CounterClock Episode 3: Juveniles
Hosted by audiochuck
Release Date: November 15, 2024

Introduction: Revisiting a Decade-Old Mystery

In Episode 3 of CounterClock, investigative journalist Delia D'Ambra delves into the perplexing case of Mr. Jones, a decades-old homicide that has long remained unsolved. This episode, titled "Juveniles," explores the involvement of five teenagers in Mr. Jones's murder and examines the complexities surrounding their interrogations and confessions.

The Unfolding Investigation

Initial Leads and Unexpected Sources

The investigation into Mr. Jones's murder had stalled four days in without a prime suspect. A breakthrough came when Arlene Tolliver, a mother from Southside Winston Salem, contacted the police about her 15-year-old son, Jamal Toliver.

[02:20] Chuck Byram: "I got a phone call from a mother who said that her son wasn't acting right as a result."

Detaining Jamal Toliver

Jamal, residing just six blocks from Mr. Jones's residence, was apprehended by detectives and taken downtown for questioning. Upon arrival, Jamal found himself in an interrogation room facing unfamiliar homicide detectives.

[03:21] Chuck Byram: "Everything happened so fast. All I remember is being questioned."

Interrogations and Emerging Suspicions

Family Insights

Interviewing Jamal's siblings revealed signs of his unusual behavior in the days leading up to the murder. Yolanda and Thayers Toliver provided critical observations, prompting detectives to suspect Jamal and his friend group.

[04:00] Narrator: Yolanda noted Jamal's altered behavior over the weekend, while Thayers suggested Jamal might possess knowledge about the murder due to his early bedtime on Friday night.

Expanding the Suspect List

Detectives identified Jamal's friends—Darrell Brayboy, Christopher Bryant, Nathaniel Cawthon, and Nathaniel's younger brother, Rayshawn Banner—as potential suspects. Subsequent arrests were made, except for Darrell, who was temporarily unavailable due to his mother's surgery.

[04:40] Chuck Byram: "They saw me, but when they saw my little brother, they beelined straight to him."

Policing Tactics and Controversial Interrogations

Rayshawn Banner's Detention

Rayshawn, the youngest at 14, faced aggressive questioning without a warrant, leading to a tense standoff at his home. Despite his resistance, Rayshawn was eventually arrested after a heated confrontation.

[17:28] Chuck Byram: "So my mom was like, nah, you need to go. I'm not trusting them... I threw my hands off."

Discrepancies in Police Reports

A critical point of contention emerged regarding the initial call from Arlene Tolliver. While Chuck Byram claims to have taken the call, police reports attribute it to Detective David Rose, who documented Arlene expressing concerns about Jamal's potential involvement.

[22:58] Narrator: "In police reports, a detective named David Rose claimed he talked on the phone with her... Chuck Byram told me he was the one who spoke with her, not David Rose."

Jessica Black's Involvement

Jessica Black's Testimony

Jessica Black, a 16-year-old white girl who frequented the Southside area despite her grandmother's disapproval, became a pivotal figure in the case. She provided a confession detailing the group's intent and actions on the night of the murder.

[13:48] Chuck Byram: "Wanting to be funny, you know, if we jacked somebody and took that money... they were laughing about jacking."

Contradictions and Altered Statements

Initially denying any involvement, Jessica's demeanor shifted after hours of intense interrogation, leading her to implicate her friends in Mr. Jones's murder.

[34:02] Jessica Black: "At first, I didn't know what they were going to do... I knew what they had done."

Pressure and Coercion: The Juveniles' Confessions

Jamal Toliver's Interrogation

Jamal endured prolonged questioning without a recorded account of his initial denials. Detectives employed aggressive tactics, including threats of severe punishment, to elicit a confession.

[27:16] Chuck Byram: "They kept threatening me with lethal injection. I didn't know someone my age could get the death penalty."

Nathaniel Cawthon's Stance

Nathaniel consistently maintained his innocence, even as police intensified their interrogation methods. His mother, Teresa Banner, was present during part of his questioning, witnessing his emotional distress.

[28:24] Nathaniel Cawthon: "I ain't killed no fucking body. I ain't had nothing to do with nobody being killed."

Christopher Bryant and Darrell Brayboy's Admissions

Both Christopher and Darrell confessed to roles in the assault and attempted robbery, aligning their statements with Jessica's testimony.

[32:05] Chuck Byram: "I wasn't there. I don't know what you want me to do. I wasn't there."

Community Reaction and Skepticism

Shock from the Community

The revelation that young teenagers were implicated in the murder shocked the local community, including Calvin Scriven, a high school basketball star, who expressed disbelief.

[35:09] Chuck Byram: "It surprised me a lot. They were so young."

Questions About the Investigation's Integrity

Discrepancies in police reports and the lack of recorded initial interactions raised concerns about the validity of the confessions and the overall investigation process.

[24:20] Narrator: "Whether Arlene said anything Detective Rose claims she did has been hotly debated for years."

Concluding Thoughts and Ongoing Questions

Incomplete Narratives

Despite the teens’ confessions, lingering questions about the interrogation methods, absence of recorded denials, and conflicting reports obscure the true circumstances leading to the confessions.

Teasing the Next Episode

The episode concludes by highlighting the upcoming court proceedings and the continued mystery surrounding Jessica Black's role.

[35:41] Chuck Byram: "Jessica should have been in prison as well, but she was pulled away and made the star witness."

Final Reflections

Episode 3 of CounterClock sheds light on a controversial case involving juvenile suspects in a violent murder. Through Delia D'Ambra's investigative lens, listeners are invited to question the methods used by law enforcement and the reliability of the confessions obtained from these young individuals. As the story progresses, the episode sets the stage for deeper exploration into the legal battles and the quest for justice in subsequent episodes.

Stay tuned for Episode 4: "Jessica" as Delia continues to unravel the complexities of the Mr. Jones case.