Episode 7: A History of Violence

Summary

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CounterClock – Episode 7: A History of Violence

Host: Delia D'Ambra
Date: May 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, investigative journalist Delia D’Ambra turns her attention to the months and years following the Lane Bryant murders in Tinley Park, Illinois, in 2008. The central theme is whether the killer was a one-time offender or part of a larger pattern of violent crimes. Delia uncovers an intriguing link between an unsolved string of suburban bank robberies, a violent 2008 police shootout, and a convicted felon named Raymond Maddox – who might be connected to the Lane Bryant case. The episode intricately unpacks Maddox’s criminal history, law enforcement’s pursuit of patterns and suspects, and the gaps left behind by a flawed criminal justice system.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Law Enforcement’s Search for Patterns (01:31–04:13)

• Theory: Police initially suspected the Lane Bryant murderer had committed similar crimes in the south suburbs, combing through unsolved violent incidents for patterns.
• Challenge: No clear, unique pattern was identified; cooperation between numerous suburban departments was challenging.
  • “A pattern...can act as its own kind of fingerprint...you just have to be looking in the right places and everywhere Tinley Park police seem to look, the breadcrumbs stopped.” (Main Narrator/Investigator, 02:23)

2. The Northbrook Diversion and Violent Bank Robbery (04:13–17:10)

• Cliff Selley’s Experience: Resident Cliff Selley describes a suspicious encounter with a man in his neighborhood, later realizing he’d crossed paths with an armed bank robber.
  • “He was kind of a big, heavy black guy.” (Cliff Selley, 05:36)
• Police Diversion: A false 911 call about a burglary at Cliff’s house diverted police resources, allowing the real target, a bank, to be robbed.
• The Robbery: Armed suspect escaped with cash and fled in a white vehicle; police chase ensued.
• Dramatic Shootout: Officer Tim Grammons of Skokie Police engaged in a harrowing gunfight with the suspect, narrowly surviving after nearly a minute of exchanged gunfire.
  • “All it out was, he fired 22 rounds at me. I fired 33 rounds at him. And it was like 56 seconds of running gunfight.” (Officer Tim Grammons, 15:50)
• Aftermath: The robber was killed at the scene. He carried disguises, two mobile phones, and had Cliff’s address on a slip of paper.

3. The True Identity of the Offender (17:10–20:44)

• Pseudonyms & Gang Ties: Initially identified as Rodney Moore, fingerprints revealed the assailant was Raymond Maddox—a known Gangster Disciples member with a long, violent rap sheet.
  • “This guy’s pretty much a hardcore gangster disciple. He’s got a significant criminal background...” (Officer Tim Grammons, 20:44)
• Criminal History: Maddox's record included attempted murders, aggravated battery, carjacking, and more.

4. Maddox’s Modus Operandi and Questions About DNA Collection (21:07–30:33)

• Violent Tendencies: Maddox was undeterred by law enforcement, previously vowing to “kill the police officer to get away.”
• Weapon Links: Firearms found with Maddox were ballistically matched to four separate homicides, though not the Lane Bryant case due to caliber mismatch.
• Prior Robbery: Maddox was prime suspect in a similar bank robbery (Nov 2007), implicated by phone evidence and witness reports.
• DNA Database Flaws: Questions arise about whether Maddox’s DNA was ever properly entered into state/federal databases due to a 2000s Illinois felon DNA collection scandal.
  • “I’m not sure the Illinois prison system has ever known what felons’ DNA was collected or when.” (Main Narrator/Investigator, 29:03)

5. Similarities to Lane Bryant Suspect (33:41–34:09)

• Physical Resemblance: Maddox’s booking photo closely matches the Lane Bryant sketch except for hairstyle; speculation that suspect's cornrows may have been a disguise.
  • “The hair can be changed. By this point, we're six weeks out. He can be completely shaved head now.” (Cliff Selley, 33:59)

6. Interview With Maddox’s Son (34:42–39:39)

• Silence and Protection: Family and associates are unwilling to talk about Maddox’s criminal activities due to loyalty or risk.
  • “It’s just too much liability for no reward... Like, live and let live?” (Raymond Maddox’s Son, 37:47; 39:01)
• Motives: Maddox was seen by those close to him as a provider, distributing his stolen gains to family and friends.

7. Reaction of Law Enforcement to New Leads (40:08–42:17)

• Surprise and Recognition: Officers in suburbs near Tinley Park were unaware of the Maddox/Lane Bryant connection before Delia’s investigation.
  • “When you sent me the composite of the Lane Bryant case, and you compare that to Maddox, you’re like, wow, that’s really close.” (Officer Tim Grammons, 40:47)
• Unopened Evidence: Maddox’s blood and clothing, as well as two burner phones, remain unexamined in police storage.

8. The Case for Re-examining Maddox as a Person of Interest (43:01–47:25)

• Overlooked Opportunities: Phones weren’t forensically analyzed, possible DNA sample in medical examiner’s office, and paternity confirms tissue in storage.
• Gang Theory: Lane Bryant detectives reportedly inquired about Gangster Disciples as suspects.
  • “When Tinley Park detectives interrogated Stewart, they let it slip that they were also looking into a man who was affiliated with a gang...the Gangster Disciples.” (Main Narrator/Investigator, 45:45)
• Host’s Stance: Delia does not accuse Maddox outright but insists he should be formally considered and eliminated as a suspect.

9. Frustration Over Police Follow-up (49:04–50:58)

• Lack of Response: Despite sharing evidence and investigative findings, the host hasn’t received acknowledgment from the Tinley Park Police Department (TPPD).
• Community’s Need for Closure: The host and law enforcement sources express bafflement over the stagnant case.
  • “They have so much evidence. How is there no movement? Why is there such a minimal amount of caring? You should care about your town.” (Officer Tim Grammons, 50:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Patterns & DNA System Flaws
  “I’m not sure the Illinois prison system has ever known what felons’ DNA was collected or when.”
  (Main Narrator/Investigator, 29:03)

• On Surviving the Shootout
  “All it out was, he fired 22 rounds at me. I fired 33 rounds at him. And it was like 56 seconds of running gunfight.”
  (Officer Tim Grammons, 15:50)

• On Maddox’s Relentlessness & Lack of Fear
  “When you look at his criminal arrest record, it’s nonstop... There was no level of fear of apprehension from law enforcement...He had told all his friends he was gonna...just kill the police officer to get away.”
  (Officer Tim Grammons, 22:20)

• On Community Code of Silence
  “It’s just too much liability for no reward... Like, live and let live?”
  (Raymond Maddox’s Son, 37:47)

• Linking Maddox to Lane Bryant
  “If you have a close composite, you’ve got criminal behavior...knowing that he lived in the area...I would definitely want to take a look at that person.”
  (Officer Tim Grammons, 41:56)

• On the Importance of Pursuing Maddox’s Link
  “If it is Maddox—wow, you’ve got incredible background and leads for law enforcement...If it’s not Maddox, okay, great. Then you have a plug and play to...It’s definitely worth taking a look.”
  (Officer Tim Grammons, 48:02)

• Host’s Frustration with Police Silence
  “But an email back acknowledging they’ve received my information would at least be nice.”
  (Main Narrator/Investigator, 49:04)

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Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:31: Law enforcement’s initial pursuit of criminal patterns
• 04:13–07:46: Cliff Selley’s account and the staged 911 diversion
• 08:04–13:45: The bank robbery, pursuit, and shootout with Officer Tim Grammons
• 17:10–21:07: Identification of the suspect as Raymond Maddox and discovery of his gang ties
• 30:33–34:09: Comparing Maddox to Lane Bryant suspect sketch; speculation about disguise
• 34:42–39:39: Revealing and protective interview with Maddox’s son
• 40:08–42:17: Law enforcement’s reaction to new information
• 43:01–45:31: Evidence storage, unexamined phones, ongoing questions
• 46:14–47:25: Gang angle and the need to re-examine Maddox as a suspect
• 48:02–50:58: Host's outreach to police, community frustration, and preparations for the season finale

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Episode Tone & Reflection

Delia’s tone is methodical, persistent, and empathetic, balancing hard investigative journalism with genuine concern for the victims’ families and community. The episode is marked by her frustration at official inaction, her determination to pursue overlooked leads, and a sense of responsibility to present evidence that could revive a cold case.

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Final Thoughts

“A History of Violence” shines a light on the failures and complexities of large-scale criminal investigations, especially where systemic gaps (like incomplete DNA collection) and interdepartmental communication break down. Delia D’Ambra’s work underscores the importance of dogged reporting and the need for both police and communities to remain vigilant—and responsive—if justice is ever to be achieved for the Lane Bryant victims.

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To be continued in the season finale, Episode 8: "18 Years"

Transcript

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[Ashley Flowers]

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie. Wherever you listen to podcasts, this is

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

episode seven A History of Violence. A quick note if, while listening to this season you recognize any of the names or locations that are being discussed and have information you'd like to share, send me an [e-mail]. In the months after the Lane Bryant murders. So some members of law enforcement working the case suspected the killer wasn't a one time offender. And it was this assumption that former Tinley Park Mayor Ed Zabracki remembers pushed detectives to spend a lot of time studying crimes that happened in the south suburbs, crimes that investigators thought had similarities with the Lane Bryant massacre.

[Cliff Selley]

They were looking for connections to see if this was a pattern or something.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

A pattern in criminal activity can act as its own kind of fingerprint. In cases where, for example, forensic evidence is leading nowhere or an eyewitness sighting is challenging, sometimes a recurring theme becomes the breadcrumbs. You just have to be looking in the right places and everywhere Tinley park police seem to look, the breadcrumbs stopped.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

To my knowledge, they never established any kind of pattern.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

But like I told you in the last episode, I'm not so sure. Tinley park got dealt a fair hand in the suspect elimination department. The whole early 2000s felon DNA scandal in Illinois likely hurt the agency's chances of ever having a pure pool of known offenders to compare their case evidence to. Also, Tinley park is a very small police jurisdiction in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country, and there are literally hundreds of other suburban police departments. So coordinating with all those agencies to explore whether the Lane Bryant murders were part of a greater pattern in such a busy area would have been difficult to do, maybe even impossible, especially with every week and month that passed in my investigation, I've had the benefit of hindsight and the added benefit of being outside of the Lane Bryant war room, meaning when I look for patterns, I doing so for the first time. And over the past few months of reporting, I found something intriguing, something that's now in the hands of the lead detective on the Lane Bryant case and the FBI. To explain how I got to this point, though, I have to show you where it all started. Because like all patterns, this particular avenue of investigation revealed itself one facetime at a time. Did anybody talk to you about this?

[Cliff Selley]

No.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Was it weird to you that I came up in your driveway?

[Cliff Selley]

It was weird, but when you said it, I'm like, I bet it's that big thing.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

It's so crazy. That's Cliff Selley, a longtime resident of Northbrook, Illinois, a suburb near Chicago about an hour north of Tinley park. In mid August 2008, Cliff noticed something unusual in his cul de sac.

[Cliff Selley]

I was at home doing some stuff. My mom was out running errands. I saw this guy going around the houses, kind of dressed, you know, shabbily. He kind of had, like, long boxer shorts on, I think, and then a long white shirt that kind of untucked, hanging down. And his girlfriend was kind of just walking around the cul de sac, and he was going door to door. I was in my backyard, and I think I saw him. And then I was out doing something in the front, and he came up and he's like, yo, I saw you in your backyard. Are you enjoying the pool? And I'm like, ow. I'm like, I don't live here. You know, I'm just watching the house for a little bit.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

So you lied to him.

[Cliff Selley]

So I lied.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Yeah.

[Cliff Selley]

I said, I don't want to. I'm not signing up for any magazines. I'm like, no, you know, I'm just keeping an eye on the house. I don't live here. So he's like, oh, all right. And then he gave me a spiel about the magazines. I'm like, yeah, I'm not interested. So then he left.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

As the stranger and woman walked away, Cliff sensed something wasn't right. What kind of vehicle were they driving?

[Cliff Selley]

He was just walking. He didn't have a car.

[Interviewer]

When you saw him, did you notice

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

anything else about his appearance?

[Cliff Selley]

He was kind of a big, heavy black guy.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Once the guy left, Cliff put the interaction out of his mind. But a few days later, on August 25, for the second time in less than a week, Cliff again noticed something unusual on his street. But this time, it was far more intense.

[Cliff Selley]

I see my mom. She had been out, and she comes and pulls into the garage, and while she does that, she's in there reading the mail or whatever, just sitting in the car. And all of a sudden, I see the police come, like, filling the neighborhood and coming up my driveway. And I meet him in the front, and he's like, we have a reported burglary going on at your house here. I'm like, I've been here. There's nobody here. And they've got the street blocked off, and the Northbrook police are swarming the house. And I'm like, well, there's. You know, I've been here. There's nobody Tried to break in

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

completely. Unbeknownst to Cliff, minutes before Northbrook police officers descended on his home, an unknown man had placed this 911 call.

[911 Operator]

911, where's your emergency?

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

Northbrook.

[911 Operator]

Okay, what's going on?

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

There's some guys standing in the back of my lady's friend's house, and I don't know them, and they're doing something to our door.

[911 Operator]

Okay, hold on a moment. Okay. And they're standing outside your home?

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

No, my neighbor. They're. They're behind her house.

[911 Operator]

Okay, do you know what her address is? That's her address. Okay.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

She's next to me.

[911 Operator]

There's men standing outside the guy. The lady's house doing something.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

They're in the rear. They're behind the house?

[911 Operator]

Yeah. Okay. What do they look like, sir? Tall.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

They have on dark clothes.

[911 Operator]

Okay, there's. How many? Three. Two. Two. Two people?

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

Yes.

[911 Operator]

Okay.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Of course, there was no burglary in progress at Cliff's home. As the 911 caller had stated, it was a hoax.

[Cliff Selley]

The police are coming, going through my house, and all of a sudden they got the call, and they're like, it's a diversion.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

A diversion so that Northbrook PD would be delayed in responding to an actual crime taking place six minutes down the road at a fifth third bay

[911 Operator]

nine one one where's your emergency? We just had a robbery. I did, I did. 240 Skokie. Okay. Yes, Sussex on foot. He's heading northbound on Skokie Boulevard. He's running. He's running north. Found on Skokie. Yes. He. White shirt. White shirt. White tennis shoes. White tennis shoes. What color is. He had a gun. A black male. He had a black male. He has a white car. White car running. There's a white car.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The robber, who is in his 20s or 30s and still stood about 6ft tall, had entered the bank wearing a bandana gloves and aviator sunglasses. And he'd menaced the staff with a silver gun before packing one of two duffel bags he brought with him full of cash. After getting the money, he fled in a white vehicle.

[911 Operator]

Did anybody get any part of a white number? He. He was parked in the parking lot across the street from this. From us. Okay. Not like right next to us. Okay. North Brooklyn. Okay. He went towards north for court. Yes, by the Starbucks. Okay. All right, hold on. I'm gonna transfer or I'm gonna call Highland Park. Can you stay on the phone with me? Yes, please. Okay. He left one of his bags behind. He did leave one of the bags behind? Yes. He had two bags and he left one of them. He did leave one of them behind. Okay.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Law enforcement's response to the bank robbery was swift, but not swift enough. Since most of Northbrook's force had gone to Cliff Selley's home. Not knowing the burglary call to his address was bogus, the bank robber managed to slip away. He maneuvered out of the busy shopping plaza where the bank was located, right by big box stores, clothing boutiques and fast food chains, and on to nearby Interstate 94, where he blended into the start of rush hour traffic, or so he thought.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

Wanted is the mail. Black and a white vehicle, handgun was displayed.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

An officer named Tim Grammons, who was on duty for Skokie Police Department, a neighboring jurisdiction, heard the bank robbery call come over his radio, and acting on a hunch, he floored it towards i94.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

That's where I said to myself, I'm heading over to the expressway. I'm going to go over there and go look for and, you know, try and catch this bank robber. I pulled up right behind and then alongside another white vehicle. And I took a look at the driver. He was obviously matched the suspect description. And then he kind of gave me that look back, like, oh, my God, there's the police look. So when I looked over and just the facial, you know, Expressions and response looked back. I was like, oh, okay, here we go. So then I slid behind him and started running this license plate information. And while I was doing that, he started accelerating, you know, 85, 90 miles per hour. So he accelerated, got into the left lane. I started getting on the radio saying, hey, I've got one running from me.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

306, I got one going from me. Southbound on Skosi Boulevard, after the suspect

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

crossed four lanes of traffic in one move and beelined for an exit ramp, Tim knew it was on.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

The way he was driving. It's like, okay, this for sure is indicative. Plus all the information that we see had from the inspiration radio that this is a bank robber just did an armed robbery.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

To say the sense of urgency was high is kind of an understatement, especially because where the suspect got off the expressway, dumped right into a residential neighborhood in the suburb of Lincolnwood.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

He's pulling it here because he wants to try and run, right? Like, either by driving or run. I thought he was going to get where you're going to get into a foot chase, because once you get into resonance, this is a lot easier to go hide. When we were first coming down the street, we had a, you know, kid out there on a skateboard. So that kid obviously went running away when we came zipping down the street.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The lights and sirens from Tim's squad car and the roar of the suspect's engine were quite an unusual sight on the residential street. But what came next, not even Tim saw coming.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

You know, when I saw the door open, I'm like, okay, here, here we go. We're going to get in a foot chase. But immediately when I saw the door open with his right hand, I saw his right hand swinging up with this, you know, silver, you know, gun, handgun in his hand. So I saw the gun coming up over his door as he was swinging his right arm around. And then that's immediately where I'm like, oh, okay, here we go. You know, it's going to be a gunfight.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The next few moments of his life were a blur of gunfire, frenzied movements, and busted glass.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

His first four rounds, he got off before I could do, you know, anything, not that I wasn't doing something. What I was doing was putting my car in park, you know, unbuckling my seat belt, drawing out my service weapon. But those first four rounds, where he got off those first four rounds before I was, you know, able to engage him. Once I was able to start engaging him through the windshield, you know, things started to be A little bit more equal or comforting to me to know that, hey, okay, so now I'm up in the fight with this guy, and, you know, at least I've got a lot better chance.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Both men emptied their firearms at one another in very close proximity, but miraculously, Tim wasn't hit.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

His final shot was right through my driver side door window. Thankfully, the bullet, like, literally went right behind my back and into my driver's seat. Thank God he ran empty. When he was right at my driver's side window, I was able to get out of my car because he was running back to his car. I thought originally he was running away, but in essence, what he was doing was going back to his car to grab another gun. When I got out, I got on the radio, just yelled out, shots fired.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

It only took a few seconds for the assailant to arm himself with a new handgun and start shooting at Tim again.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

When he came out with a second gun, I think he still thought I was back in my squad car. I don't think he realized I'd gotten out of my squad car and over to his passenger side. So he starts looking for me over there. Well, I'd been, you know, off to his side. He didn't know I was there. So I actually advanced on him and started shooting at him.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

In the chaos of the moment, there was no time for Tim to relay his status to his colleagues, so confusion about if he was dead or alive flooded. Emergency radios.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

Is anybody with 306, Officer Gramans. 306, where are you?

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

306, Officer Gramans, Lincolnwood units.

[911 Operator]

I got a shooting of a police officer down. Shot in the head.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

Moves this way. Man down. Officer. Not an officer. Not an officer, Not a man down.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

To add to the confusion, residents who lived right where the shootout was happening had dialed 911 and were reporting what was going on in real time.

[911 Operator]

Shoot him, man.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

Kill him. Lock the door, quick.

[911 Operator]

Where are you at, sir? Hey, we got a cop man shot out in front of my house. Where? At Spokat in Lincolnwood. Major shootout. Stay on the line. I'm transferring to the fire department. Go ahead. Stay on the. Stay on the line. I'm transferring. Oh, my God. I want to go and see if he's all right.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

On the 911 call to Linkwood, you can actually hear all the rounds going off in the background. The caller, he came out and was like, hey, are you all right? You all right? You can hear them yelling, dude, you all right?

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

To Tim's own astonishment, he was all right. Despite exchanging A hail of gunfire with the suspect as they dipped and dodged around his squad car, using it as cover. The robber, on the other hand, had not fared so well. He'd collapsed dead in the street after sustaining 15 gunshot wounds to his head, chest, abdomen, hands, and arms.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

All it out was, he fired 22 rounds at me. I fired 33 rounds at him. And it was like 56 seconds of running gunfight. That wasn't my decision that that happened. It was his choice. He chose that path, and it wasn't a good choice. The way I kind of look at it is, do I seek any comfort in it? No. I know that I did my job, and I did it professionally, and I did it well, and those are the results of, you know, his decision.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

But who was the man who'd put up such a violent fight? Why had he gone to such extreme lengths to avoid being arrested? And how in the world did Cliff Selley's house get mixed up in all this? And for me, another question. Did this connect to the Lane Bryant murders in any way? The answers to some of those questions came rather quickly. In the suspect's vehicle, authorities found the disguise he'd worn in the Fifth Third bank, along with a duffel bag full of cash, two mobile phones that had their batteries removed, and a piece of paper with two addresses written down on it. One of the addresses was marked through with a black pen, but the other was still visible. It was Cliff Selley's home. And that discovery made everything suddenly click. The stranger who'd approached Cliff's driveway days

[Cliff Selley]

earlier, he's like, yo, I saw you in your backyard. I'm like, I don't live here. You know, I'm just watching the house for a little bit.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The hoax 911 caller.

[911 Caller/Dispatcher]

There's some guys standing in the back of my lady's friend's house, and I don't know them, and they're doing something to our door.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Okay, the dead bank robber, they were all one and the same.

[Cliff Selley]

I have a good friend who was in the Chicago Police Department who looked it up and sent me the picture of the guy. And I'm like, yeah, that's him. That's the guy that was lurking around the neighborhood when he thought that I didn't live there and that I was just looking in on the house. It all made sense. It all made sense because it was weird to have him tell me what I was doing, that he had been watching me in the backyard of our house from the. You know, I'm at the end of the cul. De sac. So it's not an easy angle from the neighbor's house to see back there. So he had somehow been keeping an eye and looking around, trying to, I think, find, you know, a diversion house to call in something at.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The perpetrator's ruse had nearly worked, if not for Officer Tim Grammons playing a hunch. So who was the guy who'd engineered this whole thing? Well, when authorities searched the offender's person, they found a wallet with an Indiana driver's license inside that had a Merrillville address next to the name Rodney Moore. Which was odd, because the vehicle the offender had been driving came back as belonging to a Chicago resident named Russell Cosby. Even more puzzling, the.380 caliber handgun and the 9 millimeter pistol the suspect had used to shoot at Tim Gramman's weren't registered to Rodney Moore or Russell Cosby. The guns belonged to people who were from out of state. And even more bizarre, an SKS automatic rifle tucked inside a cardboard box in the suspect's car also wasn't his or associated with any of the other names authorities were looking at. So investigators entered Rodney's name into their database and discovered he had a criminal history in Illinois, as well as fingerprints on file with the FBI and state police. But confoundingly, a few hours after sending fresh impressions of the deceased suspect's fingerprints to the feds to verify that he was Rodney Moore, agents called back with an unexpected development. The fingerprints from the dead man at their crime scene were not a match for Rodney Moore.

[Brandi Churchwell]

In the world of true crime, the real story isn't always in the headlines. It's in the evidence. I'm Brandi Churchwell, host of 13th Juror podcast, and I'm here to take you past the news cycle and straight into the courtroom. Every week, I'll break down the investigation, the prosecution, the defense, and everything that unfolds beyond the jury box. We'll examine every testimony, every exhibit, and every hidden motive. Listen to 13th Juror wherever you get your podcasts.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The prints given to the FBI actually belonged to a 37 year old convicted felon from Flossmoor, Illinois, named Raymond Maddox. Turns out Raymond was a documented member of the Gangster Disciples street gang who sometimes used the alias Rodney Moore, among other assumed names. The real Rodney Moore was also a convicted felon, but just a completely different person than Raymond.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

This guy's pretty much a hardcore gangster disciple. He's got a significant criminal background. That type of thing just shows he also had the connections to get those IDs he was able and connected to get those things. And that's where the gang, you know, affiliation can come into play, where, hey, you know, they're going to help each other out. The gang members help each other out with providing those things and having those, you know, resources and sources to get that done.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Raymond also had a lengthy criminal history in Cook county dating back to the early 1990s, which included convictions for two different attempted murders, aggravated battery and carjacking. He'd been arrested more than 20 times for everything from drug related offenses, domestic battery, traffic violations, and even impersonating a police officer. In 1998, he'd been sentenced to 18 years in prison for an attempted murder charge, but was released early in 2004 after serving about six years behind bars. After that, he went on probation for a little bit, but then in early November 2007, he stopped being monitored by the Department of Corrections entirely, according to a source I interviewed who knew Raymond well in 2007 and 2008, but who I'm not naming for their own protection. After he got his freedom back, he lived a duplicitous lifestyle. He portrayed to some folks that he was a factory worker, family man, and community provider, when in reality, he'd resumed an active role with the Gangster Disciples organization. And from what was later revealed to Tim Gramans, he had no intention of ever going back to prison.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

When you look at his criminal arrest record, it's nonstop. You know, that's really indicative of I'm not slowing down. You know, there was no level of fear of apprehension from law enforcement, no level of fear of, you know, I'm going to go to jail. Those things just didn't exist with him. He had told all his friends he was gonna, if he was ever stopped by the police, he was just gonna kill the police officer to get away. There was no hesitation in him trying to kill him. And if you're willing to try and kill a police officer, you're definitely not afraid of not killing a non police officer, right? Like, so there's no doubt in my mind.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

In the aftermath of the officer involved shooting, a Public Integrity Task force led by the Illinois State Police conducted an investigation into Raymond's death and eventually cleared Officer Tim Gramans of any wrongdoing. But the mountain of alleged criminal activity, the ISP probe circumstantially linked to Raymond, was significant.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

The three guns he had, ballistically, they matched those three guns to four different homicides. Now, you know, who knows who did the homicides, but the ballistic match of those weapons that he, you know, was in possession of to four other homicides was also kind of a key discovery.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

You heard him correctly. The three guns Raymond had with him when he was killed were ballistically connected to four separate murders. Now, when those crimes occurred, who the victims were, or if they were ever solved is information I'm not privy to. Neither is Tim. Only the FBI and Illinois State Police know that level of detail, so I can't tell you much more than that. But I know you're probably asking yourself the burning question, could one of those guns have been used in the Lane Bryant murders six months earlier in February? But my answer is, I don't think so. Obviously, I'm not a detective working the Lane Bryant case today. But because none of the guns Raymond had in August 2008 were.40 caliber, which is what police say was used in the Tinley park case. That's why I say I don't think those firearms are related. But that didn't take Raymond off the table for me entirely. And I'll tell you why. In addition to having guns that had been used in other crimes, Raymond was determined to be the prime suspect in another violent robbery at the same Fifth Third bank in Northbrook. That incident occurred in mid November 2007, just two weeks after his probation was terminated. And by the way, where that bank is located is in an eerily similar type of shopping plaza as Brookside Marketplace. It's got big box stores on one side, smaller stores on the other, and immediate access to an interstate. Police reports from that robbery explain. Raymond entered the bank wearing gloves and a vampire mask which covered the bottom half of his face. He brandished a handgun and remained in the bank for several minutes while threatening staff that he would kill them if they put dye packs in the cash. At various points, he yelled out profanities and specifically barked at female employees for taking too long. He also uttered choppy phrases like, quote, I'm not going to jail, end quote. When he escaped, he made off with nearly $104,000 in cash. About two weeks later, in early December 2007, Northbrook police discovered that an unknown blackmail had called the Fifth Third bank hours before the robbery to ask when the lobby closed for the day. Phone records at the time revealed the number that placed that call belonged to Raymond. And not only that, when detectives subpoenaed his cell phone records, they could place his phone near the bank at the time of the robbery as well as the day before. They also discovered evidence that a fellow female Gangster Disciple member had assisted him in planning the crime. For some reason, though neither she nor Raymond were arrested when Northbrook PD discovered all this information. Instead, Northbrook handed over everything their detectives had collected to the FBI, but nothing happened for months. It wasn't until the end of July 2008, when one month before Raymond robbed the bank again and got an issued out with police, that an FBI agent interviewed him. However, by then, according to the source I'm not naming but who was close with Raymond, he'd been tipped off by his accomplice that the feds were looking at him as a person of interest in the November heist. Police reports explain that Raymond was interviewed about the crime again just two days before he robbed the Fifth Third bank for the second time, but investigators still did not have enough to arrest him. But what's more interesting to me isn't so much what he was doing in the summer of 2008, it's where he was in the months in between the two bank robberies. Look, I've been through this a few times now, and learning a new language always feels super daunting. But not all learning methods are created equal. Rosetta Stone is designed to help you learn languages naturally. 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Go to Rosetta Stone.comCounterclock and start learning today. When Raymond Maddox's probation ended in November 2007, he listed his residence as Elm street in Flossmoor, Illinois. And you want to know what happens to be directly two miles west of there Brookside Marketplace. Now, because Illinois had enacted its mandatory all felons DNA law in 2002, when Raymond got out of prison in 2004, his DNA should have been taken. But since that was right in the middle of when tens of thousands of felons were walking out of prison without having samples of their DNA retrieved. It's unclear if, in fact, he did provide a sample. According to what Kara Smith, the former deputy chief of staff for Illinois's Attorney general, told me in her interview, the Department of Corrections was reportedly fully abiding by the 2002 DNA retrieval law. By the end of 2003, IDOC was fully compliant and collecting samples within about nine months of the law taking effect. So they were being collected in 2003, 4, 5, 6, 7, and on. But because I know the magnitude of this felon DNA issue wasn't caught until 2009, it's hard for me to fully take Kara's word as gospel. And it's not because I think she's being dishonest. It's because I know that systems are flawed. I wanted to know for sure whether Raymond's DNA had ever been taken and put into the state and federal DNA database. So I asked the Illinois Department of Corrections to check when the last two facilities he was incarcerated at became fully compliant with Illinois's 2002 felon DNA law. And the response I received was not reassuring. IDOC's Freedom of Information Officer issued me a statement that read, quote, idoc does not maintain or possess records responsive to your requests. End quote. Which only further proves my point that I'm not sure the Illinois prison system has ever known what felon's DNA was collected or when. A rudimentary computer printout of Raymond's criminal history that I found buried in the Skokie Police file for the August 2008 officer involved shooting has the letter Y next to the word DNA underneath Raymond's name. But the paperwork indicates that this action was recorded by a corrections entity in Cook County. And that didn't give me a ton of reassurance, because when the All Felons DNA Law scandal was exposed in 2009, news reports named Cook county as the least compliant jurisdiction in terms of timeliness in actually retrieving felon's DNA. But if Raymond did provide a sample upon his release in 2004, it's awfully peculiar to me that he didn't stop committing crimes after that. Wouldn't he have known he'd be cooked if his DNA showed up at a crime scene? Why then go out and start robbing banks? Something else that's unusual to me is where he went in the winter of 2008. Traffic citations I found for him show that in mid January, he was reportedly residing in Florida Flossmoor. And sometimes Glenwood, which are both suburbs very close to Tinley Park. But then in March 2008, he abruptly moved to Merrillville, Indiana, and assumed the alias Rodney Moore. According to my protected source, he remained active with the Gangster Disciples, but had distanced himself from the south suburbs and Illinois for unapparent reasons. Something else interesting. When I compared Raymond's July 2008 booking photo to the Lane Bryant suspect composite sketch, I noticed striking similarities. Height, weight, complexion, body type, facial features, eye color. The only major difference was that in his booking photo as well as in his Indiana ID photo, which was taken in April 2008, he was donning a shaved head. No cornrows, no beads. My source, who was close with him in 2007 and 2008, told me that he always kept his hair short. However, when he committed crimes in public places, he made sure to go the extra mile to obscure his identity with a disguise of some sort. And that was for sure the case in the two 5th 3rd bank robberies. The first time he wore a Halloween mask that partially covered his face. And the second time, he had on a cap, bandana and sunglasses. As I stewed on this detail about Raymond's approach to his robberies, I couldn't help but recall remarks I'd previously heard regarding the Lane Bryant suspect.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

This guy had his hair in cornrows

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

with a single strand that had four

[Officer Tim Grammons]

green beads hanging over one side of his face.

[Narrator/Promoter]

How do we know that that wasn't a pull on and he was not bald headed and just had a pull on with the braid?

[Cliff Selley]

The hair can be changed. By this point, we're six weeks out.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

He can be completely shaved head. Now, I would say there's a good

[Cliff Selley]

chance that he has attempted to disguise himself.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The Lane Bryant offender wearing a disguise could be one explanation as to why in 18 years the composite sketch of him has now not led to a positive id. And hypothetically, if he was affiliated with a gang, that might also explain why no one in his life turned him in. The only people in Raymond Maddox's orbit who agreed to speak with me for my investigation were my source, whose identity I'm protecting, and one of his sons, who is now an adult. But even he was a bit cagey.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

I'm gonna be honest with you. It's a very sensitive topic around the family in general. It's not something I don't think. I don't think anyone in the family would just come out and be candid with you about.

[Interviewer]

I want you to share what only you would want to share what you would be comfortable with sharing.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

So you're very, you're very articulate, I'll give you that for sure. Are you familiar with quid pro quo?

[Interviewer]

I am.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

What, or if you get the information, how, how you intend to portray it. And like, you know, because I don't want to just be letting out information.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

I explained to him that I was investigating a number of crimes in the suburbs of Chicago that were either linked to his late father or that he was suspected of being connected to. And the son's response was not what I expected to hear.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

Despite all those things that, you know, he's done, his actual purpose was to be the great provider and, you know, a. A source of financial stability for not only the immediate, but just the community. He was a very generous person. No, I mean, albeit that he probably sold drugs or stole that money. What he would immediately do with it was give it to family and friends in abundance.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

During my hour long conversation with the Sun, I never said what crimes I was looking into, but he emphasized that looking into his dad's past two decades ago was not advisable.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

It's not a good subject to investigate or try to push on as far as reopening avenues for some cases to get solved because it's already been almost 20 years and I think 20 years later, these are not the same people. I feel like you have a vigilante mindset and that you want to find purpose in bringing people closure in the form of entertainment. I guess maybe a little bit. I think it's more self righteous than righteous to be trying to go on independent private investigation missions to try to uncover some unsolved crimes that detectives couldn't solve just for the sake of clout or entertainment or to sustainable platforms. To be on a soapbox about what I will say from that as I don't think it's appropriate to reach out to anyone trying to get details about crime, trying to elaborate on, solidify his criminal history or all of that type of stuff. I don't think that'll go down well with anybody.

[Interviewer]

Why wouldn't people want to talk to me about Raymond if he was such a good provider to them?

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

I mean, they probably won't want to speak with you as soon as you mention anything about criminal anything, because it's, it's just too much liability for no reward. Like, there's no, there's no reward for talking to you about potential links or criminal. It just, it's just, it's as backwards. It doesn't make. It's not pragmatic, because why would. Why would we share any kind of criminal stuff to about 20, 20 plus years ago? Like, live and let live?

[Interviewer]

What if some of the people on the receiving end of bad actions are still waiting for answers as to who committed those crimes? Like, doesn't that matter, too?

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

It's important to understand that you have to get your own closure. You can't be living for other people to be trying to settle your closure for you. You have to move forward. If somebody's going to be judging anybody for doing any wrongdoing, it ain't gonna be the courts. It's gonna be God.

[Interviewer]

What I'm hearing from you is that people would not be interested in that because they either were loyal to him, remain loyal to him, or they just don't see a benefit in it.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

Right, exactly. And like I said, you hit his spot on people. Like I said, this is something that I do know that from things that I have been told and things that I do know that I have recollection of, as far as what I've seen, is that with these bank robberies and all these things, selling drugs and stuff, he's seeing a lot of money, and a lot of that money was going to the people around him. So I don't think anybody in his immediate circle would. Who can give you any true details, would share with him.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Well, he was mostly right about that, with one exception. I had found someone who was close with his late father, and they'd shared a lot. I also had a growing number of investigators from Chicago's suburbs who dealt with his dad, but who'd never seen the Lane Bryant suspect sketch side by side with Raymond's mugshot. And when they did, it was like a switch flipped. Here's Tim grins again.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

Okay, so now this is where, honestly, I'm going to have to give you, you know, huge credit. When we first met and you provided me with this information, I mean, my jaw dropped. You got so much information. I was, like, incredibly impressed

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

a couple months ago when I met Tim from for the first time at a Starbucks. He had no idea I was investigating the Lane Bryant homicides. Prior to that moment, he wasn't familiar with the Lane Bryant composite sketch, and according to him, neither were his prior supervisors with Skokie PD or other folks he'd worked with at law enforcement agencies in the northern suburbs.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

When you sent me the composite of the Lane Bryant case, and you compare that to Maddox, you're like, wow, that's really close. I showed the detective from Northbrook, and he Was like, wow, that's really close. Like, other people I've showed that composites were like, oh, my God, that's crazy.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Tim told me that suburban police officers in Skokie and Northbrook weren't paying close attention to the Lane Bryant case in August 2008 because they were dealing with the officer involved shooting incident in their backyard. The quintuple homicide investigation down in Tinley park was six months old by that point. And the news coverage that was out there was mostly focused on how police were looking closely at the store manager, Rhoda McFarland's church, and the congregants who'd moved to Texas.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

I was not thinking of that. And I look back now and I'm like, well, after you showed me it, I'm like, kinda like, wow, that's crazy. Like, I wish I would have thought of it, right? Like I wish I would have thought of, hey, maybe he did the Lane Bryant homicide because of, again, how close stuff is.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The longer Tim and I stayed in touch, though, the more he encouraged me to reach out to Tinley park police with the information I'd compiled about Raymond Maddox.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

If you have a close composite, you've got criminal behavior that would be indicative of someone that obviously, you know, has done armed robberies. Obviously, they're willing to kill someone. They're trying to kill a police officer. The compass is close. I mean, obviously that would be someone that, like, hey, you've got a couple factors where I would definitely want to take a look at that person.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Per police reports, swabs of Raymond's blood and the clothing he was wearing when he was killed are still in storage with Lincolnwood pd. His two cell phones are reportedly still there, too. Both of which, by the way, were burner phones. If by some chance he was one of those felons whose DNA got missed in the early 2000s and he hasn't already been eliminated as a potential suspect, there's a wealth of physical evidence Tinley park police could look at to compare against whatever evidence they have in the Lane Bryant case. I, for one, would like to know if those burner phones Raymond had ever pinged on the cell towers surrounding the lane Bryant. On February 2, 2008, they went through

[Cliff Selley]

over 45,000 phones on those three cell towers. There was also several burner phones involved.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Police reports generated after Raymond was killed explain that neither of his two burner phones were ever digitally analyzed. Both were passcode protected, which prevented authorities from seeing text messages or listening to voicemails. What sort of blew my mind though, is that investigators didn't get warrants to crack into them. They didn't even try to determine where they'd been purchased. The only history retrieved from the devices were logs of the inbound and outbound calls from August 25 and August 24, the day of the bank robbery and the day prior. And of course, I went through that list like a bloodhound and did reverse phone number lookups on every number. Some of them came back to relatives or folks I already knew were in Raymond's life at the time. But there were many other numbers that I simply couldn't determine who they belonged to. Back in 2008, however, ruling Raymond in or out is actually much simpler than pulling old cell records or retrieving a fresh sample of his DNA. You see, I found a paternity suit filed in 2010 by a woman who claimed she'd gotten pregnant by Raymond before his death. In those court filings, it explains that the Cook County Medical Examiner's office had kept a sample of his tissue on file. The judge in the paternity suit ordered that a Cellmark lab in Chicago sequence a DNA profile from that material. Material and compare it to the son of the woman who'd filed the paternity suit in October 2010. The results of that testing came in and confirmed the child was his. But here's what puzzled me. If Raymond's DNA was supposed to have been collected by the criminal justice system way back in 2004 when he got out of prison, then why in 2010 did a judge or order a lab to develop his DNA profile from tissue in storage at the medical examiner's office? Shouldn't his DNA have already been sequenced? The real kicker that made my head spin, though, about Raymond came when I interviewed Stuart Gibbs, Rhoda McFarland's boyfriend. At one point in our interview, when we were discussing Stewart's interrogation with police, he said something that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

[Narrator/Promoter]

When the investigators investigated me, I guess the person that they knew of, the person of interest that they knew of, and they looked at me. We from two different spectrums in the gang culture. I'll put it like that.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

When Tinley park detectives interrogated Stewart, they used his prior affiliation with the four corner hustlers as leverage to pressure him. And during questioning, they let it slip that they were also looking into a man who was affiliated with a gang on the opposite. Opposite end of the gang spectrum as Stewart's former group. When I asked Stewart what gang that would have been he said detectives told him the other person was a member of the Gangster Disciples.

[Narrator/Promoter]

But by that time, I walked away from all of that. Well, they figured like, you know, they thought it was going to be another gang war, possibly, but not so the person that they had of interest. I don't know where the person at. I don't know if they still investigate that person.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Interesting, right? This is the only time I heard anything about Tinley park police considering a Gangster Disciple member as a person of interest in the Lane Bryant murders. Maybe investigators made this detail up while interrogating Stewart, thinking it would pay off, but maybe they didn't. Either way, it sure got my attention, especially in light of everything I'd found out about Raymond Maddox. However, where my journey with him ended for now was with a long, detailed email to the Tinley Park Police Department. I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not suggesting Raymond is the person who committed the Lane Bryant murders. But like Tim Grammons, I feel strongly that he should at least be considered a possible person. Person of interest. I mean, what could it hurt for me?

[Officer Tim Grammons]

Composite alone and behavior. Criminal behavior alone, knowing that he lived in the area. So you have three factors where it's like, hey, let's rule this person out or in as a suspect.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

Raymond was a calculating criminal in his day with well thought out ruses and pre planning. He struck in public shopping centers near interstates, and he had a network of people who would have protected him. He, along with other criminals like him who may have stayed off Tinley Park's radar for a variety of reasons, are in my opinion, worth detectives taking a second look at.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

You've done an incredible amount of work that's important and accurate, you know, for. For two reasons. One, if it is Maddox, wow, you've got incredible background in leads for law enforcement where it's like literally it's a plug and play. Here, take it. This is everything you need. If it's not Maddox, okay, great. Okay. That would be okay too because then you have a plug and play to. It's not Maddox. But yes, it's definitely worth taking a look. And again, there's simple investigative steps where they can say yes or no. And this is where when I say I couldn't believe the amount of information and data you presented to me and having everything you've put together on this and I'm just like, wow, incredible, like incredible investigative work, incredible job digging up these details and facts, but also having in a presentable, logical order, I know you've given them some. And I know you're going to continue to provide to them and hopefully they have time to take a look at it, and I'm hopeful that it'll be solved one way or another.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

But despite my many emails to TPPD providing them with information, they've never responded. Early on in my investigation, the department's current chief, Tom Tilton, told me that his detectives wouldn't be able to discuss the case because it's still open, which I understand and respect. But an email back acknowledging they've received my information would at least be nice. Chief Tilton mentioned during our conversation that his detectives were working on something big in Elaine Bryant case and would have a story to tell soon. But that was over a year ago and what he meant by those words I have no idea. So in the interim, I've passed the information I provided to his department along to the Chicago FBI field office. What happens from here? I'm not sure, but I can tell you one thing. Many loved ones of the Lane Bryant victim and longtime residents of Tinley park are growing weary of waiting for justice.

[Officer Tim Grammons]

They have so much evidence. How is there no movement? Why is there such a minimal amount of caring? You should care about your town and you should care about what happened in your town.

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

Police need to realize that they need to be part of the information ecostream.

[Narrator/Promoter]

They don't know where to go from here.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

If you would have told me this

[Raymond Maddox's Son]

wouldn't have been solved, I wouldn't would never believe it.

[Main Narrator/Investigator]

The final push for answers Next time on the season finale of counterclock, episode 8, 18 years listen right now,

[Kylie Lowe]

Every case file, interview and archive tells a piece of the truth. I'm Kylie Lowe and on my podcast Dark down east, original reporting is at the heart of every case I cover. I don't just retell crime stories, I investigate them. I'm speaking with families, searching court records and piecing together the facts that have been overlooked and forgotten.

[Brandi Churchwell]

Time.

[Kylie Lowe]

The result? True crime storytelling that digs as deeply into a case as you do. You can listen to Dark down east wherever you get your podcasts.