Ep 5 of 11: Jaw-dropping

Summary

CounterClock Episode 5: "Jaw-Dropping"

Released: November 22, 2024 | Host: audiochuck

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Introduction

In Episode 5 of CounterClock, titled "Jaw-Dropping," investigative journalist Delia D'Ambra delves into a harrowing tale of recanted testimony and wrongful convictions. This episode uncovers the intricate web of deceit and the relentless pursuit of truth by those wrongfully imprisoned for the murder of Nathaniel Jones in 2002.

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Background of the 2002 Murder Case

On November 15, 2002, a tragic event unfolded with the murder of Nathaniel Jones. Five young men—Christopher Bryant, Jamal Toliver, Rayshawn Banner, Durrell Brayboy, and Nathaniel Cawthon—were convicted largely based on the testimony of Jessica Black, a 33-year-old woman who was a key witness in the trials.

Narrator (02:26): "In late October 2019, Jessica Black was 33 years old, a grown woman... Her days of sneaking over to Southside Winston Salem to ride around with friends and smoke weed were far behind her."

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Jessica Black's Role and Initial Testimony

Jessica Black came forward during her senior year of high school to testify against her friends. Despite her young age and tumultuous personal life, her testimony was pivotal in securing convictions against the defendants.

Jessica Black (02:26): "Once you get older and you're able to actually look back on it and you're able to go back over everything that happened and go through the transcripts."

However, by 2019, Jessica began to question the veracity of her past statements, leading to a shocking recantation of her testimony.

Jessica Black (03:43): "Everything I said on the stand, I can tell you them, anybody, all that shit's not true."

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The Defendants and Their Sentences

Following the 2004 and 2005 trials, the defendants faced varying sentences:

• Christopher Bryant and Jamal Toliver were released in February 2017 and January 2018, respectively, after serving their full terms.
• Durrell Brayboy was released in January 2018 but tragically became a murder victim less than two years later.
• Rayshawn Banner and Nathaniel Cawthon remain incarcerated, sentenced to life without parole.

Narrator (05:19): "In the early years of their incarceration, they and their co-defendants wrote letters to post-conviction defense attorneys and innocence organizations asking for help. But they rarely heard back..."

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The Innocence Inquiry Commission Investigation

The North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, established to reinvestigate wrongful convictions, took interest in the case after receiving a persistent application from Christopher Bryant in 2015.

Narrator (06:19): "The commission had subpoenaed nearly every scrap of paperwork produced in the case... The plan was to have all of that evidence tested using DNA technology, something that had never been done."

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Jessica's Recantation and Its Impact

Jessica Black's decision to recant her testimony was a turning point in the case. Her recantation suggested that the original convictions were based on false statements, indicating systemic flaws in the investigation and trial processes.

Jessica Black (19:27): "There was a room full of... he was so aggressive and hollered at me. He was hollering so much that he was spitting. And he was in my face. I mean, I could feel it. Spit in my face."

Her admission not only questioned the integrity of the original trials but also fueled the Innocence Inquiry Commission to take a closer look at the convictions.

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Darrell Brayboy's Murder and Its Aftermath

Durrell Brayboy's release from prison in January 2018 was short-lived, as he was murdered less than two years later in a local grocery store following a dispute with his cousin, Joseph Hanna.

Jamal Toliver (10:31): "...he had to spend his whole life in prison just to come home to get killed. And he went to prison for something he didn't even do. He didn't even get to live his life."

Darrell’s untimely death added another layer of tragedy to the case, deeply affecting his co-defendants and Jessica Black.

Durrell Brayboy (14:30): "...there is a plan for everybody out here. Everybody has a plan. You don't know what it is, but it is. And it may have been his time to go."

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Interviews with Legal Representatives

Delia interviews key legal figures representing the surviving defendants.

• Chris Muma (26:21): Executive Director of the North Carolina Center on Actual Innocence, who also represents Rayshawn Banner and Nathaniel Cawthon. She emphasizes the innocence of her clients and her commitment to justice.

  Chris Muma (29:24): "They were let down by their first attorneys. They were let down by their first post-conviction attorneys. They've been let down by the system."

• Mark Rabel (30:35): Defense attorney for Jamal Toliver, highlights the unethical interrogation tactics used on minors.

  Mark Rabel (30:50): "It's like the whole tragedy of children being basically tricked into making false confessions."

• Brad Bannon (31:43): Attorney representing Christopher Bryant, underscores his client’s genuine innocence.

  Brad Bannon (32:02): "He is a genuine human being."

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The Commission's Hearings and Possible Outcomes

With Jessica Black's recantation, the Innocence Inquiry Commission proceeded to a formal eight-member panel review. The commission's rigorous process involved extensive evidence re-examination and testimonies from key witnesses, including the now-cooperative Jessica Black.

Jamal Toliver (33:47): "And the Innocence and Query Commission took it up."

The hearings, held over five days in March 2020, aimed to reassess the innocence of the four surviving defendants, potentially leading to exonerations or new legal strategies.

Jessica Black (21:58): "They lost out so much with their family. That's horrible. That's really, really horrible. And that shit's my fault."

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Conclusion and Teasers for Next Episode

Jessica Black's courageous step to recant her testimony not only questions the wrongful convictions of five young men but also exposes deeper issues within the justice system. The episode concludes with anticipation for the outcomes of the Innocence Inquiry Commission's review.

Narrator (35:22): "That's next time on CounterClock. Episode 6 Jurisprudence."

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Notable Quotes Recap

• Jessica Black (03:43): "Everything I said on the stand, I can tell you them, anybody, all that shit's not true."

• Jamal Toliver (10:31): "...he had to spend his whole life in prison just to come home to get killed."

• Chris Muma (29:24): "They were let down by their first attorneys... let down by the system."

• Mark Rabel (30:50): "Children being basically tricked into making false confessions."

• Brad Bannon (32:02): "He is a genuine human being."

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Key Takeaways

• Systemic Flaws: The case highlights significant issues within the criminal justice system, including coerced testimonies and inadequate legal representation.
• Innocence Inquiry Commission's Role: Demonstrates the importance of dedicated bodies in re-evaluating wrongful convictions.
• Personal Tragedies: The human element, exemplified by Durrell Brayboy's murder, underscores the far-reaching consequences of miscarriages of justice.
• Hope for Exoneration: The persistent efforts of legal teams and the Innocence Inquiry Commission offer hope for the innocent individuals seeking justice.

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CounterClock continues to explore and shed light on unresolved mysteries, advocating for truth and justice in every episode. Stay tuned for Episode 6: "Jurisprudence," where Delia D'Ambra examines the legal intricacies of wrongful convictions.

Transcript

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[Jessica Black]

Once you get older and you're able to actually look back on it and you're able to go back over everything that happened and go through the transcripts.

[Narrator]

Her days of sneaking over to Southside Winston Salem to ride around with friends and smoke weed were far behind her, a faded page in the scrapbook of her life. The two murder trials she testified at were two for good reason.

[Jessica Black]

That shit scares the hell out of me. I couldn't imagine my son going through shit like that.

[Narrator]

After getting pregnant her senior year of high school, she'd given birth to her own little boy and tried her best to keep the past in the past. Start fresh. But with age came hardships. She developed a chronic disease which kept her bouncing from job to job and unable to pay her bills. Some months she'd have a place to live, but other times she wouldn't. On a Monday afternoon, 10 days before Halloween in 2019, her life was a bit in the pits. But she'd agreed to sit down in a conference room with two women who'd contacted her about the murder of Nathaniel Jones from nearly two decades earlier. As a blinking recorder sat in front of her, Jessyca began to speak. And the words she uttered were not what the interviewers expected to hear.

[Jessica Black]

Everything I said on the stand, I can tell you them, anybody, all that shit's not true.

[Narrator]

The crime happened on November 15, 2002.

[Durrell Brayboy]

That was a Friday.

[Chris Muma]

That day, did you ever see any.

[Durrell Brayboy]

Of the five defendants go from Bellevue.

[Jessica Black]

Park over to where the victim's house.

[Durrell Brayboy]

Was and leave you at the park?

[Jessica Black]

Absolutely did not.

[Chris Muma]

That did not happen.

[Jessica Black]

No, ma'am.

[Narrator]

Jessica recanting her prior testimony wasn't the result of one specific event, but rather a series of events in her own life and in the lives of the five young men she'd previously sworn under oath were cold blooded murderers. Let's rewind for just a second, because the sequence of events that led up to Jessyca being in that conference room in October 2019 and saying what she said is critically important. After her friends were convicted in 2004 and 2005, based mostly on her testimony, Jessica carried on with her life. She didn't go to prison or face any consequences for her alleged role in what happened to Mr. Jones. She disappeared into the life she led before all this. And no one heard from her. Meanwhile, Christopher, Jamal, Rayshawn, Durrell and Nathaniel began serving their time in prison and filed appeals. But lost. Years went by, and then a decade passed until eventually, in February 2017, after serving their full sentences, Christopher and Jamal got to go home. Eleven months later, in January 2018, Darrell was released after fulfilling his entire sentence. Nathaniel and Rayshawn stayed put, though, because they'd been sentenced to life in prison. In fact, it's where they remain to this day. In the early 2010s, the brothers got a small glimmer of hope when the US Supreme Court decided that any minor who'd originally been sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole could be resentenced and afforded the option of parole. However, the likelihood that either man will ever get out early is slim to none. I interviewed them a few months ago in their respective prisons, and neither of them seemed particularly excited about their next parole hearing. So yeah, they're sitting tight. In the early years of their incarceration, they and their co defendants wrote letters to post conviction defense attorneys and innocence organizations asking for help. But they rarely heard back, and in some cases they were denied representation altogether. Christopher Bryant was especially diligent on this front.

[Jamal Toliver]

Even though I sat in all them years, it wasn't a year that went by that I wasn't sending out letters to clinics and law firms and stuff. You know.

[Narrator]

What Christopher didn't know until after he got out of prison in 2017 was that somewhere in all those requests he'd sent into the void while serving his time, one had found a home with the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission. That organization is a neutral, truth seeking entity that was created by the North Carolina General assembly in the mid aughts to reinvestigate claims of innocence and determine if a person has been wrongfully convicted of a felony crime. If you're an OG counterclock listener, then you've heard me talk about this entity before. In season two, this same commission had the opportunity to evaluate Clifton Spencer's case for the murder of Stacey Stanton, but declined to. They've never revealed why, but it's likely because their vetting process is extremely tough. Data as recent as 2023 states that in the commission's lifetime, they've received more than 3,600 applications from inmates who claim they were wrongfully convicted. To date, the commission's website states, it has closed more than 3,500 of those applications and only exonerated 15 people. Like I said, extremely tough. But in the spring of 2015, there must have been something about Christopher's application that prompted the commission to probe a bit further. Because they did. And three years later, in 2018, they were still at it after receiving an application from Nathaniel Cawthon. By the fall of 2019, the commission had subpoenaed nearly every scrap of paperwork produced in the case from both the Winston Salem Police Department and the Forsyth County District Attorney's Office. We're talking tens of thousands of pages in all. They'd also taken into custody the physical evidence from the crime scene. Some items were still with the police department, but anything that had been presented at the 2004 and 2005 trials were across town in storage at the Forsyth County Superior Courthouse. The plan was to have all of that evidence tested using DNA technology, something that had never been done. The commission staff also notified Rayshawn and Jamal that they could put forth innocence claims with the organization, too, which they did. And from there the investigation was officially moved into a formal inquiry phase, a step most cases don't even get to because, like I said earlier, the ax has usually fallen. By that point. The last base the commission needed to cover was notifying Darrell Brayboy, but tragically, that would never happen.

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[Narrator]

Wednesday, August 28, 2019 is a day that will always be etched into Jamal Toliver's mind. That afternoon he'd made plans to hang out with Darrell. Neither of them had been out of prison very long and they just started to reconnect in the real world. You know, picking back up where they'd left off as teenagers.

[Jamal Toliver]

Even though we got locked up at 15, anytime like we interacted with each other, we still like those kids. He was coming to see me the day of like he was at Food Line getting his baby some milk and I lived right up the street. He was coming to see me next. Then I got the phone call and I ran out my house up there to Food Line and they had already took him away.

[Narrator]

31 year old Darrell had become a murder victim himself. He'd been with his Girlfriend and newborn daughter at a local grocery store when one of his cousins, a guy named Joseph Hanna, got into an argument with him in the parking lot and stabbed him multiple times. The men's squabble had to do with Joseph forgetting to return some kids clothing to Darrell and his girlfriend in the assault. Darrell suffered stab wounds to his stomach, chest, hands, and shoulder and tried to stay alive at the scene, but unfortunately, he later died at a local hospital. Joseph fled from the supermarket but didn't get far. A few days later, police caught up to him and he confessed to the whole thing. He eventually pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter and remains in prison to this day. News that Darrell had been murdered less than two years after getting his freedom back hit each of his co defendants differently. Here's Jamal and Christopher.

[Jamal Toliver]

One of the best people I ever met. You would love him. You will love him if he was here. He'll have you sitting right here laughing right now. His smile like, yeah, yeah, hurts. Jamel texted me and told me he had got stabbed. I thought it was just like, oh, he got in a little incident, but then he texted me later and was like, man, he gone. And then right there, it was just like. And then his sister called me crying and said the same thing. So I knew it was real. So it was. It was messed up, though, that he had to spend his whole life in prison just to come home to get killed. And he went to prison for something he didn't even do. He didn't even get to live his life.

[Narrator]

Rayshawn learned the news about Darrell from a prison guard.

[Nathaniel Cawthon]

One of the sergeants called me into the office, was like, you know, your co defendant passed away. I'm like, nah, you ain't talking about one of my co defendants. He was like, yeah, Darrell, brave boy. So I'm like, nah. He was like, yeah, I'm for real. So he pulls it up on the computer and shows me, but I still didn't believe it. So I went home and called my mom, and that's what she told me. Like, the red man stabbed. It hurt. That hurt. That was like, really? One of my best friends, if not my closest friend.

[Narrator]

Nathaniel found out last during his interview with me. Even five years after the crime, it was apparent that losing Darrell still deeply affected him.

[Durrell Brayboy]

We always liked to laugh. We like to joke with each other. So Braywald was cool, man. Yeah, that was my boy right there. They wrote me a paper. They sent me a paper in the mail. Brave boy was the one I like. I sheltered beyond my brother man, that hurt me, man. I out of all the people, him.

[Narrator]

The first news headline that announced Durrell had been killed read man stabbed to death outside food line was convicted of killing NBA player Chris Paul's grandfather in 2005. Most of the article was about the 2002 murder of Mr. Jones and Durrell's attachment to it, which made sense for local media to do because they had to find some way to situate the story for their readers. But what the news organizations didn't know was that Jessica Black had seen that headline and it pierced her heart.

[Durrell Brayboy]

I immediately broke down and started crying. They said he had just had a baby and he was murdered for something so stupid, so petty and by his family. And it made no sense. And the boy had just got out. He had just got out. And yes, that weighed on me because that was a horrible. And I understand there is a plan for everybody out here. Everybody has a plan. You don't know what it is, but it is. And it may have been his time to go. But at the end of the day, that boy had done been in prison all them years. Finally get out, not out. In no time. He don't even get to live life. He didn't even get to live life.

[Narrator]

A few months prior to reading about Durrell's death, Jessica had been contacted by a persistent sports reporter from the HU Houston Chronicle named Hunter Adkins. Hunter was from Texas and was working on a piece about Chris Paul, who at the time was playing for the Houston Rockets NBA team. He'd been digging into Chris life story for a while and had gone through documents related to the defendant's case, including their interrogations and trial transcripts. Hunter believed he had a much bigger story than some run of the mill sports feature. So for a long time, he'd relentlessly tried to get in touch with Jessica to land an interview. But she always blew him off. After months of deleting his DMs on social media and ignoring his texts, she finally decided to, as she put it, get him off her back. She agreed to meet with him at a pancake restaurant in Winston Salem. She came with apprehension, and Hunter came with an armful of documents. Documents that Jessica read through and became angered by. She says that back in the day, prosecutors and police had led her to believe that they had hard evidence against her friends. Stuff that was separate from her testimony that proved they did it. She didn't know otherwise because she'd been kept in the dark at the trials about anything other than getting her own story straight on the witness Stand. At the time, she knew she'd not been truthful on the stand. But she figured, hey, if the cops have other proof, then who cares if I lie to get out of trouble? For example, remember when investigators tested her car for blood and didn't find any? Well, according to her, they twisted that information and told her something completely different when she was 16.

[Durrell Brayboy]

They told me that they had skin DNA. They didn't find any blood, but they had skin DNA. We got this evidence, we got this evidence, we got this, this, this, this, and this. They lied. They lied and said they had all this evidence and they'd never had it. That's not right. The fact that they, they know for a fact they lied.

[Narrator]

The more she learned from reading documents in the case, especially the transcripts of her friend's interrogations, which she'd never seen before, the more she began to open up to Hunter and reveal what things had really been like from her vantage point as a teenager.

[Durrell Brayboy]

You have 14 and 15 year old kids, and then you have me, you have a 16 year old, most of which have never been in any kind of trouble. Don't know what the hell's going on. And then you have these, these guys, these men who come in and are like, oh, but we know. And they confuse you. They know what they're doing. They're. They're trained in interrogation tactics. They're trained to do that. They know what the hell they're doing. They were able to get in there and do and say what they wanted to and can't prove to you otherwise. Cause who are they gonna believe? They're gonna believe you or they're gonna believe Detective. They're not gonna believe the kid. That's gonna be a wrap.

[Narrator]

Over the course of their pancake breakfast and several subsequent phone calls, Jessyca decided to come clean to Hunter about everything that had been weighing on her. Jessyca continued to communicate with Hunter despite him never publishing his eventually leaving the Houston Chronicle. A few months later, in October 2019, is when she got a call from the two women asking her about Mr. Jones murder. The women were investigators with the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, and they had no idea at the time that Jessica had already recanted to Hunter. But because she had, she was more than prepared to come clean to the investigators, too. The commission's interview with Jessica was a formal deposition. They'd come armed with a subpoena, but they wouldn't need to apply any pressure. She was a dam ready to break. Over the course of two days, she explained how she'd been intimidated by police detectives during her interrogation. Here's what she said about the experience during the deposition.

[Jessica Black]

There was a room full of. Of officers or detectives or whatever. I mean, they were all around. And there was this one. I can't remember his name. I remember what his hair looked like, and I remember how he came across. And he was so aggressive and hollered at me. He was hollering so much that he was spitting. And he was in my face. I mean, I could feel it. Spit in my face. And I was crying, and he had me broke down. And I was like, this is what we did. I saw him walking down the road. You know, I picked him up and went on and tell him what it was. That was. No, you're lying.

[Durrell Brayboy]

You're lying.

[Jessica Black]

You're lying. I swear to God, it's like they meant to just break you down, just to break you, period. I mean, your spirit, your mind, everything, they got their way so I could get the hell out of there.

[Narrator]

And even when she'd wanted to take it back, she was told she couldn't.

[Jessica Black]

They constantly threw at me throughout the whole. Whole few years of the trials and stuff. They can always come back and charge you, Ms. Black. They can always come back and charge you. I didn't want to go back to jail. I didn't want to go to jail. I was scared to death. And I'm like, I'm scared I was going to get locked up. I was scared that if I come and I tell y'all stuff and. Or talk to whoever and tell them something and contradict everything I said then that I'm going to jail.

[Narrator]

She said several things had contributed to her finally feeling comfortable enough to break her silence. And those were talking to Hunter Adkins, maturing as a person, and seeing the recent headlines about Darrell's murder.

[Jessica Black]

When Darrell got stabbed, when he passed, the first headline in the damn paper was, boy involved in the Jones. That happened. That was what, 17, 18 years? That's 70 years ago. That should not be the headline of that.

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That should not be why.

[Jessica Black]

What he's known as, when you're reporting his death, none of them may be involved, but they still serve time in prison because of what the hell I said. And that's horrible. That's really, really horrible. And that shit eats away at you. They lost out so much with their family. That's horrible. And that shit's my fault.

[Narrator]

She also told the commission investigators how she'd been coached by the district attorney's office prior to and during the 2004 and 2005 trials to stick to a version of events that would make her confession seem more believable, even though she knew it was all a lie.

[Jessica Black]

Like, I changed color to tape three damn times because I was trying to guess at what color, because they wouldn't tell me the color tape. So I figured I was like, okay, well, it was duct tape. Next time I talked to the people, well, you said it was gray, and it wasn't gray, Ms. Black, you sure it was gray and it wasn't some other kind? So then they got me thinking, I'm like, oh, well, maybe it was black, you know? And I would just keep going and I'd keep guessing along until I kind of got the sense that it was the right one, that that's the one they was looking for. Like, if I went to go say the story or go over it or refresh with them, obviously, I mean, I was leaving bits and pieces out that I had put in there after giving them a statement for like the third or fourth time, and each one of them different from the last, which to me, like, if I'm. If I'm having to change my statement that many times to try, like, I don't care what nobody says they knew what the hell they was doing. One thing I have learned being an adult, you don't have to try and remember the truth. You will always remember that if you can't remember the other little shit that you said, especially in something that traumatic, something that important, that big to happen in your life somewhere there's some bullshit mixed up in there.

[Chris Muma]

How do we know that you are telling the truth now?

[Jessica Black]

You don't. You don't know. Cause I've already lied on Stan. But I have no, no reason to to try and help and benefit the boys. The only benefit I get from that is a fucking clear conscience is what I get.

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[Nordstrom Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. It's a season of wonder all the way. At Nordstrom, you'll find the best gifts for everyone you love, including tons of ideas under 100 and gift experts to help wondering what to Wear. They have everything from cozy styles to party perfect looks, along with freestyle help from their stylist. Plus, they'll help make your shopping easy with services like in store order pickup, gift wrap options, free shipping and returns, and more. Discover the wonder of the holidays today in stores [e-mail].

[Narrator]

After the innocence Inquiry Commission staff got that deposition with Jessica, they knew they'd reached a point of no return. Jessica recanting wasn't just jaw dropping. It changed everything about the case. Because if nothing she'd said to police in her interrogation in 2002 was true and nothing she'd testified to under oath at either criminal trial was true, then that was extremely strong evidence pointing toward Christopher, Jamal, Durrell, Rayshawn, and Nathaniel being innocent. Or at the very least, they'd not received fair trials. Unfortunately, because Durrell was dead, the commission couldn't consider his case because state law only allowed the organization to consider innocence claims submitted by a living person. But regardless, the path forward for the four surviving defendants was clear. The commission had to take the case to its next formal stage, an eight member panel review. And for that proceeding, Jamal, Christopher, Rayshawn and Nathaniel were appointed legal representation attorneys who had established careers and were, at the very least, willing.

[Chris Muma]

First name is Chris. Christine. Chris for Face to Face. Muma.

[Narrator]

Chris Muma. Another familiar name to some listeners. And that's because she was Clifton Spencer's lawyer, a key figure in Counterclock Season 2. Chris currently represents Rayshawn Banner and Nathaniel Cawthon. She's also the executive director of an organization called the North Carolina center on Actual Innocence, which fights for wrongfully accused and incarcerated people in the Carolinas. Ironically, without her, the Innocence Inquiry Commission quite literally wouldn't exist.

[Chris Muma]

I wrote the legislation that established it, so, you know, my familiarity with it goes back a long way.

[Narrator]

When I first started looking into this case, I noticed that Chris was the attorney on file for Rayshawn Nathaniel. So I called her up. It had been a few years since we'd talked, but right away she agreed to cooperate with my investigation. A few weeks later, I came by her office for an interview. She explained that she'd known about Rayshawn and Nathaniel's case for a long time. In fact, shortly after all the defendants first went to prison, her organization had tried to take on their cases. But a few barriers got in the way of that happening.

[Chris Muma]

Between 2008, 2009 and going into 2011, we had cases open with all four, except Rayshawn. Rayshawn didn't trust anybody.

[Nathaniel Cawthon]

I didn't trust her for like one minute. Like, it was because I kept hearing the same things over from different people, but I didn't trust her, not one bit.

[Narrator]

What made you not trust people?

[Nathaniel Cawthon]

This situation, my brother, my friends, it was just, I got cold. I was a bitter person at one point, young going up in prison. I ain't listen to nobody. I didn't care. Like, I didn't want to talk to nobody because I felt like I was going to be mean. So anybody who ever tried to get close to me, I will push you away.

[Narrator]

Chris staff also faced challenges in getting access to critical case materials and witnesses.

[Chris Muma]

We could not get an inventory of evidence from the district Attorney's office. We could not get access to their files, and Jessica would not speak with us. So we were in contact with Jessica. Letters went to her house, spoke to her mother, and at that point, she was still scared.

[Narrator]

Fast forward to late 2019, though, and circumstances had changed drastically. The records and evidence that the District Attorney's office had kept under lock and key for so long were now in the hands of the Innocence Inquiry Commission. And Jessica Black was talking. So Chris knew good timing when she saw it. Plus, she'd always believed Rayshawn and Nathaniel were innocent.

[Chris Muma]

Hopefully there's people listening who have raised children, and hopefully there's people who are not that far from being 15, 14 and 15 themselves. And to put themselves in the shoes of Rayshawn and Nathaniel at 14 and 15 years old, going through what they went through and being threatened and being lied to and being in fear and how easily that could happen. They were let down by their first attorneys. They were let down by their first post conviction attorneys. They've been let down by the system. But I would say that even though they're older and their age would define them as men, they are not men. Yet when I say they're innocent, they're not just innocent in the eyes of the law, they are innocent people. They are naive in some ways, you know, like, just they're still kind of innocent children.

[Narrator]

Jamaal Toliver was assigned defense attorney Mark Rabel, another heavy hitter in the post conviction space in North Carolina.

[Mark Rabel]

I'm a clinical professor here at Wake Forest School of Law and the director of the Innocence and Justice Clinic.

[Narrator]

Mark has practiced law for 44 years, but taking on Jamal's case was a new legal journey for him.

[Mark Rabel]

It was actually, I think, the first time that I'd represented somebody in a commission proceeding because they don't have that many that go to the full hearing stage. So it was late 2019 when I became involved in it. And what struck me initially was just the whole tragedy of children being basically tricked into making false confessions. I mean, you had like five guys, 14, 15 years old, lied to, threatened with the death penalty, tricked, basically, children tricked into confessing to murder by a combination of 17, at least, police officers.

[Narrator]

Next was Brad Bannon, who took on Christopher Bryant's claim.

[Brad Bannon]

I am a career criminal defense lawyer and I have been for 27 years.

[Narrator]

Like Mark, Brad had never represented someone whose case was going through the Innocence Inquiry Commission process. However, once he met Christopher face to face and reviewed his case file, he knew he was in it for the long haul.

[Brad Bannon]

I've sat with a lot of clients who claimed that they were innocent. Most of them were not. Some of them were. I have never spent time with a client who literally exuded in his face, in his voice, in his body language, in his resolve, innocence more than Chris Bryant. He is not a studied, careful, slick, polished package. He is a genuine human being.

[Narrator]

The lawyers were aware that their clients were going to be subpoenaed to testify in front of the commission's eight member panel. It wasn't even a question. Jamal and Christopher were free men, so they'd show up on their own. Rayshawn and Nathaniel would have to be brought in from their respective prisons. The attorneys were also made aware that Jessyca was going to testify and publicly claimed she'd been coerced into falsely confessing to police as a teenager, too. Other than that, though, no one knew what to expect.

[Mark Rabel]

We're pretty much in the dark. I mean, even the attorneys, they gave us a 30 minute summary of what the evidence would be, but no documentation, no reports or anything. So we're at the hearing. Basically. It's like, in some ways, like a discovery process for us. We know that they obviously think that these guys are innocent or they wouldn't be, you know, pursuing the case in front of the whole commission. So it was great curiosity for me.

[Narrator]

Everyone, including Winston Salem Journal reporter Michael Hewlett, was eager to see what commission staff had dug up over the course of their nearly five year long investigation. They get a lot of claims, thousands of claims, and only a small percentage.

[Jamal Toliver]

Of them get to a commission hearing. No one paid attention to them until.

[Narrator]

This thing broke, where Jessica Black recanted.

[Jamal Toliver]

And the Innocence and Query Commission took it up.

[Narrator]

And it's like, oh, wait, maybe there's something to this. Some of the first questions he and others were asking were on their face. Simple ones. Was their DNA. Did the commission have any unknown DNA profiles compared to anyone?

[Chris Muma]

We did.

[Narrator]

Did the crime lab issue a report?

[Chris Muma]

They did.

[Narrator]

Had any new suspects come on the radar?

[Chris Muma]

Three people who were suspected of committing robberies in the area.

[Brad Bannon]

I mean, that's not a coincidence. Who could ever believe that's a coincidence?

[Narrator]

And how would each defendant fare under direct questioning?

[Chris Muma]

Did you rob Nathaniel Jones?

[Durrell Brayboy]

No, ma'am, I did not.

[Narrator]

Did you kill Nathaniel Jones?

[Durrell Brayboy]

No, ma'am, I did not. I'm gonna get my chance.

[Jamal Toliver]

And that was my chance.

[Narrator]

The answers to all those questions and so much more would come out over the course of five days in mid March 2020. I remember watching her testify and she seem genuinely anguished.

[Brad Bannon]

You can almost feel her realizing that these kids are innocent and that her false testimony put them in prison. You can almost feel it.

[Jessica Black]

I think anybody in the whole wide.

[Durrell Brayboy]

World would say they didn't do this.

[Narrator]

That's next time on Counterclock. Episode 6 Jurisprudence. Listen right now, Netcredit is here to say yes, because you're more than a credit score. Apply in minutes and get a decision.

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