question that. Speaker Mike Closet's Johnson. Don't question that flag waving imbeciles kidnapping American babies with cancer and arresting the judges who try to stop such moral cannibalism. As you and Trump march towards ethnic cleansing in America, remember Republicans, as this unfolds before the rest of us stop you, your only hope is that all or most of the world's religions are wrong. Because if they are not wrong, you are all going to hell.

[Keith Olbermann]

Of course, as ever, the cruelty, the moral cannibalism is the point. After Judge Dugan in Milwaukee was arrested, the second choice Attorney General, the one who by the Trump terrorists own deputy definition is a DEI hire, Pam Bondi, went out and said of America's judges, the judges, the backbone of our nation and the group that includes the shrinking subset of those officials who actually put the law first in this country. Bondi said, quote, they are deranged. She insisted we are sending a very strong message. We will come after you and we will prosecute you. We will find you. It amazes me even now as I read this, that Pam Bondi and the others who have applauded the arrest of one judge and the placing of symbolic crosshairs over the lives of all the other judges in the country, including the ones they like. Bondi and the other idiots have not once considered that the road they are on the road to complete authoritarianism where all the judges serve only if they rubber stamp all the Trump commandments. That road goes across countless bridges that may or may not support them, or may or may not still be there, or may or may not even exist.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

What happens to you, Pam Bondi?

[Keith Olbermann]

What happens to you, Kash Patel? What happens to you, Tom Homan, if you don't get to the other side of that God damned bridge? What is the one thing you are guaranteed to see when Trump falls and America is restored to the United States of America? What is the one thing you will see? A judge.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I haven't spent a lot of time in courtrooms in my life, thank goodness. But I did once sue the company.

[Keith Olbermann]

Part owned by the former Vice President of the United states for the $50.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Million he and his co owner owed me. And one of the many pieces of advice one of my lawyers gave me that led to such a gloriously successful outcome there was don't piss off the judge.

[Keith Olbermann]

But for now, of course, pissing off.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

The judge is Pam Bondi's purpose, the first purpose of her useless, bleached 56 years long or more life. Pissing them off and moreover, scaring them. Scaring the judges by arresting one in Wisconsin. Scaring their own staff by firing their senior trade official, George Bogdan, because he went to Miles Taylor's wedding six years ago. Scaring political opponents by ordering the investigation of the pro democracy fundraising outlet Act Blue. Scaring would be donors to the campaigns of actual American candidates. By twisting the fact that ActBlue's site successfully caught and rejected foreign donation attempts and turning that into an international influence plot. As opposed to Trump just taking billions directly in international influence through his companies and the gyrations of the stock market.

[Keith Olbermann]

Scaring those who would defend those persecuted by ICE and the other Trump brown shirts by having rapacious idiots like Sebastian Gorka claimed that defending them is aiding and abetting criminals. Scaring the actual leaders of the opposition party like Representative Ocasio Cortez, by virtually accusing them of the crime of defending the accused and having your own propaganda outlets literally accuse them of that. And scaring those who would speak out against Trump in any way by circling back to that idiot Gorka's claim that to do so is siding with the terrorists. These will fail. These will fail. We will not be scared. We will be enraged. These will fail. And the bondies and the gnomes and the Gorkas will be charged for whatever laws they may have broken. And they will get defense attorneys. And we will not try to prosecute the defense attorneys. And they will get defenders and we will not try to prosecute those who defend them in public. And they will be charged by the people they are now trying to scare. And they will come before judges, hopefully. Judge Dugan. I would settle for Judge Doughty. But their real threat here is that in the time before they fail, they will succeed in chilling the debate. Those for whom the consequences can be real and devastating may hesitate to fight back on behalf of justice and the.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Law and the nation.

[Keith Olbermann]

In a time of corporate journalistic failure and cowardice and greedy judges, in a time of political assassination threats by the right and that other most dangerous group.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

To the far right.

[Keith Olbermann]

Two and four year old Americans from New Orleans. The Trump terrorism bet is that the.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Hesitation will be enough to give Trump the time to do as much damage.

[Keith Olbermann]

To this country as possible, because that.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Is how he should be perceived and reported on.

[Keith Olbermann]

It doesn't matter if he's doing this.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Damage on behalf of another nation. It doesn't matter if he has reached the 1984 stage and decided the object of power is power. It doesn't matter if he's doing it because he's insane. It doesn't matter why he's destroying the nation. It only matters that he is destroying the nation. And depending on institutions and individuals that would defend that nation to fold. And if you don't think they will fold, ask Zuckerberg and Bezos and the Washington Post and Columbia University and ABC and Bob Iger and cbs, which is reportedly going to let a mediator judge Trump's lawsuit this week. The one demanding bribes. I'm sorry, the one demanding damages because the 60 Minutes interview of Kamala Harris damaged him in the election that he checks notes won.

[Keith Olbermann]

It remains irrelevant, but it is explanatory and could be useful. The other possibility, that Trump is destroying this nation because those around him are not letting him see the new Associated Press poll where his approval is 39 and his net approval disapproval is now 19 points underwater and all the specific policy measures are underwater. And he is instead being told he really is saving this nation. And his semi human mind seems to be able to process the value of being perceived as savior. That they are telling him these things over here in the real world we call this lying to him was underscored anew by this batshit crazy interview with Time magazine. I mean, batshit crazy even in the trump world of 24, 7. Batshit crazy. I could parse this for literally weeks, but the Time magazine interview suggests that the primary rule in the new Trump crazy machine is to tell him whatever is likeliest to keep him from yelling at you.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

The Supreme Court ruled 9 nothing.

[Keith Olbermann]

That in the case of Kilmar Abrego.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Garcia, the administration had to facilitate and effectuate the Maryland father's return with a deadline of three weeks ago today.

[Keith Olbermann]

Since it has done the exact opposite. Trump was asked by Time magazine if.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

He is therefore disobeying the Supreme Court, which he is. That's not what my people told me. They didn't say it was. They said it was. The nine to nothing was entirely different. Clearly, they never told him about the facilitate and effectuate part, only that the court did not literally use a phrase like we order Trump to bring him back to the United States immediately. These moments of clarity, clarity about how they are handling Trump, not clarity from Trump. For God's sakesthey fall from the time interview like dust falling off the top shelf. One final question, Mr. President. You were showing us the new paintings you have behind us. You put all these new portraits. One of them includes John Adams. John Adams said, we're a government ruled by laws, not by men. Do you agree with that, Trump? John Adams said that. Where was the painting? It's right here. We're a government ruled by laws, not by men. Well, I think we're a government ruled by law, but, you know, somebody has to administer the law. So therefore men, certainly men and women certainly play a role in it. I wouldn't agree with it 100%. We are a government where men are involved in the process of law. And ideally, you're going to have honest men like me.

[Keith Olbermann]

John Adams said that. Where was the painting? Oh, my God. On the bright side, he seemed to know who John Adams was. Quote, you were harshly critical of what you called the weaponization of the Justice Department under Biden. You recently signed memos. Well, sure, but you wouldn't be if this were Biden. Well, first of all, he wouldn't do an interview because he was grossly incompetent. Time we spoke to him last year, Mr. President. Trump, huh? Time we spoke to him a year ago. Trump. How did he do? Trump, you can read the interview yourself.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Alderman.

[Keith Olbermann]

As an aside, I wouldn't bet on that. Trump. Not too good. I did read the interview. He didn't do well. He didn't do well at all. He didn't do well at anything. And he cut that interview off to being a matter of minutes. And you weren't asking questions like you're asking me. Rule one of Trump. There's always a nemesis when he has lost, failed, or has no other answer. Just bring up the nemesis. When Trump started to go crazy and run for president as revenge. It was against Obama. So everything was Obama. Then he realized sometime during 2016 that he wasn't running against Obama. He was actually running against somebody named Hillary Clinton.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Who knew?

[Keith Olbermann]

So everything became Hillary. Then he realized Biden was the frontrunner for 2020, not Hillary. And since then, especially since he lost to Biden, since Biden humiliated him, and since, therefore, most of Trump is forever frozen in that moment trying to undo the loss, therefore, nemesis is now Biden. This came up again about Ukraine. You remember his pathetic bleeding at Putin, which didn't work. I'm not happy with the Russian strikes on Kyiv. Not necessary and very bad timing. Vladimir, stop. Vladimir, stop.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Having failed to settle Ukraine in a day. Or let's see, counting the count, 99 of them. He had to blame Biden. Let me parse this next thing for the Biden part and other notable inferences.

[Keith Olbermann]

This is the truth.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Social post ready about Ukraine, quote, this is Sleepy Joe Biden's war, not mine. All right, well, there's the Biden part already. It was a loser from day one and should have never happened and wouldn't have happened if I were president at the time. I'm just trying to clean up the mess that was left to me by Obama and Biden and what a mess it is. With all that being said, there was no reason for Putin to be shooting missiles into civilian areas, cities and towns over the last few days. Even Chuck Grassley had written, president Trump, please put the toughest of sanctions on Putin. You ought to see from clear evidence that he is playing America as a patsy. Back to the Trump tweet. It makes me think that maybe Putin doesn't want to stop the war. He's just tapping me along.

[Keith Olbermann]

CBS News further shat its pants yesterday, putting the Russian foreign minister Lavrov a snake on Face the Nation. Seriously, on Face the Nation. I don't know if that was part of the Sherry Redstone bribe deal with Trump or if that was Trump's reply from Putin. If Lavrov basically saying F U Trump was Putin's way of saying, I didn't like that post, which ended, as you will recall, with him suggesting that maybe Putin has to be dealt with differently through banking or secondary sanctions. Too many people are dying. This could be, in summation, a setup for Putin to allow Putin to propose his own deal in Ukraine. Still utterly unacceptable, but maybe 10% less unacceptable than all of his current demands. Whereupon Trump says he got Putin to make a deal. Owen Zelensky rejected it. But ultimately, perhaps the most interesting thing in that entire post, perhaps the most frightening thing in that entire post, perhaps the most revelatory thing in that entire post, is that one phrase in there makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to stop the war. He's just tapping me along. I am 13 years younger than Trump, but I am from the same metropolitan area. The generation before me grew up here as his generation before him did. I went to a private school that played sports against the military school they were forced to send him to. Instead of the juvie home, juvenile detention home, I went to an Ivy League university, as he did, and for vastly different reasons. I probably actually went to fewer classes than he did. In my defense, I graduated in seven semesters. Also, I cut a lot. And like him, I have lived in New York or the immediate suburbs for roughly 53 years, including the last 24 uninterruptedly. I have also studied and loved language.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And slang and slanguage for the whole of my life.

[Keith Olbermann]

And I have never before heard the phrase he's just tapping me along. Nor can I find any reference to it anywhere.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I thought, well, maybe that's a British expression. It is not. Maybe it translates from the German or the Russian. It does not. I mean, it could be a regional variant specific to Jamaica Estates in Queens, New York. It could be a variant of the slang meaning of tapping. Tapping is a little sleeker sounding version of boinking and related terms. But I don't know. I've never heard this phrase before. There's no evidence, if you do a search for it, that anybody has ever used this phrase before. I mean, anybody. Maybe it's pre Internet. Maybe it's a famous phrase from Queens in 1957. But he writes it with the same confidence that everybody knows what he means in which he writes all his otherwise simple, childish communications. There is no doubt in his own mind that everybody knows. Everybody says 10 times a day, he's just tapping me along, Martha, you're just tapping me along. You're just tapping me along, Officer. I think, and I will so far unsuccessfully hold my glee until this is confirmed, that Trump has in fact manufactured this phrase inside his disordered, damaged mind. If you remember, Covfeve, C O V fe FE was a major typo, or maybe narcolepsy, or maybe he was typing it out on Twitter, slipped, fell his head, hit send the end. But tapping me along, that's from a language only Trump has ever heard. I think his illness or injury or malformation or whatever it is, might, might, might have just reached the stage where he is making up his own words.

[Keith Olbermann]

Speaking in tongues, personal neologism, aphasia, accelerating mental or intellectual malfunction. You know that moment when your brain starts tapping you along. I have once been in the company of a relative who was suffering from an acute attack of bipolarity and began to make up his own words. It is one of the more terrifying things to have ever witnessed and even he did not say, you're just tapping me along. Headlines on day 99 of America held hostage the Trump dictatorship if the Canadian Liberals beat the Conservatives in the election Today, remember to thank Trump and thank the fact that the creepy Conservative candidate has some kind of weird iguana thing going where he can't fully open his eyes in the MAGA Answer to the White House Correspondents Dinner Saturday like you needed to answer that. The scum drank cocktails with what passes for witty names in their world. None of them were named just tapping me along, although I would have given them credit for doing that. One of the drinks was called Leakers and Liars, meaning the MAGA were drinking. What happens when you take a leak fitting? And yes, Trump fell asleep at the Pope's funeral upright on camera with his rubbery lips beginning to slide apart and.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

This week's Melania did not wake him. Well, given the choice, would you.

[Keith Olbermann]

Also of interest here in this all new edition, Bill Maher comes back at Larry David saying Larry's implication that going to the White House for dinner with Trump was like going to the Old Channel Chancellery for dinner with Hitler. Bill says you should never invoke Hitler and says Larry had insulted 6 million dead Jews. Which might be an answer if Bill Maher had not made the exact same comparison on his own show in 2015. That's next.

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[Today Show Host]

Good morning. Welcome to today.

[Today Show Co-Host]

From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it.

[Keith Olbermann]

All on as the forecast calls for.

[Today Show Co-Host]

Football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Today Show Host]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Today Show Co-Host]

Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

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[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

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[Keith Olbermann]

This is COUNTDOWN with Keith Olbermann. Still ahead on this all new edition of Countdown, somebody wrote something in fond remembrance of Dr. Carl Sagan the other day. And it reminded me, and I had forgotten about this, that 47 years ago last week he won the Pulitzer Prize. And when our radio station at Cornell called him on the off chance he'd do an interview with us, since he was also at Cornell, he said, yes, but only if it's with your sportscaster. Keith I was 19, totally unknown, and he became the first famous person I ever interviewed. Why he asked for me, explained next in things I promise not to tell first. Believe it or not, there's still more new idiots to talk about. The roundup of the miscreants morons and dunning Kruger effect specimens who constitute the latest other worst persons in the cosmos world. Let me dedicate this to Press Secretary Caroline Levitt. They are talking about promoting her to a cabinet position. I do not think it is a coincidence that this is because perhaps her first name contains the letters of the word lie and her last name contains the letters of the word lie. Here's a tip to the news. Stop airing her so called press briefings.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Live, exceeding even the Sean Spicers and Dana Perinos of this world. She is lying well over half the time.

[Keith Olbermann]

It is pure propaganda and racism and idiotic and moral cannibalism as I suggested earlier.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Kudos to the BBC which after 90 plus days of carrying these things lives seems to have figured out this whole idea and now just replays later on anything she says that is either relevant or true. It's usually about a 12 second clip. The domestic networks continue to run it live, at least on occasion because it is the cheapest possible live programming. And in say MSNBC's case. Do you prefer this or 45 minutes of Katie Tur? I have already submitted my answer to the judges anyway. The bronze. Worse, it goes to TRUMP President Scrooge McDuck himself. He does something stupid or cheap or both, and his stupid cheap supporters go crazy over it. He is installing two 100 foot flag poles at the White House to further ruin the landscaping.

[Keith Olbermann]

For all I know he intends to put them one atop the other, but he's paying for them himself. Oh boy, say the talking skunks of Trumpsboro, Oklahoma. He's paying for them big flagpolies himself. That must be billions. Even a 100 foot flagpole sells for only $29,000 retail. So President Scrooge McDuck is shelling out 58 grand.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Wow.

[Keith Olbermann]

Big spender if he ever pays the bill. Listen, 100 Foot Flagpole Company of Alexandria, Virginia or wherever. Get it in cash up front. I'm just saying maybe. Maybe. Kristi Noem and 8 Action dress up sets. Maybe she has it in cash in.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Her wallet, in her bag.

[Keith Olbermann]

Their runner up Werser Ed Martin, nominee for Gulag Meister of the Capital Military District. No, I'm sorry. Nominee for U.S. attorney in D.C. and serving now as Acting U.S. attorney in D,C.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Let me just read this headline about.

[Keith Olbermann]

Ed from the Jewish Forward. Quote exclusive Trump nominee apologizes for Praising Nazi Sympathizer While Awaiting Senate confirmation hearings. U.S. attorney Pick Ed Martin said he.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Was unaware of Timothy Hale Cucinelli's views.

[Keith Olbermann]

And white supremacist Ties which he now denounces.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

That headline, trump nominee apologizes for praising Nazi sympathizer while awaiting Senate confirmation hearing. But he did he do it in the hallway, by the way?

[Keith Olbermann]

I'd like to apologize. I have to go in here in a minute, but I'd like to apologize. That's a headline. New York Times.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

One of the keys to never letting on that you are one of the baddies is to never ask any questions about the other baddies, nor believe any of the answers that you are avoiding in the first place. This guy, Hale Cusinelli, that Ed Martin first praised, then denounced while awaiting confirmation, then said he knew nothing about him. That's the stupid looking kid who tried to pose on the Internet as Hitler with the little mustache and the hair combed that way and the hand at his chest. But instead of looking tough or like a candidate for the Trump cabinet, he just wound up looking like one of the rejected actors in the Producers. And he might sink. Ed Martin. Good work, baby. Dolphins. But our winner. Same topic yet again, Bill Maher. Another way to avoid the consequences for doing something really, really, really stupid is to change the narrative and pull a bit of Lenaboutism against your critic. Maher went back on the air and dragged Al Gore, for whom I worked the living definition of the cliche, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Dragged Gore into defending Maher's dinner with Herr Trump. Maher also attacked Larry David for his soon to be Pulitzer Prize winning satire, My Dinner with Adolf by trying to make Larry appear like he's an anti Semite. No offense, Larry, but Bill would have more success trying to make you appear like you're a Boston Red Sox fan. In an interview with Piers Morgan, which I assume Bill did just in case he had not destroyed his career by going to have dinner with Trump. Maher said of Larry's epic evisceration of.

[Keith Olbermann]

Him, quote, first of all, it's kind of insulting to 6 million dead Jews. It's an argument you kind of lost just to start it. Look, maybe it's not completely logically fair, but Hitler has really kind of got to stay in his own place. He is the goat of evil. We're just going to have to leave it like that. I don't want to make it constantly personal with me and Larry. We might be friends again. Bill doesn't want to make that constantly personal, but he just accused Larry David.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Of insulting 6 million dead Jews because.

[Keith Olbermann]

That'S not personal, it's comedy quoting again, I can take a shot and I can also take it when people disagree with me. That's not exactly the way I would have done it. Again, the irony. Let's go back to what my original thing was. There's gotta be a better way than hurling insults and not talking to people.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

If I can talk to Trump, I.

[Keith Olbermann]

Can talk to Larry David, too. Wait, wait, wait. So.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

So.

[Keith Olbermann]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You don't want to hurl insults. So you said Larry was insulting 6 million dead Jews. That's not an insult. That's not personal. It's not an insult. It's comedy gold. Another this wasn't my favorite moment of our friendship. I think the minute you play the.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Hitler card, you've lost the argument. Come on, man.

[Keith Olbermann]

Hitler Nazis. Ahem.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

From the transcript of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, 18 September 2015, in which Bill Maher says, I try to resist comparisons to Hitler because there's only one Hitler. He broke them all. But you know what? If you're stirring up xenophobic hate among.

[Keith Olbermann]

An angry, humiliated population and talking about.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Rounding up minorities, it's a little Hitler adjacent.

[Keith Olbermann]

Talking about Trump.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And if you say, oh, he didn't.

[Keith Olbermann]

Compare Trump to Hitler 10 years ago, he just called him Hitler adjacent, that's not comparing him.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And then he responded to Larry by.

[Keith Olbermann]

Saying, I think the minute you play.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

The Hitler card, you've lost the argument. If you think those are not exact matches. From the transcript of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher three weeks earlier. August 28, 2015, Bill Maher talks about Trump's rhetoric about China. Again, this is nearly a decade ago. The anniversary party at the Bill Maher set will be August 28th of this year. On the show on August 28th, 2015, Marr says, quote, that's the way Hitler talked about the Jews. See? As Bill has just demonstrated, yet another way to avoid the consequences for doing something really, really, really stupid is to have completely forgotten you did the exact same thing yourself on your own show in 2015. Bill, I know you claim to have done a lot of drugs, but that much drugs, you don't remember 2015, Bill. When somebody else compares Trump to Hitler, they've immediately lost the argument and insulted 6 million dead Jews. But when I compare Trump to Hitler, it's avant garde, edgy humor. Look how far ahead of the curve I was. Today's other worst person in the world.

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[Today Show Host]

Good morning. Welcome to today.

[Today Show Co-Host]

From back to school to tackling your to do list, the Today show is your best start to the day. It's a new season and every morning we're here to help you take it.

[Keith Olbermann]

All on as the forecast calls for.

[Today Show Co-Host]

Football all across the country, blockbuster stars, live concerts and so much more. Wake up to where it's all happening.

[Today Show Host]

We're getting back to all of it and the best way to start is together.

[Today Show Co-Host]

Watch the Today show weekday mornings at 7am on NBC.

[Ryan Seacrest (Propane Ad)]

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[Keith Olbermann]

To the number one story on the countdown and a change in mood and a quick break. And the other day somebody mentioned the work of Dr. Carl Sagan. The name may ring A bell. At one point, Carl Sagan was easily the most famous scientist in America. Up there with Dr. Salk of the vaccine, up there with Freud. You name the scientist. Carl Sagan was probably more famous because Carl Sagan was on TV every couple of weeks. He was also, and that was the joke. He was also a professor of astronomy and related sciences at Cornell University. When I was a student there. I did not take his course. I suppose I could have gotten into it. As it turned out, he knew who I was. I'll get to that story in a moment. This is about interviewing Carl Sagan. I have interviewed a lot of famous people and I don't think of myself as a good interviewer. I don't think of myself as an interviewer.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I have to do it.

[Keith Olbermann]

And I used to do three or.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Four interviews a night on my television.

[Keith Olbermann]

Shows, but I've never been comfortable doing it. I often don't have any questions. I'm often not interested in what the.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Guest has to say.

[Keith Olbermann]

That's why there has never been an actual guest here on this podcast. I will break this precedent someday. We are approaching the third anniversary as I record this, but I haven't done it yet, have I?

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Also, it's easier if it's just you.

[Keith Olbermann]

Then you can say at the end of it, all of it was, was my fault. I've interviewed, as it turns out, six presidents, none of them while they were.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

President, either before or after.

[Keith Olbermann]

And for a long time I used to say that my first president was.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Ronald Reagan, who I interviewed in 1992.

[Keith Olbermann]

On radio for ESPN about a football player who'd suffered a damaging injury and a neck contusion that left him briefly, thankfully, briefly paralyzed. And the head of ESPN radio was.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Not that sophisticated sports fan who thought.

[Keith Olbermann]

That we could appeal to a non.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Sports audience on sports stations around the country on the weekends by having Ronald Reagan on. You forget in the context of the time 1992, Ronald Reagan got elected.

[Keith Olbermann]

Yes, because he was a reactionary governor from California and he'd been governor two times there.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Yes, he was a famous TV guy who hosted a rather low grade TV show that appealed to low grade people. And he was only the first of two presidents who could be said to have done that.

[Keith Olbermann]

And he was a sportscaster and he.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Was an iconic figure from a couple of sports movies. The one about the Gipper. The Gipper is from a sports movie. It's complete nonsense, the story about the dying player, George Gip, but it gave him a sports context. So I interviewed Ronald Reagan and I had to tell the story in my question. So he knew what I was talking about. That's 1992. He'd only been out of office three years, and he was already in significant decline that I had to help him in the interview. Fortunately, it was prerecorded. I interviewed, though, as it turned out, and I've told the story and don't.

[Keith Olbermann]

Want to go through it again.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I interviewed Trump in 1983, and I will recall this part of it and tell it to you again, that the cameraman on that shoot, I ran into him maybe in 2016 or 17 after not seeing him for decades, and he said, remember when we interviewed that guy?

[Keith Olbermann]

And I went, sure do.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

He goes, remember what you said after we did the interview? And I went, no. He said, well, we were walking back to the truck and you didn't say anything. And we were really worried because that wasn't you. You always said something all the time. I went, yeah, that's me. And he said, when we got back to the truck, you finally set down the sticks the tripod, which I was carrying, and he said, you said, what the f was wrong with that guy? And that's all you said. Got that one right. I later interviewed, in order, Obama when.

[Keith Olbermann]

He declared his candidacy or just before he declared his candidacy in 2006.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

He was a live guest on Countdown, Obama and Biden at a Democratic semi debate in 2007. Biden separately during the campaign in 2008. I interviewed Bill Clinton several times in 2006, 7, 8, and I think 10. And Jimmy Carter.

[Keith Olbermann]

I met at the Democratic national convention in 2008 and interviewed him the first of many times. And as I've mentioned with great pride. The late Jimmy Carter was a Countdown junkie. He and his family used to watch every night and would rearrange their schedules and sometimes DVR the show so they could all watch at the same time. And they would often pause it during the commercials so they could have group discussions with people who weren't with them about what they just heard. If you ever need reassurance that you know what you're doing, take it from Jimmy Carter. I vaguely and viscerally understand why the people at Fox News line up and Newsmax and the others line up and so desperately respond to Trump's support and recognition of them. I understand it in a visceral sense. There is a certain element of egotism involved in this. I felt it myself. But 100% or so. I've interviewed countless actors and actresses and movie stars and comedians and George Carlin My personal. I don't know that he's the most famous person I ever interviewed, but I interviewed Robert Redford once, and he was a viewer. And the indescribable happened. We're having a great conversation about the environment. Robert Redford is at his home in Colorado, and we're coming towards the end of the show at 9 o', clock, and he's answering and he goes, excuse me. And I hadn't said anything. Did somebody say, rap? The producer? Who? I will. I know her name, but I'll leave her out of this. The producer actually got in Robert Redford's ear during his final answer. And rather than let him go 30 seconds long so that the show would bleed over into the 9 o' clock hour, he. She tried to get Robert Redford to shut up. Otherwise, a great interview. And all the athletes. Ali, three times, I think Mickey Mantle. I've told that story. The interview that ended with the comment that he made about how if he'd.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Known he was going to live, he.

[Keith Olbermann]

Would have done better and tried harder.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And I said, you did pretty well.

[Keith Olbermann]

And he said, with the most remorse I ever heard anybody say anything.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I could have done more.

[Keith Olbermann]

Oh, my goodness.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And I knew when I did that.

[Keith Olbermann]

Interview at Christmas time, 1985, that that would be the last soundbite in the obituary I would do for him whenever he passed. And it was a decade later, Willie Mays, who answered the phone in the.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Voice of his own housekeeper straight out.

[Keith Olbermann]

Of Gone with the Wind, he did an impression of Hattie McDaniel. I will not repeat it. And one of the greatest regrets I ever had was that radio inter. I used to follow the old rules.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Which is don't record till they tell you it's okay.

[Keith Olbermann]

So I did not record him answering the phone. Everybody else would hit play and record while the phone was ringing.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I waited until he said it was okay.

[Keith Olbermann]

And I missed having a copy of Willie Mays as Hattie McDaniel as his.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Own maid, and then dropping out of that voice in mid sentence and going, this is Willie. Ted Williams I interviewed in Boston. I mentioned Ali. I once had to do Ali on the radio, and I had to basically repeat what he was saying. And Ali nodded along like I got that right.

[Keith Olbermann]

And I actually saw him several times.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Thereafter, and we had friendly conversations, one of which he never actually said anything out loud.

[Keith Olbermann]

I just sort of heard him, I.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Think, through esp, and I don't believe in esp, but if it happened in any context, that was the time it happened. So I've done a lot of interviews. But to this day the most famous person I ever interviewed, relative certainly to myself, was Dr. Carl Sagan. The Cosmos series in the early 80s was one of the first American created in depth, serious and entertaining scientific series in television history. It was one of the most popular shows in television. Even though it was not on NBC, ABC or cbs. It was on pbs. It made Carl Sagan, who was already a kind of glib and TV genic guy, it made him into a superstar who appeared on the Tonight show with Johnny Carson every couple of weeks.

[Keith Olbermann]

That was the joke in the late 70s at Cornell. It was, yes, Dr. Carl Sagan, the head of the astronomy department at the Tonight show, who visits us here in his satellite office in Ithaca, New York. Well, that's what we, we all thought about. I didn't take the class. I'd taken an astronomy class in high school. And I could not shake the reality that as great as it was taught by one of my favorite high school teachers, a man named Randy McNaughton. The class started, if I remember correctly, at 11:25am and the first thing he would do would be shut off the lights. And this is a bunch of kids who probably didn't eat a big breakfast, including me, who were waiting for lunch. I don't know how many times I fell asleep during that class. Not because it was bad, but it was cause I was so hungry. I was basically briefly starving. You wouldn't know it to look at me, but I was. And I just didn't want to take it. And knowing me at the time, you know, I wasn't going to take a tough course. What's the point of that? I'm here to get the degree. So in any event, I went and looked this up. It was Monday, April 17, 1978, and I was at WVBR at Cornell in late afternoon preparing my sportscast in our big time 30 minute world newscast. And that we did every day and was a pretty good newscast World report. And I did the sportscast most nights as the sports director of the station. And I'm just sitting there looking at the wire copy and looking at the local news that we might put in the sportscast. And it was an ordinary day at the beginning of spring this time of year in 1978. I was 19 years old, didn't have aspirations to do anything other than sports. I had done news for the station.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I had done live reporting for the.

[Keith Olbermann]

Station in news and in sports. But I didn't have any aspirations to be an interviewer or anything Else, when the newscaster on duty that day says, are you up for interviewing Carl Sagan? He just won the Pulitzer Prize. And I went, sure, and get President Carter on the phone. Like he'd do an interview with me. No, no, we're serious.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And I said, what do you mean you're serious?

[Keith Olbermann]

Well, he just won the Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction. I said, well, good for him. And we just called his office, you know, just to see if he'd do an interview.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And he said, I'll do an interview.

[Keith Olbermann]

But it must be live. And is your sportscaster there today? And, you know, we went, what? Our sportscaster? Yes, Keith. Is he. Is he in the studio?

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I like him.

[Keith Olbermann]

He seems to get it. That was what I was told. Carl Sagan said. And they relate this to me.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

And I went, oh, come on. He goes, no, apparently he listens to.

[Keith Olbermann]

The station all the time. He loves the rock and roll and he. And he likes you doing the sports.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

He says he's not a big sports.

[Keith Olbermann]

Fan, but he enjoys your work.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Well, again, I can't possibly describe how much space there was between us in terms of renown. I was, in April 1978, a year and three months away from getting my.

[Keith Olbermann]

First paycheck for my first full time.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Job in broadcasting, which would pay me at an annual rate of $16,500. I had not made $10,000 in broadcasting in my entire life. To this point. I was pretty well known at the radio station. There were occasionally, maybe once every other month, fan letters, but literally the pile of them was less than 10 high.

[Keith Olbermann]

In my entire career, I'd been paid.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

To cover Cornell football games by United Press International for $15 a game. And trust me, I was underpaid. But it was pretty good money. $15 to go. Watch that. But Carl Sagan, Carl Sagan knew Johnny Carson, was on his show all the time, had done not just the Cosmos series, but series after series for pbs. Follow ups they sold. In those early days, they sold bootleg copies of Cosmos, which would appear, I guess, in 1980. So he was already famous before Cosmos when this story takes place. And he'd done countless shows for PBS already, and as I said on the Tonight show, all the time joking about the origins of the universe. And he wanted to do an interview only with me and only live.

[Keith Olbermann]

And I said, well, when are we gonna do it?

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

As soon as you get in the.

[Keith Olbermann]

Booth, he's on hold.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

So one of the things I did discover in that moment of what should have been panic was a sense of calm, which was okay, he won the Pulitzer Prize. What's the name of the book? Something about Dragons. The book was called the Dragons of Speculations on the Evolution of Human Intelligence. This was not his forte. His forte was the Cosmos. But Carl Sagan had won the Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction. And his first interview, as it turned out, his first interview, he hadn't called anybody else back yet. He hadn't called the Associated Press or CBS News. He wanted to talk to Keith Olbermann, the 19 year old sportscaster who he'd never met and in fact would never meet. And I got in the booth and they dropped a record. And whoever was the disc jockey said, we have some breaking news. Dr. Carl Sagan of Cornell has won a Pulitzer Prize. Keith Olbermann is here with an interview with him live on WVBR. And I went, yes, I am, Dr. Sagan, are you there? Yes, I am, Keith. It's a pleasure to talk to you. And he sounded excited by talking to me. And I then learned the other lesson, which is there is a possibility that you are as big a deal to the interviewee as he is to you. As unlikely as this fame gradient would have suggested. And it's still, to me, as I said, it's still, it's bigger than me interviewing Muhammad Ali because I was a professional in a field that was much smaller than it is now. And I was with the worldwide cable news network, cnn. I had some chops.

[Keith Olbermann]

This was basically Carl Sagan being interviewed by somebody who, who could have been a kid in his class but wasn't on his favorite radio station. I would have assumed that would have.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Been, I don't know, KMET in Los.

[Keith Olbermann]

Angeles or something, or at least knx. So we talked about this and I said, what do you think the impact is on our understanding of human evolution and the intelligence evolution of you winning a book that now will have a Pulitzer Prize sticker on it and be sold to people who don't know anything about it, but just you're buying it because it says Pulitzer Prize. And he brayed with laughter. He went, yeah, that was the first thing I thought of. Obviously it's gonna make me some more money. But my God, how many people will now read this book just cause it won this stupid prize? And he said he was shocked that it won this because he thought it was a good book and he enjoyed talking about the subject, but he'd never really seriously considered it until he'd been asked to talk about it a few years before, I think at the University of Toronto. And he went off on a riff and went, you know, I should study this and try to find out what would this make a good show. And this was part of the thing that I guess generated the big picture idea of cosmos and the evolution of the universe leading to the evolution of man and the evolution of man being dependent on the evolution of his own intelligence. So we must have gone on for 10 minutes and he was charming and funny and self deprecating. And I saw immediately that as good an interviewer as Johnny Carson was the key ingredient in the joyfulness and the fun of the Johnny Carson interviews with Carl Sagan was not some sort of great preparation on Johnny Carson's part, not some sort of great level of experience on Johnny Carson's part. But the fact that Carl Sagan liked to talk and was open and funny and listened to the questions carefully and.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Said things that were almost designed to let you come up with a follow up question.

[Keith Olbermann]

That was when I realized that one of the greatest processes for doing a good interview is to not have an awful lot of time to prepare for it. To have maybe no more than two or three questions in mind that you.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Can jot down in case you freeze. This will force you to listen to what the other guy is saying and then say, tell me more about that. This fascinates me.

[Keith Olbermann]

Whether or not it fascinates you is irrelevant. He wants to talk about it.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

He just told you so. So at the end of this interview I said, congratulations again and on everything.

[Keith Olbermann]

And please give my regards.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I don't know why I said this.

[Keith Olbermann]

Please give my regards to Johnny Carson the next time you are out there. This is one of the great ambitions.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Of my life, to be on the Tonight Show.

[Keith Olbermann]

Well, I'll see if I can arrange for you to be a guest. Ha ha ha ho ho ho. I was a guest on the Tonight Show. 25 years later, like to the day, it wasn't Johnny Carson, but it was still the Tonight Show.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

But the punchline to this is having discovered that one of the most famous professors at any American university In the late 20th century, maybe in the whole of the 20th century, Carl Sagan, one of the pioneers of cosmetics cosmetology, one of the guys who mainstreamed the whole idea of the big bang, one of the people who brought everything from physics to creationism together in one unified TV shtick, was a fan of mine. Having discovered this, having seen this, and knowing that his course was majors only, except by professor's permission, do you think I went to him or called his office? As I approached my last two semesters at Cornell in the fall of 1978 and spring of 1979, and said, hey, I'd love to take the course. Can't you have room for one more? I'll sit in the back. Do you think I did that? Having had, by the way, in case.

[Keith Olbermann]

I was worried about whether or not I'd pass, I know had a personal.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Relationship with the professor. I was his favorite sportscaster.

[Keith Olbermann]

I was his favorite person at the Cornell radio station.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I was the only person he'd do the interview with. He didn't want to talk to the.

[Keith Olbermann]

Newscaster, he wanted to talk to me. And when, by the way, I asked.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Him about the other condition that it be live, I said, can I use parts of this again later in an edited form so we can run the whole thing again? But I'd like to use. Oh, of course, it's you. You did a great job. Oh, my goodness. And of course, what would you do? That's four credits sitting out there. Even on the most basic, greedy, selfish level imaginable.

[Keith Olbermann]

Four gut credits with Dr. Carl Sagan.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Do you think I scheduled the course?

[Keith Olbermann]

No.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Can you guess why I did not schedule the course when I needed? By the way, wherever he fit into this, I had leftover requirements in the agriculture college in physics, in biology, and I forget, in chemistry.

[Keith Olbermann]

Those three areas.

[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

I needed four more credits in each of them. Do you think I took the course?

[Keith Olbermann]

No. And the answer to why I did not take the course and did not ever meet Dr. Carl Sagan, my fan. The course met at 9 o' clock in the morning and I didn't want to get up that early. Still true. You make crazy decisions when you're 19 years old and just trying to get out of Cornell in seven semesters. What can I tell you? I've done all the damage I can do here. I am remorseful that I never met him, though. Thanks for listening. Brian Ray and John Philip Chenale, the musical directors of Countdown, arranged, produced and performed most of our music. Mr. Chennaiale handled orchestration and keyboards. Mr. Ray was on the guitar's bass and drums. It was produced by TKO Brothers. Our satirical and pithy musical comments are by the best baseball stadium organist ever in the cosmos, Nancy Faust. The sports music is the olderan theme from ESPN2, written by Mitch Warren Davis, courtesy of ESPN Inc. Other music arranged and performed by the group. No horns allowed. My announcer today was the eternal universal traveler, my friend Stevie Van Zant. Wondering why there's no tape of me interviewing Dr. Sagan. I couldn't find it. It's there somewhere. Everything else was, as ever, my fault. My fault and Carl Sagan's for encouraging me. That's Countdown for today, day 99 of America held hostage just 1,364 days until the scheduled end of his lame duck and lame brained term. Unless Musk removes him sooner or the actuarial tables due or the attorneys general due, the next scheduled countdown is Thursday. As always, bulletins as the news warrants, remember, impeach Trump. It will not work now. It will, however, win the Democrats the midterms. If there are midterms and I want polling on a presidential recall vote. Let's put some pressure on here even if you can't have a presidential recall vote. Till next time, I'm Keith Olbermann. Good morning, good afternoon, good night and good luck. Countdown with Keith Olbermann is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Keith Olbermann (Co-narrator/Commentator)]

Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.

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[Keith Olbermann]

December 29, 1975 LaGuardia Airport the holiday rush.

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There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene.

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